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New York Lottery won't pay $25,000 for taped-up scratch-off ticket

Topic closed. 52 replies. Last post 9 years ago by OldSchoolPa.

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KyMystikal's avatar - 1457224010054
Florence, Alabama
United States
Member #8658
November 13, 2004
1993 Posts
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Posted: October 24, 2007, 12:04 pm - IP Logged

I believe the lady's story.  She bought the tickets from a machine and the tickets came out torn.   

She honestly believed the torn tickets were two parts of a winning ticket, thus she taped the two halves together.  It was a foreseeable honest mistake on her part.   

Perhaps mistakes like this have happened in the past.  The machine may be defective and the lottery operators knew it, and yet they didn't do anything to correct the defect.  I would argue that it is gross negligence, to say the least, on the part of the lottery operators to continue taking the players' money, knowing fully well that the machine spews out torn tickets.

Did that gross negligence cause damage to the player?  Yes, at least $2.00 which was the price of the ticket. 

Is she entitled to the $25,000 prize?   Maybe.  If she can convince the judge that the prize was apparent on the face of the ticket;  that a reasonable person would be led to believe that the ticket was indeed a winner; and that the mistake was caused by the lottery's  gross negligence tantamount to fraud (a hard sell).  Written disclaimer of the lottery, notwithstanding.

She could also be entitled to other damages; afterall, she was subject to public ridicule by the lottery when she tried to claim the prize.Ponder

This sounds like a good option to what may have happened and I could believe this. It is obvious to me that it is two completely different tickets. Most of the posts have been about the numbers not matching and one was about the rules being doubled at the tear, but no one has said anything about the line under the box where the winning numbers to match are. That clearly shows that it is 2 different tickets. I just don't understand why they didn't they scan the barcode to see if it was a winner and if they did and it said it was a losing ticket why she didn't believe it. It's not like she is in Indiana or Tennessee, she should be able to trust the computers there to tell her it is a winner or loser. Oh and about the spent money that was foolish. It kind of reminds me of a episode of the tv show "Martin" when he won the lottery and bought a fur coats and a whole bunch of things then later found out that about 10 or more other people also won and his prize wasn't that much. She should be able to get her $3000 for the down payment for the Lexus back if she hasn't got the car yet and the $1000 per grand child was promised so it hasn't been spent. The $700 for lottery was lost and maybe more is the state takes her to court. I'm sure that if they investigate and find that it was a simple mistake as csfb said nothing will happen to her.

I love doubles and remember, it's just a game!!!!!!

    justxploring's avatar - villiarna
    Wandering Aimlessly
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    Posted: October 24, 2007, 12:40 pm - IP Logged

    csfb writes "I believe the lady's story.  She bought the tickets from a machine and the tickets came out torn."   

    You might be correct.  I have no idea if she is telling the truth.  I also agree that her picture shouldn't be in the paper, but perhaps it was she who wanted the publicity, not the lottery.  I'm guessing they want to keep these matters quiet because it hurts business if people lose faith in its integrity.  I usually don't call any person an idiot.  Unfortunately, this is the internet and these stories are published for our opinions.  I don't know the lady, and it's not my place to judge her. However, she only won $25,000 less taxes and went out on a shopping spree. Maybe it was a used Lexus.  My point was, if someone has bills to pay, I can see her running out and taking care of debts, but going out the next day to buy a car, spending another $700, etc., makes her a fool in my humble opinion.  Also, if that happened to me, I'd immediately ask for a store manager to verify the ticket's validity.  I won't accept a badly torn bill from a cashier, especially if it's been taped, but we're all different. 

      RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
      mid-Ohio
      United States
      Member #9
      March 24, 2001
      19817 Posts
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      Posted: October 24, 2007, 12:52 pm - IP Logged

      This situation brings up a potential problematic scenario.  What happens if one of the halves was actually part of a winning ticket and the other half was bought by someone else?  Would the person who erroneously showed up to claim a prize gets the whole prize or would an effort be made to find the owner of the other half and split the prize?

       * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
         
                   Evil Looking       

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        Kingston, Ontario
        Canada
        Member #46867
        October 5, 2006
        106 Posts
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        Posted: October 24, 2007, 12:53 pm - IP Logged

        Defintely a fake, she should have noticed, 10 and 40 as the others were saying.  Looks good on her.   Some people still don't triple check their tickets.   I know if I had won, I'd be scratching every latex area, totally making sure it all matched.   I also would have the store validate it first and then take winning prize form to lottery offices.  Save me $700 and the gas ...  

        "Together We're Making Good Things Happen,  Ontario's Lotteries...WE ALL WIN"

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          New Member
          Massapequa Park
          United States
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          October 24, 2007
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          Posted: October 24, 2007, 1:25 pm - IP Logged

          This woman is an idiot. How much did she think she would get after taxes anyway. This is clearly fraud and they should press charges.

            Guest


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            January 1, 2000
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            Posted: October 24, 2007, 2:12 pm - IP Logged

            This situation brings up a potential problematic scenario.  What happens if one of the halves was actually part of a winning ticket and the other half was bought by someone else?  Would the person who erroneously showed up to claim a prize gets the whole prize or would an effort be made to find the owner of the other half and split the prize?

            The person who had the 1/2 of the ticket with the barcode on it would be proclaimed the winner and paid.The other person might or might not be refunded the price of the ticket.Most states allow the lottery to pay "only the price of the ticket" if there is a dispute.

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              NY
              United States
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              October 16, 2005
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              Posted: October 24, 2007, 2:30 pm - IP Logged

              I believe the lady's story.  She bought the tickets from a machine and the tickets came out torn.   

              She honestly believed the torn tickets were two parts of a winning ticket, thus she taped the two halves together.  It was a foreseeable honest mistake on her part.   

              Perhaps mistakes like this have happened in the past.  The machine may be defective and the lottery operators knew it, and yet they didn't do anything to correct the defect.  I would argue that it is gross negligence, to say the least, on the part of the lottery operators to continue taking the players' money, knowing fully well that the machine spews out torn tickets.

              Did that gross negligence cause damage to the player?  Yes, at least $2.00 which was the price of the ticket. 

              Is she entitled to the $25,000 prize?   Maybe.  If she can convince the judge that the prize was apparent on the face of the ticket;  that a reasonable person would be led to believe that the ticket was indeed a winner; and that the mistake was caused by the lottery's  gross negligence tantamount to fraud (a hard sell).  Written disclaimer of the lottery, notwithstanding.

              She could also be entitled to other damages; afterall, she was subject to public ridicule by the lottery when she tried to claim the prize.Ponder

              I've got no problem believing her story (though I then have to assume she's not very bright), but that doesn't mean she's entitled to anything more than a new ticket even if she truly believes she has a winning ticket. She may be missing part of the ticket, but the barcode is enough to determine if it's a winner or not. As far as the other comment about trusting the computers, that's exactly how retailers validate tickets, and the scanner won't know that part of the ticket is missing. I'll note that it's interesting to see nearly universal agreement about the barcode when the ticket is obviously fake, but in cases where a legitimate ticket looks like a winner most people think it should be paid despite a barcode that identifies it as a loser. I'm guessing that's why the lottery has pointed out that the ticket is obviously not real, rather than relying on the barcode.

              Even though the barcode cleary shows that it's a losing ticket it would be fair for the lottery to give her another ticket, since it's also an obviously damaged ticket. Even if the machine is known to occasionaly damage a ticket, there's absolutely nothing to indicate that there's any negligence at all, and certainly not gross negligence. Mechancial equipment is never 100% reliable, and it's clear that the lottery's only responsibility is to make sure that the player recieves a valid ticket. If the first one is defective for some reason the only required remedy is to replace it with a good one.

                RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
                mid-Ohio
                United States
                Member #9
                March 24, 2001
                19817 Posts
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                Posted: October 24, 2007, 3:18 pm - IP Logged

                "Manzitto's lawyer, Arnold, doesn't dispute that the colored lines don't match, but argued that that is how the ticket was sold."

                Patricia Manzitto and her lawyer know the ticket is not a winning ticket but they are trying to make an argument similar to that of a Florida woman two years ago when she bought a scratch-off on which a number hadn't been completely printed and matched another one on her ticket for $250K. http://www.lotterypost.com/news/117317  Even though the words under the numbers described two different numbers she argued that since her ticket on first glance could be mistaken for a winner, it should be treated as one.

                Manzitto's lawyer is arguing that if the two halves sold to her client could be made to look like a winner on first glance then it should be treated as one.  That's a losing argument every time it's made, courts have said that lotteries don't have to reward people who can prove they they really thought they won when they really didn't even if it's not their fault.

                 * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                   
                             Evil Looking       

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                  Posted: October 24, 2007, 7:04 pm - IP Logged

                  I doubt the part of the story about the MACHINE tearing the ticket because if she bought $6 so 3 tkts came out, in order to have mismatching halves from 2 different tickets then at least 2 came out torn. Not sure how that would happen but maybe it could. It's also possible to pull it sideways when it is sticking 1/2 out. IN general I avoid those dispensers because the tickets are sometimes older ones where the top prizes might have been won already. I'd have gone to a manager immediately and showed thm. It's odd that she took the torn ticket(s) home and THEN checked? And yes the barcode is the final say in any case. Some places have a self-serve kiosk where you can scan them yourself.

                  We are assuming (people in NY would know) do the tickets come out vertical or horizontal? What happens IF the ticket is torn through the barcode?

                    computerhead723's avatar - lightbulb
                    Buffalo
                    United States
                    Member #54397
                    August 17, 2007
                    245 Posts
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                    Posted: October 24, 2007, 10:27 pm - IP Logged

                    csfb writes "I believe the lady's story.  She bought the tickets from a machine and the tickets came out torn."   

                    You might be correct.  I have no idea if she is telling the truth.  I also agree that her picture shouldn't be in the paper, but perhaps it was she who wanted the publicity, not the lottery.  I'm guessing they want to keep these matters quiet because it hurts business if people lose faith in its integrity.  I usually don't call any person an idiot.  Unfortunately, this is the internet and these stories are published for our opinions.  I don't know the lady, and it's not my place to judge her. However, she only won $25,000 less taxes and went out on a shopping spree. Maybe it was a used Lexus.  My point was, if someone has bills to pay, I can see her running out and taking care of debts, but going out the next day to buy a car, spending another $700, etc., makes her a fool in my humble opinion.  Also, if that happened to me, I'd immediately ask for a store manager to verify the ticket's validity.  I won't accept a badly torn bill from a cashier, especially if it's been taped, but we're all different. 

                    Thank-you  for  saying  this  about  that  lady  ...we  are  Professional  players  and  she  is  nott  as  well  informed  as  we  are  here   on  LP  ;

                    Codes  , were  never  a  consideration  for  this  grandmother, who  promised  her  grandkids  a  1000 ea.  that  does  not  sound  like  a  liar  to  me .....she  will  be   better   and  more  informed  player  after  this  and  her  case  wont  go   un-noticed :

                    HER  FIRST  THOUGHT  WAS  TO  TRUST  THE  SYSTEM  ,JUST  LIKE  MILLIONS  OF  PEOPLE  WHO   TRUSTED  THE  911  COMMISSION ,ONLY  TO  FIND  OUT  LATTER  THE  FACTS  JUST   DON'T   ADD  UP ;

                    BEING  doubtfull  is  healthy medicine ;  She  failed  to  first  double  check  her  evidence that  being, the  25,000.00  ticket  just  in  case  the  ripped  ticket  was  not  accepted;

                      computerhead723's avatar - lightbulb
                      Buffalo
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                      August 17, 2007
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                      Posted: October 24, 2007, 11:31 pm - IP Logged

                      Yes, most interesting. 

                      TODD   what's  with  the    pictures   of  the   sea  creature???///

                      I  could   see - PSYKOMO  -  doing  that ;

                       but  , I  don't  get  it  and  its  making  me  afraid  to  go in the   water ; 

                        Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
                        Chief Bottle Washer
                        New Jersey
                        United States
                        Member #1
                        May 31, 2000
                        23260 Posts
                        Online
                        Posted: October 25, 2007, 6:57 am - IP Logged

                        TODD   what's  with  the    pictures   of  the   sea  creature???///

                        I  could   see - PSYKOMO  -  doing  that ;

                         but  , I  don't  get  it  and  its  making  me  afraid  to  go in the   water ; 

                        For those who don't get the subtle message, my pictures had as much relevancy to what I was posting as reposting the ticket images had in the messages of the person I was responding to.

                         

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                          Kentucky
                          United States
                          Member #32652
                          February 14, 2006
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                          Posted: October 25, 2007, 11:10 am - IP Logged

                          Thank-you  for  saying  this  about  that  lady  ...we  are  Professional  players  and  she  is  nott  as  well  informed  as  we  are  here   on  LP  ;

                          Codes  , were  never  a  consideration  for  this  grandmother, who  promised  her  grandkids  a  1000 ea.  that  does  not  sound  like  a  liar  to  me .....she  will  be   better   and  more  informed  player  after  this  and  her  case  wont  go   un-noticed :

                          HER  FIRST  THOUGHT  WAS  TO  TRUST  THE  SYSTEM  ,JUST  LIKE  MILLIONS  OF  PEOPLE  WHO   TRUSTED  THE  911  COMMISSION ,ONLY  TO  FIND  OUT  LATTER  THE  FACTS  JUST   DON'T   ADD  UP ;

                          BEING  doubtfull  is  healthy medicine ;  She  failed  to  first  double  check  her  evidence that  being, the  25,000.00  ticket  just  in  case  the  ripped  ticket  was  not  accepted;

                          "we  are  Professional  players and she  is  nott  as  well  informed  as  we  are  here   on  LP  ;

                          I seriously doubt that you or anybody else makes a living playing the lottery but it's true that LP members should know enough not to tape two halves from two different tickets together whether the ticket dispenser cut them or not. If you look closely, you'll notice when she taped them, she matched up the back side.

                          Anybody over 21 can buy a lottery ticket and there are no rules saying they actually have to know what they're buying. It's like when you see a long line at the checkout counter and hear "price check on aisle 9" because somebody had to grab the only item without a price on it.

                           "HER  FIRST  THOUGHT  WAS  TO  TRUST  THE  SYSTEM  ,"

                          Or more like "try to beat" the system. Do you honestly believe that was one ticket cut accidentally?

                          "JUST  LIKE  MILLIONS  OF  PEOPLE  WHO   TRUSTED  THE  911  COMMISSION ,ONLY  TO  FIND  OUT  LATTER  THE  FACTS  JUST   DON'T   ADD  UP ;

                          Who shot JR Ewing?

                            Avatar
                            Kentucky
                            United States
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                            February 14, 2006
                            7297 Posts
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                            Posted: October 25, 2007, 11:23 am - IP Logged

                            "Manzitto's lawyer, Arnold, doesn't dispute that the colored lines don't match, but argued that that is how the ticket was sold."

                            Patricia Manzitto and her lawyer know the ticket is not a winning ticket but they are trying to make an argument similar to that of a Florida woman two years ago when she bought a scratch-off on which a number hadn't been completely printed and matched another one on her ticket for $250K. http://www.lotterypost.com/news/117317  Even though the words under the numbers described two different numbers she argued that since her ticket on first glance could be mistaken for a winner, it should be treated as one.

                            Manzitto's lawyer is arguing that if the two halves sold to her client could be made to look like a winner on first glance then it should be treated as one.  That's a losing argument every time it's made, courts have said that lotteries don't have to reward people who can prove they they really thought they won when they really didn't even if it's not their fault.

                            "Patricia Manzitto and her lawyer know the ticket is not a winning ticket but they are trying to make an argument similar to that of a Florida woman two years ago when she bought a scratch-off on which a number hadn't been completely printed and matched another one on her ticket for $250K."

                            Was that the case where the "3" was scratched off from "13" to make it look like a "1"? 

                            "Manzitto's lawyer is arguing that if the two halves sold to her client could be made to look like a winner on first glance then it should be treated as one."

                            Wonder what Manzitto will argue if his client is charged with fraud for cutting and taping two losing tickets together and trying to claim it as a winner?

                              computerhead723's avatar - lightbulb
                              Buffalo
                              United States
                              Member #54397
                              August 17, 2007
                              245 Posts
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                              Posted: October 25, 2007, 7:12 pm - IP Logged

                              TODD   what's  with  the    pictures   of  the   sea  creature???///

                              I  could   see - PSYKOMO  -  doing  that ;

                               but  , I  don't  get  it  and  its  making  me  afraid  to  go in the   water ; 

                              Todd  how  did  you  get  that  ticket  copy??/ Thats   good   reporting  I  have  never  seen  a  TV  or  newspaper  account  of  this  story.......this   woman  pride  was  hurt  so  she   Sued  the  Lottery;