Welcome Guest
Log In | Register )
You last visited December 5, 2016, 1:37 pm
All times shown are
Eastern Time (GMT-5:00)

Questions for Lottery Official

Topic closed. 27 replies. Last post 13 years ago by Todd.

Page 2 of 2
PrintE-mailLink
Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
Chief Bottle Washer
New Jersey
United States
Member #1
May 31, 2000
23260 Posts
Offline
Posted: February 14, 2004, 5:21 pm - IP Logged

Wow Jake, that was a really

 

Check the State Lottery Report Card
What grade did your lottery earn?

 

Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
Help eliminate computerized drawings!

    fja's avatar - gnome1

    United States
    Member #91
    January 19, 2002
    11927 Posts
    Offline
    Posted: February 14, 2004, 8:52 pm - IP Logged

    Thanks for the info jake, It does help clarify somethings! 

    "Everybody has to believe in something...I believe I'll have another beer!"   = W.C.Fields                      

      Jake649's avatar - scene sunovermountains.jpg

      Canada
      Member #2673
      November 2, 2003
      497 Posts
      Offline
      Posted: February 15, 2004, 9:00 am - IP Logged
      Quote: Originally posted by Todd on February 14, 2004


      Very interesting on the upcoming changes to the 6/49 game.  Did he give you any more details on the specific changes?

      Also, does he visit Lottery Post?  Does he know about other industry people that visit Lottery Post?  (That's a question from another thread.)






      Todd,

      I believe the changes to the Lotto 649 game were discussed here before. Essentially the ticket price goes from $1 to $2. There is a new prize category of $5 for a 2 number match plus bonus number. The jackpots start at $4 million and then roll to $10, $17 and $25 million.

      He did not seem to recognize Lottery Post. He had visited the rec.gambling.lottery group on occasion but did not find it useful or interesting. He does not give much credit to the study of systems. Does not think they are useful. (his opinion).

      Good luck,
      Jake

        Jake649's avatar - scene sunovermountains.jpg

        Canada
        Member #2673
        November 2, 2003
        497 Posts
        Offline
        Posted: February 15, 2004, 9:54 am - IP Logged

        The following is another interesting discussion we had dealing with quick picks.

        Quick picks are generted by the terminal. There is no communication back to the central computer in order to generate the quick pick. Once the random quick pick is created, then the ticket contents are sent to the central system to be recorded and then the ticket is printed.

        There has been talk (I think on this site) that the system picks quick picks to help generate jackpot roll overs. He reported as fact that this is not true. He said that this would break a fundamental rule that  the quick picks are random. Each terminal in fact uses a different seed number in their random number generator.

        He also reported (as has been reported here) that most wins are from quick picks simply because most tickets purchased are quick picks. Law of averages.

        He agreed that the lottery commision loves jackpot roll overs. The bigger jackpots generate bigger sales, but they do not engineer roll overs except by simply creating games with longer odds. They decided to use a different tactic with the new Lotto 640 format. Rather than increase the odds to get bigger rollovers they decided to go for a higher priced ticket ($2).

        Good luck,
        Jake

          Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
          Chief Bottle Washer
          New Jersey
          United States
          Member #1
          May 31, 2000
          23260 Posts
          Offline
          Posted: February 15, 2004, 11:02 am - IP Logged
          Quote: Originally posted by Jake649 on February 15, 2004



          ....Each terminal in fact uses a different seed number in their random number generator.....



           

          That is actually interesting news.  In order to be truly random, a RNG should constantly change its seed number.  Otherwise a RNG will develop patterns, and will heavily favor the production of certain numbers.

          The bottom line is this means that if you go to one store, you are likely to get numbers weighted towards a certain grouping of numbers, whereas another store will be weighted towards another grouping.  This reflects my "gut" instincts that I have felt for some time.  It also means that to get a more random sampling, you need to go to multiple stores.

          It also explains why a site like Lottery Post have much better Quick Picks generators than the stores.  These sites constantly change their seed number, giving you a much more random sequence of numbers.

          Most good RNGs will generate a new seed each time it is used, normally based on its internal clock counter.  (The clock is a constantly changing value, so the seed will always get a new value that is not based on a subjective source.)

           

          Check the State Lottery Report Card
          What grade did your lottery earn?

           

          Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
          Help eliminate computerized drawings!

            JAP69's avatar - alas
            South Carolina
            United States
            Member #6
            November 4, 2001
            8790 Posts
            Offline
            Posted: February 15, 2004, 11:17 am - IP Logged

            Todd,
            The way I understand what you said about the Lottery Post generator is that every time it is used it will generate a more mixed combination of numbers.
            I play Carolina five with quick picks from the store. If I were to use the lottery post generator and have it pull 3 combinations each separate time for say 21 lines I will have a more mixed bag of combinations.
            Is it reset every time I punch create 3 more or do I need to go back to the beginning?

            WHATT

              Avatar
              Wisconsin
              United States
              Member #1610
              June 3, 2003
              668 Posts
              Offline
              Posted: February 15, 2004, 12:17 pm - IP Logged

              Extremely interesting and informative especially that info. on the quick-picks and rngs. Thanks again Jake, for doing this!

              ... the lottery never fails to surprise!
                Jake649's avatar - scene sunovermountains.jpg

                Canada
                Member #2673
                November 2, 2003
                497 Posts
                Offline
                Posted: February 15, 2004, 12:26 pm - IP Logged

                Todd,

                We did not discuss how often the seed number changes at each terminal. Only that each terminal uses (and changes) their own seed number and do not use a seed number from the central system.

                Jake

                  Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
                  Chief Bottle Washer
                  New Jersey
                  United States
                  Member #1
                  May 31, 2000
                  23260 Posts
                  Offline
                  Posted: February 15, 2004, 1:06 pm - IP Logged
                  Quote: Originally posted by JAP69 on February 15, 2004


                  Todd,
                  The way I understand what you said about the Lottery Post generator is that every time it is used it will generate a more mixed combination of numbers.
                  I play Carolina five with quick picks from the store. If I were to use the lottery post generator and have it pull 3 combinations each separate time for say 21 lines I will have a more mixed bag of combinations.
                  Is it reset every time I punch create 3 more or do I need to go back to the beginning?



                  Every time you create a new set of numbers, whether you start again or just click the Create X More button, it uses a new seed.

                   

                  Check the State Lottery Report Card
                  What grade did your lottery earn?

                   

                  Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
                  Help eliminate computerized drawings!

                    kbcherokee's avatar - buffalo2
                    Virginia
                    United States
                    Member #1712
                    June 20, 2003
                    1549 Posts
                    Offline
                    Posted: February 15, 2004, 4:20 pm - IP Logged

                    Todd:

                    How does this "seed" work? And what are you calling a "seed."?

                    Chief

                    May the warm winds of heaven blow softly upon your house. May  the Great Spirit bless all who enter there. May your mocassins make happy tracks in many snows. And may the rainbow always touch your shoulder.

                      LottoBuddy's avatar - tails

                      Canada
                      Member #3722
                      February 15, 2004
                      46 Posts
                      Offline
                      Posted: February 15, 2004, 10:53 pm - IP Logged

                      Quote:

                        LottoBuddy's avatar - tails

                        Canada
                        Member #3722
                        February 15, 2004
                        46 Posts
                        Offline
                        Posted: February 16, 2004, 12:17 am - IP Logged
                        Quote: Originally posted by Jake649 on February 15, 2004


                        There is a new prize category of $5 for a 2 number match plus bonus number.


                        If the odds of matching two numbers is:
                        P(2 winning numbers) = (6 2) x (43 4) / (49 6) = 1,851,150 / 13,983,816 = 0.13237803, or 1 in 7.55,
                        what are the odds of matching two plus the bonus number?  Is it 1,851,150 possibilities times the 1 in 43 chance of matching the bonus number, or
                        43,050 / 13,983,816 = 0.00307856, or 1 in 324.83?
                          Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
                          Chief Bottle Washer
                          New Jersey
                          United States
                          Member #1
                          May 31, 2000
                          23260 Posts
                          Offline
                          Posted: February 16, 2004, 7:23 pm - IP Logged
                          Quote: Originally posted by kbcherokee on February 15, 2004



                          Todd:

                          How does this "seed" work? And what are you calling a "seed."?

                          Chief





                          Chief,

                          Computers cannot do thinking on their own, they only carry out specific instructions that are given to them.  Kind of like a calculator on steroids.

                          Because of this, there is no truly random number generated by a computer.  A Random Number Generator (RNG) is really just an extremely complex formula that starts with a particular number, performs a ton of different calculations on it, and spits out an "answer" to the forumla at the end.

                          If the formula is sufficiently complex, it appears that the number ("answer") is random because you get a different "answer" each time.  However, if you were to always start the formula with the same number, and you generated a lot of "random" numbers, you would begin to see number patterns emerging.  That's because, as I said, there is no truly random number, it is really a forumla, and formulas are designed to calculate results precisely, not randomly.

                          Therefore, in order to not fall into patterns, a RNG has to vary the starting number.  That starting number is called the seed.

                          One of the most popular ways to change the seed number is to use the computer's internal clock.

                          When you turn a computer on, the processor's internal clock (which is actually more like a counter) is reset to zero, and increments by 1 every millisecond.  Just before generating a random number, good programmers will generate a new seed value based on the computer's clock.

                          Because it is highly unlikely that someone will run a program at precisely the same millisecond clock tick on successive times, the seed number will always be different.  (And remember because it is a counter, not a clock, it is the number of milliseconds since the computer was restarted, not the time of day.)

                          Hope that sheds some light!

                           

                          Check the State Lottery Report Card
                          What grade did your lottery earn?

                           

                          Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
                          Help eliminate computerized drawings!