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HiJinx @ Craps Cost Wynn $700K + Letting It Slide Info

Topic closed. 12 replies. Last post 5 years ago by eddessaknight.

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November 22, 2006
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Posted: October 1, 2011, 4:38 pm - IP Logged

@ Coin et all craps players

July story now released??? Was this a big George couple? Wonder what their story is in @ casinos in Mar del Plata, Argentina? Enjoy

EddessaKnight

Couple accused of dice sliding at Wynn Las Vegas

While many craps aficionados scoff at the idea that a player can effectively control the roll of the dice, Wynn Las Vegas has become a believer. The Strip resort has filed a lawsuit in Clark County District Court against frequent customers Leonardo Fernandez and Veronica Dabul, both Argentine nationals, asking for the return of about $700,000 Wynn officials say they illegally won during a monthlong cheating spree that ended with their arrest on July 18. The two are suspected of working with several unidentified customers who placed bets or distracted dealers and are accused of pulling off their gambit by using an infrequently seen technique known as dice sliding. As the name implies, dice sliding involves sliding at least one of the dice across the table after positioning it in the hand so that the desired number, generally a six, remains face up. No one claims that sliding, also called scooting, can deliver exact numbers, but skilled sliders can considerably shorten their odds of winning. Dabul was released after two days in the Clark County Detention Center. Fernandez was turned over to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement Service on July 25. Immigration officials could not say what Fernandez's current status was late Friday. The district attorney has not filed charges against either. Although sliding cases have come up in the past, few have been reported in recent years to the Nevada Gaming Control Board, which had the two arrested. "It's not a common form of cheating because it involves a considerable amount of skill and practice," said Jerry Markling, the board's enforcement chief. Although not familiar with the lawsuit, he said the $700,000 that Wynn claims it lost was a "relatively large sum. It is unusual for cheaters to be able to win that much." Alan Mendelson, a former Los Angeles television reporter who has covered gaming issues and now runs a consumer finance website, said he was surprised by the Wynn lawsuit. "Dice sliding is so obvious that it is easy to stop," he said. "It makes no sense they could get away with that much money unless they had inside help." Without closely examining details that have not been released, such as how many slides the two engaged in, over the period of time they were spread, or the size of the bets, University of Nevada, Las Vegas gaming professor Anthony Lucas was reluctant to finger employees as complicit. "I would tend to doubt it," he said, in part because many legitimate dice rolls come up short of the back wall, a key component of sliding. Many sliding cases remain unknown because the casino quietly shows the players the exit, Lucas said. A Wynn official declined to comment on the matter. But according to court papers, "Wynn Las Vegas justifiably relied on the defendants' conduct," as people who visited the property several times and took care to stay apart. This time, Fernandez checked into the Wynn on June 3, and Dabul arrived at the adjoining Encore on June 12. They did not always play together, and Fernandez did not bet on his own slides, the lawsuit said. When they won $145,000 on seven slides on the night of July 17, alarm bells went off within Wynn management and caused them to review the tapes, according to the lawsuit. They then called in the gaming board, which arrested the two the next day. A legal roll is one in which the dice tumble so that their face up becomes random, said David Salas, the gaming board's deputy enforcement chief. Other gaming experts have listed three components to a valid roll: tossing the dice in the air, having them bounce and then rebound off the back wall. If a boxman at a craps table sees a roll that doesn't conform, he can call a "no roll." Lucas and other experts say the case for sliding is relatively simple. Two sixes, known by names such as boxcars or midnight, pay out at 30-to-1. But ensuring that just one die comes up a six greatly improves the chances of the 30-to-1 payout, even if the other die is tossed at random. That spread keeps the odds in the player's favor even if several slides misfire. Also, Lucas said, a successful slide eliminates any number below seven, so sliders will bet eight, nine or ten among other strategies. "What scooting does is change the expected value of a bet from negative to positive," Lucas said. Still, Mendelson, a frequent visitor to Las Vegas for years, said he had seen a slide only once. The player had been on an extended losing streak when he pulled off only one slide that cut his losses slightly, so Mendelson assumed the boxman let it go. Fernandez, of Buenos Aires, had visited the Wynn on at least 39 occasions over the years, according to hotel records, staying anywhere from two days to two months and often playing craps. Dabul came once or twice a year for several weeks at a time, playing blackjack and baccarat in addition to craps. According to what Wynn officials were able to piece together, the two built their winnings in steps over the early summer, working with other people. The court papers depict them as playing different tables, in different teams, with at least one trying to distract people working at the table during slides.

 

LET IT SLIDE The starting point for any slide, said several gaming experts, is to stand next to the stick man who is positioned in the middle of a craps table. This gives the player the shortest possible distance to the table's back wall.
Then, the slider positions the dice in his hand so that at least one will remain face up on the desired number. Usually giving the dice a spin upon release helps desired face to remain up while going across the felt table top.
Finally, at least one of the dice should come just short of the back wall, close enough to keep the boxman from calling a "no roll" while far enough to avoid the rows of hard rubber spikes that form the inside lining of both ends of a table.
Because even basic competence at sliding, also called scooting, can take thousands of practice repetitions, often at home, not many people pull it off, said University of Nevada, Las Vegas gaming professor Anthony Lucas.  "You have to have a real passion for it," he said. "There are scooters, but you can't become one by just reading a book or watching a video."
Nevada Gaming Control Board deputy enforcement chief David Salas likened sliding to walking a tight rope. "You can do it after a lot of work, but a lot of people fall off," he said.
Posted: Oct. 1, 2011 | 2:00 a.m. Updated: Oct. 1, 2011 | 7:38 a.m.

While many craps aficionados scoff at the idea that a player can effectively control the roll of the dice, Wynn Las Vegas has become a believer. The Strip resort has filed a lawsuit in Clark County District Court against frequent customers Leonardo Fernandez and Veronica Dabul, both Argentine nationals, asking for the return of about $700,000 Wynn officials say they illegally won during a monthlong cheating spree that ended with their arrest on July 18. The two are suspected of working with several unidentified customers who placed bets or distracted dealers and are accused of pulling off their gambit by using an infrequently seen technique known as dice sliding. As the name implies, dice sliding involves sliding at least one of the dice across the table after positioning it in the hand so that the desired number, generally a six, remains face up. No one claims that sliding, also called scooting, can deliver exact numbers, but skilled sliders can considerably shorten their odds of winning. Dabul was released after two days in the Clark County Detention Center. Fernandez was turned over to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement Service on July 25. Immigration officials could not say what Fernandez's current status was late Friday. The district attorney has not filed charges against either. Although sliding cases have come up in the past, few have been reported in recent years to the Nevada Gaming Control Board, which had the two arrested. "It's not a common form of cheating because it involves a considerable amount of skill and practice," said Jerry Markling, the board's enforcement chief. Although not familiar with the lawsuit, he said the $700,000 that Wynn claims it lost was a "relatively large sum. It is unusual for cheaters to be able to win that much." Alan Mendelson, a former Los Angeles television reporter who has covered gaming issues and now runs a consumer finance website, said he was surprised by the Wynn lawsuit. "Dice sliding is so obvious that it is easy to stop," he said. "It makes no sense they could get away with that much money unless they had inside help." Without closely examining details that have not been released, such as how many slides the two engaged in, over the period of time they were spread, or the size of the bets, University of Nevada, Las Vegas gaming professor Anthony Lucas was reluctant to finger employees as complicit. "I would tend to doubt it," he said, in part because many legitimate dice rolls come up short of the back wall, a key component of sliding. Many sliding cases remain unknown because the casino quietly shows the players the exit, Lucas said. A Wynn official declined to comment on the matter. But according to court papers, "Wynn Las Vegas justifiably relied on the defendants' conduct," as people who visited the property several times and took care to stay apart. This time, Fernandez checked into the Wynn on June 3, and Dabul arrived at the adjoining Encore on June 12. They did not always play together, and Fernandez did not bet on his own slides, the lawsuit said. When they won $145,000 on seven slides on the night of July 17, alarm bells went off within Wynn management and caused them to review the tapes, according to the lawsuit. They then called in the gaming board, which arrested the two the next day. A legal roll is one in which the dice tumble so that their face up becomes random, said David Salas, the gaming board's deputy enforcement chief. Other gaming experts have listed three components to a valid roll: tossing the dice in the air, having them bounce & then rebound off the back wall. If a boxman at a craps table sees a roll that doesn't conform, he can call a "no roll." Lucas and other experts say the case for sliding is relatively simple. Two sixes, known by names such as boxcars or midnight, pay out at 30-to-1. But ensuring that just one die comes up a six greatly improves the chances of the 30-to-1 payout, even if the other die is tossed at random. That spread keeps the odds in the player's favor even if several slides misfire. Also, Lucas said, a successful slide eliminates any number below seven, so sliders will bet eight, nine or ten among other strategies. "What scooting does is change the expected value of a bet from negative to positive," Lucas said. Still, Mendelson, a frequent visitor to Las Vegas for years, said he had seen a slide only once. The player had been on an extended losing streak when he pulled off only one slide that cut his losses slightly, so Mendelson assumed the boxman let it go. Fernandez, of Buenos Aires, had visited the Wynn on at least 39 occasions over the years, according to hotel records, staying anywhere from two days to two months and often playing craps. Dabul came once or twice a year for several weeks at a time, playing blackjack and baccarat in addition to craps. According to what Wynn officials were able to piece together, the two built their winnings in steps over the early summer, working with other people. The court papers depict them as playing different tables, in different teams, with at least one trying to distract people working at the table during slides.
    eddessaknight's avatar - nw paladin.jpg
    LAS VEGAS
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    November 22, 2006
    4495 Posts
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    Posted: October 2, 2011, 2:43 pm - IP Logged

    @ Coin et all craps players

    July story now released??? Was this a big George couple? Wonder what their story is in @ casinos in Mar del Plata, Argentina? Enjoy

    EddessaKnight

    Couple accused of dice sliding at Wynn Las Vegas

    While many craps aficionados scoff at the idea that a player can effectively control the roll of the dice, Wynn Las Vegas has become a believer. The Strip resort has filed a lawsuit in Clark County District Court against frequent customers Leonardo Fernandez and Veronica Dabul, both Argentine nationals, asking for the return of about $700,000 Wynn officials say they illegally won during a monthlong cheating spree that ended with their arrest on July 18. The two are suspected of working with several unidentified customers who placed bets or distracted dealers and are accused of pulling off their gambit by using an infrequently seen technique known as dice sliding. As the name implies, dice sliding involves sliding at least one of the dice across the table after positioning it in the hand so that the desired number, generally a six, remains face up. No one claims that sliding, also called scooting, can deliver exact numbers, but skilled sliders can considerably shorten their odds of winning. Dabul was released after two days in the Clark County Detention Center. Fernandez was turned over to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement Service on July 25. Immigration officials could not say what Fernandez's current status was late Friday. The district attorney has not filed charges against either. Although sliding cases have come up in the past, few have been reported in recent years to the Nevada Gaming Control Board, which had the two arrested. "It's not a common form of cheating because it involves a considerable amount of skill and practice," said Jerry Markling, the board's enforcement chief. Although not familiar with the lawsuit, he said the $700,000 that Wynn claims it lost was a "relatively large sum. It is unusual for cheaters to be able to win that much." Alan Mendelson, a former Los Angeles television reporter who has covered gaming issues and now runs a consumer finance website, said he was surprised by the Wynn lawsuit. "Dice sliding is so obvious that it is easy to stop," he said. "It makes no sense they could get away with that much money unless they had inside help." Without closely examining details that have not been released, such as how many slides the two engaged in, over the period of time they were spread, or the size of the bets, University of Nevada, Las Vegas gaming professor Anthony Lucas was reluctant to finger employees as complicit. "I would tend to doubt it," he said, in part because many legitimate dice rolls come up short of the back wall, a key component of sliding. Many sliding cases remain unknown because the casino quietly shows the players the exit, Lucas said. A Wynn official declined to comment on the matter. But according to court papers, "Wynn Las Vegas justifiably relied on the defendants' conduct," as people who visited the property several times and took care to stay apart. This time, Fernandez checked into the Wynn on June 3, and Dabul arrived at the adjoining Encore on June 12. They did not always play together, and Fernandez did not bet on his own slides, the lawsuit said. When they won $145,000 on seven slides on the night of July 17, alarm bells went off within Wynn management and caused them to review the tapes, according to the lawsuit. They then called in the gaming board, which arrested the two the next day. A legal roll is one in which the dice tumble so that their face up becomes random, said David Salas, the gaming board's deputy enforcement chief. Other gaming experts have listed three components to a valid roll: tossing the dice in the air, having them bounce and then rebound off the back wall. If a boxman at a craps table sees a roll that doesn't conform, he can call a "no roll." Lucas and other experts say the case for sliding is relatively simple. Two sixes, known by names such as boxcars or midnight, pay out at 30-to-1. But ensuring that just one die comes up a six greatly improves the chances of the 30-to-1 payout, even if the other die is tossed at random. That spread keeps the odds in the player's favor even if several slides misfire. Also, Lucas said, a successful slide eliminates any number below seven, so sliders will bet eight, nine or ten among other strategies. "What scooting does is change the expected value of a bet from negative to positive," Lucas said. Still, Mendelson, a frequent visitor to Las Vegas for years, said he had seen a slide only once. The player had been on an extended losing streak when he pulled off only one slide that cut his losses slightly, so Mendelson assumed the boxman let it go. Fernandez, of Buenos Aires, had visited the Wynn on at least 39 occasions over the years, according to hotel records, staying anywhere from two days to two months and often playing craps. Dabul came once or twice a year for several weeks at a time, playing blackjack and baccarat in addition to craps. According to what Wynn officials were able to piece together, the two built their winnings in steps over the early summer, working with other people. The court papers depict them as playing different tables, in different teams, with at least one trying to distract people working at the table during slides.

     

    LET IT SLIDE The starting point for any slide, said several gaming experts, is to stand next to the stick man who is positioned in the middle of a craps table. This gives the player the shortest possible distance to the table's back wall.
    Then, the slider positions the dice in his hand so that at least one will remain face up on the desired number. Usually giving the dice a spin upon release helps desired face to remain up while going across the felt table top.
    Finally, at least one of the dice should come just short of the back wall, close enough to keep the boxman from calling a "no roll" while far enough to avoid the rows of hard rubber spikes that form the inside lining of both ends of a table.
    Because even basic competence at sliding, also called scooting, can take thousands of practice repetitions, often at home, not many people pull it off, said University of Nevada, Las Vegas gaming professor Anthony Lucas.  "You have to have a real passion for it," he said. "There are scooters, but you can't become one by just reading a book or watching a video."
    Nevada Gaming Control Board deputy enforcement chief David Salas likened sliding to walking a tight rope. "You can do it after a lot of work, but a lot of people fall off," he said.
    Posted: Oct. 1, 2011 | 2:00 a.m. Updated: Oct. 1, 2011 | 7:38 a.m.

    While many craps aficionados scoff at the idea that a player can effectively control the roll of the dice, Wynn Las Vegas has become a believer. The Strip resort has filed a lawsuit in Clark County District Court against frequent customers Leonardo Fernandez and Veronica Dabul, both Argentine nationals, asking for the return of about $700,000 Wynn officials say they illegally won during a monthlong cheating spree that ended with their arrest on July 18. The two are suspected of working with several unidentified customers who placed bets or distracted dealers and are accused of pulling off their gambit by using an infrequently seen technique known as dice sliding. As the name implies, dice sliding involves sliding at least one of the dice across the table after positioning it in the hand so that the desired number, generally a six, remains face up. No one claims that sliding, also called scooting, can deliver exact numbers, but skilled sliders can considerably shorten their odds of winning. Dabul was released after two days in the Clark County Detention Center. Fernandez was turned over to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement Service on July 25. Immigration officials could not say what Fernandez's current status was late Friday. The district attorney has not filed charges against either. Although sliding cases have come up in the past, few have been reported in recent years to the Nevada Gaming Control Board, which had the two arrested. "It's not a common form of cheating because it involves a considerable amount of skill and practice," said Jerry Markling, the board's enforcement chief. Although not familiar with the lawsuit, he said the $700,000 that Wynn claims it lost was a "relatively large sum. It is unusual for cheaters to be able to win that much." Alan Mendelson, a former Los Angeles television reporter who has covered gaming issues and now runs a consumer finance website, said he was surprised by the Wynn lawsuit. "Dice sliding is so obvious that it is easy to stop," he said. "It makes no sense they could get away with that much money unless they had inside help." Without closely examining details that have not been released, such as how many slides the two engaged in, over the period of time they were spread, or the size of the bets, University of Nevada, Las Vegas gaming professor Anthony Lucas was reluctant to finger employees as complicit. "I would tend to doubt it," he said, in part because many legitimate dice rolls come up short of the back wall, a key component of sliding. Many sliding cases remain unknown because the casino quietly shows the players the exit, Lucas said. A Wynn official declined to comment on the matter. But according to court papers, "Wynn Las Vegas justifiably relied on the defendants' conduct," as people who visited the property several times and took care to stay apart. This time, Fernandez checked into the Wynn on June 3, and Dabul arrived at the adjoining Encore on June 12. They did not always play together, and Fernandez did not bet on his own slides, the lawsuit said. When they won $145,000 on seven slides on the night of July 17, alarm bells went off within Wynn management and caused them to review the tapes, according to the lawsuit. They then called in the gaming board, which arrested the two the next day. A legal roll is one in which the dice tumble so that their face up becomes random, said David Salas, the gaming board's deputy enforcement chief. Other gaming experts have listed three components to a valid roll: tossing the dice in the air, having them bounce & then rebound off the back wall. If a boxman at a craps table sees a roll that doesn't conform, he can call a "no roll." Lucas and other experts say the case for sliding is relatively simple. Two sixes, known by names such as boxcars or midnight, pay out at 30-to-1. But ensuring that just one die comes up a six greatly improves the chances of the 30-to-1 payout, even if the other die is tossed at random. That spread keeps the odds in the player's favor even if several slides misfire. Also, Lucas said, a successful slide eliminates any number below seven, so sliders will bet eight, nine or ten among other strategies. "What scooting does is change the expected value of a bet from negative to positive," Lucas said. Still, Mendelson, a frequent visitor to Las Vegas for years, said he had seen a slide only once. The player had been on an extended losing streak when he pulled off only one slide that cut his losses slightly, so Mendelson assumed the boxman let it go. Fernandez, of Buenos Aires, had visited the Wynn on at least 39 occasions over the years, according to hotel records, staying anywhere from two days to two months and often playing craps. Dabul came once or twice a year for several weeks at a time, playing blackjack and baccarat in addition to craps. According to what Wynn officials were able to piece together, the two built their winnings in steps over the early summer, working with other people. The court papers depict them as playing different tables, in different teams, with at least one trying to distract people working at the table during slides.

    Note Bene-

    Hmm, sounds kind of fishy to me.  These guys  would have had to be unbelievably good to pull that off for that long and get  away with that much money.  Maybe they did, but maybe it's another case of  a casino being a spoiled sport when someone manages to beat them long  term.  As many times as that casino has probably cheated others, maybe they  are just finally reaping a little bit, you think?

    Think about it!

    EddessaKnight

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      Posted: October 3, 2011, 9:54 am - IP Logged

      Note Bene-

      Hmm, sounds kind of fishy to me.  These guys  would have had to be unbelievably good to pull that off for that long and get  away with that much money.  Maybe they did, but maybe it's another case of  a casino being a spoiled sport when someone manages to beat them long  term.  As many times as that casino has probably cheated others, maybe they  are just finally reaping a little bit, you think?

      Think about it!

      EddessaKnight

      The two are suspected of working with several unidentified customers who placed bets or distracted dealers and are accused of pulling off their gambit by using an infrequently seen technique known as dice sliding."

      I"ll bet there were casino personal involved too because it's the boxman's job to tell the shooter to "hit the back wall" when the dice continue to fall short. Just the fact the players were making large bets on "12 and 11" should have tipped off the boxman. It looks like the casino reviewed the tapes after they finally caught the pair and found out they had won over $700,000 by sliding the dice.

      The boxman does have the option to call "no roll" so it looks like the casino is claiming the players cheated by distracting the boxman when it's his job not to be distracted. Wynn must be losing his touch if his casino procedure is that bad.

        eddessaknight's avatar - nw paladin.jpg
        LAS VEGAS
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        November 22, 2006
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        Posted: October 3, 2011, 5:51 pm - IP Logged

        The two are suspected of working with several unidentified customers who placed bets or distracted dealers and are accused of pulling off their gambit by using an infrequently seen technique known as dice sliding."

        I"ll bet there were casino personal involved too because it's the boxman's job to tell the shooter to "hit the back wall" when the dice continue to fall short. Just the fact the players were making large bets on "12 and 11" should have tipped off the boxman. It looks like the casino reviewed the tapes after they finally caught the pair and found out they had won over $700,000 by sliding the dice.

        The boxman does have the option to call "no roll" so it looks like the casino is claiming the players cheated by distracting the boxman when it's his job not to be distracted. Wynn must be losing his touch if his casino procedure is that bad.

        I Agree!

        Thanks Stack, good to hear your good points again

        L@@K long time since May for the casino to call "tilt", no roll or stop thief LOL.

        In your experience how long do casinos hold on to tapes?

        Possible they were considerable 'George'  ?

         

        Where the dice are always rolling >>>>>>

        EddessaKnight Note 

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          Posted: October 4, 2011, 8:19 pm - IP Logged

          I Agree!

          Thanks Stack, good to hear your good points again

          L@@K long time since May for the casino to call "tilt", no roll or stop thief LOL.

          In your experience how long do casinos hold on to tapes?

          Possible they were considerable 'George'  ?

           

          Where the dice are always rolling >>>>>>

          EddessaKnight Note 

          They probably keep all security tapes a week or more depending on the casino. For the gamblers in the Black Book or named on other security networks, it's probably much longer and that's probably why Wynn still had the tapes.

          I knew a guy that claimed he could make one die be "6" 80% of his rolls, but when he had the dice, the come out roll was 9 (6-3) and never neither die was above 4 until he finally rolled a 7 (6-1). I guess he just needed more practice, LOL!

            eddessaknight's avatar - nw paladin.jpg
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            Posted: October 5, 2011, 5:16 pm - IP Logged

            They probably keep all security tapes a week or more depending on the casino. For the gamblers in the Black Book or named on other security networks, it's probably much longer and that's probably why Wynn still had the tapes.

            I knew a guy that claimed he could make one die be "6" 80% of his rolls, but when he had the dice, the come out roll was 9 (6-3) and never neither die was above 4 until he finally rolled a 7 (6-1). I guess he just needed more practice, LOL!

            Undertsand why the casino would keep table action tapes longer. Surprsied that the current high tech eye in the sky aided, balck book, & abetted by Griffin Detective agency 'ID' not have the dynamic duo already visually  'made' (I D)

            Ny humble undertstanding that part of the pit's responsibility to asses player's action & if a table or player is not producing @ odds expectation then that is a flag to check out what went wrong with the game.....of course a major GEORGE $$$$ could be a major distraction all by himself - don't you think ???

            Currently at the G2E Tradeshow # Sands Convention but no body discussing this issue on the floor.

             

            G2E 2011: Gaming official says regulatory reform under way


            "The casino industry's leading trade organization has developed 10 recommendations for streamlining the gaming regulatory process without minimizing the integrity of the system. On the opening day"

             

            Next Shooter,

            EddessaKnight

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              Posted: October 7, 2011, 1:17 am - IP Logged

              Yeah, this story is real fishy.

              Any roll where one or both dice never tunbled would be a no roll and the shooter would be given one more chance. If it happened again they wouldn't be allowed to roll the dice, maybe not to play craps.

              When you're on the stick even some0one fiddleing with the dice to "set them" brings hit on you. HEY STICK, TELL HIM TO PICK THEM UP AND SHOOT THEM, NO SETTING THE DICE.

              Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

              Lep

              There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

                eddessaknight's avatar - nw paladin.jpg
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                Posted: October 8, 2011, 4:48 pm - IP Logged

                Yeah, this story is real fishy.

                Any roll where one or both dice never tunbled would be a no roll and the shooter would be given one more chance. If it happened again they wouldn't be allowed to roll the dice, maybe not to play craps.

                When you're on the stick even some0one fiddleing with the dice to "set them" brings hit on you. HEY STICK, TELL HIM TO PICK THEM UP AND SHOOT THEM, NO SETTING THE DICE.

                Hello Coin, Stack & gaming aficionados, et al-

                The Global Gaming Conference & Expo  closed at the Sands Convention Center and I have returned with more interesting related 'cat & mouse' stories to share.

                The first is a collusion tale from a Sands source about their new Marina Bay Sands in Singapore. Seems that they were just taking the wrapper off the reort when a note worthy first of it's kind; the casino survellance officer was charged with cheating the Sands out of $150,000 via collusion w/accomplices by past posting.  The high 'eye on the sky' official deciec pit boses by validating late bets his buddies wagered on SIC BO table. Players used sleight of hand to frop the bets after the game began.

                It's reported the cheating happend over 30X over a month's duration. How the insider scam was uncovered was not revealed but it's certain police will have more. Professional game scammers often make it a practice to hit new inexperienced properties and SIC BO is raely monitored like craps, roulette or baccarat.

                 

                Where the dice never stops rolling-

                EddessaKnight  Note

                  Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
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                  Posted: October 8, 2011, 5:38 pm - IP Logged

                  esdessaknight,

                  " How the insider scam was uncovered was not revealed but it's certain police will have more. Professional game scammers often make it a practice to hit new inexperienced properties and SIC BO is raely monitored like craps, roulette or baccarat....."

                  I would guess that despite all the trechnology it just might have been uncovered by an "eye in the rug". When something is suspicious the casinos put surveillance on the floor.

                  Just a word on new properties, the casinos know the cheats show up, including employees. This is why whenever a new joint opens they always over-hire, and then fire.

                  Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

                  Lep

                  There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

                    eddessaknight's avatar - nw paladin.jpg
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                    Posted: October 9, 2011, 5:44 pm - IP Logged

                    esdessaknight,

                    " How the insider scam was uncovered was not revealed but it's certain police will have more. Professional game scammers often make it a practice to hit new inexperienced properties and SIC BO is raely monitored like craps, roulette or baccarat....."

                    I would guess that despite all the trechnology it just might have been uncovered by an "eye in the rug". When something is suspicious the casinos put surveillance on the floor.

                    Just a word on new properties, the casinos know the cheats show up, including employees. This is why whenever a new joint opens they always over-hire, and then fire.

                    "eye in the rug" ~Coin

                    Do appreciate these insider "insights" and do recall when camera eyes were installed into manaquin heads in depatment stores for xtra eyes on their fleeing merchandise.

                    Another scam/collusion story this one on Electronic Roulette. Cheaters have found ways of compromising semi auto roulette games like the very popular 'Rapid Roulette' stations. In this case involving a a mchine with a real ball & wheel, a supervisor actively colluded with a gambler & hit a button intended to change a mistaken number outcome when the ball droped. Sometimes mfg exhibitors eager to make new sales, overlook machine design flaws or loopholes making them susceptable to gaffs by scammers or game manipulation by uethical croups.

                     

                    Where the wheel is always spinning......

                    EddessaKnight Note

                      LottoGuyBC's avatar - Lottery-050.jpg
                      British Columbia
                      Canada
                      Member #116101
                      September 4, 2011
                      4033 Posts
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                      Posted: October 10, 2011, 6:43 am - IP Logged

                      apparently Leo Fernandez is a member of Team PokerStars and Veronica Dabul is a former sponsored player of PokerStars

                      another black eye for Poker Players?

                      Thinking of...

                      "You have to be in it to win it!"

                        Avatar
                        Kentucky
                        United States
                        Member #32652
                        February 14, 2006
                        7308 Posts
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                        Posted: October 10, 2011, 10:41 am - IP Logged

                        apparently Leo Fernandez is a member of Team PokerStars and Veronica Dabul is a former sponsored player of PokerStars

                        another black eye for Poker Players?

                        Thinking of...

                        Leo is a member of Team PokerStars though not exactly a famous name.

                        Greg Raymer was a high profile member and quit his affiliation a month or two before the chips hit the fan on April 15. Being a lawyer, maybe he questioned the legality of U.S. player accounts. PokerStars did payoff all the U.S. players so their problems are nothing compared to Full Tilt.

                        Steve Wynn formed a partnership with PokerStars for U.S. online poker when Congress ever gets around to passing the bill. Don't know the affect of Fernandez will have on that deal.

                          eddessaknight's avatar - nw paladin.jpg
                          LAS VEGAS
                          United States
                          Member #47729
                          November 22, 2006
                          4495 Posts
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                          Posted: October 11, 2011, 3:28 pm - IP Logged

                          Leo is a member of Team PokerStars though not exactly a famous name.

                          Greg Raymer was a high profile member and quit his affiliation a month or two before the chips hit the fan on April 15. Being a lawyer, maybe he questioned the legality of U.S. player accounts. PokerStars did payoff all the U.S. players so their problems are nothing compared to Full Tilt.

                          Steve Wynn formed a partnership with PokerStars for U.S. online poker when Congress ever gets around to passing the bill. Don't know the affect of Fernandez will have on that deal.

                          Thanks again to our generous gentlemen of the gaming jury, with all the uncertainties we know for sure that dealers and pit bosses come and go but it's the players stay on forever >>>>>

                          Next sucker.......  Wink

                           

                          Fortuna

                          EddessaKnight Note