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unfair practices and odds

Topic closed. 6 replies. Last post 3 years ago by tj47.

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near hollywood
United States
Member #147775
October 12, 2013
4 Posts
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Posted: November 3, 2013, 4:36 pm - IP Logged

Hi !

I have been reading all the posts on the CA scratchers and have been doing some reading.

I think that the practices of most retailers hinders customers from winning. Almost every place I have gone to, has a clerk or owner that watches the sales and wins and losses on the tickets. Whether its a 7-11 or a reg liquor store, there are plenty of tickets that the retailer scratched themselves , most likely finding the larger winning tickets.

I was thrilled about the second chance draws and pulled tickets from the trash with the retailer permission. 

At first I was confused when I found tickets that had not been scratched or the bar code revealed but just the serial number on the ticket all in sequencial order. I figured out that the only person that could do that was the retailer. So I got curious and wondered how many places in my local area did that...and not wanting to name names...as I am not sure it is okay to do that....in the hollywood area.vine and melrose all nearby places do this. As well as ventura blvd, toluca lake, burbank, glendale..

Even at 7-11, I saw clerks doing this.

Then last week there were no more losing ttckets and still arent any. I began to wonder and asked around. Apparently, the ca lottery put an announcement on the website for retailers to tell their customers of the second chance drawings and what has happened is the majority of retailers take the losing tickets and enter them in for themselves and family , friends etc.

Then I saw a promotional poster that said if you buy 2 $20 tickets you get a free tshirt....well I called around and found not one place that gave away tshirts.i believe the retailers kept them for themselves.

I thought the vending machines were okay...but discovered that after checking the packets of tickets the believed losers are put into the vending machines.

The first 9 and last nine tickets of the $10 and $20 packets were removed prior to being put Iin the vending machines.

I the consumer is led to believe that the odds are correctly stated and the same for everyone.

I do not believe this is so...given that the average good return on scratchers is 50%, if I factor in the retailers practices, I think the return drops to 30% or less, meaning the customer buys all the losers.

And now that the majority of retailers are collecting the losing tickets, it means they have a greater advantage of winning the second chance than the average player.

I confirmed this with a few places where I am friends with the clerks, and all said that the owners are collecting the losing tickets.

The odds printed on each ticket are a mistatement in my opinion because it is the odds if all tickets were distributed and available for purchase...the odds do not reflect that millions or thousands of tickets that are currently stored.

The only way the odds printed on the ticket tobe accurate would be if all tickets were distributed.

I think the only people really winning on scratchers are the retailers and the ca lottery.

The retailers get a commision on the sales and wins of tickets and these percentages allow them to search and scratch tickets for winners.

The ca lottery posted a note that they are developing a players reward program....I bet if the ca lottery checked how many retailers and their associates have entered the max ticket entrys in the second chance they would discover what I am saying is true.

One place on melrose by hudson, the man scratches his own tickets until he hits the big winner more than$50 and then sells the rest.

The machines at grocery stores have the tickets gone through by whomever sstocks them. And recently, the automatic dispensing ma hines have had a glitch where you put in $20 and get $10 worth of tickets and the machine keeps $10. It just disappears. Three machines in my areahad a sign on it..out of order because of this. I spoke with the manager at each placeand they all said the same thing.

All in all, the ca lottery website is focused on developing marketing techniques to convince the consumer they odss are fair and they have a fair chance of winning but the reality is not so. I think the people of ca need to know this...they are focused on developing more techniques to raise their revenues....

I have not seen any memos that hint at regulating the scratchers so that the odds are the same for everyone or that the players will win.

The lotteries argument that when a game ends and top prizes have not been claimed because the ca lottery claims that people threw out the winning top prizes. If this istrue, then it means that the retailers collecting the losing tickets will find these winners.

Something just does not add up when I consider all these facts.  I conclude that I have more chance to lose bybuying scratchers than winning.

What do you think?

    RedStang's avatar - tallman zps6gf4inoc.jpg
    NY
    United States
    Member #121961
    January 21, 2012
    3157 Posts
    Offline
    Posted: November 3, 2013, 4:58 pm - IP Logged

    Never believed in odds. When it says 1:3, does that mean the same pack or spread out across the state. There is a shirt posted under ca scratchers(page 48).

      Jon D's avatar - calotterylogo
      Los Angeles, California
      United States
      Member #103813
      January 5, 2011
      1530 Posts
      Offline
      Posted: November 4, 2013, 9:42 am - IP Logged

      Hi !

      I have been reading all the posts on the CA scratchers and have been doing some reading.

      I think that the practices of most retailers hinders customers from winning. Almost every place I have gone to, has a clerk or owner that watches the sales and wins and losses on the tickets. Whether its a 7-11 or a reg liquor store, there are plenty of tickets that the retailer scratched themselves , most likely finding the larger winning tickets.

      I was thrilled about the second chance draws and pulled tickets from the trash with the retailer permission. 

      At first I was confused when I found tickets that had not been scratched or the bar code revealed but just the serial number on the ticket all in sequencial order. I figured out that the only person that could do that was the retailer. So I got curious and wondered how many places in my local area did that...and not wanting to name names...as I am not sure it is okay to do that....in the hollywood area.vine and melrose all nearby places do this. As well as ventura blvd, toluca lake, burbank, glendale..

      Even at 7-11, I saw clerks doing this.

      Then last week there were no more losing ttckets and still arent any. I began to wonder and asked around. Apparently, the ca lottery put an announcement on the website for retailers to tell their customers of the second chance drawings and what has happened is the majority of retailers take the losing tickets and enter them in for themselves and family , friends etc.

      Then I saw a promotional poster that said if you buy 2 $20 tickets you get a free tshirt....well I called around and found not one place that gave away tshirts.i believe the retailers kept them for themselves.

      I thought the vending machines were okay...but discovered that after checking the packets of tickets the believed losers are put into the vending machines.

      The first 9 and last nine tickets of the $10 and $20 packets were removed prior to being put Iin the vending machines.

      I the consumer is led to believe that the odds are correctly stated and the same for everyone.

      I do not believe this is so...given that the average good return on scratchers is 50%, if I factor in the retailers practices, I think the return drops to 30% or less, meaning the customer buys all the losers.

      And now that the majority of retailers are collecting the losing tickets, it means they have a greater advantage of winning the second chance than the average player.

      I confirmed this with a few places where I am friends with the clerks, and all said that the owners are collecting the losing tickets.

      The odds printed on each ticket are a mistatement in my opinion because it is the odds if all tickets were distributed and available for purchase...the odds do not reflect that millions or thousands of tickets that are currently stored.

      The only way the odds printed on the ticket tobe accurate would be if all tickets were distributed.

      I think the only people really winning on scratchers are the retailers and the ca lottery.

      The retailers get a commision on the sales and wins of tickets and these percentages allow them to search and scratch tickets for winners.

      The ca lottery posted a note that they are developing a players reward program....I bet if the ca lottery checked how many retailers and their associates have entered the max ticket entrys in the second chance they would discover what I am saying is true.

      One place on melrose by hudson, the man scratches his own tickets until he hits the big winner more than$50 and then sells the rest.

      The machines at grocery stores have the tickets gone through by whomever sstocks them. And recently, the automatic dispensing ma hines have had a glitch where you put in $20 and get $10 worth of tickets and the machine keeps $10. It just disappears. Three machines in my areahad a sign on it..out of order because of this. I spoke with the manager at each placeand they all said the same thing.

      All in all, the ca lottery website is focused on developing marketing techniques to convince the consumer they odss are fair and they have a fair chance of winning but the reality is not so. I think the people of ca need to know this...they are focused on developing more techniques to raise their revenues....

      I have not seen any memos that hint at regulating the scratchers so that the odds are the same for everyone or that the players will win.

      The lotteries argument that when a game ends and top prizes have not been claimed because the ca lottery claims that people threw out the winning top prizes. If this istrue, then it means that the retailers collecting the losing tickets will find these winners.

      Something just does not add up when I consider all these facts.  I conclude that I have more chance to lose bybuying scratchers than winning.

      What do you think?

      Wow, that's a very long post, I'll just address the high points:

      Clerk advantage - Yes, a clerk playing Scratchers can have an unfair advantage. If they are monitoring the redemptions and then win chasing and/or hawking you, they can deplete the rolls of winners and leave less for you. As I mentioned in a previous post if you see clerks playing, don't play there or use a different insurgent strategy. I don't think clerks should be playing but that should be a store/owner policy. The lottery don't care as long as it doesn't negatively affect sales.

      2nd Chance (Replay) - Yes, dumpster diggers are common. I notice different old men coming around to stores regularly digging out the trash can of Scratchers, and also see some clerks do the same. They look for tossed away winners, but also may enter into replay 2nd chance drawing. CA Lottery made a change a while ago and limited 2nd chance submisisons to 1000 per calendar month. I think that was a good move, as regular players like me were at an unfair advantage in the drawings against dumpster diggers who did not have a wagered stake in those entries.

      Scratch Odds - The published odds are pretty much what you should receive, both the return and the hit rate. I know because I track every purchase and monitor results in great detail. But if you want to get technical, yes, the wording on the Scratch ticket becomes somewhat misleading as tickets are sold. That is why states like Florida have printed little asterisks and a disclaimer at the bottom of all scratch tickets. See example FL Lottery ticket:

      http://www.lotterypost.com/thread/258655/3310597

      Asterisks next to every claim, like "Win up to $3,000,000 *" or "over $160,000,000 in prizes *" both become untrue at some point. As the disclaimer on the bottom says, "* Prizes, including the top prizes, are subject to availability at the time of ticket purchase."

      I'm sure if you complain loud enough, CA lottery will be forced to print the same asterisks and disclaimers as FL lottery. Will this change the situation at all? No. It's just to assuage the distressed consumer.

        Avatar
        New Member
        near hollywood
        United States
        Member #147775
        October 12, 2013
        4 Posts
        Offline
        Posted: November 4, 2013, 1:19 pm - IP Logged

        Sorry for the long post....thanks for the reply...just had to voice my concerns...thanks for the tshirt tip....

          Avatar
          San Gabriel, CA
          United States
          Member #134310
          October 24, 2012
          85 Posts
          Offline
          Posted: November 4, 2013, 2:51 pm - IP Logged

          Sorry for the long post....thanks for the reply...just had to voice my concerns...thanks for the tshirt tip....

          Hey lucky,

           

          I received about 6 t-shirts during the promotion. I even turned some down. I believe they were giving them out only at 7/11 stores.

            Avatar
            Skippack, PA
            United States
            Member #139391
            February 21, 2013
            87 Posts
            Offline
            Posted: November 7, 2013, 1:35 am - IP Logged

            At ScratchSmarter, we are very leery of any merchant selling lottery tickets over the counter - particularly the mini-marts, beer distributors and cigarette shops where the clerks have nothing better to do with their spare time than to keep an eye on the lottery games they're selling. 

            It's really unfair to be targeted by these vultures where they're able to increase their odds of winning simply by observing which tickets are winners & which are losers by dealing with the customers buying the tickets!

            So, if you can't buy tickets over the counter that leaves you with buying them at unmanned vending machines.  That's even more frustrating because those machines tend to only have a few of the brand new games OR the dead games (where all of the top prizes have been awarded).

            At ScratchSmarter, we provide a free analysis report for almost every state, telling you the games to play and the games to avoid.  But that's only the start - you really need to find the retailers you can trust and pay attention to what is going on in that store when you're buying your tickets.

            We never recommend scratching off your tickets in front of the store clerks.  And if you win on a ticket - take it to another retailer to cash it in. 

            We say - keep the clerks in the dark - don't let them know if you won or lost. It will lessen their chances of cherry picking the winning tickets from all of the regular players.  This is in your control - you wouldn't show someone your hand in a poker game would you?  So don't let anyone else know if you won or lost on a ticket!

            Now, here's the good news:  at ScratchSmarter, we follow EVERY news story across the country about every big scratch off winner.  In the last 6 months, we've only come across 1 news story about a store employee winning a big prize.  However, the news tend to NOT cover the second chance drawing winners - so, I believe your concern about unfair odds is VERY valid. As for the stories on big instant winners - most of the stories tell us that the average lottery player is the one who wins big and not a store employee. 

            A more common news story, however, is about the store clerks ripping people off by taking their big winning tickets and letting the customer think they won a small amount instead of a big prize.  This is because the winner trusts the clerk to check their ticket.  The winner usually has a hard time telling how much they won, so they ask the clerk to tell them what the prize amount is.  The clerk tells them they won a small prize and gives them a small cash amount, and then they get a friend to cash in the ticket as the real winner.  We only know about the times this happens when they're caught, arrested & a news story comes out......There's no telling how many times it really happens and the store employee isn't caught!

            OUR ADVICE:  NEVER ask the person who sold you the ticket to verify a winning ticket! If you think you won, go somewhere else to cash it in or use a self-serve 2D bar scanner to check it yourself.  AND, ALWAYS SIGN YOUR TICKET just to be safe - this helps ensure that no one else can cash it in.

             

            Good luck & I hope this info helps you to ScratchSmarter!

              tj47's avatar - Lottery-013.jpg

              United States
              Member #110282
              April 29, 2011
              34 Posts
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              Posted: November 12, 2013, 11:19 pm - IP Logged

              I played a few scratchers years ago. The odds of winning with them are so bad that i will never touch them again. If i am in the mood to gamble, i will just go to my local casino and try to win some money there. In my opinion your odds of winning are way better at a casino than playing scratchers.