Hiding in a hole or not he was one of the most sickest, sadistic evil sob's living today. He would think nothing of beating, raping and torturing you and or any member in your family. And after he was done doing that he might even take pleasure in posting your body in front of a central landmark for everybody to look at. This weirdo killed his own people for the fun of it.

We are killing more innocent iraqis every day

The point of this all however is that, we should be after Bin Laden, and if Bush did want to get Saddam, why did he have to repeatedly lie to us to do so.
Four4me, i have heard some terrible stories, and if they are true (what do we really know) then he deserved what he got, i am NOT defending saddam, but only the INNOCENT iraqis, and why have we not killed Bin Laden yet. We stopped trying along time ago, he could walk by the white house and bush would be more interested in gay marriage, i know i post about that topic alot, trust me i am not gay, but i cant stand the fact that we have hate crimes for people who do things to gay people (PROVES THAT THEY ARE JUST LIKE YOU AND ME) Yet they cant have a normal relationship, and Social security is denying some marriage certificates of straight people that have wed in some states that wed gay people saying that, no certificates are valid, get over it people, we are all the same, some born different colors, sexes, sexuality's, heights, weights, different color eyes, its all natural........any president willing to go against natural things and then proclaim he is religious.........

All people are equal. If humans would have followed this forever then there would have been no Hitler, no Saddam, no Racism, no Bush.....
Watch a hundred years from now, everyones so sorry to gay people......

We are not killing innocent Iraqis every day, where did you see that? However, there are lots of terrorsts in Iraq killing innocent Iraqis, and we're trying to stop them so the good people can have an election in January.

Last time there was an election in Iraq, Saddam won 100% of the vote! :-D

Justin, you are correct. Saddam's power was diminished while he was hiding from superior forces, but you are jumping to major conclusions in assuming that he would stay there indefinitely. This man, and his followers, are animals. They have no regard for human life and, in my opinion, deserve to die in the most horrible and painful manner that can be devised. Spend a few months there, as I did in 1991, and then come back with your heart on your sleeve. The only reason this war isn't over by now is that the allies insist on following conventional rules of engagement and the Geneva Doctrines, both of which are a joke to these vermin. Personally, I think we should fight fire with fire, but to do so would signal the end of the civilized world. If you believe Osama Bin Laden is such easy prey, why not find him yourself and collect the bounty? The 10th Mountain Division is comprised of some of the toughest, most dedicated and methodical military personnel this nation has ever produced, and they WILL find this insect. Be patient. As for your comments concerning gay marriages, I think it's sad that gay people feel they need societal recognition for what they do in their bedrooms. To base one's entire lifestyle on the same premise is, in my opinion, petty, self-serving and stupid, since it contributes nothing to society in general and has no benefits other than a seven-second orgasm. So what is there to recognize? I'm NOT anti-gay; I'm just saying that I don't care who someone has sex with, provided she's not having it with my wife or daughter. Gay people have their own community and subculture which actively excludes heterosexuals as somehow inferior beings who just don't "get it," and yet they strive to be accepted into mainstream society. They can't have it both ways (no pun intended); if they want to be a part of mainstream USA, then they'll have to accept American traditions and values, and leave their sexual preferences in their bedrooms. I can think of no time in history when ANY special-interest group has been able to force a paradigm shift with no benefit to the societal majority, and I see no indication of any historical precedent being set here. You don't have to like it, nor agree with it, but if you're going carry on with your criticisms, at least offer up some informed, intelligent and viable solutions. If you think you can do a better job, run for president. If you make it, I hope I'm there to see the look on your face after you've had a chance to weigh your new presidential powers against those of the average congressman or senator. Don't take this the wrong way; you have some interesting, though ill-informed, views on current events, and I enjoy reading them. Many people can't bother themselves with the world's problems, and it's refreshing to find someone who takes an interest. Terrible stories might be just that: stories. Take some time to verify what you hear, and double-check what you see. Don't put your faith in the press; at best, they'll only give you part of the story. Find your own answers to the questions you have. Talk to people, make phone calls, write letters and emails. An opinion based on conjecture and rumor is subject to correction and ridicule. An opinion based on irrefutable facts commands respect, promotes education and provokes its readers to reconsider their own views.

Jim,

That was MAGNIFICENT. It's a rare thing to see something in print that takes all my thoughts on a subject and somehow distills them down into their essence. Perfect, perfect, PERFECT.

Justin, I am telling you, as someone who's been on this earth a bit longer than you, as much as you will be instantly turned off to what Jim wrote, try, try, try to listen to this wisdom. These are wise words.

Jim, i am only 18 and i probably dont know anymore than what i hear, im personally so frustrated just hearing about all the people dying all the time, and all the jobs were losing, and my biggest dissapointment, is that i am 18, i have an ulcer, and acid reflux, and i cant afford to see a doctor, my dads insurance broke its limit on my brother, so im basically screwed, i am so mad bush lied to get us into this war that i would have elected hulk hogan as president (okay maybe not that far) but really, i dont know all that much i go off personal experience, and personally i met with my friend who i had posted about possibly going to iraq, and she is so changed, she has given up on dreams altogether, the worst part is she is NOT depressed, she quotes "i am not a person, i am part of the US army" its so sad, she was proud of that, she couldnt give me any opinions on the world, except she would admit, the war was based on terrible reasoning. the first thing she did after being home from months upon months of training was SHINE HER BOOTS, sad.....very, very sad.......i dont even know, im just so frustrated with the world i need someone to take it out on, and bush lied, hes lied again and again. i cant stand people that lie, clinton did about sex, well that doesnt kill people. for all i know as an 18 year old citizen, all the facts i know could be bogus. I just hate watching things happen to people. I wish i could change the world, if i had one wish it would be for everyone to just be happy, everyone to realize their dreams, everyone to fall in love...it will never happen, but i can only wish, i get off topic so fast. anyways, jim, i find i can relate to your post, and as i say to everyone, i am not close minded, give me something that makes sense, and i will listen, i will take in, and i might even agree.
its always worked with numbers ;)

ps. quote (An opinion based on irrefutable facts commands respect, promotes education and provokes its readers to reconsider their own views.)

Is Fahrenheit 9/11 not complete facts taken from papers and news stories? I was told everywhere i looked that stuff was all true. and if it is wouldnt you consider bush a bad president?

Justin,

The problem, plain and simple, is that you are listening to extreme leftists, and they are your sole source of information. The Michael Moore thing is an EXCELLENT guage to understand this. His film was so ultra-extreme left-wing propoganda that even Democrats distance themselves from it. If the people you talk to thought that Michael Moore was presenting facts, that these are not the type of people you want to be listening to. Michael Moore's entire movie was filled with total fabrications (or "lies", in laymen's terms), and it was edited in such a way as to take what people said out of context to spin the meaning of what they said.

It's like if Bush said "Our enemies say that Bin Laden is a great person", Michael Moore would leave out the first part of the sentence, and it would become "Bin Laden is a great person". You'd say, "Oh my God, Bush thinks Bin Laden is a great person?? Wow, I hate Bush!"

Also, many young people are unfortunately affected by the media and teachers, the vast majority of whom are extreme lefties as well.

The result of young people being bombarded by constant left-wing propoganda is that they are conditioned to hate big business, hate Republicans, and be turned off to religion.

Often it takes many years of living in "the real world" in order to break free of that mindset. After you're forced to support yourself, and especially when you have kids of your own, you start to realize that all that crap people were telling you is bunk.

Luckily, with the advent of the Internet, it is possible for kids to get the real, unfiltered truth about things, but you still have to seek it out.

-Todd

How come theres only 9 comments on here but it says there are 24???
Everywhere ive read on the internet, even in movie reviews that were 'against' the film, they did say it was true stuff, just we have already heard it all. Todd, there are alot of facts we can toss around, but the one thing we all know, is that innocent people are dying everyday, due to this war.

OK, then please tell me one or two of these "facts" that the movie has in it. We'll talk about this "fact" and determine together if it is true or false.

Like I've told you before, the only innocent people that are dying are the poor iraqi citizens who are being bombed by the terrorists that have come into the country. The USA is trying to protect these people.

So Jason, you have two Lottery Post homework assignments:

1) List 1 or 2 "facts" from the Michael Moore movie, and,

2) Give me an example of what innocent people are dying as a result of the war. (And you can't say that when a suicide bomber kills innocent people that it's because of the war, because that's a terrorist who is targeting civilians, not something that we are doing.)

Justin:
Never feel that you have to apologize for being young; everybody is eighteen once. You are entitled to your opinions and have every right to express them freely. That's why Todd gave us the space for these blogs. And that's why we go to war.
Don't you see? Your friend is absolutely right; she is no longer a person, and she won't be one again until the day she receives her discharge. In order for her to perform efficiently as a soldier, it's necessary that she leave her identity behind. She is now only a part of a much larger entity. Her comrades will be depending on her to keep them alive, just as she will depend on them and, ultimately, they will all depend on their discipline and training. Her shiny boots are a symbol of that discipline and her pride in what she was able to accomplish. She is now fully prepared to take part in an historical event. Be proud of her; she's doing this for all of us. You didn't mention her Primary MOS, but she will likely be in a support mode somewhere behind the lines (radio technician, supply, etc.). When she comes home, she'll be your friend again, but you must realize that right now, she has more important things to do, and she'll need your support. If anyone is to blame for the current conflict, it's me, those I served with and the former President Bush and his cabinet of advisors. All things being equal, we should have finished the job we started back in 1991. At the time, we believed the honor of finishing off Saddam should go to the Iraqi people, but they failed in their attempts because we didn't deliver the support we had promised. That's the unvarnished truth. No excuses, no dancing around; that's what happened, and I apologize to you on behalf of my fellow servicemen (and women). All of us feel badly about what happened, but most of us would give anything to be there now.
While I'm proud that you take such an interest in world events, I would suggest that you try not to worry so much. Someone your age should not be developing ulcers, which are most often caused by stress. Try to train yourself not to worry about things you can't change. From where I sit, I can see that one problem is that the information you're getting is not complete. This is not your fault; limited information leads to limited assessments, no matter how old you are. The mainstream press is not to be implicitly trusted, as I'm sure you'll recall several recent scandals involving false reports filed by some very well-respected, award-winning journalists, such as Jayson Blair. Personally, I make it a practice to dismiss anything I'm unable to verify through other sources. Sometimes this can be a daunting task, but I never take anything I read in the papers or see on CNN at face value, because their reporters all work at the behest of their editors. This means that, no matter the content, there will always be part of the story that ends up on the floor due to space or time limitations.
Even Michael Moore has an agenda; he wants people to see his movies. That's how he makes money. While it's true that Fahrenheit 911 is a documentary, it is by no means unbiased, and for every fact that film contains, another was left out, or is incomplete. Read the second paragraph in Todd's reply below; it's absolutely true. This tactic is used every day, even in newspaper articles. They'll tell you part of the truth, if that, on the front page in bold type, and then, a few days later, they'll bury a retraction on page five of the sports section, apologizing for their "mistake." Mr. Moore is trying to make his viewers believe what he believes; that our president is a liar and an ineffectual leader. Truthfully, I agree with part of that statement; George Bush lies sometimes, but who doesn't? If we were to tally the lies Clinton told us against those of our current president, Mr. Bush would cannonized (nominated for sainthood). Let me remind you that Mr. Bush is a politician, and that's what all politicians do. They lie to secure their elections, they lie to their constituents and they lie to each other. That's the true essence of any politician, in any country in the world, not just in America. Each of them wants you to believe in his agenda. I do NOT agree that this makes him a bad president, because that in itself only puts him on equal footing with any other president in history (including George Washington). I voted for George Bush because I believe he's the best man for the job. I will support him, even when he makes mistakes, because I believe it's my duty as an American war veteran to do so. John Kerry simply doesn't have the experience or personality to be an effective world leader. In my opinion, the only man on the democratic ticket who had a chance against George Bush was General Clark. Kerry was an obvious second choice after Clark blew off the critical Iowa caucus during his own campaign. Still, I would have cast my vote for Mr. Bush, regardless of who his opponent was.
(continued above...)

(page 2)
You should be more concerned about the lies which spill from the mouths of your congressmen. They have the power to vote themselves pay raises whenever the mood strikes them; your president enjoys no such luxury. Mr. Bush has no authority to declare war; only congress can do that. Article I, section 8 of the U S Constitution states, "The Congress shall be vested with the power to declare war, and to raise and support military forces," which means that they are also responsible for deciding how much money we get to fight that war. Even so, the right of the president to protect the nation against terrorist threats is constitutional rather than statutory. Despite the journalistic mantras of Freedom of Speech and The People's Right to Know, there are certain things which go on in this country to which the average citizen has no claim. The Iraqi conflict is obviously not one of them, but most people forget that President Bush made noise about the impending attack for seven months, via nationally televised addresses, before it actually took place. This gave Saddam and his henchmen plenty of time to hide their weapons of mass destruction, most probably, I think, in Syria or Afghanistan. Something else you were never told is that Israel's Mossad, arguably the finest intelligence agency in the world, discovered the same information we did concerning Saddam's stockpile of WMD. This is a fact, but it's one you won't read in the papers now, because it would serve to quell the fire rather than fuel it. Controversy sells newspapers and attracts viewers. Don't believe it when people tell you that money isn't everything, because everything in this country depends on it, including news agencies.
You mentioned that Clinton lied about sex, but you are mistaken when you say that he didn't get people killed. Aside from Soldier of Fortune Magazine's monthly column, "Clinton Death Watch," it is my opinion that the tragedy of September 11, 2001, can be directly attributed to him. His sexual exploits throughout his tenure in the White House caused the rest of the world to view all Americans as immoral, godless hedonists who care more about having sex than they do about their religious or moral convictions. To this day, Clinton will accept no responsibility for his actions, and that, my friend, makes him a bad president.
I know it's difficult watching bad things happen to people you care about, and your dream is a fine one. However, you're correct when you say it will never happen. Some people are going to be unhappy. Without them, therapists would no longer be able to make a living. People are going to rob liquor stores and mug strangers. If they didn't, there would be less work for policemen, attorneys and judges. Some people won't fall in love, others will never realize their dreams. But if everyone did, there would no longer be a reason to dream. It's the struggle, the determination to overcome obstacles and setbacks that make dreams worth realizing. Without the struggle, there is no challenge, and without challenge, there can be no discovery or innovation. Nothing worthwhile ever comes easily, but then, it's not supposed to. What would your lyrics be like if you hadn't experienced the pain that brought them forth?

(page 3)
Try to understand that everything in the world is exactly as it should be, and that every conflict has a resolution. It's always been that way, and that's the way it will always be; that's just the way of the world. I'll say again that you don't have to like it, but if you refuse to accept it, you'll make your life far more difficult than necessary. If you truly want to change things, start with what you can change; start with something small. I suggest you begin by making an appointment with your doctor. Don't worry about how you'll pay him; the money will come to you. I'm not a spiritualist or psychic, but I want you to trust me on this. Think of it as an experiment in faith. I don't mean religious faith; you need to prove to yourself that everything always works out, one way or another. Several years ago I was in danger of losing my home because I didn't have the means to pay my property taxes. My family offered to loan me the money, but I refused. I think they worried about it more than I did. Sure enough, three days before the deadline, I received a check in the mail from my local electric co-op. It was an unexpected refund for overpayments for the previous two years. It covered my taxes and left a few bucks in my pocket besides. This is one example, but things like this happen all the time to nearly everyone I know. A friend of mine was ready to close his business when, out of nowhere, he received word that a government loan he had applied for more than a year previously had finally been approved. He had forgotten about it, but it came through when he needed it, not when he wanted it, and he just posted a record year in revenue.
So I'm asking you, as a personal favor, to make the appointment and to keep it. When you're feeling better, you can move on to change bigger things, but you'll have to be healthy to make those changes. Basically, you have two options: Go see your doctor now, while you're still healthy enough to walk into his office under your own power, or wait until you're admitted to the hospital, and then worry about how you're going to pay that bill. Since you know your condition won't improve over time, that pretty much narrows your options to one, doesn't it? If there is one thing in this country that's plentiful, it's money, so we can safely say that part isn't worth worrying over. If you're going to assume responsibility for your fellow man, it's critical to your own credibility that you take care of yourself first. Otherwise, how effective could you possibly be in trying to initiate the changes you have your eye on?
I'll close by addressing my quote, "An opinion based on irrefutable facts commands respect, promotes education and provokes its readers (or viewers) to reconsider their own views." Fahrenheit 911 does not contain irrefutable facts, but only half-truths, so it doesn't really apply to what I said, and vice-versa. You can make anyone believe anything, depending on how you present it. Most people believe what they hear and see because, in my opinion, they can't be troubled to think for themselves, since the TV and newspapers will tell them what to think and how to feel. This is why I NEVER watch television commercials; they're designed to engineer specific thoughts and emotions - MY thoughts; MY emotions - about a certain product or service. Don't fall into this trap. Think for yourself. Put yourself to some effort and verify what you see and hear. You're an intelligent young man, and you CAN make a difference, but give yourself some time to gain some life experience.
Keep me posted. Send me a PM if you want to. I'll listen to you.

Jim695

Jim, all i can say is WOW, you make a whole lot of sense.
As for bush, i was always under the assumption he directly made these decisions. I knew congress had a say, but i thought it was his decision, then they approved it. For my own personal reasons, i will never, ever like president bush, just from the times ive seen him on tv i see something in the way he talks, looks, and it makes me uneasy, but its just my opinion. As for the doctor, im going to try to get the willpower to go in there, i have a lot of days off work next week so it should be good to go, and my hospital will help me pay most (or all) of the bill because of my income, or at least let me pay in small payments over time.
You are so right in that the world could never be perfect.
And if my life didnt have its problems, if i wasnt so insecure, if i havent had my heart broken, been in love, been hated, had problems with my family, drugs, etc. where would i be now?
Like everyone else, going to college, getting a 'real' job.
I do believe you need to make a living, but i know i've got about 80 years left tops, and if i die poor i dont care, as long as i know i tried to fulfill my dreams, some peoples dreams are to be lawyers..cops...firemen..doctors..etc.
music has been everything to me, my ulcer/reflux has kept me from my electric guitar/band scenario for a good 3 months or more, but ive been playing an acoustic lately. ive been writing more complex but catchier, more heartfelt songs. im trying to lose the vibe of "you broke my heart" as i state in one of my latest songs where i quote "please dont break my heart...ive run out of lines....i've been writing the same song for almost three years.." i will post this and a few more songs probably tonight. Anyways i could go on about my life story forever, but i would like to say that you are very smart jim, and i thank you so much for taking the time to have this conversation with me.