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December 27, 2024
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Hi all lottery gurus,
We ran into a weird situation yesterday and I'd love to get your take on it, please.
We run an office pool when jackpot hits 1BN, and this drawing is one of those we normally play. Our pool reaches $700-800 most of the time and we usually buy ~$100-150 in tickets at multiple stores. Yesterday, my friend came to one of the stores and first went to a self-service machine. She bought $100 worth of tickets - twenty $3 entries and twenty $2 entries. They got printed out from the machine. Then she proceeded to the counter. She asked the clerk for $50 worth of tickets (10 + 10 entries). He charged her debit card $50, printed two sheets of tickets (10x$3 and 10x$2) and she went home.
When I started entering combinations into our Excel sheet, I realized something was off - two sheets she got from the clerk had absolutely identical combinations to the ones she got from the self-service machine, however tickets had a large letter R printed under the price (I assume, it means Reprint?).
What I believe happened was the clerk used some kind of a service function and reprinted last issued tickets from the self-service machine instead of issuing the new ones and probably "bought" himself a gift card using those $50, not knowing it was the same person who just used the machine. Or simply printed new set of tickets for himself.
The thing is that we would've probably never noticed this if he reprinted someone else's tickets and/or if we were not having a pool and entering combinations into the spreadsheet...
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Does this sound as some kind of a known scam/fraud? My friend will be calling a state lottery commission with questions, but I wonder if someone else ran into this as well?
United States
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December 3, 2018
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I didn't know the clerks lottery machine had anything to do with the self service machine. That's crazy. I'd go back and say something to the manager of the store.
So you didn't give the clerk any cards whatsoever. But he printed out the same numbers. He still has to account for the tickets from his lottery terminal. So I'm not sure how he would pocket the 50 bucks. Unless he had a way to cancel the tickets. If he printed out the same numbers. Somehow they were on his screen. So to cancel them isn't out of the question. One set of your tickets might not be valid. That's a small possibility. Call the lottery commission and have them run the numbers from the bottom of the ticket. One from self service machine and clerks terminal.
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May 4, 2023
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if the tickets are quick picks, they will have "qp" next to each line. if you do not see "qp" next to a line, it means the purchaser picked the numbers with a playslip. what probably happened was your friend used the same playslip with her self selected numbers at both the self-service machine and at the counter with the clerk.
PA us
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December 27, 2024
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I am not surprised by this functionality per se - I once had an issue with a ticket at a self-service machine - it probably ran out of paper (or the printer malfunctioned), but - long story short - the store manager was able to reprint the failed ticket. I don't remember exact details, but I am not surprised this functionality exists for this exact reason.
She will be calling the lottery commission today, just wanted to double check we are not missing something here.
And no, she did not fill in any cards, those were automatic QPs in the self-service machine.
Here is what both tickets look like (most redacted for privacy, but the important elements are there) -
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Quote: Originally posted by ilya on Dec 27, 2024
No, she used QP at the machine, we never use playslips. I posted the pic above for reference. Thanks!
ok i see what you're saying, thanks for the picture to clear things up. i didn't know clerks could reproduce a set of quick picks that came from a self-service machine. hope you get some answers from the lottery office.
by the way, why did your group's designated buyer buy some of them at the machine and some of them with a human clerk in the same store? why didn't she use one or the other for the entire purchase?
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>>why did your group's designated buyer buy some of them at the machine and some of them with a human clerk in the same store? why didn't she use one or the other for the entire purchase?
Mmm... no specific reason, I guess. I also buy some tickets for this pool and I sometimes do the same thing. Kind of a sense of better "randomization" this way. I sometimes buy $50 at one store and $50 at another one across the street (instead of just buying $100 at the same place)
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Quote: Originally posted by ilya on Dec 27, 2024
>>why did your group's designated buyer buy some of them at the machine and some of them with a human clerk in the same store? why didn't she use one or the other for the entire purchase?
Mmm... no specific reason, I guess. I also buy some tickets for this pool and I sometimes do the same thing. Kind of a sense of better "randomization" this way. I sometimes buy $50 at one store and $50 at another one across the street (instead of just buying $100 at the same place)
i guess you're stuck with the duplicates for this drawing, but maybe you'll get lucky in win a double prize. lesson learned, just buy them all at one machine and maybe avoid that store from now on. good luck to you.
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>>maybe you'll get lucky in win a double prize
That depends (apart from a lot of luck for this to happen, of course) on how the lottery system handles these "reprints" - given that the "reprinted" ticket has all the different LK/RK values on it, I bet the system works in a way that if a reprint is requested, the "failed" ticket ID / barcode is invalidated in the backend (as it is assumed that it was stuck in a printer or something similar), so we technically don't have "double" tickets.
It would be interesting to see what the machine says if we bring the "first" set of tickets tomorrow to check for any winning combinations.
And, BTW, she wasn't able to reach the lottery commission by phone today - she waited on hold for a long time, but didn't reach a human. We'll try again tomorrow or next week.
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Totally guessing at how lottery reality works, but it makes an awful lot of sense to be able to reprint tickets within some short window in case there's any kind of problem. You'd hope the machine knows if it's out of paper, but knowing that a ticket is illegible is a much bigger ask. Whatever causes a problem with the original ticket, the obvious solution would be an ability to reprint recent tickets. Slapping a great big R on it would be an easy way to identify the ticket as a reprint without requiring access to the lottery's database that would (I'd hope) also identify the ticket(s) as a reprint, and also identify the original ticket(s) as a cross reference.
I'm willing to consider that a clerk can be stupid enough to think that they need to charge for reprints that are replacing misprinted tickets, and that would definitely be the case if the tickets were reprinted on the same machine and the original tickets hadn't been paid for. There's also a small possibility that the misprinted tickets need to be refunded by the lottery themselves. Either way, each transaction will have been logged. The machine will show the time of purchase and a charge (paid for with the debit card?) and the terminal will show a charge for a ticket that obviously duplicates the one from the machine. The store and the bank will both have records of the $50 payment at nearly the same time as the ticket generation, and the customer presumably has a receipt. The store may als have some record that indicates what the $50 debit card charge was for. I don't know how easy it will be to sort out the problem and issue a refund, but I've got no doubt that it can be done. Worst case is that instead of some (hopefully simple) paperwork the lottery's security department, and possibly the local police, get involved.
Florida's West Coast United States
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June 10, 2010
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I'm in Florida. I've no idea if Florida Lottery software has "reprint" functionality included in it or not. This is the first time I've ever heard of such a thing, but I can see why it might be necessary and potentially have a positive use(s). I might ask a few clerks here in Florida if they've ever heard of it, or maybe I'll just send an email to The Florida Lottery and ask them if they have reprint functionality in the software. (I might even do both!)
I'm also wondering if the ability to reprint a ticket is a brand new function. Something that's just been rolled out across your state. If that's the case, some lottery clerks may have just learned of it, and the clerk involved in your situation may have thought that they could pull off some sort of poorly conceived scam to their benefit. I'm sure that in the past, lottery terminals of either kind, a terminal operated manually by a clerk, or an automated ticket terminal (which I hold the opinion is meant to reduce the retailers cost of selling tickets) have had ticket print quality problems/issues. A reprint function could be the state lottery's response to address/fix complaints they've received about a ticket with illegible numbers printed on it.
Lottery ticket "machines" are something I never use. That's mostly because they don't give change. If I want to buy a ten dollar ticket, but I only have a twenty dollar bill on me, then I wont use an automated ticket terminal. (which is really what that big "lottery machine" in the grocery store truly is) Something I've laughed about with regard to lottery vending "machines" is while they're located in the front of the store near the checkout registers in my local supermarket, there's a clerk at the customer service counter in that very same store who can sell me a lottery ticket by running my bet slip through a terminal they operate. Only once was I ever in a convenience store (a chain located in multiple states) where I walked up to the customer service counter, handed the clerk my bet slip, and was told "You have to use that machine right over there sir. We don't sell tickets at customer service" That particular chain is reducing their cost of selling lottery tickets, but not my local Publix. G5
Play Smart! That's IF there is such a thing as playing smartly!!
Florida's West Coast United States
Member #92,603
June 10, 2010
7,148 Posts Online
Quote: Originally posted by GiveFive on Dec 29, 2024
I'm in Florida. I've no idea if Florida Lottery software has "reprint" functionality included in it or not. This is the first time I've ever heard of such a thing, but I can see why it might be necessary and potentially have a positive use(s). I might ask a few clerks here in Florida if they've ever heard of it, or maybe I'll just send an email to The Florida Lottery and ask them if they have reprint functionality in the software. (I might even do both!)
I'm also wondering if the ability to reprint a ticket is a brand new function. Something that's just been rolled out across your state. If that's the case, some lottery clerks may have just learned of it, and the clerk involved in your situation may have thought that they could pull off some sort of poorly conceived scam to their benefit. I'm sure that in the past, lottery terminals of either kind, a terminal operated manually by a clerk, or an automated ticket terminal (which I hold the opinion is meant to reduce the retailers cost of selling tickets) have had ticket print quality problems/issues. A reprint function could be the state lottery's response to address/fix complaints they've received about a ticket with illegible numbers printed on it.
Lottery ticket "machines" are something I never use. That's mostly because they don't give change. If I want to buy a ten dollar ticket, but I only have a twenty dollar bill on me, then I wont use an automated ticket terminal. (which is really what that big "lottery machine" in the grocery store truly is) Something I've laughed about with regard to lottery vending "machines" is while they're located in the front of the store near the checkout registers in my local supermarket, there's a clerk at the customer service counter in that very same store who can sell me a lottery ticket by running my bet slip through a terminal they operate. Only once was I ever in a convenience store (a chain located in multiple states) where I walked up to the customer service counter, handed the clerk my bet slip, and was told "You have to use that machine right over there sir. We don't sell tickets at customer service" That particular chain is reducing their cost of selling lottery tickets, but not my local Publix. G5
Sorry for replying to my own post. Something occurred to me after I had posted, and the ten minutes alloted by The LP for the post's author to edit a post had elapsed. I felt that I should have included what I'm about to write below in my original post.
Obviously the large 'R' printed on the ticket is there for a reason. I can't think of anything better for it to mean other than "reprint". As I said above, I do wonder if it's something new or not. Maybe it's been in the original lottery terminal software all along, and maybe it was a recent modification to the original code.
Someone who wrote the program specifications and gave them to the software engineer (a programmer) to write the code wanted that functionality in the code. If it truly does mean 'reprint' then it's very likely there for use by your states lottery personnel. It's certainly nice to know information for players, but it's probably intended for use by lottery personnel.
Was it an innocent mistake made by the clerk that your pool received two identical tickets, or did the clerk have something nefarious in mind? Your state's lottery personnel can probably run a query against a database of transaction logs and maybe spot something that doesn't look right.
If they conducted an investigation into it such as interviewing the clerk, they might be able to determine if it was an innocent mistake or not. If I was the clerk, I'd say "I must have accidentally hit the wrong button on the terminal" or "I must have accidentally given the customer the wrong ticket which I should have thrown in the garbage." I'd state either of those reasons because it really was my innocent mistake, or I'm lying to cover up my evil deed. Your states lottery might not ever be able to prove the clerk had bad intentions.
Good luck with pursuing and getting an answer. Some good has already come out of the whole thing. You've educated me and others that this functionality exists when I had no clue a reprint can happen. I like learning new things about the lottery...been playing for years, never won anything greater than $700! I'll have to take a look at The Florida Lottery's website and see if I can submit an email with a question in it. If so, I'll submit it and post any response I might receive here. G5
Play Smart! That's IF there is such a thing as playing smartly!!
Florida's West Coast United States
Member #92,603
June 10, 2010
7,148 Posts Online
Quote: Originally posted by GiveFive on Dec 29, 2024
Sorry for replying to my own post. Something occurred to me after I had posted, and the ten minutes alloted by The LP for the post's author to edit a post had elapsed. I felt that I should have included what I'm about to write below in my original post.
Obviously the large 'R' printed on the ticket is there for a reason. I can't think of anything better for it to mean other than "reprint". As I said above, I do wonder if it's something new or not. Maybe it's been in the original lottery terminal software all along, and maybe it was a recent modification to the original code.
Someone who wrote the program specifications and gave them to the software engineer (a programmer) to write the code wanted that functionality in the code. If it truly does mean 'reprint' then it's very likely there for use by your states lottery personnel. It's certainly nice to know information for players, but it's probably intended for use by lottery personnel.
Was it an innocent mistake made by the clerk that your pool received two identical tickets, or did the clerk have something nefarious in mind? Your state's lottery personnel can probably run a query against a database of transaction logs and maybe spot something that doesn't look right.
If they conducted an investigation into it such as interviewing the clerk, they might be able to determine if it was an innocent mistake or not. If I was the clerk, I'd say "I must have accidentally hit the wrong button on the terminal" or "I must have accidentally given the customer the wrong ticket which I should have thrown in the garbage." I'd state either of those reasons because it really was my innocent mistake, or I'm lying to cover up my evil deed. Your states lottery might not ever be able to prove the clerk had bad intentions.
Good luck with pursuing and getting an answer. Some good has already come out of the whole thing. You've educated me and others that this functionality exists when I had no clue a reprint can happen. I like learning new things about the lottery...been playing for years, never won anything greater than $700! I'll have to take a look at The Florida Lottery's website and see if I can submit an email with a question in it. If so, I'll submit it and post any response I might receive here. G5
On The Florida Lottery's website I found a way to submit a question to them via email.
Here's what I wrote in my email -
Hello,
Does a Florida Lottery retailer have the capability for a recently purchased ticket (before the drawing) to be reprinted?
If I bought an online draw games ticket from a lottery vending machine, and the printing on the ticket was of such poor quality so as to render my ticket illegible, or the machine simply mangled (crumpled up) my ticket when it was being ejected from the machine, could I take the ticket to a customer service counter and have the clerk reprint an identical legible or un-mangled ticket from that terminal? Thank you for any response!
Here's what the screen says immediately after you submit a question -
"Thank you for writing the Florida Lottery; we appreciate hearing from you. If your email requires a reply, a Florida Lottery representative will respond to your inquiry or comment as soon as possible. If you need an immediate response, please call the Lottery's Customer Service office at (850) 487-7787, Monday through Friday, 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. ET, and a representative will gladly assist you. When you play, we all win!"
I think my email requires a reply from them! Hope they think so too.... we'll see, won't we? G5
Play Smart! That's IF there is such a thing as playing smartly!!
