A present to family that says if I win powerball, I'll give you X%. Does that work?Prev Topic Next Topic

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Coin Toss

Zeta Reticuli Star System
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Aug 20, 2010, 11:29 pm

andymnfun,

" If I buy 1,000 tickets over 10 years, I have a 1 in 1,952,491 in winning the powerball, but hey, crazier things have happened."

No, you will have had 1,000 tickets that were all up against 1 in 195,249,054 odds against winning the Powerball. Only one set of numbers is drawn, thus that one set wins if anyone has it and every other set loses. The same exact thing happens for every drawing.

RJOH,

What you say above is true, but it's not unheard of for people who are given a large sum of money from a lottery win to tell the giver, "You won millions, how about taking care of the taxes for me, too." Large amounts of money do strange things to people.

Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any. So many systems, so many theories, so few jackpot winners.

There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.
RJOh

100

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Aug 20, 2010, 11:48 pm

What you say above is true, but it's not unheard of for people who are given a large sum of money from a lottery win to tell the giver, "You won millions, how about taking care of the taxes for me, too." Large amounts of money do strange things to people.

In that case the giver should explain to the receivers that was why they were put on the form as one of the winners. Now the taxes are their problems.

* you don't need to buy every combination, just the winning ones *
Coin Toss

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Aug 20, 2010, 11:59 pm

They're not going to want to be on a form, or even sign it. They're going want what they deem their "fair share" tax free, gratis of the winner.

Like many other things in life, no matter what you do, it's nevr enough.

"You won $60 million and are givng me $1 million, c'mon, take care of the taxes for me."

Level 2 is that if you did do it they way you suggest (which is a good suggestion) many of the recipients would hate the giver for it from then on.

"That dirty !@%^(@$ won $60 million, gave me one, and wouldn't even cover me for the tax on it."

Such is human nature.

Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any. So many systems, so many theories, so few jackpot winners.

There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.
sully16

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Ringleader

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Aug 21, 2010, 12:05 am

Everything I'd do for my family would be done quietly.
RJOh

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Aug 21, 2010, 12:12 am

"That dirty !@%^(@$ won $60 million, gave me one, and wouldn't even cover me for the tax on it."

I know, that time that GM gave all of Oprah guess a new car, many of them acted like they had never paid taxes on a car before. Some of them cried like someone had stabbed them in the back.

* you don't need to buy every combination, just the winning ones *
jwhou

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Aug 21, 2010, 12:58 am

Quote: Originally posted by andymnfun on Aug 20, 2010
I thought it'd be a fun present to give my family that says something like, "If I win the lottery jackpot, I will share 20% with you (to my parent's of course)", and then for my sister and brother, I'd say "If I win the lottery jackpot, I will give you 5%. ".

Would that work? Lol, the gift tax thing is crazy. If you have prior arraginments where other people contribute to the lottery ticket, I heard it doesn't get a gift tax.

Any thoughts on this?

:)

How not fair would that be if I won like $20,000,000 and gave away $4,200,000 that had to pay $1,890,000 again in taxes. Not fair!

The best you can hope for would be to say that you all had joint ownership of the ticket, with 20% being your parents and your siblings 5% each and the remainder being yours. Everybody's share will be taxed as income with 25% being with held by the lottery commission (if it's a big enough win, you'll all be owing more come April 15th, that with holding won't cover it all). Some families will form a trust or corporation to collect the prize, not only does it retain their anonymity to a certain extent but their individual taxes would only get taxed as the funds are dispersed from the trust. All property could be owned directly by the corporation or the trust and any existing property that you have could be sold to the trust/corporation and you can all have credit cards and expense accounts from the trust/corporation. Of course there will be a whole bunch of other taxes and administration fees to worry about but the concept gives you more flexibility in minimizing taxes.
jwhou

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Aug 21, 2010, 1:08 am

Quote: Originally posted by Coin Toss on Aug 20, 2010
andymnfun,

" If I buy 1,000 tickets over 10 years, I have a 1 in 1,952,491 in winning the powerball, but hey, crazier things have happened."

No, you will have had 1,000 tickets that were all up against 1 in 195,249,054 odds against winning the Powerball. Only one set of numbers is drawn, thus that one set wins if anyone has it and every other set loses. The same exact thing happens for every drawing.

RJOH,

What you say above is true, but it's not unheard of for people who are given a large sum of money from a lottery win to tell the giver, "You won millions, how about taking care of the taxes for me, too." Large amounts of money do strange things to people.

There would be two Powerball draws a week for a total of 1,040 Powerball draws over ten years. If all 1,000 tickets were on one draw and none of the tickets overlapped then it would be 1 in 1,952,491 but if it was one ticket per draw except for 40 draws then it's 1 - ( 1 - 1/195,249,054)^1,000 which you will find to be ever so slightly worse than 1/1,952,491 but there is the remote chance that you could win more than one jackpot prize when it's spread out over multiple draws while having it all in one draw precludes that completely.
KY Floyd

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Aug 22, 2010, 1:57 pm

"If I win the lottery jackpot, I will share 20% with you (to my parent's of course)", and then for my sister and brother, I'd say "If I win the lottery jackpot, I will give you 5%. ".

Why on Earth would you think that promising to give somebody a gift would keep it from being a gift?

"If you have prior arraginments where other people contribute to the lottery ticket, I heard it doesn't get a gift tax."

If somebody contributes to the ticket they own part of it, so they're not being given a gift. The way to avoid gift taxes is to not give somebody something that's worth enough to trigger a gift tax. Unless it's a very small jackpot there's no way to give somebody a share of a jackpot without giving them a gift that will be subject to gift tax.
drhymes74

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Aug 27, 2010, 9:29 pm

Quote: Originally posted by Coin Toss on Aug 20, 2010
andymnfun,

" If I buy 1,000 tickets over 10 years, I have a 1 in 1,952,491 in winning the powerball, but hey, crazier things have happened."

No, you will have had 1,000 tickets that were all up against 1 in 195,249,054 odds against winning the Powerball. Only one set of numbers is drawn, thus that one set wins if anyone has it and every other set loses. The same exact thing happens for every drawing.

RJOH,

What you say above is true, but it's not unheard of for people who are given a large sum of money from a lottery win to tell the giver, "You won millions, how about taking care of the taxes for me, too." Large amounts of money do strange things to people.

Coin Toss,

I have a question regarding your comment on the odds when you buy multiple tickets.

There is a game in Maryland that is called Multi Match

For $2 you play a line of 6 numbers and get an additional 2 lines of 6 numbers. You win the jackpot by matching all 6 numbers on one of the 3 lines.

On the Md website it lists the odds as follows:

The probability of winning the jackpot per line is 1 in 6,096,454 and the probability of winning per ticket (that is with the 2 additional lines) is 1 in 2,032,151.7 (which is the probability of winning the jackpot per line divided by 3).

I understand how you get the probability of matching 6 numbers per line to get the jackpot, but if there are two additional lines, the odds decrease by a third (3 lines of play) Following this logic would imply that if I buy 5 tickets my probability of winning the jackpot would be 6,096,454 divided by 15 or 1 in 406,430.2667. 15 coming from 5 tickets times 3 lines of play.

Based on what you said the odds would not decrease by a factor of 15 (for 5 tickets) and a factor of 3 for just one ticket.

"It's not a matter of 'if,' but a matter of 'WHEN!!!' "
savagegoose

adelaide sa
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Aug 28, 2010, 6:42 am

lol simple ok ill take care of your tax problems. cancel the cheque and they have no more tax problems

" Still swinging, still missing "
2014 = -1016; 2015= -1409; 2016 = -1171; 2017 = -1257 ; 2018 = - 1380 = TOT = - 6233

keno historic = -2291 ; 2015= -603; 2016= -424; 2017 =-427; 2018= -223 TOT = -3968

:
KY Floyd

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Aug 28, 2010, 1:14 pm

Quote: Originally posted by drhymes74 on Aug 27, 2010
Coin Toss,

I have a question regarding your comment on the odds when you buy multiple tickets.

There is a game in Maryland that is called Multi Match

For $2 you play a line of 6 numbers and get an additional 2 lines of 6 numbers. You win the jackpot by matching all 6 numbers on one of the 3 lines.

On the Md website it lists the odds as follows:

The probability of winning the jackpot per line is 1 in 6,096,454 and the probability of winning per ticket (that is with the 2 additional lines) is 1 in 2,032,151.7 (which is the probability of winning the jackpot per line divided by 3).

I understand how you get the probability of matching 6 numbers per line to get the jackpot, but if there are two additional lines, the odds decrease by a third (3 lines of play) Following this logic would imply that if I buy 5 tickets my probability of winning the jackpot would be 6,096,454 divided by 15 or 1 in 406,430.2667. 15 coming from 5 tickets times 3 lines of play.

Based on what you said the odds would not decrease by a factor of 15 (for 5 tickets) and a factor of 3 for just one ticket.

You understand it correctly, Coin Toss doesn't.
TheGameGrl

A long and winding road
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Aug 28, 2010, 8:37 pm

There is a one time lifetime gift restriction (non taxable) currently set at 5 million(accumulative) for family members. Which yes will be changing in Jan 2011.

SO if my family cant handle five million amongst themsevles then shame on them.....

To divert the upcoming death tax, create the TRUST and assign members to it. This deters certain taxs being imposed when one member pass's on.....

I prefer the tried and true method, Bury it in a yard and leave the map to moi! I promise not to tell uncle sam!

Count your smiles.
Iesha Kelly

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Aug 29, 2010, 2:18 am

Quote: Originally posted by andymnfun on Aug 20, 2010
Why would you have to talk to an attoryney? I'm pretty sure most everyone who does group buys doesn't talk to an attorney.

I thought there had to be some established basis of agreement about splitting lottery tickets before the actual drawing. Maybe sending them emails saying the plan, and if I won I could present the date of the email as a basis of an agreement. That seems like it would work pretty well.

There has to be some way of splitting the pot without doing it 100% evenly between all winners.

What if I bought $50 worth of powerballs and my friend gave me $5, and I said ok, I'll give you 10%. Doesn't that ever happen?

By the way, I sent an email to powerball inquiring about variable percentages on dividing payouts on powerball. Hopefully they will say I can do it. I know the chances of winning are really, really low, but wouldn't it suck if you won and had to pay an extra 45% of already taxed money. That would be like losing $6,750,000 on a $50,000,000 cashout when I would be splitting $15,000,000 with my family. I'd be at $28,250,000 instead of $35,000,000.

Why include an attorney? Because it's the smart thing to do. Wasn't there just a story last year about two elderly sisters fighting for years over a lottery win? Never EVER promise something to someone without paper/legal backup; because not only will they want a cut -- you're going to need to protect yourself from your own suddenly failed memory about what promises you made to whom, when.

Talk to an attorney, and talk to an accountant if you're truly serious.