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Wisconsin Lottery switches to computers to select winning numbers

Topic closed. 41 replies. Last post 12 years ago by CASH Only.

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Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
Chief Bottle Washer
New Jersey
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Posted: November 13, 2004, 3:18 pm - IP Logged

Chuck,

You're correct about the slot machines.  Even the ones that have spinning wheels are actually precisely controlled by computer.

The "listening to lottery players" topic is always an interesting one, because I always wonder what players they're listening to.  For example, the state of Pennsylvania recently came up with the much-maligned Match 6 game - based on "player input".  I personally don't think any normal lottery player could possibly conceive of that mess.  I think they heard "we want more prizes" and translated that thought into a twisting maze of confusing prizes.  Sure, there are more prizes, but I guarantee lots of winning tickets get thrown away because it's so hard to figure out if you won.

Maybe the lottery directors out there should interact with players in a real forum like this one - where everyone can see what the actual input is.  There are some good state lottery people who do lurk here and do listen to what people say, but the number is too small.  The people here are the types of players who play every day - just the type of player that the lottery should be listening to.

On your last point, I hope you're right.  I hope they really do listen to the players.  Your point about where fraud has taken place is correct, but you didn't point out the other major point of fraud: the people.  There have been a few instances of mechanical fraud, but the majority of fraud cases have been insider jobs - just like the recent Indiana case.  IMHO, computerized drawings create a more furtile ground for these types of fraud cases, because the average person observing a computerized drawing has absolutely no idea if they are looking at fraud.  In fact, malicious code could be hidden for quite a long time before anyone would notice.

I just think the lotteries should address these points in an open and honest way.  (And I think they should stick with the mechanical machines.)  In some cases they claim to have done studies, but I've never seen anything.  All the polls here have been very anti-computerized drawings.

 

Check the State Lottery Report Card
What grade did your lottery earn?

 

Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
Help eliminate computerized drawings!

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    Urbandale, IA
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    Posted: November 13, 2004, 3:51 pm - IP Logged

    Todd,

    I was having a little fun with the comment about fraud and mechanicals.  Of course, RNG's haven't been around long enough to get much history and they are happening at a time when the drawing process has become extremely controlled.  It certainly is people who commit the fraud - and the reason that the process, rather than the method, is the key to having a fair drawing.  I agree that there is just something about a mechanical drawing - kind of like watching the needle drop on a spinning LP or feeding the tape and watching the big reels turning on a reel-to-reel (wish I had kept that).  I miss that too but sending music from CD's or MP3's to the house stereo system is more convenient and gives me much greater control on the mix I want to hear.

    Note when I say that lotteries listen to players and I don't mean that they will always do everything that EVERY player wants.  PA's Match 6 is an example of a new design that is criticized but is doing pretty well.  Last I looked, they were close to 20 cents per week.  Those are considered good numbers for a little game these days.  It is those voting dollars that are key.  Still, a very few letters that make it to a lottery director can have an unproportionate effect.  I will bring up the comments here next time I get together with the directors and the talk turns to RNG's, but there many factors, and surveys of larger numbers of voices, that will be involved with the decision.

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      Posted: November 13, 2004, 6:22 pm - IP Logged
      Quote: Originally posted by chuck32 on November 13, 2004



      Triples and Quads not imaginative?  The most popular lotto numbers for nearly every state are 1-2-3-4-5-6.  Sometimes 5-10-15-20-25-30 comes close; then lines on the playslip (diagonals, etc.); followed by whatever numbers a popular lottery column might be predicting.  They do have the same chance as any other number, of course, just a lot of sharing going on.





      Very true. Here is the PA Cash 5 from earlier this year:



      Fri, February 6, 2004
      Cash 5: 5, 10, 15, 20, 25
      242 players matched 5 of 5, each receiving $439.00
      402 players matched 4 of 5, each receiving $110.50
      6,269 players matched 3 of 5, each receiving $7.50
      56,593 players matched 2 of 5, each receiving $1.00


        urbossmanpimpin's avatar - batman49
        Dallas, Texas
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        Posted: November 13, 2004, 7:17 pm - IP Logged
        Quote: Originally posted by Rick G on November 13, 2004



        Imagine if you went to a casino and every slot machine was just an LED readout of a random number instead of 7's, bars, cherries etc. on reels.  Or if you went to a  racetrack with no horses, just the announcer telling you the winner.  Or if you sat down at a blackjack table without cards or dealer, a roulette table with no wheel or ball, but just LED readouts that say "you win" or "you lose".  The gambler wants the full entertainment of the act, not just the final result.  They want balls jumping, reels spinning, wheels turning, horses running, etc....the bells and whistles (the dvents leading to the outcome) are the fun of the game and hence the attraction.

        It's like skipping the whole book and reading only the last chapter.  And adding insult to injury they're not even going to show you the last chapter, they're just going to tell you how it ended.  What kind of entertainment is that?  The highlight of my day is to see the beautiful and perky Linda Kollmeier doing the IL draws using those good old fashioned bouncing ping pong balls.  RNG's just don't affect me the same way and I would probably lose interest in the game.




        I agree with rick.....you make a good point. I would not play in a state with a RGN lottery.
          Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
          Chief Bottle Washer
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          Posted: November 13, 2004, 7:54 pm - IP Logged
          Quote: Originally posted by chuck32 on November 13, 2004



          ....I will bring up the comments here next time I get together with the directors and the talk turns to RNG's, but there many factors, and surveys of larger numbers of voices, that will be involved with the decision.





          There are many people here who will be greatly appreciative of that - thanks!

          By the way, you also have a number of Hot Lotto supporters here (including me), who would like to see that game expand to other jurisdictions.

           

          Check the State Lottery Report Card
          What grade did your lottery earn?

           

          Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
          Help eliminate computerized drawings!

            BobP's avatar - bobp avatar.png
            Dump Water Florida
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            Posted: November 15, 2004, 2:52 am - IP Logged

            For me I prefer the lottery to work they way it is supposed to with live hosts drawing balls.  If the game doesn't make enough money to do it right then find another game, don't cheap'n it with a secret draw behind computer graphics.

            I'd like to think the game is predictable to some extent and play as if it were.  I would play differently or not at all if a computer drew the numbers. 

            The various lotteries need to understand the needs of their players and consider some groups such as lottery software and system users want a game they can believe in.  As a store manager I knew 20% of the goods account for 80% of the sales, when you go into K-Mart those are the items they're always out of and they wonder why they end up in bankruptcy court.  Same applies to the lottery, they need to keep the regular players happy as a base line even if they occasionally score huge sales with rollovers.  BobP

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              clevelan
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              Posted: November 15, 2004, 7:39 am - IP Logged

                I'm just waiting for Ohio to switch to an RNG....when they do, I'm done for good!    I'm so fed up with losing the Pick 3/4 lottery that I have just about had enough!  I can't even break even as it is, so if they move to RNG,  I swear to god I will quit!  Some people are addicted so bad that they will keep playing and this is what the lottery officials are counting on.  Poor gambling addicts who can't stop playing.

                  I would NEVER consider playing anymore if I cant even view the drawings on tv.  What kind of idiot would continue to play when the lottery won't even allow them to witness the drawing on tv?    There won't be any such thing as "Hot/cold" digits anymore!  So you can forget about using your systems. 

                This is the ultimate edge for the state just to make sure that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer!  And that nobody stands a chance of winning too often.  This country is really getting screwed up in the last few years!  And I'm sure it will get even worse now!  Why play the daily lottery if you can't see the drawings on tv?  It was good enough for the last 30 years or so.  People are going to  have to wake up and stand up against the lottery.  DONT PLAY IT if they switch to RNG. 

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                clevelan
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                Posted: November 15, 2004, 7:56 am - IP Logged

                  I mean really.....IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK????  Just to be able to see the daily numbers drawn on tv after Wheel of Fortune every night?   I don't think this is too much to expect.  The state expects me to spend money on their lottery (thats almost impossible to win)  and now wants to give us all the shaft again.   I cant believe the state doesn't think it has to show the drawings on tv anymore!    If people don't have the guts to boycott the lottery then every state will be using electronic drawings in a few more months.   

                  four4me's avatar - gate1
                  MD
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                  Posted: November 19, 2004, 1:39 am - IP Logged
                  OK hears my take on RNG's. Say you have an RNG system in place. You have a central computer that spits out tickets random and people's choices. The data is stored on the central computer of all the numbers selected that day for pick 3, 4, and 5, drawings. The draw time is approximately 30 minutes after the cut off point. Now you have 30 minutes to doctor the rng to pay out a percentage of the take. The rng generator can receive a code or accept a program that will deselect any given amount of numbers and spit out a number that instead of paying out 3 million that day only selects the numbers so only 1 million is paid out. Who's to say that this won't happen or isn't happening already. Of course this is only one example of how it could be done. At least with balls we can see the drawing take place there are lots of people at the studio where the drawing takes place. Security measures in force.

                   

                   I know you said there are no cables attached to the rng computer but these days we don't need cables. Code could be transmitted through the air. Then there's the all important person that programed the rng in the first place who's to say that he/she didn't include a programed date for a specific number to be drawn. Or multiple dates and different numbers. Then there's the person who will service the pc he/she could enter a program to do the same thing. And anyone else that might come to be in contact with the pc. Now you can have several programs all designed to favor a select group of people or person. So they might get a little or a lot of cash depending on whether or not they were successful in pulling this off.  

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                    Posted: November 22, 2004, 9:57 am - IP Logged

                    Me too about Hot Lotto, even if it switches to RNG draws.

                      four4me's avatar - gate1
                      MD
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                      Posted: November 30, 2004, 12:22 am - IP Logged

                      no way no how would i play a pick 5/6/ Rng game. Bad enought they do it with pick 3 and 4 in many places now.

                      Big John says. You don't hit the number. The number hits you!!!!

                                     I'm not Big John, I'm Four4me, Big John's a friend.

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                        Posted: December 7, 2004, 4:22 pm - IP Logged

                        We see the future...