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AllenB

California
United States
Member #167,120
June 27, 2015
1,777 Posts
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Dec 17, 2020, 12:41 pm

I have a question. One that has most likely been posted many times and could have addressed this question. “What should a Wheel Do and When should you Wheel in your selection Process?

Much has been written about Bluskov's Wheels. Honestly, I have never used a Buskov Wheel. I have not studied the Theory behind them and I know nothing about how successful they are. My understanding is that they reduce the number of combinations while guaranteeing that a certain number of your Filtered Pool will be present in each Combination. Sounds like a Filter. One that yields only a 3 or 4 Hit when you might have had all 5 in your Pool.

The second part of my question is When Do you Wheel? Filtering of some kind will have been used to get that “Pool” of numbers that go into the Wheel. If Wheeling is the last thing that you do, can you afford to play the Sets? If not do you apply a Combination Filter like an Odd Even or High Low Count to get the inventory down? If you have to reduce the Wheeled output with a Series of Combination Filters doesn’t it make sense to see every Combination Possible from your Wheel? I know, it’s all about the Inventory and Buskovs Wheels are designed to reduce that. But, at what Cost. How many times are you successful at finding all 5 Numbers of a Fantasy Five Game, only to see Buscov throw out a 5 Hit while guaranteeing you a 3 or 4 Hit?
Stack47

Kentucky
United States
Member #32,651
February 14, 2006
10,528 Posts
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Dec 17, 2020, 4:48 pm

Quote: Originally posted by AllenB on Dec 17, 2020
I have a question. One that has most likely been posted many times and could have addressed this question. “What should a Wheel Do and When should you Wheel in your selection Process?

Much has been written about Bluskov's Wheels. Honestly, I have never used a Buskov Wheel. I have not studied the Theory behind them and I know nothing about how successful they are. My understanding is that they reduce the number of combinations while guaranteeing that a certain number of your Filtered Pool will be present in each Combination. Sounds like a Filter. One that yields only a 3 or 4 Hit when you might have had all 5 in your Pool.

The second part of my question is When Do you Wheel? Filtering of some kind will have been used to get that “Pool” of numbers that go into the Wheel. If Wheeling is the last thing that you do, can you afford to play the Sets? If not do you apply a Combination Filter like an Odd Even or High Low Count to get the inventory down? If you have to reduce the Wheeled output with a Series of Combination Filters doesn’t it make sense to see every Combination Possible from your Wheel? I know, it’s all about the Inventory and Buskovs Wheels are designed to reduce that. But, at what Cost. How many times are you successful at finding all 5 Numbers of a Fantasy Five Game, only to see Buscov throw out a 5 Hit while guaranteeing you a 3 or 4 Hit?

"How many times are you successful at finding all 5 Numbers of a Fantasy Five Game, only to see Buscov throw out a 5 Hit while guaranteeing you a 3 or 4 Hit?"

Where I got the 13 line 3 if 5 of 15 number wheel was irrelevant when I used that wheel and matched all five numbers and still lost 3 bucks.

But it really was a learning experience once I realized there is a reason for a prize guarantee when I got exactly what I was playing for. What I really had was 13 lines where any one of them could match all five numbers, but 13 chances out of 3003 possible combos those 15 numbers created is not a sure thing. But I did finally figure out I was in reality playing to match 3 numbers.

LP has many user friendly wheels making it easy to experiment with. There is a 2 if 5 of 39 number wheel with 25 lines making the only reason not to win the jackpot is how the 39 numbers are entered into the wheel.

"Some people have something to say while other people feel the need to say something"
prtt

Canada
Member #203,915
January 22, 2020
55 Posts
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Dec 17, 2020, 8:50 pm
1. wheel system vs quick picks - first give you much better chances to stay even or up.
playing any wheel system requires at least 5 tickets or more, 20-100 combinations will give you system with good guarantees and decent number selections around 15 numbers. some systems offering 20, 30, even 53 numbers! imagine you have a system with 25 numbers, its a good chance to hit all 6 numbers within it and cash some good money. but not everybody wants to play money over limit, so quick pick has major advantage - you can play $1 and still win big one.

if you buy 100 quick picks or play wheel with 100 combinations for period of time - chances to hit jackpot are SAME, but to win money wheel system much better idea. if you select "good" set of numbers and hit 3-4-5 numbers from your set of numbers, you will get bunch of winning tickets, even smaller ones, that will make you good guaranteed profit. in quick picks generated by central computer all numbers so much apart, that even if you hit 1 or couple tickets, rest is garbage, not even close. playing wheel system gives you instant answer if you won or not, and how much. find simulator for wheel systems on web where you can play virtually without money and check results with your favorite lottery.

2. wheel system vs any custom system (hot/cold, even/odd, first/last digit, etc)

for custom system you need to fill all combinations every time, while for wheel systems lots of websites (including this) offering generating combos from your numbers.

so, answer to your question - if you can play $20 and up for each draw, wheel system can be good idea.

look in the book, find system you like, try it. if you have question about specific system, how its works, what advantage, etc i have some experience, can help you.

hth, prtt
BobP

Dump Water Florida
United States
Member #380
June 5, 2002
3,678 Posts
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Dec 18, 2020, 1:44 am

A wheel is a net or web of numbers woven to catch a lottery prize. When one has selected more likely numbers then can be contained within one ticket line a wheel is in order. Actually the simple purchase of two tickets either with some numbers appearing on both or all unique numbers, you have concurrently created a wheel. In Pick-6 the wheel can be expressed as 100% (12,6,3,5)=2 12 numbers in pool, 6 numbers per line, minimum of 3 winning numbers is 100% guaranteed on a line when 5 of the winning numbers appear among the 12 on the 2 lines. There is also 100% (12,6,3,6)=2 minimum of 2 3#'s is 100% guaranteed on a line when 6 of the winning numbers appear among the 12 on the 2 lines. For Pick-5 the wheel would be 100% (10,5,3,5)=2.

So in a way even Quick Picks are a collection of two line minimum wheels. As wheels get larger and more expensive they also become more interesting.

Basically you can't filter a wheel, as removing even one line destroys the guarantee. Doing so can also reduce the prizes in value and quality or remove them altogether.

Good filtering software removes less likely number segments like a sculptor chips away the marble to reveal the statue inside and builds a wheel of sorts around your filtering choices. This wheel is only for playing for the top prize and does not improve the likelihood of multiple smaller wins.

The thing of it is, in Lottery anything can happen. A dozen quick picks can produce nothing and a wheel with a 3# guarantee can win above it's guarantee.

BobP
AllenB

California
United States
Member #167,120
June 27, 2015
1,777 Posts
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Dec 18, 2020, 11:25 am

When I think of the term “Wheel”, I assign it to the Creator of the Combination Set and not the Set itself. I have a neighbor that once hit second prize in Cal Lottery 649 (when it first appeared) using what He called a “Wheel”. He meant that he was playing the Same 100 Tickets made up of a selected smaller group of numbers.

My Focus is Fantasy Five Games. I have 6 or 7 Filters to chose from for each position in the Draw. Draws are sorted in numerical order. The inventory of numbers in each position depends on the number of filters used in each position. This produces a Block of numbers that I Limit to 10 lines and 5 Columns. I use an Excel Position Wheel to produce all of the possible combinations that you get by combining positional. The Inventory of Combinations is then filtered using Combination Filters, OE,LH, LMH, Fibonacci Counts, Repeat Count. These are Fixed Filters meaning they do not move numbers from their group from draw to draw. I then apply my own dynamic filters derived from the Skip Values for all of the numbers drawn in the Game History.

For each Position hit you get a Game hit in a group of combinations from the Inventory.

A Budget determines the final inventory, so I walk through a series of the Combination Filters until I get to the Inventory matching the Budget.

That’s a lot to get right to hit the Jackpot. But it will produce multiple 3 and 4 hit Tickets when I get the right Filters.

So to me the Wheel is the Combination Creator and I use a Positional Wheel.
Stack47

Kentucky
United States
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February 14, 2006
10,528 Posts
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Dec 18, 2020, 3:31 pm

Quote: Originally posted by AllenB on Dec 18, 2020
When I think of the term “Wheel”, I assign it to the Creator of the Combination Set and not the Set itself. I have a neighbor that once hit second prize in Cal Lottery 649 (when it first appeared) using what He called a “Wheel”. He meant that he was playing the Same 100 Tickets made up of a selected smaller group of numbers.

My Focus is Fantasy Five Games. I have 6 or 7 Filters to chose from for each position in the Draw. Draws are sorted in numerical order. The inventory of numbers in each position depends on the number of filters used in each position. This produces a Block of numbers that I Limit to 10 lines and 5 Columns. I use an Excel Position Wheel to produce all of the possible combinations that you get by combining positional. The Inventory of Combinations is then filtered using Combination Filters, OE,LH, LMH, Fibonacci Counts, Repeat Count. These are Fixed Filters meaning they do not move numbers from their group from draw to draw. I then apply my own dynamic filters derived from the Skip Values for all of the numbers drawn in the Game History.

For each Position hit you get a Game hit in a group of combinations from the Inventory.

A Budget determines the final inventory, so I walk through a series of the Combination Filters until I get to the Inventory matching the Budget.

That’s a lot to get right to hit the Jackpot. But it will produce multiple 3 and 4 hit Tickets when I get the right Filters.

So to me the Wheel is the Combination Creator and I use a Positional Wheel.

For the lotto type pick-5 and pick-6 games, LP has three types of wheels, Full, Key number, and abbreviated. But there are many other wheel types including pairing numbers in 6/49 games and using multiple key numbers in 5/39 games. Wheels will give the intended or guaranteed results, but only if the numbers entered into the wheel are drawn.

We don't have a 5/39 game in Kentucky, but if we did I would be looking for a system/order of entering all 39 numbers into a 25 line 2 if 5 of 39 abbreviated wheel.

"Some people have something to say while other people feel the need to say something"
cottoneyedjoe

United States
Member #197,022
March 28, 2019
1,749 Posts
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Dec 18, 2020, 3:46 pm

"When should you Wheel in your selection Process?"

The lower tier prizes in CA Fantasy Five are so paltry it is not worth it to spend time crafting wheels to capture 3/5 or 4/5. In the past 3 weeks most of the 4/5 prizes were under $400 and a few times they were even under $300. 3/5 pays only $12-$16 on average, and 2/5 is a free quick pick. To each their own, but I've never found this game too appealing. To get the biggest bang for you buck you should only play when the top prize has rolled over twice, that's when the expected return approaches 100%. Save all your free play prizes to buy in then. That's my 2 cents.
Stack47

Kentucky
United States
Member #32,651
February 14, 2006
10,528 Posts
Offline

Dec 20, 2020, 3:10 pm

Quote: Originally posted by BobP on Dec 18, 2020
A wheel is a net or web of numbers woven to catch a lottery prize. When one has selected more likely numbers then can be contained within one ticket line a wheel is in order. Actually the simple purchase of two tickets either with some numbers appearing on both or all unique numbers, you have concurrently created a wheel. In Pick-6 the wheel can be expressed as 100% (12,6,3,5)=2 12 numbers in pool, 6 numbers per line, minimum of 3 winning numbers is 100% guaranteed on a line when 5 of the winning numbers appear among the 12 on the 2 lines. There is also 100% (12,6,3,6)=2 minimum of 2 3#'s is 100% guaranteed on a line when 6 of the winning numbers appear among the 12 on the 2 lines. For Pick-5 the wheel would be 100% (10,5,3,5)=2.

So in a way even Quick Picks are a collection of two line minimum wheels. As wheels get larger and more expensive they also become more interesting.

Basically you can't filter a wheel, as removing even one line destroys the guarantee. Doing so can also reduce the prizes in value and quality or remove them altogether.

Good filtering software removes less likely number segments like a sculptor chips away the marble to reveal the statue inside and builds a wheel of sorts around your filtering choices. This wheel is only for playing for the top prize and does not improve the likelihood of multiple smaller wins.

The thing of it is, in Lottery anything can happen. A dozen quick picks can produce nothing and a wheel with a 3# guarantee can win above it's guarantee.

BobP

"Basically you can't filter a wheel, as removing even one line destroys the guarantee."

But I sure tried to find a way to do it using the "Free Wheeling" program. At best it came down to how the numbers are entered into an abbreviated wheel which is true any time players use them.

"Some people have something to say while other people feel the need to say something"
Charloot

Charlotte
United States
Member #208,748
August 4, 2020
418 Posts
Offline

Dec 21, 2020, 11:33 pm

Just use your state's wheel, they want to win too!

Good luck all.

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