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Are lottery pools legal in Michigan?

Topic closed. 12 replies. Last post 13 years ago by Jake649.

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United States
Member #2599
October 23, 2003
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Posted: October 23, 2003, 8:26 pm - IP Logged

Can any of you tell me about any experiences regarding the legality of a lotto pool in Michigan?

The issue is that somebody has a website for lotto pools in Michigan and I want to know if it is legal. Can I join?
What are you advising me?

Thanks everybody.

    Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
    Chief Bottle Washer
    New Jersey
    United States
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    May 31, 2000
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    Posted: October 23, 2003, 8:54 pm - IP Logged

    gmcroman,

    Send me a Private Message with the URL of the Web site and I'll take a look.  Please don't post the site on the forum, just send it privately.

     

    Check the State Lottery Report Card
    What grade did your lottery earn?

     

    Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
    Help eliminate computerized drawings!

      RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
      mid-Ohio
      United States
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      March 24, 2001
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      Posted: October 24, 2003, 7:07 pm - IP Logged

      gmcroman,

      If you join a lottery pool at a website organized by somebody  you don't know with a group of other somebodies  that you don't know, what difference does it makes if it is legal or not?  If in the future when you've won nothing and feel you have been cheated, who are you going to file a legal claim against, somebody you don't know?  Getting in a lottery pool with people you know and can identify have legal risk if you don't have a written agreement and I doubt if anybody running a lottery pool over the Internet is going to identify himself and sign a written agreement. 

      RJOh

       * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
         
                   Evil Looking       

        Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
        Chief Bottle Washer
        New Jersey
        United States
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        Posted: October 24, 2003, 7:59 pm - IP Logged

        For those following this thread, I never received the URL from gmcroman.

         

        Check the State Lottery Report Card
        What grade did your lottery earn?

         

        Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
        Help eliminate computerized drawings!

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          Posted: October 25, 2003, 6:02 pm - IP Logged

          For those that follow this thread, I did e-mail Todd in this morning and another e-mail a few minutes ago.

          I am still waiting for an answer.

          So, anybody can make some light?

          Thank you.

            Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
            Chief Bottle Washer
            New Jersey
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            Posted: October 25, 2003, 6:39 pm - IP Logged

            Here's my response I sent to gmcroman:






            gmcroman,

            Here's my experience with almost every lottery pooling Web site: you basically get ripped off.  These sites use pools to hide the fact that they charge many times the ticket cost.

            With the site you mentioned, you're basically buying 8 tickets for $29, or almost $4 per ticket.

            The way to calculate that is to take their package #1: 400 total tickets, with 50 people in the pool.  400 tickets divided by 50 people is 8 tickets per person, for $29.

            Plus, you can basically kiss any smaller winnings goodbye, because there's almost nothing left, even if you win a $150 prize.  ($3 per person?!?!)  There's really nothing to fund future purchases.

            Also, the odds that these 50-person pools generate, with only 50 tickets per drawing, do not significantly improve your chance of winning, no matter what the fancy graphics indicate.

            My advice is to steer clear of that Web site.  However, I do not think all lottery pooling is bad.  It just isn't being done in a way that benefits the player in this case.

            I'll post back another message in the future if I become aware of a good player-friendly lottery pool site.

             

            Check the State Lottery Report Card
            What grade did your lottery earn?

             

            Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
            Help eliminate computerized drawings!

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              Posted: October 26, 2003, 7:06 am - IP Logged

              Todd, thank you.

              I know that what you are saying is truth. I 'll give it a good thought. My concern is: is it legal?

              I'll realy appreciate a little help. Thank you.

                Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
                Chief Bottle Washer
                New Jersey
                United States
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                May 31, 2000
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                Posted: October 26, 2003, 10:08 am - IP Logged

                No, I don't think it's illegal, just a rip-off.

                 

                Check the State Lottery Report Card
                What grade did your lottery earn?

                 

                Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
                Help eliminate computerized drawings!

                  Jake649's avatar - scene sunovermountains.jpg

                  Canada
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                  November 2, 2003
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                  Posted: November 2, 2003, 2:19 pm - IP Logged

                  Yes, lottery pools are legal in Michigan. The Michigan Lottery website gives some advice on starting a lottery pool. See the FAQ page at: http://www.michigan.gov/lottery/0,1607,7-110-1227-4235--F,00.html

                  The above page also contains links to the IRS forms required to claim pool wins larger than can be redeemed at a lottery retailer. The fact that the IRS has lottery pool forms and instructions for their completion implies that lottery pools are legal in all states that hold lotteries.

                  Lottery pools are also encouraged by some state lottery jurisdictions because they contribute to larger sales. Some state lotteries offer sample forms that can be used for lottery pools.

                  Good luck,
                  Jake

                    luckyduckydave's avatar - animal duck.jpg
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                    Houston Texas
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                    Posted: November 16, 2003, 2:50 pm - IP Logged

                    gmcroman,

                    There are several lottery pool MLM programs that are legal and a few that perform well.  As far as starting a lottery pool as an individual I recommend doing in depth research and developing a contract for participants.  An illegal lottery is usually set in the context of having to pay a fee to enter into it where lotteries that are free to enter are not bound to the same policies.  What I am suggesting is that a safer route is to operate a lottery pool for a lottery that is free to enter.  There are several websites that offer a free to enter lotto where the advertising revenue funds the jackpot for the lottery.  I highly recommend seeking counsel from a legal expert regarding starting a lottery pool for a state, national, or pay to enter lottery as from the research I have done so far  has pointed out that the founder of the pool must comply with SEC regulations (not to mention the IRS). This may be a rather tall order. One aspect to lottery pool MLM's is that they may be operated as a business venture with commissions being made from network marketing the opportunity.  To develop and operate a lottery pool as an individual you would need to iron out the policy, develop a contract and network market it with the possibility of offering commissions for members to refer others. Of course it is the company that is making the most money from this, however this gives the opportunity for members to play the lottery while operating a business and if done properly may be a profitable way to play the lotto's. 

                     As Todd mentioned with many of the lottery pools you will pay a higher price per ticket, however many of these pools offer commissions for each person you direct to their program.  Most people have difficulty getting the first dozen sign ups and this is about the number required to make these MLM lotto pools pay for themselves.  The one's I am familiar with offer about  %8-%11 commissions per sign up, therefore to make it profitable, members must get at least about a dozen to make it so they are not paying for the opportunity to enter for a chance to win in a lottery pool.  From there they may make residual income by referring others upon their first set.

                    I am developing a website (it's not quite live yet) that will have an environment that will facilitate networking opportunities of a lottery nature.  I have looked into creating a lottery pool at some point in the future but for now, my hands are full.  If anyone in this forum would be interested in developing a lottery pool, I am in the market.  Please contact me if interested.

                      Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
                      Chief Bottle Washer
                      New Jersey
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                      Posted: November 16, 2003, 4:20 pm - IP Logged

                      Ducky,

                      I have removed the link to your "homepage" (purposely in quotes), because I do not allow any free advertising here.  Especially advertising for those "syndicate" sites.  You can find more specifics about my opinion of those sites in some other threads posted here.

                      Everyone should take his comments with a grain of salt and for what they're worth, because of the source.

                      Ducky, I would not suggest brining this topic up again if you wish to stay an active member.

                       

                      Check the State Lottery Report Card
                      What grade did your lottery earn?

                       

                      Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
                      Help eliminate computerized drawings!

                        BobP's avatar - bobp avatar.png
                        Dump Water Florida
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                        Posted: November 16, 2003, 10:23 pm - IP Logged

                        When a state lottery site posts pooling information it is always about people joining together to buy more tickets then they would individually.  Most states take a very dim view of mlm clubs selling ten dollars worth of lottery tickets as their "product" for fifty dollars with the focus on commissions and use anti-scalping laws to make such clubs go away.  Such clubs do better from locations where lottery winnings are not taxed and scammy mlm isn't illegal or laws enforced.  Even if lottery mlm clubs were legal in the U.S. the tax processing / reporting costs of commissions and lower tier wins would eat them alive. 

                          Jake649's avatar - scene sunovermountains.jpg

                          Canada
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                          November 2, 2003
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                          Posted: November 17, 2003, 7:38 am - IP Logged

                          I would like to clarify my earlier post where I stated lottery pools are legal in the US. I am using the simple definition of a lottery pool as mentioned by BobP in the previous post. A lottery pool simply being a group of people pooling their money to buy more tickets and thereby inceasing their chances of winning.

                          I would strongly recommend staying away from any group where the organizer is trying to make money from the pool participants. A substantial part of every ticket purchase is already going to the lottery commission for overhead and the state's coffers. To add any more money to pay an additional level of overhead is a very poor decision. The extra money does not offset the decreased odds of being part of a pool.

                          A player is much better off playing a lottery with lower odds as an individual rather than joining a pool where the players are being charged a fee above the face value cost of the tickets.

                          Good luck,
                          Jake