Who is Sam Bankman-Fried and Why Are The Fed's After Him?Prev Topic Next Topic

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GiveFive

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Dec 10, 2022, 7:12 am

Quote: Originally posted by OhSoClose on Dec 10, 2022
G5 was right that the saying is not original to my grandfather; that's just the first place I heard it and I've heard it a thousand times since. It just means that if the thing offered to you appears to have a value far exceeding the cost being asked, then the thing very likely is not worth what you've been led to believe. It's the essence of a con game.

"It's the essence of a con game."

Why is it called a "con"? Because the guy who is a con artist is also known as a "confidence man". The whole idea of any scam is for the criminal to gain the victims confidence so as to be able to steal their money.

But SBF is not a Con Man. He's a thief. He took his clients money out of their accounts without their knowledge and invested it in some highly risky investments that failed. (by the way the money for those risky investments was not used to purchase cryptocurrencies) What he did is a crime called theft and he's going to do some time in prison for it. How much time? I dunno, time will tell, and we'll see what happens to him.

This whole scandal just so happened to have taken place in the exotic world of cryptocurrency, but it's all about theft, not crypto. G5

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GiveFive

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Dec 10, 2022, 8:05 am

Quote: Originally posted by GiveFive on Dec 10, 2022
"It's the essence of a con game."

Why is it called a "con"? Because the guy who is a con artist is also known as a "confidence man". The whole idea of any scam is for the criminal to gain the victims confidence so as to be able to steal their money.

But SBF is not a Con Man. He's a thief. He took his clients money out of their accounts without their knowledge and invested it in some highly risky investments that failed. (by the way the money for those risky investments was not used to purchase cryptocurrencies) What he did is a crime called theft and he's going to do some time in prison for it. How much time? I dunno, time will tell, and we'll see what happens to him.

This whole scandal just so happened to have taken place in the exotic world of cryptocurrency, but it's all about theft, not crypto. G5

SBF's ex-girlfriend, Caroline Ellison, was The CEO of a hedge fund named Alameda Research which SBF started in 2017. As best as I can understand it, here's what's the big deal is with regard to what was going on.

Althugh it's very difficult to get an concise/clear explanation of exactly what the "very risky investments" were that Alameda Research was making with the funds stolen from FTX customer accounts, the best one I've seen is that Alameda used the money stolen from FTX customers "to make big bets on the future value of crytocurrencies." I read that quote in a NY Times article.

That's the same thing that's done in the stock market. Some investors bet that the future value of a stock listed on an exchange will get to a certain price, and that price could be a higher or lower value than it's current value. In essence Alameda was saying "We're willing to bet that the value of Bitcoin will be $18,000 two months from today." (Today's value of Bitcoin is approximately $16,000) If Alameda is right, they win the bet and make money. If they're wrong, they lose the bet. Alameda was betting billions of dollars stolen from FTX's customer's. SBF says he didn't have his arms around it and lost track of how much money was involved. I dont care what he says.... 8 billion dollars in any account is hard to lose track of and not to know what was happening with it. G5

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GiveFive

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Dec 10, 2022, 8:50 am

Add another high profile name to the list of people that lost money in the FTX fiasco. Kevin O'Leary... he was the FTX spokesperson paid 15 million that he put into an FTX wallet. According to O'Leary that account now has a zero in it. Don Imus would have called Kevin O'Leary a "bald headed stooge" and he'd have been right! G5

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Think

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Dec 10, 2022, 5:30 pm

Quote: Originally posted by GiveFive on Dec 10, 2022
Add another high profile name to the list of people that lost money in the FTX fiasco. Kevin O'Leary... he was the FTX spokesperson paid 15 million that he put into an FTX wallet. According to O'Leary that account now has a zero in it. Don Imus would have called Kevin O'Leary a "bald headed stooge" and he'd have been right! G5

I don't know why but I have always been leery of Kevin O'leary!
GiveFive

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Dec 11, 2022, 7:47 am

Quote: Originally posted by Think on Dec 10, 2022
I don't know why but I have always been leery of Kevin O'leary!

Kudo's to Kevin O'Leary for being a self-made billionaire but I feel the negative vibes he gives off whenever I watch Shark Tank.

Yes, he's very smart, but for whatever reason I feel like if I knew him personally (and he knew me) that I probably wouldn't care for him. I know nice guys finish last in business and you can always count on just about any very wealthy person to be a cut throat SOB when it comes to money and business, but I like to actually like people because of their personality too.

There's a picture in The NY Post of O'Leary sitting at a table next to SBF. He's all dressed up and looks like he does on Shark Tank, while Sam The Sham is dressed in his usual dirty Tee-shirt attire. Made me wonder what O'Leary really thought of SBF. But I guess 15 million dollars clouded his thinking. G5

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GiveFive

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Dec 13, 2022, 8:55 am

Yesterday SBF was criminally charged in NYC by a US Attorney for The Southern District of New York. He was arrested by Bahamian Police last night without incident. Extradition proceedings to The United States are expected to begin soon.

Here's a partial cut and paste from a press release issued by The US Securities and Exchange Commission

The complaint alleges that, in reality, Bankman-Fried orchestrated a years-long fraud to conceal from FTX’s investors (1) the undisclosed diversion of FTX customers’ funds to Alameda Research LLC, his privately-held crypto hedge fund; (2) the undisclosed special treatment afforded to Alameda on the FTX platform, including providing Alameda with a virtually unlimited “line of credit” funded by the platform’s customers and exempting Alameda from certain key FTX risk mitigation measures; and (3) undisclosed risk stemming from FTX’s exposure to Alameda’s significant holdings of overvalued, illiquid assets such as FTX-affiliated tokens. The complaint further alleges that Bankman-Fried used commingled FTX customers’ funds at Alameda to make undisclosed venture investments, lavish real estate purchases, and large political donations. Commingled funds means he mixed his clients money with his own money and invested it. That's a huge no-no for any investment firm. Very illegal.

The press release goes on to say "The collapse of FTX stemmed “from the absolute concentration of control in the hands of a very small group of grossly inexperienced and unsophisticated individuals"

"The criminal charges against Mr. Bankman-Fried included wire fraud, wire fraud conspiracy, securities fraud, securities fraud conspiracy and money laundering, said a person with knowledge of the matter."

SBF was set to testify to a Congressional Panel in Washington D.C today, but obviously that will not happen. G5

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GiveFive

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Dec 13, 2022, 1:01 pm

If you're wondering why The Justice Department held off on filing criminal charges for SBF here's one very good reason -

Having SBF arrested in the Bahamas required more care than an arrest on U.S. soil. The United States has an extradition treaty with the Bahamas. Under that treaty, an individual can be arrested in the Bahamas and returned to the United States for “an offense…if it is punishable under the laws in both Contracting States by deprivation of liberty for a period of more than one year or by a more severe penalty.” That meant that the DOJ had to be certain that any offense that SBF faced was a crime under the laws of the Bahamas, as well as the laws of the United States.

In addition, the indictment used to get SBF extradited from the Bahamas limits the crimes with which he can eventually be tried. “A person extradited under this Treaty may only be detained, tried, or punished in the Requesting State for the offense for which extradition was granted…” So, the DOJ will not have the ability to supersede and charge SBF with different crimes, if additional investigation finds SBF committed those crimes.

Also had he testified under oath to Congress today, it would not have been in person. He would have been sitting in The Bahamas and testified remotely via Zoom or some such other remote teleconferencing tool. G5

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Stat$talker

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Dec 13, 2022, 1:22 pm

Let'z keepit Lottery related..

SB-F won the U.S. Lottery...The Fedz sayz, he can only claim it in the U.S not the Bahamaz...Naah?

Hiz @$$sets @ Ft Knox,over a Billion Dollar$

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GiveFive

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Dec 13, 2022, 2:52 pm

Quote: Originally posted by Stat$talker on Dec 13, 2022
Let'z keepit Lottery related..

SB-F won the U.S. Lottery...The Fedz sayz, he can only claim it in the U.S not the Bahamaz...Naah?

Hiz @$$sets @ Ft Knox,over a Billion Dollar$

Play Smart !

Just for a little perspective on the SBF case/mess - "It's bigger than Enron and worse than Bernie Madoff"....

Some other comments I've heard are "Just the tip of the iceberg"..."more indictments to follow".... One legal expert said that "He's charged with wire fraud and that's the easiest crime for a federal prosecutor to prove".... Sam The Sham is toast.

Cryto Curency is an unregulated asset class. It's not like stocks and bonds which are asset classes that are regulated by The US Securities and Exchange Commission. My guess is that crypto will probably soon find itself being regulated due to this case. While the asset class is Crypto (which is a huge mystery to most people) SBF's crime is FRAUD which The Feds have plenty experience with, and have a very good track record of successfully prosecuting. G5

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AllenB

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Dec 13, 2022, 4:15 pm

Quote: Originally posted by GiveFive on Dec 13, 2022
Just for a little perspective on the SBF case/mess - "It's bigger than Enron and worse than Bernie Madoff"....

Some other comments I've heard are "Just the tip of the iceberg"..."more indictments to follow".... One legal expert said that "He's charged with wire fraud and that's the easiest crime for a federal prosecutor to prove".... Sam The Sham is toast.

Cryto Curency is an unregulated asset class. It's not like stocks and bonds which are asset classes that are regulated by The US Securities and Exchange Commission. My guess is that crypto will probably soon find itself being regulated due to this case. While the asset class is Crypto (which is a huge mystery to most people) SBF's crime is FRAUD which The Feds have plenty experience with, and have a very good track record of successfully prosecuting. G5

Feds is not the same term that most of us grew up with. Back then we all assumed that they (the Feds) meant well but were just incompetent by nature. Now you have to worry about the first part but the second is still the same. Non the less, if the Feds are prosecuting you, they are brutal. The Agents will do anything to get a win.

Remember that SBF is a huge Democratic donor. We are all witnessing how these Feds appear to be controlled by the Democrats, so the Top Brass will probably try to hold the Dogs back as long as they can.

It's going to be fun to watch this unfold. Hopefully the little brat gets what he deserves. He would make good wife to the Toss my salad guy.
Stack47

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Dec 13, 2022, 9:25 pm

"Remember that SBF is a huge Democratic donor."

Weird because I just read where Bankman-Fried and unnamed co-conspirators made "tens of millions of dollars in illegal campaign contributions" TO BOTH Democratic and Republican candidates and campaign committees.

"We are all witnessing how these Feds appear to be controlled by the Democrats, so the Top Brass will probably try to hold the Dogs back as long as they can."

Do you have a credible source or just making it look like Bankman-Fried donated to Democrats only to promote a conspiracy theory?

"When will we ever learn?"
Stack47

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Dec 13, 2022, 9:43 pm

Quote: Originally posted by GiveFive on Dec 10, 2022
"It's the essence of a con game."

Why is it called a "con"? Because the guy who is a con artist is also known as a "confidence man". The whole idea of any scam is for the criminal to gain the victims confidence so as to be able to steal their money.

But SBF is not a Con Man. He's a thief. He took his clients money out of their accounts without their knowledge and invested it in some highly risky investments that failed. (by the way the money for those risky investments was not used to purchase cryptocurrencies) What he did is a crime called theft and he's going to do some time in prison for it. How much time? I dunno, time will tell, and we'll see what happens to him.

This whole scandal just so happened to have taken place in the exotic world of cryptocurrency, but it's all about theft, not crypto. G5

Don't like to see anyone conned and it looks like many lost millions investing in Bankman-Fried's cryptocurrency. But as the old proverb says "a fool and his money are soon parted".

Wonder if any of the jackpot winners got advice from their financial advisor's to invest in FTX?

"When will we ever learn?"
AllenB

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Dec 13, 2022, 10:47 pm

Quote: Originally posted by Stack47 on Dec 13, 2022
"Remember that SBF is a huge Democratic donor."

Weird because I just read where Bankman-Fried and unnamed co-conspirators made "tens of millions of dollars in illegal campaign contributions" TO BOTH Democratic and Republican candidates and campaign committees.

"We are all witnessing how these Feds appear to be controlled by the Democrats, so the Top Brass will probably try to hold the Dogs back as long as they can."

Do you have a credible source or just making it look like Bankman-Fried donated to Democrats only to promote a conspiracy theory?

OK, I said it was going to be fun to watch. The Democrats are in Control. They don’t want this stuff getting out. Neither do Republicans, but they don’t have much to do but hide and watch.

What was the breakdown between Democrat and Republican Donations? I honestly don’t know, but I am willing to bet that it is lopsided.

Bankman-Fried, 30, hosted conferences in the Bahamas that boasted visits from former politicians like Tony Blair and Bill Clinton, The Associated Press reported, as he built a reputation as a heavyweight campaign contributor — particularly among Democrats, whom he publicly courted in recent years.

From the article you linked.
GiveFive

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Dec 14, 2022, 7:07 am

Quote: Originally posted by AllenB on Dec 13, 2022
OK, I said it was going to be fun to watch. The Democrats are in Control. They don’t want this stuff getting out. Neither do Republicans, but they don’t have much to do but hide and watch.

What was the breakdown between Democrat and Republican Donations? I honestly don’t know, but I am willing to bet that it is lopsided.

Bankman-Fried, 30, hosted conferences in the Bahamas that boasted visits from former politicians like Tony Blair and Bill Clinton, The Associated Press reported, as he built a reputation as a heavyweight campaign contributor — particularly among Democrats, whom he publicly courted in recent years.

From the article you linked.

Yesterday while watching TV news coverage I saw a breakdown of the donations to both political parties. I wish I could recall the exact numbers that were flashed up on my TV screen but I cant. I do remember that it was heavily lopsided towards the Democratic Party. I think the number for the Democrats was a three digit number while the number for The Republicans was a single digit number.

I also saw a picture of SBF with a group pf people that had both arms draped across each others shoulders, one of whom was California Democratic Congresswoman Maxine Waters. I also heard one commentator say that Waters blew a kiss across the room at SBF. G5

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GiveFive

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Dec 14, 2022, 7:16 am

Quote: Originally posted by Stack47 on Dec 13, 2022
Don't like to see anyone conned and it looks like many lost millions investing in Bankman-Fried's cryptocurrency. But as the old proverb says "a fool and his money are soon parted".

Wonder if any of the jackpot winners got advice from their financial advisor's to invest in FTX?

Great question. Very possible that some jackpot winner somewhere invested in FTX.

The list of celebrities that invested has now grown to include Shaquille O'Neal. Not surprised by that. I've seen Shaq being interviewed by CNBC Anchors sitting at their set where they broadcast live from the floor of The New York Stock Exchange. He's well known to be a savvy investor with his money.

How many Major League Baseball players might have invested? MLB umpires wore black shirts all last season with The FTX logo on them. G5

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