See how more then one sum number can come from the same group, the odds of this happening are.

All five groups different roughly 36% Two groups the same the rest different roughly 50% Two and two groups the same rest different roughly 10% Three groups the same rest different roughly 4% Three groups and two groups the same roughly .5% Four groups the same and one other roughly .1%

The following wheel guarantees a 3# prize when one winning number is in each group of four numbers. As only 5 groups or 20 numbers can contain winning numbers 20 numbers must be played. The wheel uses 16 combinations. Compare to a 4if5 wheel with the same conditions requires 64 combinations; a 3if5 allowing 0,1 or 2 from each group requires 64 combinations and a standard abbreviated 3if5of20 wheel requires 32 combinations.

A quick survey of my software finds only Lotto Buster capable of accepting a 5/9 lottery with duplicate numbers drawn. If you have a more capable predictor that accepts the same please post a reply.

See how more then one sum number can come from the same group, the odds of this happening are.

All five groups different roughly 36% Two groups the same the rest different roughly 50% Two and two groups the same rest different roughly 10% Three groups the same rest different roughly 4% Three groups and two groups the same roughly .5% Four groups the same and one other roughly .1%

The following wheel guarantees a 3# prize when one winning number is in each group of four numbers. As only 5 groups or 20 numbers can contain winning numbers 20 numbers must be played. The wheel uses 16 combinations. Compare to a 4if5 wheel with the same conditions requires 64 combinations; a 3if5 allowing 0,1 or 2 from each group requires 64 combinations and a standard abbreviated 3if5of20 wheel requires 32 combinations.

A quick survey of my software finds only Lotto Buster capable of accepting a 5/9 lottery with duplicate numbers drawn. If you have a more capable predictor that accepts the same please post a reply.

BobP

I like this idea, do you have a 4if5? Thanks for sharing, I tried something similar, but I was converting the digits to VTRACS. That got nasty, trying to keep them straight.

Dump Water Florida United States Member #380 June 5, 2002 3112 Posts Offline

Posted: January 16, 2008, 12:28 am - IP Logged

Quote: Originally posted by CARBOB on January 15, 2008

I like this idea, do you have a 4if5? Thanks for sharing, I tried something similar, but I was converting the digits to VTRACS. That got nasty, trying to keep them straight.

4 if 5 of 20 numbers if one from each of five groups of four numbers.

Sunny California United States Member #40295 May 31, 2006 7713 Posts Offline

Posted: January 16, 2008, 9:37 am - IP Logged

Thanks,BobP,for this info. Think I've seen the numbers reduced like this before and called the Delta numbers,is that correct? I have another question,if you don't mind. How did you set up these groups here? Any particular way you figured them out? Thanks very much!

ORLANDO, FLORIDA United States Member #4924 June 3, 2004 5961 Posts Offline

Posted: January 16, 2008, 9:46 am - IP Logged

Quote: Originally posted by lottolaughs on January 16, 2008

Thanks,BobP,for this info. Think I've seen the numbers reduced like this before and called the Delta numbers,is that correct? I have another question,if you don't mind. How did you set up these groups here? Any particular way you figured them out? Thanks very much!

Dump Water Florida United States Member #380 June 5, 2002 3112 Posts Offline

Posted: January 17, 2008, 2:35 am - IP Logged

Quote: Originally posted by lottolaughs on January 16, 2008

Thanks,BobP,for this info. Think I've seen the numbers reduced like this before and called the Delta numbers,is that correct? I have another question,if you don't mind. How did you set up these groups here? Any particular way you figured them out? Thanks very much!

If someone is calling these Delta Numbers I wouldn't be surprised. The Delta Number web site that sells software that makes the conversion for you say's there are 15 delta numbers based on the gaps between numbers. As does this article on Lotto-Logix.

I thought I explained it all in the first post in this thread, that's the trouble when you don't have to explain it to yourself. I add the digits of the numbers together, the groups are based on the numbers they add up to. So it's like a code that works backward and forward. 33 is 3+3 = 6 so 33 is in group #6, if you think group #6 will be drawn next you play the four numbers in group #6. When you've picked five groups for the next draw out of the nine possible groups you have 20 numbers to wheel. Gives a pretty good distribution of low to high and odd to even with different last digits. BobP

Kentucky United States Member #32652 February 14, 2006 7341 Posts Offline

Posted: January 17, 2008, 5:17 pm - IP Logged

Quote: Originally posted by Omniscient on January 17, 2008

Looks like its just adding a 9 to the starting number each time.

He is putting the 36 numbers into groups of 4 based on their "root number". To get the root number you add the two digits. With the numbers 1 through 9, the root number is the same. The number 10 is 1 + 0 so its root is 1. The number 29 is 2 + 9 = 11 and 1 + 1 = 2 so the root number is 2. Last night's Fantasy 5 numbers were 2-6-8-11-19 and the root numbers would look like 2-6-8-2-1.

These nine groups of four numbers can be used with BobP's 20 number 64 combination conditional 4if5 wheel. Had somebody used the root groups 1-2-4-6-8 in his wheel last night, they would have matched 4 of the numbers, and even though they didn't meet the 4if5 conditions, they still could have hit 4 out of 5 and some 3 out of 5 and 2 out of 5 hits.

Delta numbers are the difference between numbers starting with the lowest number drawn.

Dump Water Florida United States Member #380 June 5, 2002 3112 Posts Offline

Posted: January 18, 2008, 12:54 am - IP Logged

At first glance reduction systems like roots and deltas might seem like playing with numbers nonsense. In reality it gives us another way to look at the numbers, another way to group them.

One thing that jumps out at me with most lottery games is the nasty trick of using a total number of numbers that can't be divided by the numbers played. ie: 5/36, 6/49, where a 5/35 or 6/48 game would be much easier on the player. With the system I posted 9 groups of 4 numbers fits the FL 5/36 very nicely.

Either this turns out to be personally helpful or it doesn't, but that's not the point. The point is the information is either useful to you or can be safely discarded. If you haven't tried it, you really can't know for sure.