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Clerk arrested in undercover Lottery sting

Topic closed. 28 replies. Last post 7 years ago by KY Floyd.

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TheGameGrl's avatar - character catafly.jpg
A long and winding road
United States
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June 10, 2005
4529 Posts
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Posted: April 21, 2010, 6:38 pm - IP Logged

In PA with the introduction of the scanners, it can only read one type of bar code scans. The instant tickets carry a Box with a different set of scans to be read. Consider it an entirely different type of bar code language. Sorta like it can read english but not gaelic.

I seriously would love to be one of the compliance ticket folks, here is what I would do extra...after they read the ticket and proclaimed the amount I would get the meager cash they claimed it was ...then  ****** Ask them for the ticket so it can be signed on the back ! Boy would that get their goats :) You would only be complying with the" sign the back of the ticket" rule. Naturally It would take some finesse to pull that off as their faces would turn a shade of white :)  I get it that basically they are entrapping a person so the DA would have to argue that was necessary ....Overall PA sure could use some compliance officers, seen way too many folks pull fast ones from behind the counter.

~~Is it true, Is it kind,Is it necessary. ~~~

christmas holly jolly numbers: 255,303,6911, 474,477 silver:47,gold:79.


    United States
    Member #88611
    March 19, 2010
    14 Posts
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    Posted: April 21, 2010, 7:47 pm - IP Logged

    In PA with the introduction of the scanners, it can only read one type of bar code scans. The instant tickets carry a Box with a different set of scans to be read. Consider it an entirely different type of bar code language. Sorta like it can read english but not gaelic.

    I seriously would love to be one of the compliance ticket folks, here is what I would do extra...after they read the ticket and proclaimed the amount I would get the meager cash they claimed it was ...then  ****** Ask them for the ticket so it can be signed on the back ! Boy would that get their goats :) You would only be complying with the" sign the back of the ticket" rule. Naturally It would take some finesse to pull that off as their faces would turn a shade of white :)  I get it that basically they are entrapping a person so the DA would have to argue that was necessary ....Overall PA sure could use some compliance officers, seen way too many folks pull fast ones from behind the counter.

    Actually, there was no encouragement to defraud committed by the lottery rep, so there was no entrapment. If the rep had been told an amount and then the rep offered to accept a lower payment due to an "existing tax issue" or such, that would be entrapment. Merely supplying the opportunity to commit a crime is not considered entrapment. Suggesting or encouraging the committing of a crime would be entrapment. But a defense lawyer would indeed try to argue that anyway.


    But I do love your idea of a personal trap.That would be fun to videotape their reaction. YouTube for sure!

      savagegoose's avatar - ProfilePho
      adelaide sa
      Australia
      Member #37136
      April 11, 2006
      3300 Posts
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      Posted: April 21, 2010, 8:17 pm - IP Logged

      here in my town tyhey are soon installing player scanners so we can check our own tickets.

       

      I have heard about scannerrs making mistakes and people tossing tickets.so still will have to hold on till after.

      best to visually check your own numbers.

       

      we do have a display facing the player, that shows the value of thew scanned ticket,m but i always felt a crafty  crook could scan a known loser ,, behind their counter, showing a no win result. and pocket your ticket for later.

       

       

      always assk for tickets back.

       

      anyhow we have [player registrations here where the ticket is played and assigned to a pplayer card, not good for you identity freaks, but hell if it stops me being ripped off im going for the card. it also means they send out any lost or unclaimed prizes after a few weeks, ive had about 5 checks sent ion my time

      alll low prizes unfortunaltely

      2014 = -1016; 2015= -1409; 2016 JAN = -106; FEB= -81; MAR= -131; APR= - 87: MAY= -91; JUN= -39; JUL=-134; AUG= -124; SEP = -123; OCT= -84  NOV=- 73 TOT= -3498

      keno historic = -2291 ; 2015= -603; 2016= JAN=-32, FEB= +12 , MAR= -86, APR = -77. MAY= -48, JUN= -29, JUL=-71; AUG = -52; SEPT= -43; OCT = +56 NOV = -33 TOT= -3297

        Tenaj's avatar - michellea
        Charlotte NC
        United States
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        June 18, 2005
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        Posted: April 21, 2010, 8:34 pm - IP Logged

        What?I don't know.  You would think that with all the undercover busts going on clerks would be scared to continue to do that.

        takeemtothebank

          TheOtherOne's avatar - Lottery-027.jpg
          Nashville, TN
          United States
          Member #86739
          February 9, 2010
          483 Posts
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          Posted: April 21, 2010, 10:15 pm - IP Logged

          Neat trick. I hope all of the States employ this tactic, to bring some honesty back into the system.

          It's got to be hard to police the retailers and their practices.

          I am with you Litebets.

          In some ways I *almost* wish it were illegal for clerks to play the lottery, but I know that is unfair to them , especially since I worked at 2 different gas stations when I was younger (my first 2 jobs actually).

          But undercover tests like this need to happen to ensure they are kept in line.

            Avatar
            NY
            United States
            Member #23835
            October 16, 2005
            3474 Posts
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            Posted: April 22, 2010, 3:34 am - IP Logged

            In PA with the introduction of the scanners, it can only read one type of bar code scans. The instant tickets carry a Box with a different set of scans to be read. Consider it an entirely different type of bar code language. Sorta like it can read english but not gaelic.

            I seriously would love to be one of the compliance ticket folks, here is what I would do extra...after they read the ticket and proclaimed the amount I would get the meager cash they claimed it was ...then  ****** Ask them for the ticket so it can be signed on the back ! Boy would that get their goats :) You would only be complying with the" sign the back of the ticket" rule. Naturally It would take some finesse to pull that off as their faces would turn a shade of white :)  I get it that basically they are entrapping a person so the DA would have to argue that was necessary ....Overall PA sure could use some compliance officers, seen way too many folks pull fast ones from behind the counter.

            Signing the ticket would be a great idea if you thought the penalty for defrauding a player should only be a $50 fine. Simply making a mistake isn't a crime. If the clerk doesn't try to claim the prize how would you prove that they intended to defraud the player?

              TheGameGrl's avatar - character catafly.jpg
              A long and winding road
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              Posted: April 22, 2010, 7:54 am - IP Logged

              Signing the ticket would be a great idea if you thought the penalty for defrauding a player should only be a $50 fine. Simply making a mistake isn't a crime. If the clerk doesn't try to claim the prize how would you prove that they intended to defraud the player?

              Thanks KY! Fortunately I was making lite of the situation. Didnt mean to make it a serious discussion. Life does that enough.

              ~~Is it true, Is it kind,Is it necessary. ~~~

              christmas holly jolly numbers: 255,303,6911, 474,477 silver:47,gold:79.

                rdgrnr's avatar - walt
                Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
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                Posted: April 22, 2010, 12:32 pm - IP Logged

                I'd like to see states all put in scanners that tell you what you've won and possibly stamp it on the ticket. I know there are those who say if you can't check your own ticket you shouldn't be playing and all that but in reality there are a lot of lower IQ people playing and we all know it. Why not give them a little confidence in the system or at least a way to know what they've got coming and are not going to be ripped off by some scheming clerk.

                Tennessee is too backwards looking to have scanners and though Virginia has them they seldom work and when they do they only tell you that you've won but not how much. There are a lot of improvements that could be made in that area.


                                                             
                                     
                                                         

                 

                 

                 

                 

                                                                                                                   

                "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                            --Edmund Burke

                 

                 

                  Avatar
                  columbus, GA
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                  December 2, 2008
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                  Posted: April 23, 2010, 1:12 am - IP Logged

                  Investigator was paid $50 for ticket worth $20,000

                  An employee of the City Limits Deli Mart in Sumner and her companion got an unpleasant surprise Monday when they traveled to Washington's Lottery headquarters to claim what they thought was a $20,000 prize.

                  Olympia police arrested the two women for allegedly trying to claim the prize through fraud or deception, according to a Lottery spokeswoman.

                  The alleged fraud occurred Thursday, when an undercover Lottery employee posing as a customer at the store conducted a random consumer compliance check, said Lottery spokeswoman Jacque Coe.

                  Coe said the investigator had a specially designed winning lottery ticket, and he gave it to the employee to check whether it was a winner.

                  The ticket indicated it was a winner, and that the person who possessed it was due $20,000, Coe said. But an employee told the compliance officer the ticket was worth a $50 payout, Coe said.

                  The woman kept the ticket after giving the Lottery employee $50, she said. On Monday, the store employee and a companion tried to claim the $20,000 ticket at Washington's Lottery headquarters on Fourth Avenue in Olympia, according to Coe. Lottery officials called Olympia police, and officers arrested the two women.

                  The compliance checks by Washington's Lottery have been ongoing for about a year and are meant to test proper ticket-cashing procedures, Coe said. Monday's arrests were the first of their kind, she added.

                  "This is unusual," Coe said.

                  Customers at any of the Lottery's more than 4,000 retailers must be able to rely on store clerks to give them the accurate value of their tickets, Coe said.

                  "Consumer protection is paramount to the integrity of the Lottery," she said.

                  Coe reminded Lottery consumers that they can always check the value of a winning lottery ticket by calling the Lottery's winning-numbers line at 1-800-545-7510. Stores that sell lottery tickets also should have scanners that customers can use to get an accurate value if a ticket is a winner, she said.

                  Retailers can pay out winning lottery tickets on-site only when they are valued at $600 or less, Coe said. Winning tickets in amounts higher than that must be cashed out at one of the state's six regional lottery offices – in Vancouver, Olympia, Federal Way, Everett, Yakima or Spokane – she said.

                  Coe said anyone who buys a winning lottery ticket should sign it to make sure no one else can claim it.

                  Coe said the investigation into the two women arrested at Washington's Lottery headquarters Monday is ongoing.

                  The Olympian is not releasing the names of the two women because they have not been charged with a crime. Both had been released from the Thurston County Jail as of Tuesday afternoon.

                  It remains to be seen which county prosecutor's office will have jurisdiction over the case. Thurston County Chief Deputy Prosecuting Attorney Jon Tunheim said he was unfamiliar with the case, but that it could be filed in either Pierce or Thurston counties.

                  Sounds like entrapement, however it also goes  to show how dishonest people can be, wow ! alot of people trust the person behind the register to be honest, i never hand my tickets to anyone to check for me, i check them myself.

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                    Merrill
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                    April 23, 2010
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                    Posted: April 24, 2010, 10:50 am - IP Logged

                    I guess now I am wondering if the lottery office can print a winning ticket, then I can assume they know what the non-winning combinations are after 9:00 PM ( the cut off time for buying numbers) Are we really sure about which combination of numbers comes up? Ater all they can produce a winning ticket. So lets just bring up another non-winning combination tonight. we could'nt take a chance on multiple winners which, I never heard of. BUSTED ! I have been playing supercash since 1989. 15 bucks a night. yep thats almost 80 thousand dollars. I hit 500 bucks three times. something smells rotten. wecome to the NFL rookie

                      ca-dreamin*'s avatar - Lottery-065.jpg
                      Chicago
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                      Posted: April 25, 2010, 9:37 am - IP Logged

                      i agree with this also!!!! Or maybe lottery tickets should be sold by lottery officials only. I know that would be a pain but hey.

                        rdgrnr's avatar - walt
                        Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
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                        Posted: April 25, 2010, 12:43 pm - IP Logged

                        i agree with this also!!!! Or maybe lottery tickets should be sold by lottery officials only. I know that would be a pain but hey.

                        That's a slippery slope, ca-.

                        First it's lottery officials only.

                        Then it's government officials under a Lottery Czar.

                        Then it's government robots.

                        Then it's armed government robots.

                        Have you ever seen the movie Westworld with Yul Brynner?

                        Exactly.


                                                                     
                                             
                                                                 

                         

                         

                         

                         

                                                                                                                           

                        "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                                    --Edmund Burke

                         

                         

                          Avatar
                          NY
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                          October 16, 2005
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                          Posted: April 25, 2010, 1:58 pm - IP Logged

                          I guess now I am wondering if the lottery office can print a winning ticket, then I can assume they know what the non-winning combinations are after 9:00 PM ( the cut off time for buying numbers) Are we really sure about which combination of numbers comes up? Ater all they can produce a winning ticket. So lets just bring up another non-winning combination tonight. we could'nt take a chance on multiple winners which, I never heard of. BUSTED ! I have been playing supercash since 1989. 15 bucks a night. yep thats almost 80 thousand dollars. I hit 500 bucks three times. something smells rotten. wecome to the NFL rookie

                          This has nothing to do with non-winning combinations or the cut-off time for ticket sales. Every single lottery ticket is printed with a unique indentity, and that identity is one of the things  the lottery uses to validate a ticket as a winner. The lottery could print a "winning" ticket for a game that doesn't exist. Modern technology means that anybody can print a ticket that looks like  a real winner, as long as they know what a winning ticket looks like.  Once the winning numbers have been drawn, or the design of a winning scratch ticket is known, anybody can know what the ticket should look like, except for the things that indicate that ticket's unique identity. It's the identity of the ticket being registered as a winner that matters.

                          In this particular instance the lottery could have printed a ticket for an online game (just as you or I could) with winning numbers once those numbers are known. That means sometime after the drawing has taken place.  By entering the identity of that ticket into the lottery's database as a "valid" winner, it would be indicated as a winner by any online store terminal or a scanner available to the public. If it was a scratch ticket, it could have been printed as soon as the game and tickets were designed. Again, the identity of that particular ticket would have to be entered in the database.

                          At the store it will be reported as a real winner. Because the value is too high, the clerk can't pay the prize to the customer. If the clerk doesn't make a genuine mistake they  should tell the customer that the ticket is a winner, but the customer will need to claim the prize directly from the lottery. If that hapens, the ticket can be used at th enext store, and so on, until a clerk chooses option number 2 and tells the "customer" that it's a modest winner and gives them a few bucks in hopes of claiming the real prize for themselves. When that does happen the clerk will presumably go to a claim center to present the ticket.  On the lottery's end the ticket's identity will show that it's a special ticket for enforcement purposes, so that they can have the claimant arrested. That's exactly what happened here.

                            Avatar
                            NY
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                            October 16, 2005
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                            Posted: April 25, 2010, 2:01 pm - IP Logged

                            i agree with this also!!!! Or maybe lottery tickets should be sold by lottery officials only. I know that would be a pain but hey.

                            As a practical mater that's how it's already done.They retailers aren't employees or true legal agents of the lottery, but they are authorized by the lottery to sell the tickets.