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Should there be a Federal Gaming Commission?

Yes

[ 8 ]

[ 32.0% ]

[ 17 ]

[ 68.0% ]

Total valid votes

[ 25 ]

Discarded votes

[ 1 ]

JKING

United States
Member #5,599
July 13, 2004
1,207 Posts
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Oct 9, 2008, 9:01 am

Hi,

Do you think State Lotteries should be policed by a Federal gaming Commission?

Do you question if the games are really being operated fairly?

Isn't the amount of money at stake by driving up Lottery jackpots a motive for manipulation.

Is there an abnormal amount of low percentage picks, statistically speaking, happening in your state?

Do any of the states take the space on there websites to show you their security methods to insure fairness?

All comments are welcome. *S*

You are a slave to the choices you have made. jk

Even a blind squirrel will occasionally find an acorn.

There is no elevator to success, you will have to take the stairs.
guesser

United States
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June 16, 2006
1,969 Posts
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Oct 9, 2008, 1:47 pm

Quote: Originally posted by JKING on Oct 9, 2008
Hi,

Do you think State Lotteries should be policed by a Federal gaming Commission?

Do you question if the games are really being operated fairly?

Isn't the amount of money at stake by driving up Lottery jackpots a motive for manipulation.

Is there an abnormal amount of low percentage picks, statistically speaking, happening in your state?

Do any of the states take the space on there websites to show you their security methods to insure fairness?

All comments are welcome. *S*

IMO the last thing this country needs is yet another 'Federal' and 'Commission'.

Throw enough money at anybody, and they will be just as corrupt as anybody - City, County, State, National or Federal.

Evidence is - look at what has happened to our economy when banking lobbyists got the SEC to change just a few 'rules' a couple of years ago, mainly disclosure and declaration rules.

You also did not define what a 'low percentage pick' is, and you didn't tell us what game(s) in particular you speak of.

ALL games are 'low percentage picks', but the deal is: everyone's definition of what a 'low percentage pick' is, is different. If most games were won with 'high percentage picks' (whatever that is...), then my guess is those games would disappear because they would be too predictable. Most of us out here have our own little 'systems' to help us make better numerical choices, so it that means it helps tip the scales for us to make a 'higher percentage guess -er- pick', then exactly what is that ? 1 in 146 million is the PB odds of winning, so if I have a system that cuts my odds in half, that's now 1 in 73 million. I've just doubled my chances of winning, but 1 in 73 mill doesn't look too good to me.

I'd also venture to say most of us here have a GREAT system to help us pick one or two numbers, but there are still four or five other numbers we need to guess lucky on..

Ain't randomness grand ? (as far as Powerball is concerned)
Stack47

Kentucky
United States
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February 14, 2006
10,557 Posts
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Oct 9, 2008, 4:45 pm

Quote: Originally posted by JKING on Oct 9, 2008
Hi,

Do you think State Lotteries should be policed by a Federal gaming Commission?

Do you question if the games are really being operated fairly?

Isn't the amount of money at stake by driving up Lottery jackpots a motive for manipulation.

Is there an abnormal amount of low percentage picks, statistically speaking, happening in your state?

Do any of the states take the space on there websites to show you their security methods to insure fairness?

All comments are welcome. *S*

Some public records like drivers licences are covered under the full faith and credit clause in Article IV of the U.S. Constitution; for instance a valid New York drivers license allows New York residences to legally drive in California. State licenses like hunting or fishing are not covered under Article IV because they are designed to do specific things within that state. A New York hunting or fishing license is not valid in California but a New Yorker can purchase a license in California to hunt or fish in California.

I don't know how Congress could Constitutionally create a Federal gaming commission to oversee state lotteries because Federal regulations are usually for things done interstate and lottery ticket sales and payoffs are confined within each state with a lottery. Mega Millions and Powerball are multi state lotteries but all winning tickets, including the jackpot can only be validated by the state lottery selling the ticket.

"Do you question if the games are really being operated fairly?"

When I buy a lottery ticket, I'm choosing to play by their rules and regulations. If I believed the 50 cent on the dollar payoff is grossly unfair, I'd be stupid to buy a ticket. As long as a large number of people are playing these games and the games are showing a profit, my opinion on fairness is irreverent because nobody is holding a gun to my head and forcing me to buy a lottery ticket.

"Isn't the amount of money at stake by driving up Lottery jackpots a motive for manipulation."

It's a given that more people will buy tickets when the jackpots are higher and that's why multi state lottery games were created. On Tuesday MM's jackpot was $12 million and had all the $14 million tickets sold had different combinations, it only represented about 8% of all the possible combination so the percentages alone means it's more likely the jackpot will grow without any manipulation. When the jackpot was at $196 million and $59 million were sold, it still only 1/3 of all possible combinations.

MM sold over 83 million tickets from September 19 when the jackpot was $12 million until October 3 when the $42 million jackpot was hit, but the cash value actually determines what percentage they "keep" and it's clearly over 50%. With those percentages in their favor, why would they even think about manipulating the game?

"Is there an abnormal amount of low percentage picks, statistically speaking, happening in your state?"

At 7:29 PM tonight I can watch a live pick-3 drawing and see 10 numbered balls from 0 to 9 mixing in one container and two other same sets being mixed in two other containers. If all the balls have an equal chance of reaching the top of the tube in each container when the lever closes, statistically speaking each ball has the same percentage. Some people believe statistics from past drawings somehow have an affect on future drawings. However until it can be proven the balls have memories and take turns, I'll have to rely on the 10% statistic each ball will have tonight, tomorrow night, and in future nights.

Statistically speaking we have overall odds of 1 in 40 of winning any prize playing MM, but that doesn't mean we are guaranteed to win a prize when we buy 40 tickets.

"Do any of the states take the space on there websites to show you their security methods to insure fairness?"

Most state lottery websites show odds and payoffs for all their games and many have live drawing that I can watch and determine if its fair. Do I really need to know all the security methods used for a drawing that certainly looks fair to me?
Coin Toss

Zeta Reticuli Star System
United States
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January 17, 2006
12,638 Posts
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Oct 9, 2008, 6:38 pm

Not sure if there's a Federal Gaming Commmission but read on.

Casino workers must have a gaming card (in Nevada called a Sherriff's card) issued by the state the casino where they work is in. sometimes the casino pays for the background check to get the card, usually they pay and take it out of your paycheck. In the states with river boat casinos, you have to go through the whol process again even if you change jobs and go to another boat in the same state.

People who have had legal problems sometimes can get their records sealed.

When you leave one casino state for another the new state can find out of you have domne something to have your records sealed or not. At that point, they can either figure that if you got the records sealed it wasn't bad enough to bother with, OR, if they get curious, they can say the "magic words" Federal Gaming Task Force and get the records opened.

The police all have codes - if someone requests a a check on an applicant for a gaming card, they can write back and say "no recored", but if they write back on colored paper it means the person has a record but it was sealed.

We had a girl in our casino in Vegas dating a cop and when he first heard that he said it was baloney. The next night he came into ask her who said it, and then wanted to know how that person could possibly know that when he, a cop, didn't (meaning he asked around and it's true).

I don't know if such an entity has anything to do with lotteries, but there is some kind of Federal interest in casinos, it's not just a state by state thing.

In Nevada, people on the gaming coimmission were using the connections they mazde with casino execs to get some pretty sweet casino jobs, so much so that Nevada passed a law that if you serve on the gaming commission and leave you can't take a casino job for two years.

Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any. So many systems, so many theories, so few jackpot winners.

There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.
guesser

United States
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June 16, 2006
1,969 Posts
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Oct 11, 2008, 1:44 am

The only thing I want to see is a 'Commission' to verify games are played according to the rules, and games are paid out according to how they said they would pay out.

What this means is, I'd like to see all Lottery games have the numbers pulled from a machine (not computer-generated) in front of a live, public audience. Powerball does that. Somewhat.

The dumb things that bug me are: have you ever bought a raffle ticket where the main prize is something like a big-screen TV, or a weekend vacation in a city, or tickets to 'the big game' ? I wonder if some of these prizes are really given out... and that's the only kind of 'commission' I want: just someone to verify all prizes are drawn for 'correctly' and that they are actually given away.

But a 'Federal Commission' we don't need.
JKING

United States
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July 13, 2004
1,207 Posts
Offline

Oct 12, 2008, 1:05 pm

Hi,

Just a few comments.

1) "Do you question if the games are really being operated fairly?"

When I buy a lottery ticket, I'm choosing to play by their rules and regulations. If I believed the 50 cent on the dollar payoff is grossly unfair, I'd be stupid to buy a ticket. As long as a large number of people are playing these games and the games are showing a profit, my opinion on fairness is irreverent because nobody is holding a gun to my head and forcing me to buy a lottery ticket.

** And if your picks were always filtered out from winning, it wouldn't matter. After all fairness is irrevelant and there isn't a gun in sight.

** I'm not soliciting a lhuge government institution. Just one that verifies that lotteries are indeed playing by thier rules and regulations and are not biasing winning number selections.

2) "Do any of the states take the space on there websites to show you their security methods to insure fairness?"

Most state lottery websites show odds and payoffs for all their games and many have live drawing that I can watch and determine if its fair. Do I really need to know all the security methods used for a drawing that certainly looks fair to me?

** Payoff charts is not a security method. My security issues are with the computer geneated winning numbers. I'm sure a paragraph on thier websites could cover essential security/fairness methods being used.

** Not everything is as it appears. *S*

You are a slave to the choices you have made. jk

Even a blind squirrel will occasionally find an acorn.

There is no elevator to success, you will have to take the stairs.
Stack47

Kentucky
United States
Member #32,651
February 14, 2006
10,557 Posts
Offline

Oct 12, 2008, 9:13 pm

Quote: Originally posted by JKING on Oct 12, 2008
Hi,

Just a few comments.

1) "Do you question if the games are really being operated fairly?"

When I buy a lottery ticket, I'm choosing to play by their rules and regulations. If I believed the 50 cent on the dollar payoff is grossly unfair, I'd be stupid to buy a ticket. As long as a large number of people are playing these games and the games are showing a profit, my opinion on fairness is irreverent because nobody is holding a gun to my head and forcing me to buy a lottery ticket.

** And if your picks were always filtered out from winning, it wouldn't matter. After all fairness is irrevelant and there isn't a gun in sight.

** I'm not soliciting a lhuge government institution. Just one that verifies that lotteries are indeed playing by thier rules and regulations and are not biasing winning number selections.

2) "Do any of the states take the space on there websites to show you their security methods to insure fairness?"

Most state lottery websites show odds and payoffs for all their games and many have live drawing that I can watch and determine if its fair. Do I really need to know all the security methods used for a drawing that certainly looks fair to me?

** Payoff charts is not a security method. My security issues are with the computer geneated winning numbers. I'm sure a paragraph on thier websites could cover essential security/fairness methods being used.

** Not everything is as it appears. *S*

"And if your picks were always filtered out from winning, it wouldn't matter."

I define random as each number or digit having an equal chance of being drawn so that each combination (whether is was drawn the night before or never drawn) has an equal chance. Now if in fact your state lottery is filtering out some combinations, the drawing is not random so you should take that proof to whoever oversees your state lottery.

"I'm not soliciting a lhuge government institution. Just one that verifies that lotteries are indeed playing by thier rules and regulations and are not biasing winning number selections."

Under most state lottery rules the lottery director decides what is random and what methods are used to ensure random drawings. I know of no state lottery selling tickets outside their state so there is no reason for the Feds to get involved and create a Federal Lottery Commission with no jurisdiction.

"Payoff charts is not a security method."

When I look at a pick-3 or pick-4 game odds and payoff chart I can easily determine my lottery (Ohio) has a fixed payoff and on average should keep about 50 cents for every dollar wagered. I know any player can wager on any combination and it means more will be wagered on some combinations and less on others. If the drawings are random, over time the payoffs when a heavily wagered combination is drawn should balance out with the lighter wagered combination payoffs. If you believe the drawings are fixed so only the lightly wagered combinations are drawn, the payoff to sales ratio should be well under 50%. The Ohio Lottery website does show how much ($370.9 million) was wagered on the Pick-3 in the fiscal year 2007 and that averages out to about $508,000 per drawing.

Just based on the odds and payoff chart the lottery should expect to keep about half or $185,450,000 and I see no reason to risk losing players and volume of play by rigging the drawings.

"My security issues are with the computer geneated winning numbers."

When the Tennessee Lottery went to computer drawings, the RNG was programed for no repeat numbers so for almost a month it was impossible for double, double/double, triple, or quadruple digits to be drawn in its pick-3 and pick-4 games. With live ball drawings we can see the chaotic conditions created to ensure a random draw and it would be much more difficult to rig the outcome for a specific result. The problem with computer drawings is we must rely on the integrity of the lottery's security methods because we only see the results.

"After all fairness is irrevelant and there isn't a gun in sight."

We all can think of a number of methods a computerized drawings could be rigged to benefit the state lottery profits but knowing the methods exist and proving the methods are being used are two different things. If you really want to make a case to your governor or state legislators, start with the payoff to sales ratio.

The other option is obvious; nobody forces us to buy lottery tickets so why buy them if we feel we are getting cheated?

Do we really need a Federal Lottery Commission to tell us that?
ICNUMBERS

Messy Michigan
United States
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August 28, 2008
110 Posts
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Oct 12, 2008, 9:47 pm

Quote: Originally posted by Stack47 on Oct 12, 2008
"And if your picks were always filtered out from winning, it wouldn't matter."

I define random as each number or digit having an equal chance of being drawn so that each combination (whether is was drawn the night before or never drawn) has an equal chance. Now if in fact your state lottery is filtering out some combinations, the drawing is not random so you should take that proof to whoever oversees your state lottery.

"I'm not soliciting a lhuge government institution. Just one that verifies that lotteries are indeed playing by thier rules and regulations and are not biasing winning number selections."

Under most state lottery rules the lottery director decides what is random and what methods are used to ensure random drawings. I know of no state lottery selling tickets outside their state so there is no reason for the Feds to get involved and create a Federal Lottery Commission with no jurisdiction.

"Payoff charts is not a security method."

When I look at a pick-3 or pick-4 game odds and payoff chart I can easily determine my lottery (Ohio) has a fixed payoff and on average should keep about 50 cents for every dollar wagered. I know any player can wager on any combination and it means more will be wagered on some combinations and less on others. If the drawings are random, over time the payoffs when a heavily wagered combination is drawn should balance out with the lighter wagered combination payoffs. If you believe the drawings are fixed so only the lightly wagered combinations are drawn, the payoff to sales ratio should be well under 50%. The Ohio Lottery website does show how much ($370.9 million) was wagered on the Pick-3 in the fiscal year 2007 and that averages out to about $508,000 per drawing.

Just based on the odds and payoff chart the lottery should expect to keep about half or $185,450,000 and I see no reason to risk losing players and volume of play by rigging the drawings.

"My security issues are with the computer geneated winning numbers."

When the Tennessee Lottery went to computer drawings, the RNG was programed for no repeat numbers so for almost a month it was impossible for double, double/double, triple, or quadruple digits to be drawn in its pick-3 and pick-4 games. With live ball drawings we can see the chaotic conditions created to ensure a random draw and it would be much more difficult to rig the outcome for a specific result. The problem with computer drawings is we must rely on the integrity of the lottery's security methods because we only see the results.

"After all fairness is irrevelant and there isn't a gun in sight."

We all can think of a number of methods a computerized drawings could be rigged to benefit the state lottery profits but knowing the methods exist and proving the methods are being used are two different things. If you really want to make a case to your governor or state legislators, start with the payoff to sales ratio.

The other option is obvious; nobody forces us to buy lottery tickets so why buy them if we feel we are getting cheated?

Do we really need a Federal Lottery Commission to tell us that?

Nope not at all. Looks like we don't need the FDA either with all the meds they pass that cause more side effects than the symptoms that you had 2 start with. C the lottery is like a box of chocolates you never know what there going to pull so with that being said good luck 2 all the lotto players who play strictly by chance bcuz even with a Federal Lottery Commission playing Big Brother for those who don't do there homework they are going to continue to keep getting treated like a step-child.

When the Tennessee Lottery went to computer drawings, the RNG was programed for no repeat numbers so for almost a month it was impossible for double, double/double, triple, or quadruple digits to be drawn in its pick-3 and pick-4 games. With live ball drawings we can see the chaotic conditions created to ensure a random draw and it would be much more difficult to rig the outcome for a specific result. The problem with computer drawings is we must rely on the integrity of the lottery's security methods because we only see the results.

So u don't think that this is a form of cheating?

Remember we are the decisions that we make, please take the time to educate.
guesser

United States
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Oct 13, 2008, 12:22 am

JKING - where is there a game that the grand prize pays 50 cents on the Dollar ?
time*treat

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Oct 13, 2008, 12:35 am

Who verifies the verifiers?

In neo-conned Amerika, bank robs you.
Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be the name of a convenience store, not a govnoment agency.
Wintariofan

Kingston, Ontario
Canada
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Oct 13, 2008, 2:24 am

The state lotteries should be run by the government directly...whether federal or by the state legislatures so that games can be tax free when you win them. If the governemnt directly ran these games, then they would not have to tax you when you win, they would essentially be taking it when you buy your tickets and advertising jackpots as the true amounts. All lottereis here in Canada are tax free, and you see what lottery dollars have done wherever you go. Every hockey arena, sports complex, hospital, community theatre, outdoor track, cultural group at some point has received lottery grants. You feel a lot better buying a ticket when you know your lottery dollar is hard at work. I understand there is a relationship with the state and some of these lottery corporations. However, it isn't enough. They lottery is a lot more accountable when the government themselves run them.

"Together We're Making Good Things Happen, Ontario's Lotteries...WE ALL WIN"
Stack47

Kentucky
United States
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February 14, 2006
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Oct 13, 2008, 2:48 pm

Quote: Originally posted by ICNUMBERS on Oct 12, 2008
Nope not at all. Looks like we don't need the FDA either with all the meds they pass that cause more side effects than the symptoms that you had 2 start with. C the lottery is like a box of chocolates you never know what there going to pull so with that being said good luck 2 all the lotto players who play strictly by chance bcuz even with a Federal Lottery Commission playing Big Brother for those who don't do there homework they are going to continue to keep getting treated like a step-child.

When the Tennessee Lottery went to computer drawings, the RNG was programed for no repeat numbers so for almost a month it was impossible for double, double/double, triple, or quadruple digits to be drawn in its pick-3 and pick-4 games. With live ball drawings we can see the chaotic conditions created to ensure a random draw and it would be much more difficult to rig the outcome for a specific result. The problem with computer drawings is we must rely on the integrity of the lottery's security methods because we only see the results.

So u don't think that this is a form of cheating?

I still haven't heard what would be the function or what powers a Federal lottery or gambling commission would have. We can't compare it to the FDA because state lotteries only sell and cash tickets within their respective states. Even with games like Mega Millions where states contribute to a common jackpot, I can buy a MM ticket in Michigan but can't cash it in Ohio, Texas or California.

The Tennessee Lottery called it a "mistake" and offered to buy back any tickets sold during that time period that had more matching digits. However since the players that bought tickets with matching digits had no chance of winning, I believe they were cheated.

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