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# understanding odds of winning?

Topic closed. 8 replies. Last post 6 years ago by four4me.

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New Member
Bronx, NY
United States
Member #101676
December 6, 2010
8 Posts
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 Posted: December 7, 2010, 12:31 am - IP Logged

Hello,

I would like to understand the odds of winning on scratch off games. When a ticket says 1 in 10 does that mean that every 10 tickets only 1 wins? Also can someone explain a bit about "Overall Odds"?

MD
United States
Member #1701
June 18, 2003
8360 Posts
Offline
 Posted: December 7, 2010, 12:48 am - IP Logged

In theory it means that if you buy 10 tickets one should be a winner but it doesn't really work like that there could be three winners in a row and then 25 tickets after that could be losers. Or you could buy three tickets and two of them are winners and the next 15 would be losers.

Big John says. You don't hit the number. The number hits you!!!!

I'm not Big John, I'm Four4me, Big John's a friend.
New Member
Bronx, NY
United States
Member #101676
December 6, 2010
8 Posts
Offline
 Posted: December 7, 2010, 12:55 am - IP Logged

Thank YOU!

How about the Overall Odds: 1 in 2.93 ?

MD
United States
Member #1701
June 18, 2003
8360 Posts
Offline
 Posted: December 7, 2010, 1:33 am - IP Logged

Thank YOU!

How about the Overall Odds: 1 in 2.93 ?

For scratch off tickets the overall amount of printed tickets have whatever the amount of winners there are in the odds.

The problem is the winning tickets are dispersed randomly among all the printed tickets.

There are several reasons for this mostly to prevent people from guessing what #  tickets are winners.

If every 3rd 5 th and 9th ticket and so on throughout a book were winners then people could stand by the counter and buy those tickets when some unsuspecting person just bought ticket 2 - 4 - 8 and so on.

Nobody supposedly knows what book contains the big money winners but I'm sure somebody possibly the printers of the tickets do.

Big John says. You don't hit the number. The number hits you!!!!

I'm not Big John, I'm Four4me, Big John's a friend.

United States
Member #97729
September 22, 2010
321 Posts
Offline
 Posted: December 7, 2010, 4:52 am - IP Logged

For scratch off tickets the overall amount of printed tickets have whatever the amount of winners there are in the odds.

The problem is the winning tickets are dispersed randomly among all the printed tickets.

There are several reasons for this mostly to prevent people from guessing what #  tickets are winners.

If every 3rd 5 th and 9th ticket and so on throughout a book were winners then people could stand by the counter and buy those tickets when some unsuspecting person just bought ticket 2 - 4 - 8 and so on.

Nobody supposedly knows what book contains the big money winners but I'm sure somebody possibly the printers of the tickets do.

The printers definitely know which tickets are winners, or at least have the ability to do so. I used to be in the printing industry, and part of the job is inspecting your product for proper color density, hue, vibrance, the color alignment, the alignment of the page itself, and so on. I worked printing the newspaper. You have to see to it that everything is set right. You do this at the beginning, and all through the printing process. It has to be dark enough to look nice, yet not too dark so as to rub off on the paper it is contacting.

Unless you are using a specific color ink for a more precise job, you only have 4 colors to work with: yellow, magenta, cyan and black. Any color in the world can be made from those 4, but it does not happen by itself. You need a good eye, and the first ticket should look as good as the last. You don't want to see the back of the newspaper on the front page, nor do you want to see it on lottery tickets. Real printing is a whole lot more technical than printing something off on your ink-jet or laser printer. The difference is like the difference between driving 3,000 pound cars and 80,000 pound tractor trailers. I have done all of the above. You need a highly skilled person to print lottery tickets, and I would bet that they might have to pass some type of extensive background check.

On the other hand, it looks to me like the ticket number is printed on the front AFTER the rest of the ticket is printed, but I may be wrong. It looks like it is printed after the coating is put on, so my guess is that the person who initially prints the ticket knows that the ticket is or is not a winner, but does not know at that point in time what the ticket number is. Likewise, the person printing the three digit number probably does not see what is under the coating, so they cannot see whether or not it is a winning ticket. I am only speculating, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I have not printed lottery tickets, only newspapers, in one printing pass. I have never printed multi-step products, except in high school, in graphic arts class.

I think the artwork is printed first, then the background. After that probably the numbers and symbols. Then after that, the coating which hides the numbers and symbols which you scratch off. Then most likely the back of the ticket and the front 3 digit code are printed. Once again, I may be dead wrong. I am just making an educated guess based on my training and experience. It may be all automated, or some of it, but someone has to do quality checks. Someone has to make sure that the tickets are printed to look right. Someone also has to do periodic spot checks to make sure the winners are where they should be, and in the right amounts, etc.

The printers would have to be in cahoots, but if the ticket numbers on the back of the tickets are printed after covering, it would be difficult to keep up with them. On the other hand, if the front and back of the tickets are printed at the same time, and before the coating goes on, then all bets are off. They could see everything, including the pack number, but they probably would not know where the tickets are headed. I know that they say that the tickets are sent out randomly, but I can tell you for certain that at least one convenience store I know of has 2 sets of three consecutive books. Books with the following numbers were all put out around the same time, at the same store: 842-171381-XXX, 842-171382-XXX, 842-171383-XXX, 842-194921-XXX, 842-194922-XXX, 842-194923-XXX.

I was in a part of town yesterday that I am not usually in, so I bought a ticket at the store, and the clerk steered me away from the Holiday Gifts ticket when I asked about it. He said that a man had just come in and hit for \$100 on that game, and he showed me the prior ticket. The clerk also stated that the same man had purchased another ticket, either 10x The Money or Sapphires and Gold , at the same time, and it had hit for \$100 also. The only identifying comment was that the man was Chinese, so that is all I know. That seems a little suspicious to me, but it could have been just random.  \$10 spent on 2 tickets, and the man walks away with \$200. Kind of makes you wonder, doesn't it.

If you seem like you are getting too close to figuring things out, then the Lottery Commission might take you on a one-way camping trip. Or they might take you on a fishing trip with a few of their buddies. They might make you some nice designer cement shoes. They might show you how to skydive without a parachute. Say, what happened to that guy that used to post on here a while back? It seems like I haven't heard from him in a while.

United States
Member #97729
September 22, 2010
321 Posts
Offline
 Posted: December 7, 2010, 4:55 am - IP Logged

I inquired to the Georgia Lottery as to this matter, and this is the response that I recieved:

Thank you for contacting the Georgia Lottery Corporation (GLC).

The Georgia Lottery goes to great lengths to ensure the security and integrity
of every game.  Game symbols and prize amounts are distributed randomly during
the printing process of instant tickets. All instant games are audited by an
independent CPA firm prior to the release of a game to confirm that the
appropriate number of prizes is included in the printing process of a game.

The overall odds printed on an instant ticket are the odds of winning any prize
in the entire game.  For example, if the odds are 1:4 that means there is a
winning ticket in every four tickets printed in the entire game. Since winning
tickets are randomly distributed during the printing process, this does not mean
that every fourth ticket in a roll is a winning ticket.  There are multiple top
prize winning tickets, as well as multiple prize levels, available in all
Georgia Lottery instant games. Tickets are randomly distributed to more than
8,000 retailers throughout the state.

We appreciate your interest in the GLC and our games

MD
United States
Member #1701
June 18, 2003
8360 Posts
Offline
 Posted: December 7, 2010, 2:15 pm - IP Logged

The printers definitely know which tickets are winners, or at least have the ability to do so. I used to be in the printing industry, and part of the job is inspecting your product for proper color density, hue, vibrance, the color alignment, the alignment of the page itself, and so on. I worked printing the newspaper. You have to see to it that everything is set right. You do this at the beginning, and all through the printing process. It has to be dark enough to look nice, yet not too dark so as to rub off on the paper it is contacting.

Unless you are using a specific color ink for a more precise job, you only have 4 colors to work with: yellow, magenta, cyan and black. Any color in the world can be made from those 4, but it does not happen by itself. You need a good eye, and the first ticket should look as good as the last. You don't want to see the back of the newspaper on the front page, nor do you want to see it on lottery tickets. Real printing is a whole lot more technical than printing something off on your ink-jet or laser printer. The difference is like the difference between driving 3,000 pound cars and 80,000 pound tractor trailers. I have done all of the above. You need a highly skilled person to print lottery tickets, and I would bet that they might have to pass some type of extensive background check.

On the other hand, it looks to me like the ticket number is printed on the front AFTER the rest of the ticket is printed, but I may be wrong. It looks like it is printed after the coating is put on, so my guess is that the person who initially prints the ticket knows that the ticket is or is not a winner, but does not know at that point in time what the ticket number is. Likewise, the person printing the three digit number probably does not see what is under the coating, so they cannot see whether or not it is a winning ticket. I am only speculating, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I have not printed lottery tickets, only newspapers, in one printing pass. I have never printed multi-step products, except in high school, in graphic arts class.

I think the artwork is printed first, then the background. After that probably the numbers and symbols. Then after that, the coating which hides the numbers and symbols which you scratch off. Then most likely the back of the ticket and the front 3 digit code are printed. Once again, I may be dead wrong. I am just making an educated guess based on my training and experience. It may be all automated, or some of it, but someone has to do quality checks. Someone has to make sure that the tickets are printed to look right. Someone also has to do periodic spot checks to make sure the winners are where they should be, and in the right amounts, etc.

The printers would have to be in cahoots, but if the ticket numbers on the back of the tickets are printed after covering, it would be difficult to keep up with them. On the other hand, if the front and back of the tickets are printed at the same time, and before the coating goes on, then all bets are off. They could see everything, including the pack number, but they probably would not know where the tickets are headed. I know that they say that the tickets are sent out randomly, but I can tell you for certain that at least one convenience store I know of has 2 sets of three consecutive books. Books with the following numbers were all put out around the same time, at the same store: 842-171381-XXX, 842-171382-XXX, 842-171383-XXX, 842-194921-XXX, 842-194922-XXX, 842-194923-XXX.

I was in a part of town yesterday that I am not usually in, so I bought a ticket at the store, and the clerk steered me away from the Holiday Gifts ticket when I asked about it. He said that a man had just come in and hit for \$100 on that game, and he showed me the prior ticket. The clerk also stated that the same man had purchased another ticket, either 10x The Money or Sapphires and Gold , at the same time, and it had hit for \$100 also. The only identifying comment was that the man was Chinese, so that is all I know. That seems a little suspicious to me, but it could have been just random.  \$10 spent on 2 tickets, and the man walks away with \$200. Kind of makes you wonder, doesn't it.

If you seem like you are getting too close to figuring things out, then the Lottery Commission might take you on a one-way camping trip. Or they might take you on a fishing trip with a few of their buddies. They might make you some nice designer cement shoes. They might show you how to skydive without a parachute. Say, what happened to that guy that used to post on here a while back? It seems like I haven't heard from him in a while.

As a machinist i am familiar with the printing process as i have made parts for the machines and seen the operations of them first hand.

lottery scratch off books all have a number usually in the lower right hand corner of the ticket depending on the size of the book say a 1.00 dollar book has 50 tickets then the tickets will be numbered 1 through 50 And every book is the same.

Inside the play area under the latex is another number this number is the code they enter or scan that clarifies if it's a winner or not. Then on the back of the ticket is a bar code this number they use to clarify that, that ticket is a winner.

On the discovery channel ( How It's Made ) they showed the whole process of how the tickets are printed. A computer is designated to print the numbers that is under the latex which co insides with the winning numbers on the play area. I'm sure they know which book contains the major prize but I'm not sure they have a clue as to where they are distributed since once out of their hands the lottery people distribute the books to the stores that sell the tickets.

Big John says. You don't hit the number. The number hits you!!!!

I'm not Big John, I'm Four4me, Big John's a friend.

United States
Member #97729
September 22, 2010
321 Posts
Offline
 Posted: December 9, 2010, 12:26 am - IP Logged

As a machinist i am familiar with the printing process as i have made parts for the machines and seen the operations of them first hand.

lottery scratch off books all have a number usually in the lower right hand corner of the ticket depending on the size of the book say a 1.00 dollar book has 50 tickets then the tickets will be numbered 1 through 50 And every book is the same.

Inside the play area under the latex is another number this number is the code they enter or scan that clarifies if it's a winner or not. Then on the back of the ticket is a bar code this number they use to clarify that, that ticket is a winner.

On the discovery channel ( How It's Made ) they showed the whole process of how the tickets are printed. A computer is designated to print the numbers that is under the latex which co insides with the winning numbers on the play area. I'm sure they know which book contains the major prize but I'm not sure they have a clue as to where they are distributed since once out of their hands the lottery people distribute the books to the stores that sell the tickets.

So it sounds like you are saying that each roll of tickets (300 for \$1 tickets, 150 for \$2 tickets, 100 for \$3 tickets, 60 for \$5 tickets, 30 for \$10 tickets, and 15 for \$20 tickets) is first printed in those quantities, and then cut into books. Am I understanding this correctly? Then each book is run through again, to print the backs of the tickets and the play areas. Then the latex is applied? Is that the order?

Or is a continuous process, where it is consecutive rolls that are printed and spooled up? For example, if memory serves me correctly, we could get about 10,000 to 12,000 newspapers (the section that was being printed in each press) from each roll of paper.

We used paster tabs to continue printing between rolls. You would have each new roll spinning as fast as the paper was feeding, but first you made a pattern on new roll that you applied double sided tape to, but you had to have a space for the arm that spun the roll with no tape. Paster tabs held the pattern in place until it cut and spliced both rolls at the same time. If you had even one thing go wrong, it would screw things up for quite a while. When the web gets broken, it is a tedious process to feed the paper back through the rollers. It is even worse if the tape gets through the system, without being attached to the paper correctly. It gets stuck on everything. It would take forever to print the newspaper if we had to shut down the press between rolls.

It looks to me like on the back of the ticket, everything except the bar-code and complete ticket number is printed first. I believe this to be true because the backs of the tickets are clearly two printing processes. One is high quality offset printing and the other is not.

Do you know how they correlate the ticket and roll number from the back, along with the front play area, including the code? Are they printed at the same time? Come to think of it, the play area on the front is lower quality printing than the rest of the front of the ticket.

I guess what I am getting at overall, is all of the information, front and back, printed before the latex is applied? If so, then the last person doing the printing before the latex is applied would know all.

MD
United States
Member #1701
June 18, 2003
8360 Posts
Offline
 Posted: December 9, 2010, 12:50 am - IP Logged

So it sounds like you are saying that each roll of tickets (300 for \$1 tickets, 150 for \$2 tickets, 100 for \$3 tickets, 60 for \$5 tickets, 30 for \$10 tickets, and 15 for \$20 tickets) is first printed in those quantities, and then cut into books. Am I understanding this correctly? Then each book is run through again, to print the backs of the tickets and the play areas. Then the latex is applied? Is that the order?

Or is a continuous process, where it is consecutive rolls that are printed and spooled up? For example, if memory serves me correctly, we could get about 10,000 to 12,000 newspapers (the section that was being printed in each press) from each roll of paper.

We used paster tabs to continue printing between rolls. You would have each new roll spinning as fast as the paper was feeding, but first you made a pattern on new roll that you applied double sided tape to, but you had to have a space for the arm that spun the roll with no tape. Paster tabs held the pattern in place until it cut and spliced both rolls at the same time. If you had even one thing go wrong, it would screw things up for quite a while. When the web gets broken, it is a tedious process to feed the paper back through the rollers. It is even worse if the tape gets through the system, without being attached to the paper correctly. It gets stuck on everything. It would take forever to print the newspaper if we had to shut down the press between rolls.

It looks to me like on the back of the ticket, everything except the bar-code and complete ticket number is printed first. I believe this to be true because the backs of the tickets are clearly two printing processes. One is high quality offset printing and the other is not.

Do you know how they correlate the ticket and roll number from the back, along with the front play area, including the code? Are they printed at the same time? Come to think of it, the play area on the front is lower quality printing than the rest of the front of the ticket.

I guess what I am getting at overall, is all of the information, front and back, printed before the latex is applied? If so, then the last person doing the printing before the latex is applied would know all.

Sorry i cant find the vide but this should explain it

Big John says. You don't hit the number. The number hits you!!!!

I'm not Big John, I'm Four4me, Big John's a friend.

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