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Unclaimed Jackpot Prizes

Topic closed. 12 replies. Last post 4 months ago by Linking.

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United States
Member #167585
July 21, 2015
55 Posts
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Posted: June 19, 2016, 11:04 pm - IP Logged

You have 3 possibilities of what happened and 2 are very shady:

  1.  The ticket was thrown away.
  2. The lottery closed the game because they are allowed if all tickets have been sent out.
  3. The lotteries are using shady practices and in this case see below:

 

This is something that the lotteries should be sued upon, because it's a loophole that can allow a lottery to legally destroy jackpot tickets.  This is something I had to do a lot of research to figure out how exactly all the top prizes were not being claimed.

 

In my state when games are pulled from the vending machines they are left activated.  This also applies to any business that looses their lottery license or a business that changes a corporate name.  They come pick up the tickets and destroy all of the half activated rolls.  The reason they are left activated is due to the fact that rolls are activated/deactivated per "roll" and their excuse is they have to leave them activated to allow any winning tickets previously sold on the roll to be claimed. They use the excuse of lazy accounting for leaving the rest of the roll activated.  They then take them to the warehouse and shred them.  Once they are shredded then are then incinerated.  The obvious problems with this are tenfold.  If a jackpot ticket is among those not bought off the roll it is destroyed and left on the books.  The problem with this is that it's illegal especially in our state to misrepresent the amount of remaining jackpot prizes. 

http://www.wthr.com/story/5898560/hoosier-lottery-faces-lawsuit-over-scratch-off-tickets  By law they have to post the amount of remaining prizes on the books and they lost this lawsuit, because of an accounting error on the number of prizes remaining.  This was back in 2007.  The state refunded all money in this case.

The reason I figured out that the lottery was likely corrupt was due to this case.

http://www.wthr.com/story/28880187/three-hoosier-lottery-millionaires-accused-of-stealing-the-winning-tickets

Basically if you read between the lines on this story if the lotteries don't want a prize to be claimed they could "potentially" send a jackpot ticket to a vending machine in the basement of your local sports arena knowing the sales of this machine are very low so likely hood of the prize ever getting claimed before the roll of tickets being sold is very low.  Long story short the lottery sent a jackpot ticket to a store that was going to loose their lottery license.  The reason I believe they knew to investigate this couple was the fact they knew where this prize was going and intentionally sent their in the hopes the roll would be activated and not sold so it could be destroyed.  The irony in the hole thing is that the state impounded all the winnings, however there should be a counter suit to the state for the prize being put back in the game or the money awarded to the players of the game.

One last shady thing lotteries are doing to increase sales is this:

https://www.hoosierlottery.com/games/scratch-offs/current-games/2121-hot-5s-hot-streak

Closing games after selling almost half the tickets with all top prizes remaining.  The reason they are legally allowed to do this is to a little known law in our state about sales numbers.  If they presale the front of all the pools and release enough games they can decrease sales to a point on this game they are allowed by law to close the game.  The lottery controls for the most part what games the stores get based on their number of ticket displays. The reason I figured this out was due to the fact a holiday game was closed with 7/10 top prizes remaining and about 20% of tickets remaining.  There needs to be a complete investigation of these lotteries, because with a license to print money thier is a great need for accountability and with most of the above processes unknown states can continue to boost their numbers, but hurt themselves in the long run.  There is no explanation that can be given for the game above being closed with almost half the tickets sold with none of the top prizes ever being released.

 

Post your thoughts.

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    South Carolina
    United States
    Member #18322
    July 9, 2005
    1704 Posts
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    Posted: June 19, 2016, 11:33 pm - IP Logged

    You have 3 possibilities of what happened and 2 are very shady:

    1.  The ticket was thrown away.
    2. The lottery closed the game because they are allowed if all tickets have been sent out.
    3. The lotteries are using shady practices and in this case see below:

     

    This is something that the lotteries should be sued upon, because it's a loophole that can allow a lottery to legally destroy jackpot tickets.  This is something I had to do a lot of research to figure out how exactly all the top prizes were not being claimed.

     

    In my state when games are pulled from the vending machines they are left activated.  This also applies to any business that looses their lottery license or a business that changes a corporate name.  They come pick up the tickets and destroy all of the half activated rolls.  The reason they are left activated is due to the fact that rolls are activated/deactivated per "roll" and their excuse is they have to leave them activated to allow any winning tickets previously sold on the roll to be claimed. They use the excuse of lazy accounting for leaving the rest of the roll activated.  They then take them to the warehouse and shred them.  Once they are shredded then are then incinerated.  The obvious problems with this are tenfold.  If a jackpot ticket is among those not bought off the roll it is destroyed and left on the books.  The problem with this is that it's illegal especially in our state to misrepresent the amount of remaining jackpot prizes. 

    http://www.wthr.com/story/5898560/hoosier-lottery-faces-lawsuit-over-scratch-off-tickets  By law they have to post the amount of remaining prizes on the books and they lost this lawsuit, because of an accounting error on the number of prizes remaining.  This was back in 2007.  The state refunded all money in this case.

    The reason I figured out that the lottery was likely corrupt was due to this case.

    http://www.wthr.com/story/28880187/three-hoosier-lottery-millionaires-accused-of-stealing-the-winning-tickets

    Basically if you read between the lines on this story if the lotteries don't want a prize to be claimed they could "potentially" send a jackpot ticket to a vending machine in the basement of your local sports arena knowing the sales of this machine are very low so likely hood of the prize ever getting claimed before the roll of tickets being sold is very low.  Long story short the lottery sent a jackpot ticket to a store that was going to loose their lottery license.  The reason I believe they knew to investigate this couple was the fact they knew where this prize was going and intentionally sent their in the hopes the roll would be activated and not sold so it could be destroyed.  The irony in the hole thing is that the state impounded all the winnings, however there should be a counter suit to the state for the prize being put back in the game or the money awarded to the players of the game.

    One last shady thing lotteries are doing to increase sales is this:

    https://www.hoosierlottery.com/games/scratch-offs/current-games/2121-hot-5s-hot-streak

    Closing games after selling almost half the tickets with all top prizes remaining.  The reason they are legally allowed to do this is to a little known law in our state about sales numbers.  If they presale the front of all the pools and release enough games they can decrease sales to a point on this game they are allowed by law to close the game.  The lottery controls for the most part what games the stores get based on their number of ticket displays. The reason I figured this out was due to the fact a holiday game was closed with 7/10 top prizes remaining and about 20% of tickets remaining.  There needs to be a complete investigation of these lotteries, because with a license to print money thier is a great need for accountability and with most of the above processes unknown states can continue to boost their numbers, but hurt themselves in the long run.  There is no explanation that can be given for the game above being closed with almost half the tickets sold with none of the top prizes ever being released.

     

    Post your thoughts.

    Hoosiers ...

    Are you specifically referring to the state of Indiana, or to any state in general ???

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      Florida
      United States
      Member #172872
      February 7, 2016
      597 Posts
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      Posted: June 19, 2016, 11:51 pm - IP Logged

      Zebekyia, interesting read. You live in NY, right? We have had similar shady lottery practices happen in FL. For example, one of our scratchoff game called 100X had 5 $1million prizes remaining, and 1 $5 million prize left unclaimed. The game is ending soon, but is unavailable across the entire state.

       

      As far as shady practices, one of our holiday games called $2,000,000 Holiday Gifts is still around in short supply.  I have went to a food store and heard from the retailer that the lottery rep came in and took the remaining of their open book.One of our LP members actually hit one of the jackpots, and said at the store he purchased the winning ticket a rep came in to take the stored books as well as the open book (however, the cashier insisted on keeping the open book which had the big winner). I can understand lotteries shifting around unopen books to locations that will generate more sales, but I cannot understand removing an open book of a game. I imagine this is due to the game generating low sales, and them wanting to push their newer games. 

       

      You're right that there are loopholes that states can use to manipulate the game's odds. For accountability, states need to adopt some type of procedures for properly scanning out any/every ticket before destroying a ticket, and reinstating a jackpot/other claim tickets for any that are destroyed.

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        United States
        Member #167585
        July 21, 2015
        55 Posts
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        Posted: June 20, 2016, 1:20 am - IP Logged

        Hoosiers ...

        Are you specifically referring to the state of Indiana, or to any state in general ???

        All of them as this happens everywhere, because of why?  The tickets in most states are now distrubuted by the same exact firm.  Most state lotteries no longer control the distrubution and it's controlled by IGT and formerly GTech.

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          California
          United States
          Member #173360
          February 28, 2016
          39 Posts
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          Posted: June 20, 2016, 10:32 pm - IP Logged

          Do they know that top jackpot winning scartcher prizes are sitting in store's X or vending machine X's inventory and they intentionally conduct a recall that includes those  locations?

          Or do they just recall the tickets in general and it happens that they also recalled those top prizes?

          Either way it's shady, but the first case is waaaay more unfair

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            United States
            Member #167585
            July 21, 2015
            55 Posts
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            Posted: June 21, 2016, 5:44 pm - IP Logged

            Do they know that top jackpot winning scartcher prizes are sitting in store's X or vending machine X's inventory and they intentionally conduct a recall that includes those  locations?

            Or do they just recall the tickets in general and it happens that they also recalled those top prizes?

            Either way it's shady, but the first case is waaaay more unfair

            It would be super easy to look at the sales history of a store on 30 dollar tickets send them 5 books of tickets including one of the top prizes knowing full well that they "based on historical sales would never sell the tickets."  I think people are naive if they think the lotteries or persons at lotteries don't know where the tickets are being sent. 

             

            I do know that the security department is notified when a jackpot roll is activated, but this practice might have changed. 

             

            If lotteries have all the tickets in a database for your to query with a scanning machine or lottery app you know full well there are multiple people with access to said database.  Yes, the look ups might be encrypted, however the DB that stores the manifest won't be. 

            Also, with the way tickets are pooled the lottery is already "legally" manipulating when a prize is sent out. 

             

            If you look at closed games historically you'll see a large favor to games that have been closed with a lower percentage of tickets remaining vs. jackpot tickets remaining.  You'll actually see very few games in which they sold all of the tickets.  I wonder why this is?  Closing a game always in their favor is legal in their eye's.  Hey lets make our margins a bit bigger and there's no one to stop us.

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              California
              United States
              Member #173360
              February 28, 2016
              39 Posts
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              Posted: June 22, 2016, 4:10 am - IP Logged

              Whats the purpose of the security department being notified of jackpot roll activation?

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                United States
                Member #167585
                July 21, 2015
                55 Posts
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                Posted: June 22, 2016, 10:19 am - IP Logged

                Whats the purpose of the security department being notified of jackpot roll activation?

                Not sure, but there are people who have access to the manifests and they are typically security officials.  These days these are kept in databases and not on paper, so anything that was a DBA or in security could have access to all the games and where the tickets are.

                 

                It seems you can find this story anymore, but I did find a reference in a couple of places.

                http://www.ripleynews.com/2004/04-11-11_lottery.html

                  Think's avatar - lightbulb
                  Marquette, MI
                  United States
                  Member #20541
                  August 20, 2005
                  705 Posts
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                  Posted: July 2, 2016, 5:29 pm - IP Logged

                  You have 3 possibilities of what happened and 2 are very shady:

                  1.  The ticket was thrown away.
                  2. The lottery closed the game because they are allowed if all tickets have been sent out.
                  3. The lotteries are using shady practices and in this case see below:

                   

                  This is something that the lotteries should be sued upon, because it's a loophole that can allow a lottery to legally destroy jackpot tickets.  This is something I had to do a lot of research to figure out how exactly all the top prizes were not being claimed.

                   

                  In my state when games are pulled from the vending machines they are left activated.  This also applies to any business that looses their lottery license or a business that changes a corporate name.  They come pick up the tickets and destroy all of the half activated rolls.  The reason they are left activated is due to the fact that rolls are activated/deactivated per "roll" and their excuse is they have to leave them activated to allow any winning tickets previously sold on the roll to be claimed. They use the excuse of lazy accounting for leaving the rest of the roll activated.  They then take them to the warehouse and shred them.  Once they are shredded then are then incinerated.  The obvious problems with this are tenfold.  If a jackpot ticket is among those not bought off the roll it is destroyed and left on the books.  The problem with this is that it's illegal especially in our state to misrepresent the amount of remaining jackpot prizes. 

                  http://www.wthr.com/story/5898560/hoosier-lottery-faces-lawsuit-over-scratch-off-tickets  By law they have to post the amount of remaining prizes on the books and they lost this lawsuit, because of an accounting error on the number of prizes remaining.  This was back in 2007.  The state refunded all money in this case.

                  The reason I figured out that the lottery was likely corrupt was due to this case.

                  http://www.wthr.com/story/28880187/three-hoosier-lottery-millionaires-accused-of-stealing-the-winning-tickets

                  Basically if you read between the lines on this story if the lotteries don't want a prize to be claimed they could "potentially" send a jackpot ticket to a vending machine in the basement of your local sports arena knowing the sales of this machine are very low so likely hood of the prize ever getting claimed before the roll of tickets being sold is very low.  Long story short the lottery sent a jackpot ticket to a store that was going to loose their lottery license.  The reason I believe they knew to investigate this couple was the fact they knew where this prize was going and intentionally sent their in the hopes the roll would be activated and not sold so it could be destroyed.  The irony in the hole thing is that the state impounded all the winnings, however there should be a counter suit to the state for the prize being put back in the game or the money awarded to the players of the game.

                  One last shady thing lotteries are doing to increase sales is this:

                  https://www.hoosierlottery.com/games/scratch-offs/current-games/2121-hot-5s-hot-streak

                  Closing games after selling almost half the tickets with all top prizes remaining.  The reason they are legally allowed to do this is to a little known law in our state about sales numbers.  If they presale the front of all the pools and release enough games they can decrease sales to a point on this game they are allowed by law to close the game.  The lottery controls for the most part what games the stores get based on their number of ticket displays. The reason I figured this out was due to the fact a holiday game was closed with 7/10 top prizes remaining and about 20% of tickets remaining.  There needs to be a complete investigation of these lotteries, because with a license to print money thier is a great need for accountability and with most of the above processes unknown states can continue to boost their numbers, but hurt themselves in the long run.  There is no explanation that can be given for the game above being closed with almost half the tickets sold with none of the top prizes ever being released.

                   

                  Post your thoughts.

                  Yep, look at the Michigan web site and look at the $5 "Cadillac Cash" Ticket.  Look at the remaining top prizes and then look at the remaining lower prizes.

                  Look at the Michigan $1 "Cash for Life" ticket prizes and you will see that it is obviously past due also.  There are others but those are two examples.

                  The law should be that if they pull tickets that are not going back in circulation then they have to pull any prizes from that pack from the remaining prizes listed on the website otherwise, yes, they are committing fraud.

                  "The American Voter is too Stupid..."   Jonathan Gruber Obamacare Architect

                  "There is no sin except stupidity" Oscar Wilde

                  https://books.google.com/books?id=apm21IcqhmcC&pg=PP6&lpg=PP6&dq=americans+can+tolerate+just+about+anything+except+stupidity&source=bl&ots=tq9QUeP46j&sig=qXfXEz-wh_yUQSsE8DZG0ZjABls&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwil8YSjmuDPAhWF7IMKHV11A0kQ6AEIUzAI#v=onepage&q=americans%20can%20tolerate%20just%20about%20anything%20except%20stupidity&f=false

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                    ozone park
                    United States
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                    December 15, 2007
                    274 Posts
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                    Posted: July 18, 2016, 11:51 pm - IP Logged

                    Of you look back to ALL my posts going back 5 years I have been complaining about this here in NY LOttery because they do the exact same thing.

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                      ozone park
                      United States
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                      December 15, 2007
                      274 Posts
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                      Posted: July 18, 2016, 11:53 pm - IP Logged

                      And I am not sure about anywhere else but here in NY the lottery rules are made by the politicians and the politicians only. ALL the rules are made up in senate committees and they tell lottery what to do.

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                        United States
                        Member #167585
                        July 21, 2015
                        55 Posts
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                        Posted: July 20, 2016, 12:20 am - IP Logged

                        And I am not sure about anywhere else but here in NY the lottery rules are made by the politicians and the politicians only. ALL the rules are made up in senate committees and they tell lottery what to do.

                        The rules would be made up by lobbyists who pass them on to the politicians.  Show me a politician who knows anything remotely about the lottery.  The only lobbyists being whom "the distributors".  Checks and balances might be there, but they are no where near transparent to the public.  If they wanted to clear it up be transparent and if they aren't you can assume there is a reason they aren't transparent about it.

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                          Brooklyn New York
                          United States
                          Member #176360
                          August 1, 2016
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                          Posted: August 2, 2016, 7:58 pm - IP Logged

                          There is a way to overcome the top prize and secondary price being downsize. If you look at the prize report all first price might be claim and still secondary prize unpaid, how many we have to look at the report for that game. There are also all secondary prize paid and still at least one top prize yet to be paid. How is that conspiring? Well look at it this way. You can't recall every single copy because it would be spread around to 18,000 retailer and some retailer has lotto machine. Even if so it would taken some time to do so. There has to be some stores that has games that is about to expire 1-6 months and still have jackpot left over. If they recall games they probably wouldn't need to know where the jackpot is located. Why is that? It is because they always have the upper hand. Old tickets generally stay there for long time. A 10$ has 50 tickets and 5$ has 100 and 2$ has 250 tickets. If you see an old game, they probably has a huge amount of tickets left over. For example if 100 tickets are in 5$ and there is 70 tickets left over it would cause you to gamble 350$ to find out if the Jackpot is in that book. A few is going to do that because they like to place Jackpot in mostly low numbers, making you play out the whole book. By the time you play 20 tickets without any winner, you probably won't go on and don't even try to take a bad hand into consideration. For instance I found 28 cards of Frosty cash and play it out with my friend, and total we got back was 100$. It shows you that if you don't hit the jackpot, a big sum lost is to be taken out of your wallet. The smartest thing to do is look at the book number, this is where you gain upper hand. 2 years from the release of a new games would probably tell you that if the last Jackpot is out there it probably would not be low number books. If you find one, then to your knowledge, you probably would not need to play as the Jackpot most likely would not be there. How do you know, you don't you predict the outcome of something to your advantage. 2 years from now a 4 jackpot game that has 1 jackpot left means that 3 has been won and if you know the hit rate you multiply that by 3 and there you get a book number range to hit that jackpot. It could be within 3-4 jackpot range but definitely not 1 because that means it is a low book number which hasn't been selling.

                          REMEMBER DON'T GO BY THE NUMBER, GO BY THE BOOK NUMBER! THIS IS WHERE THE TRICK IS...because people go by the number instead of the book number. That is what they want you to do. Some stores don't sell consistent books so if you see 37 doesn't mean there is 37 tickets left over! But if you go by the book number, you guaranteed that every single card is that book number. I hope this helps.