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Woman found guilty of stealing winning lottery ticket

Topic closed. 70 replies. Last post 11 years ago by CASH Only.

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Ottawa
Canada
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August 10, 2004
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Posted: December 15, 2005, 1:27 am - IP Logged

Raven,

The word "actually" appearing in Awesome's post is YOU playing with semantics in a big way.

The judgement came against her as it should have and the background that Awesome has provided precludes your conspiracy theory that Awesome had nothing to do with it. He/she was the first one to say that she was found guilty on this thread, and I already knew it this morning when I read this thread, also being from the Chicago area and getting the same newscasts. No one in this thread seemed to know that. What does Awesome gain by lying about his/her involvement? Notoriety...hah! Lawyer's fees...Yeah!

The judgement WAS made yesterday as televised on Chicago news as Awesome said. Awesome provided detailed descriptions of websites, facts and figures to prove his/her point.

The semantics game doesn't make sense to me here. Do you have a problem with Awesome that we are not aware of?

Since when does New Jersey do better news coverage of the IL lottery than WGN?

You are a lottery player right? What is the probability that one of the actual Wink Traders would appear at Lottery Post to discuss the case? Pretty low considering the population of the Earth.

When it comes to communication both written and spoken semantics plays an important part, particularly the way words are used or misused. The study of Human Behavior tells us that when attempting to deceive another, unnecessary adjectives will be used (such as actual) to validate what the deceiver knows in their own mind to be untrue.

It's like the scammers that send out emails they start out with: "This is not a scam..."

It's like Awe... said: "I'm an actual Trader..."

Anyone can surf the websites and present them as proof.

 

Raven,

In the other thread related to the Leal case, the first part of your first post was, 'Except in this forum where she is Guilty until proven Guilty...' In another post you staunchly defended Dora Leal on the grounds that she deserved the benefit of the doubt. I agree with that line of thinking, but if you're such a champion for giving people the benefit of the doubt, why don't you give awesomo2000 the same consideration? Sounds hypocritical to me.

 

 

 
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    Chicago, IL
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    Posted: December 15, 2005, 11:13 am - IP Logged

    He's mad cause I called him an idiot yesterday.

    People that are mad enter into communication using insults.

    The only communications you have entered into since I called you an idiot have been to expose me as a liar.  Give up your vendetta Raven.  Also, as you noticed before, it is true that I joined this forum specifically to discuss this case.  Never had a reason to post on a lottery forum before.  I have "actually" never posted on any forum before this.  Analyze that line.  I found this forum as I was searching the internet to see if they used my name in any of the articles, as my friend told me.  I haven't yet found it.  I've stated it many times before: it doesn't matter if you believe me or not.  The facts in the case are still the same.  The media has done a decent job of presenting the main facts.

    To the guy who worked at the bot (Chicago Board of Trade): As you rightfully noted, most people don't realize the leniancy that people down there grant their coworkers.  (I actually worked at the bot for 6 months in the 5-year T-bond options pit.  Another one for you to analyze Raven.)  You have to absolutely trust your team to run a successful trading operation, whether you are brokers or market makers.  Pools are a way of life on the floor.  Not just lottery pools, but all sorts of sports pools and whatever other types of pools the traders can think of.  A common type of pool is called a square pool, in which a page is divided into 100 squares.  The squares are then sold to traders on the floor, usually via a young hot runner chick (she always gets paid something at the end regardless of who wins).  The winner is then randomly chosen using the last digits in sporting event scores.  I once heard of a $10,000 per square Super Bowl pool (that's right, $1 million in cash) in which the guy at the Merc collecting money was never seen again.  Not sure if that's true.  A clerk's job description is pretty loose.  Most of them spend a lot of time doing whatever the trader needs done, so that he doesn't have to leave the pit.  Checking lottery tickets would be a normal part of a clerk's job, as would buying water, gum, food, etc.  The trader ALWAYS buys the clerk food if he brings you your food.  I learned afterwards that Tobin had given Dora our lottery pool tickets to check multiple times before.  It is possible that she had been stealing little winners from us for a while.  Also as you noted, if the runner/clerk brings back a big winner, everyone in the pool throws him/her some cash.  We probably would've given Dora $2 to 3 hundred  each, just for safely escorting the ticket back to us.  We were never given that opportunity.

    Here's a few interesting facts about Dora.  During the trial, I was speaking with the owner of the A & B Tobacco store.  She told me that since Dora bought maybe 50 waters a day (since she had no real job all she did was go buy waters for people in the OEX pit all day), she negotiated a better price that the $1 that most people paid.  She then kept the difference, charging the traders $1 and only paying 75 cents to the people at the A & B Tobacco store.  She may not have had a criminal history, but she did have a history of being dishonest.  That was not mentioned in the trial (as far as I know).

    Also, no , she dressed like a street walker.  Her outfits were so revealing and so gross that when she was on the escalator going to the CBOE floor, every trader behind her would turn around, so as not to accidentally catch a glimpse of something ghastly.

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      Posted: December 15, 2005, 11:46 am - IP Logged

      awesomo2000

      There are problems with making analogies in the legal system - setting that aside.  Suppose you gave her a check for $190 to go and purchase the tickets.  A check would be similar to a lottery ticket.  It can be altered and exchanged for cash.  Then suppose she lost the check.  Would you then have her arrested because you believe - due to inconsistencies - but with no real proof - that she pocketed the check?  Or would you just stop payment on the check and perhaps fire her?

      Some people are criminals.  Some are scum of the earth.  Perhaps many deserve a criminal record and prison.  Some deserve the death penalty.  I think this was extreme for all my previous reasons.

      By the way, jurists have voted in defiance of a particular law many times.  It's one way they can exercise their authority and show their displeasure with the system.

      This is my last comment for this topic.


      Your analogy with the check is exactly the same analagy he lawyer used.  Only she said a lottery ticket would be similar to a check made out to cash, that someone stole from you.  Only, while it can be canceled so the thief may not be paid, it can only in select situations be rewritten (we got lucky).  We did put a lien on the ticket when this happened.  We sent the commission a statement, which we all signed.  This, coupled with a police report, convinced the lottery commission to refrain from paying the ticket (in the case that it did show up) until the courts got to the bottom of the situation.  Unfortunately the commission for over a year and a half simply told us that we wouldn't be paid.  So not only had over $10 thousand in lottery winnings been denied to each of us, but we were out lawyer fees as well.  So we did incur definate damages due to, in your opinion the not guilty, Dora Leal.  The State's Attourney told us that she had rarely prosecuted such a one sided case.  It was only after the Judge (who is really quite the rational, fair, take no type) saw the evidence was overwhelming against Dora and for us that he highly recommended to the commission that they pay us.  That was six weeks ago.  We still never saw our money until she was convicted though.  I have yet to collect my check from the lawyer, but he does have them.  No harm, no foul is absolute Bullsh*t in this case.  She almost cost me more than $12 thousand. 

        RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
        mid-Ohio
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        Posted: December 15, 2005, 1:33 pm - IP Logged

        Even when Cleveland's Elecia Battle falsely claimed she lost the $162,000,0000 MegaMillion ticket, she never touched or signed the ticket or claimed the money but she broke laws and was punished.  When Dora Leal tried to steal those lottery winnings, her scheme was a crime and she should be punished.  I get the idea from some of the comments made that some people think stealing lottery winnings isn't the same as stealing real money and people who try it aren't real crooks.  Trying to steal anything that doesn't belong to you make you a crook and Dora Leal is a crook that got caught. She may not spend much time in jail, but she will aways be a crook that got caught.

         * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
           
                     Evil Looking       

          emilyg's avatar - cat anm.gif

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          Posted: December 15, 2005, 1:35 pm - IP Logged

          Even when Cleveland's Elecia Battle falsely claimed she lost the $162,000,0000 MegaMillion ticket, she never touched or signed the ticket or claimed the money but she broke laws and was punished.  When Dora Leal tried to steal those lottery winnings, her scheme was a crime and she should be punished.  I get the idea from some of the comments made that some people think stealing lottery winnings isn't the same as stealing real money and people who try it aren't real crooks.  Trying to steal anything that does belong to you make you a crook and Dora Leal is a crook that got caught. She may not spend much time in jail, but she will aways be a crook that got caught.

          I Agree!                                  I Agree!

          love to nibble those micey feet.

           

                                       

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            Posted: December 15, 2005, 5:54 pm - IP Logged

            Even when Cleveland's Elecia Battle falsely claimed she lost the $162,000,0000 MegaMillion ticket, she never touched or signed the ticket or claimed the money but she broke laws and was punished.  When Dora Leal tried to steal those lottery winnings, her scheme was a crime and she should be punished.  I get the idea from some of the comments made that some people think stealing lottery winnings isn't the same as stealing real money and people who try it aren't real crooks.  Trying to steal anything that doesn't belong to you make you a crook and Dora Leal is a crook that got caught. She may not spend much time in jail, but she will aways be a crook that got caught.

            See Ya!12/15/05

            "RJ".........Where does it say that the Prosecution was able to "prove" that she stole the winning ticket and has it in her possession???....She never personally claimed the winnings...She claims she lost the ticket.....

            Her Defense Team was poor, I'll give you that.....And I'm not sanctioning stealing anything.......

              DirtyWrat's avatar - dirty rat_3051bs_mor.jpg
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              Posted: December 15, 2005, 6:24 pm - IP Logged

              Even when Cleveland's Elecia Battle falsely claimed she lost the $162,000,0000 MegaMillion ticket, she never touched or signed the ticket or claimed the money but she broke laws and was punished.  When Dora Leal tried to steal those lottery winnings, her scheme was a crime and she should be punished.  I get the idea from some of the comments made that some people think stealing lottery winnings isn't the same as stealing real money and people who try it aren't real crooks.  Trying to steal anything that doesn't belong to you make you a crook and Dora Leal is a crook that got caught. She may not spend much time in jail, but she will aways be a crook that got caught.

              I Agree!  It's easy to lay the blame on someone else. People need to take responsibility for their actions.

              RJOh is right; she's a crook who got caught, and she needs to do some time.

               

              With the lottery I get all the exercise I need.

                                In futility.


                RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
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                Posted: December 15, 2005, 6:40 pm - IP Logged

                Even when Cleveland's Elecia Battle falsely claimed she lost the $162,000,0000 MegaMillion ticket, she never touched or signed the ticket or claimed the money but she broke laws and was punished.  When Dora Leal tried to steal those lottery winnings, her scheme was a crime and she should be punished.  I get the idea from some of the comments made that some people think stealing lottery winnings isn't the same as stealing real money and people who try it aren't real crooks.  Trying to steal anything that doesn't belong to you make you a crook and Dora Leal is a crook that got caught. She may not spend much time in jail, but she will aways be a crook that got caught.

                See Ya!12/15/05

                "RJ".........Where does it say that the Prosecution was able to "prove" that she stole the winning ticket and has it in her possession???....She never personally claimed the winnings...She claims she lost the ticket.....

                Her Defense Team was poor, I'll give you that.....And I'm not sanctioning stealing anything.......

                She was convicted of lying about never having the winning ticket that witnesses testified she checked at the store terminal and was told it was a big winner which she never told the actual owners of the ticket.  Had she just lost the ticket and told her boss she confirmed it was a winner before she misplaced it, the real owners using their photo copy of the tickets could have collected their money two years ago and there would have never been a trial.

                I'm sure if the real ticket owners had not had proof that the ticket was among the tickets they purchased, she would have later claimed those winnings for herself.  She created a lot of unnecessary trouble for herself and the real owners of the ticket.  She's a dumb crook.

                 * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                   
                             Evil Looking       

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                  Posted: December 15, 2005, 7:22 pm - IP Logged

                  Libra,

                  Are you related to Dora, or simply playing Devil's advocate?  She had an entire store full of people who witnessed her win the ticket and take possession of it.  We put a lien on the ticket after it was "lost" so that Dora couldn't try to cash it.  So, she never tried to cash it because after we found out about her plan we took that option away from her.  Get it?  After winning in the store, she went around to everyone still in the store and said something like, "Please don't say anything to anyone about this."  Problem is I witnessed her win and reported it to the group.  I left the store too fast for her to give me that BS line.  After confronted, her first story to us was that her friend won, not her.  No doubt that was an attempt to differentiate the winning ticket from our tickets so she could cash it (then cut her friend in for her efforts).  Then when it became clear that everyone knew she won, she just sat there and said, "I don't know what you are talking about?  What $175 thousand?  What ticket are you talking about?"  She lied over and over again, changing her story every time her last one was proved wrong.  These facts are mighty incriminating.  When multiple witnesses testify to their truth they prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that she had criminal intentions and used lies and deception to go through with her plan.  We gave her every chance to do the right thing.  Only after she continually claimed ignorance were we forced to bring the cops into it.  At that point the process couldn't be reversed.  She is no victim.  Her trial was fair, SHE IS GUILTY!!  She cost me time, money, and headaches.  She's a horrible person who brought a horrible situation onto herself.  I don't know anything about people being guilty until proven innocent.  Fortunately that wasn't an issue in this case, because she did steal from us.  A lottery ticket is as good as a stack of cash equal to its winnings.  Whether she ever gets the chance to spend the cash is irrelevant.  For a long time it looked as though we (the 16 traders who bought the tickets) wouldn't be paid, at all.  We are still out about $20 grand in lawyer fees that we wouldn't have had to pay for if not for Dora's moral lapse.

                  RjOH is 100% right in that if she simply came forward at any time and either gave us the ticket back or admitted to destroying it noone would've pressed charges and we would've had our money 2 years ago.  She lied, cheated, and stole.  Then was never able to admit her error, which would've saved her all this trouble.  The prosecutor easily proved her guilt because it was obvious.  Don't know how it can be more clear.  Dora's lawyer might have been poor, but he was no public defender.  He was a regular $250 per hour lawyer.  You want to know why they used the sick dog defense?  Its becasue they had nothing else.  She's GUILTY, GUILTY, GUILTY.

                    time*treat's avatar - radar

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                    Posted: December 16, 2005, 7:55 am - IP Logged

                    If only they had video of her giving that witness a high five in the store!!!

                    Banana 

                     

                    The ticket is the video. Let's say you take 50 tickets in for validation. I'm sure there is a PC somewhere saying ticket number x, validated at store y, worth amout z, validation time-and-date. <-- probably to tenths of a second.

                    It is highly unlikely that you would:

                    a. validate tickets 1 through 23 then
                    b. get out of line then
                    c. someone else gets in line, has the winner, finally
                    d. you get back in line and validate tickets 24-50. Opps, only $17.00 won, guys!

                    the time-date stamp will show the lag (or lack of) between groups of tickets. Think about how they know where a winning ticket was sold. Do they rely on video? Witnesses? No.

                     

                    In neo-conned Amerika, bank robs you.
                    Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be the name of a convenience store, not a govnoment agency.

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                      Posted: December 16, 2005, 2:20 pm - IP Logged

                      We tried to get the video.  Turns out they haven't recorded anything on their camera since 1997.  The camera is only for show.

                        Raven62's avatar - binary
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                        Posted: December 18, 2005, 2:01 pm - IP Logged

                        If only they had video of her giving that witness a high five in the store!!!

                        Banana 

                         

                        Crime Scene

                         

                          Rick G's avatar - avatar 1766.jpg
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                          Posted: December 18, 2005, 4:06 pm - IP Logged

                          The JURY found her guilty. The excuse of a poor defense is just that, a poor excuse, just as her sick dog and other stories made up in the defense in her case.

                          I really don't understand the BLIND defense of this woman on this forum. She was caught red-handed, video cameras or not. Are you insinuating that all witnesses in trials are liars? You put your hand on a bible and take the oath. All of these people felt like lying on the witness stand risking jail time for perjury? I think not.

                          I hope to God that these "defenders" on this forum are not on any jury involving murder, rape, assault, etc.

                          We've seen misjustice before...please recuse yourselves from jury duty so this doesn't become a regular occurrence in our society. In fact, do us all a favor and print this whole thread and bring it to the courtroom when you are being selected for jury duty. I'm sure the Judge, DA and Defense Attorney will agree...you are not qualified to be a jurist.


                          Posted 4/6:  IL Pick 3 midday and evening until they hit:  555, 347 (str8).


                            konane's avatar - wallace
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                            Posted: December 18, 2005, 4:29 pm - IP Logged

                            The JURY found her guilty. The excuse of a poor defense is just that, a poor excuse, just as her sick dog and other stories made up in the defense in her case.

                            I really don't understand the BLIND defense of this woman on this forum. She was caught red-handed, video cameras or not. Are you insinuating that all witnesses in trials are liars? You put your hand on a bible and take the oath. All of these people felt like lying on the witness stand risking jail time for perjury? I think not.

                            I hope to God that these "defenders" on this forum are not on any jury involving murder, rape, assault, etc.

                            We've seen misjustice before...please recuse yourselves from jury duty so this doesn't become a regular occurrence in our society. In fact, do us all a favor and print this whole thread and bring it to the courtroom when you are being selected for jury duty. I'm sure the Judge, DA and Defense Attorney will agree...you are not qualified to be a jurist.


                            I Agree!

                            Good luck to everyone!

                              RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
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                              Posted: December 18, 2005, 5:25 pm - IP Logged

                              The JURY found her guilty. The excuse of a poor defense is just that, a poor excuse, just as her sick dog and other stories made up in the defense in her case.

                              I really don't understand the BLIND defense of this woman on this forum. She was caught red-handed, video cameras or not. Are you insinuating that all witnesses in trials are liars? You put your hand on a bible and take the oath. All of these people felt like lying on the witness stand risking jail time for perjury? I think not.

                              I hope to God that these "defenders" on this forum are not on any jury involving murder, rape, assault, etc.

                              We've seen misjustice before...please recuse yourselves from jury duty so this doesn't become a regular occurrence in our society. In fact, do us all a favor and print this whole thread and bring it to the courtroom when you are being selected for jury duty. I'm sure the Judge, DA and Defense Attorney will agree...you are not qualified to be a jurist.


                              I think what we have here are a bunch of people who themselves are free loaders and thieves expressing an opinion from their point of view.  They would probably do the same thing if they had a chance and would expect some sympathy if they got caught because they actually believe people who work and earn what they own have had all the breaks that they never had.

                              These are the kinds of people I like to stay as far away from as possible.

                               * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                                 
                                           Evil Looking