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Atheist converts after mock prayer to win $1M lottery is answered

Topic closed. 1632 replies. Last post 5 years ago by Todd.

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Posted: June 9, 2011, 10:43 pm - IP Logged

Dear joker, you screamed there was "no proof" for several years, and now that I supplied you with some, you refuse to follow up on it and publically ask Todd if I never had that conversation with him back in July 09. 

This is your chance to prove to the board of claims you are making "contributions" for the right reasons.

When you create an atmosphere, live up to it.

Ask him.

You refusing TO ask him underlines your not here for the reason you say you are.

What are you afraid of, him answering "yes" ?

            "i am .........."meant to"       

P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

         until further notice,  it's  france everyday


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    Posted: June 9, 2011, 11:00 pm - IP Logged

    Dear joker, you screamed there was "no proof" for several years, and now that I supplied you with some, you refuse to follow up on it and publically ask Todd if I never had that conversation with him back in July 09. 

    This is your chance to prove to the board of claims you are making "contributions" for the right reasons.

    When you create an atmosphere, live up to it.

    Ask him.

    You refusing TO ask him underlines your not here for the reason you say you are.

    What are you afraid of, him answering "yes" ?

    With all due respect, could you please bring me up to date on this controversy over a communication with Todd?  It sounds like the truth or fiction of the proposition that God is of the Christian variety somehow hinges on his response.


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      Posted: June 9, 2011, 11:09 pm - IP Logged

      Dear joker, you screamed there was "no proof" for several years, and now that I supplied you with some, you refuse to follow up on it and publically ask Todd if I never had that conversation with him back in July 09. 

      This is your chance to prove to the board of claims you are making "contributions" for the right reasons.

      When you create an atmosphere, live up to it.

      Ask him.

      You refusing TO ask him underlines your not here for the reason you say you are.

      What are you afraid of, him answering "yes" ?

      Have you been hanging around with Pumpi?

      So If Todd agrees that you indeed had that conversation with him about your Paris visions, God must exist? Wow, Is that all it took to prove his existence? I wish you would've told me that earlier, like many moons ago. I would've converted back then.

      Thanx Vision, alas !...someone has finally come up with tangible proof after eons and eons of doubt.

      Crazy


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        Posted: June 9, 2011, 11:15 pm - IP Logged

        With all due respect, could you please bring me up to date on this controversy over a communication with Todd?  It sounds like the truth or fiction of the proposition that God is of the Christian variety somehow hinges on his response.

        Supposedly, Vision had visions about Paris or France for the past 3 years from God, and he told Todd of this in PMs. And If Todd agrees that he indeed had a coversation with Vision about his word of knowledge, it proves that the Christion God is the right one. The rest of the Gods out there are just made up phoney baloney Gods.

        Meanwhile, someone in Paris who's Muslim had visions of Denmark for the past 8 years, and PMed it to the president of Egypt. Therefore, If you write to the president and ask him If he had a converstaion with Abdul in Paris, that must surely prove that Mohamad is the true prophet....

        Oh boy, I got to go to bed. Too much excitement for one night...

          visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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          Posted: June 10, 2011, 2:13 am - IP Logged

          Supposedly, Vision had visions about Paris or France for the past 3 years from God, and he told Todd of this in PMs. And If Todd agrees that he indeed had a coversation with Vision about his word of knowledge, it proves that the Christion God is the right one. The rest of the Gods out there are just made up phoney baloney Gods.

          Meanwhile, someone in Paris who's Muslim had visions of Denmark for the past 8 years, and PMed it to the president of Egypt. Therefore, If you write to the president and ask him If he had a converstaion with Abdul in Paris, that must surely prove that Mohamad is the true prophet....

          Oh boy, I got to go to bed. Too much excitement for one night...

          i never had "visions or dreams".

          while God can still use that as a methodology in a followers life,  i have never once had that happen to me.

          you immediately attempted to avoid my challenge to your intellectual impairment that God "isn't real",  or "can't be known", and He can't "prove Himself" above others pretenders,  and that "no one knows".

          i just gave you hard everyday experience observable facts for you to weigh,  and what you do is call them something 180 degree's opposite of what has happened to me because you cannot address those occurances head on.

          observable ongoing never interrupting daily occurances beyond my control,  not "visions or dreams".

          visions or dreams are totally subjective. 

           you cannot debate against daily occurances beyond the manipulation of the one that it has happened to,  unless there is no documentation,  and it has not been 'observed' by any outside party.

          and unfortunately for your wishful thinking that 'god cannot be known",   those 2 undebatable facts occured to me.

          something you will run as fast as you can in the other direction from,  instead of addressing it's "factual nature"

          like i said,  create the little science experiment for yourself,  but your not man enough to even do that.

          why?   because you could care less what IS the truth about this arena of life

          i have a journal i have kept of these events with dates and times,  so people like you can't twist it into something it isn't.

           a man of wisdom filters their believability factor thru the presented facts,  then rejects (or accepts them) based on the proveability.

          unfortunately for you,  i have it journaled, and have corroberating eyewitnesses to its occurance over time.

          with it happening everyday,  for that length of time,  you can twiddle it away all you want, but the facts are there,  that it is impossible for any human being to orchaestrate that same occurance of phenomenom.

          impossible.   if you think that's some flippant grandiose claim,  do it yourself,  see how many days you go

          joker,  i never once thought in the midst of being transparent about my life that you would glam on to factual proof,  but because alot of times i can tell the true motivations of men over time,  i could have bet the farm that you would have wussed out on just asking todd alone.

          just asking todd would have validated your claim of altuism in here,  but you ran in the other direction.

          i needed to accomplish 3 things within the framework of flittering my personal life / experience out there publically on LP,

          (1) to demonstrate your not the man you claim to be,  and that your not in here to "educate".  that's a lie.

          your only in here to play your little hit and run fly swat game period.     real men finish what they start,  and handle both sides of the coin no matter what,  when it comes to an intellectual OK corral moment,  especially one you start.

          you were the one that kept screaming about the 20,000 children a day.

          you just a firestarter,  a hit and run artist,  and nothing more. 

          that's why you say the things you say

          (2) it was necessary (given the current atmosphere in here)  for me to step up to the plate to validate what i say in here about God,  by connecting the dots of history,  and to show thru an experience that only God CAN orchaestrate such an event, to demonstrate in a tangible / relateable way that He is real,   so that it ends up validating future events in my life,   so guys like you can't cry it's nothing more than a "coincidence". 

          (3) to embolden other believers 'faith' when guys like you attempt to steal it. 

          challenging it is one thing,  but i won't stand there and watch someone attempt to "steal it".   

          my defense isn't so much to benefit me,  it's to benefit "them".     it's what i do

          once again,  i gave you the juiciest stage for you to stand upon in your wishful thinking that you are going to steal peoples faith,  and instead of getting up on that stage,  you exit curtain left.

          it's what you do

                      "i am .........."meant to"       

          P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                   until further notice,  it's  france everyday

            visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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            Posted: June 10, 2011, 2:29 am - IP Logged

            Why is it when I write what I feel it's an argument? When you write your beliefs, it's just a statement.

            If you go back and read that thread, I never told her anything except congrats on your win. Like I said before, I replied to another poster in that thread with a question, and then you and Vision come out of the woodwork and accuse me of attcking Christianity. Let me tell you buddy, I have the right to say anything I want to, and If you or anyone else feels bad, too bad because I have that right. Like I said before, either side can be offended.

            And yes, it makes no sense to me that a Saint is going to help someone in need, when Saints don't give 2 hoots about 20,000 starving, hurting kids that croak every single DAY !

            Don't get me wrong, I'm totally happy that she won that money because she obviously sounded like she needed it. You make me sound like some heartless <snip>. I'm only saying that because to me, it makes no sense considering the priorities of the Saints, God, angels, or whatever entity is out there choosing one or two people to win money, or a football team to win over 20,000 kids.

            This post has been automatically changed by the Lottery Post computer system to remove inappropriate content and/or spam.

            "I replied to another poster in that thread with a question, and then you and Vision come out of the woodwork and accuse me of attcking Christianity".

             it wasn't anywhere near the ballpark of respectful,  it was straight out of the gate classic joker jerk just to be a jerk.

            if you had just "replied" with respect,  you would have asked to be defended against.

            ask all you want,  ask the hardest questions your inducement can envision,  but if you are a jerk when you do it, you are going to get fly swatted around the room for doing it.

            i have no problem of you having issues with Christianity,  but i do not ascribe to door mat Christianity,  and when someone thinks they can take pot shots at it for sport,  that's where my skills come out to play.

            discuss,  disagree, debate,  don't even come close to agreeing ----->  i don't care.

            be a purposeful jerk,  and think you are going to make the board pay with your angst about it,  that is NOT going to happen.

            you know me,  i "wrestle" for equal ground.   that's ALL i wrestle for. 

            but when i obeserve bullies that think they can steamroll others,  knowing full well no one is really going to step up to the likes of you,  then i have to

            all i am concerned with in here is equal footing to discuss beliefs.

            WITH RESPECT

            of course,  if someone starts to challenge that footing by getting "narrrow" about what i believe,  THEN i will get narrow as the flow takes me.

            it's not my desire to shove Christ down peoples throats.  that NEVER works.  if it was my desire,  i would invite myself into every nook and cranny here at LP ....

            ....i don't

            but you can bet i will defend it,  when someone asks me too

                        "i am .........."meant to"       

            P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                     until further notice,  it's  france everyday

              visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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              Posted: June 10, 2011, 2:45 am - IP Logged

              Have you been hanging around with Pumpi?

              So If Todd agrees that you indeed had that conversation with him about your Paris visions, God must exist? Wow, Is that all it took to prove his existence? I wish you would've told me that earlier, like many moons ago. I would've converted back then.

              Thanx Vision, alas !...someone has finally come up with tangible proof after eons and eons of doubt.

              Crazy

              it validates my claim,  like you keep whining that it is "impossible to do",  by creating a timeline based in unbiasness.

              todd and i have mutual respect,  but we have also experienced enough differences for it TO validate my claim in an unbiased fashion.

              that's why i referred you to a source outside of myself so that you can't claim it was a coincenciDUNCE.

              you asked for proof God exists,  and i gave you proof to observe,  so that you can defend against it's validity.

              backed it up with actual certifiable / observable data

              at least challenge it's validity for crying out loud,  instead more babbling / whining.

              the occurances give you data for which to filter thru the probability microscope,  so that you are able to come to a conclusion of it just being a "coincidence" that it has occured everyday for nearly 3 years,  or only God could orchaestrate something on that observable scale......for that length of time unbroken.

              i can't make anyone believe,  that's WAY above my pay scale,  nor do i wish to. 

              i just live my life wide open,  and take whatever shots come my way

              but when someone asks,  i can give them evidence FOR belief,  rather than just reading about it in some book.

              i gave you that,  and you don't even have the ability to tear it apart,  or deal with it head on

                          "i am .........."meant to"       

              P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                       until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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                Posted: June 10, 2011, 3:00 am - IP Logged

                With all due respect, could you please bring me up to date on this controversy over a communication with Todd?  It sounds like the truth or fiction of the proposition that God is of the Christian variety somehow hinges on his response.

                it does.

                it provides an observable event in order to provide an opportunity for observable validation, yes.

                  but i really wish you would have held your peace just a tad longer,  jimmy.

                now,  because it was you that asked,  joker will now skate out of the side door to escape his responsibility,  and completly hide behind your skirt praying (pun intended) that you will pick up his mantle and finish for him what he started,   so he doesn't HAVE TO.

                he's totally schiken like that...

                he is jumping up and down thinking now he doesn't have to with that post you just made.

                bare in mind,  i need to keep joker on the hook about this,  in order to demonstrate he is full of it when it comes to him claiming he is in these threads with good intentions.

                once i take him all the way to the finish line,  and show that he is afraid of it, and he never will,  i have zero problem backing up anything i say to any degree where someone else sets the stage for me to do it.

                i can "observe" you have views looking 180 degree's in the opposite direction.  that is cool,  but make sure if you want to discuss those concerns,  i implore you to be respectful.

                people go sideways when someone like gets "narrow" after they have asked me to.

                if it's supposedly "untrue",  why such a swift unraveling?

                give me time to show joker isn't what he says he is,  then when he doesnt,  you can bet i will

                vision

                            "i am .........."meant to"       

                P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                         until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                  Perfecttiming2's avatar - redcross

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                  Posted: June 10, 2011, 3:47 am - IP Logged

                  I'm not an Atheist, I'm an Agnostic.

                  I've got a ton of debate points that eclipse this issue about the kids. I'm only responding to what others are pointing out about this issue. You still didn't answer the dilemma about letting kids be born by God, knowing they're doomed. Talk about craziness.

                  You want a good one, I'll give it. The majority of Christians believe the Universe is only about 6 to 10 thousand years old. How can that be If there are galaxies billions of light years away. it took light that long to get here.

                  There's a lot more, but I feel it's futile because you and others will always provide some obscure answer that you're comfortable with. No one likes to deal with the tough questions, but wants to live in la la land believing everything they read in some book.

                  Why don't you respond to the list of the hundreds of religions I posted in the topic that is closed now.

                  Please respond to the post I made about plagiarism pertaining to the Bible. The videos I posted do a better job of explaining it. Did you even bother to watch them?

                  You say God does not let things happen, well there's a ton of problems with that statement. if he does exist, he's the one that set up that scenario in the first place. If he's all knowing and ominpotent, Alpha and Omega he would've known that there was a good chance that Eve would eat the apple, thus ruining everything for mankind, which in itself is a rediculous story to begin with, but for arguments sake, he allowed this to happen which started a chain reaction.

                  I'm sorry, there are way too many paradoxes in religions that make no sense whatsoever. You can try to make sense of those paradoxes all you want but I've already spent years trying to find a way around them and it's futile.

                  If you want, I can spend hours writing ALL of the things that make no sense, but It's no use. People will do what they want despite mu efforts, so it's a waste of time for me.

                  Hi Joker!

                  So, what kind of an agnostic are you?

                  (Your answer will reveal alot....not that your post have not already....)

                    DEE88's avatar - animal doggy2.jpg
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                    Posted: June 10, 2011, 9:51 am - IP Logged

                    Like Jimmy said earlier, wich God are you talking about?

                    There are thousands to choose from.

                    Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner joker.....  Well I don't know what God or God's jimmy is referring to...cause I only have one true God that is talked about in the Bible...(and I love to read Revelations)...unless he is referring to different God's from different cults or something like that...but I don't beleive in any of those cults...just like the case down in Texas that was called "WACO"..and do you know what WACO stood for....here it is "We Ain't Coming Out"....and that's just what happened...alot didn't come out...

                    joker......everyone is entitled to say how and what they feel about their beliefs and that is what is happening here...everyone is saying what they think is right and so on and so on....but what it comes down to is...I don't feel I have to prove ANYTHING to ANYONE about my God....my God knows me and I know him and we have our own personal relationship...cause when I leave this world I know I will be in a better place....and until you can feel that feeling between you and your God and have a strong faith in your religion...nothing or anything that anyone tells you will make a difference...bottom line....I was taught at a early age to not argue with people about religion and politics and beleive me I have learned the hard way....cause everyone has their opinion of the topic and of course everyone whats to be right...and I am seeing so much in this forum how people don't agree on this subject...but than again...they are entitled to their opinon just like me....just like this thread...it will keep going on and on and on till someone  gives up....cause you are always going to have someone that thinks they are right and they are GOD...and can't be defeated...

                    I do not hate or dislike anyone on this thread even if I don't agree with their comments..it is a free world and everyone is entitled to do that...I just know where to draw the line with people...I guess you could say I am a peace maker....I do hope that at some point in time you do find the God that will help you to see things better and to understand and to find a faith that you can feel good about...cause I am sure you mean well in what you say and do and don't want to hurt people....I will keep you and everyone else on this thread and in this world in my prayers and pray that you all find peace and happiness in this world...Blue Angel

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                      Posted: June 10, 2011, 4:59 pm - IP Logged

                      I concur that you have the right to disagree.

                      I just think it's incredibly poor form to attack someone for saying "I prayed for a win" or "thank God I won". Those people aren't trying to proselytise or convert you or anyone else to their beliefs. They're just expressing their beliefs in conversation.

                       

                      "I'm not trying to convert anyone here. I'm simply showing alternative thought processes...  ...I call it education."

                       

                      Do you hear yourself?  Somebody says "Thank God" and you feel the need to show them "alternative thought processes"? To "educate" them? How does somebody saying "Thank God" become "interjecting their religious beliefs in a thread as truth"?  Who's exhibiting signs of being delusional here? 

                      Is this the Lottery Post or a re-education camp?

                       

                      P.S. Check out your buddy Nancy's new avatar.  I told him to run along and he took a walk on the wild side!  I knew it!  LOL

                      Has there been any follow-up stories?

                      Because I was wondering from the beginning if it wasn't an attempt for "5 minutes of fame".


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                        Posted: June 10, 2011, 5:36 pm - IP Logged

                        Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner joker.....  Well I don't know what God or God's jimmy is referring to...cause I only have one true God that is talked about in the Bible...(and I love to read Revelations)...unless he is referring to different God's from different cults or something like that...but I don't beleive in any of those cults...just like the case down in Texas that was called "WACO"..and do you know what WACO stood for....here it is "We Ain't Coming Out"....and that's just what happened...alot didn't come out...

                        joker......everyone is entitled to say how and what they feel about their beliefs and that is what is happening here...everyone is saying what they think is right and so on and so on....but what it comes down to is...I don't feel I have to prove ANYTHING to ANYONE about my God....my God knows me and I know him and we have our own personal relationship...cause when I leave this world I know I will be in a better place....and until you can feel that feeling between you and your God and have a strong faith in your religion...nothing or anything that anyone tells you will make a difference...bottom line....I was taught at a early age to not argue with people about religion and politics and beleive me I have learned the hard way....cause everyone has their opinion of the topic and of course everyone whats to be right...and I am seeing so much in this forum how people don't agree on this subject...but than again...they are entitled to their opinon just like me....just like this thread...it will keep going on and on and on till someone  gives up....cause you are always going to have someone that thinks they are right and they are GOD...and can't be defeated...

                        I do not hate or dislike anyone on this thread even if I don't agree with their comments..it is a free world and everyone is entitled to do that...I just know where to draw the line with people...I guess you could say I am a peace maker....I do hope that at some point in time you do find the God that will help you to see things better and to understand and to find a faith that you can feel good about...cause I am sure you mean well in what you say and do and don't want to hurt people....I will keep you and everyone else on this thread and in this world in my prayers and pray that you all find peace and happiness in this world...Blue Angel

                        "Well I don't know what God or God's jimmy is referring to...cause I only have one true God that is talked about in the Bible..."

                        I think all Joker17 is trying to say is that the multiplicity of human perceptions of what and/or who God is supports the position of the deist.  I am unable to defend atheism because, logically, it seems to me that our self-awareness requires that something beyond human-ness must exist.  But neither can I defend any of the anthropomorphic perceptions of God, such as the one espoused by Christians.  The Zen Buddhists have an interesting way of looking at things.

                        By the way, proponents of the Bible should be aware of their competition, with whom they share many beliefs...

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN-EJBCPonw&NR=1


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                          Posted: June 10, 2011, 11:00 pm - IP Logged

                          Vision, I don't believe that for 3 years, every single day you had a whatever you call it about France. It's simply hearsay and there's no way you can prove it. Even If you wanted to attempt to prove it, you couldn't. I'd have to live with you 24 hours aday, and follow you around for a week to see you come across French words of knowledge, and that isn't gonna happen...

                          Hearsay is not proof.


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                            Posted: June 10, 2011, 11:09 pm - IP Logged

                            Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner joker.....  Well I don't know what God or God's jimmy is referring to...cause I only have one true God that is talked about in the Bible...(and I love to read Revelations)...unless he is referring to different God's from different cults or something like that...but I don't beleive in any of those cults...just like the case down in Texas that was called "WACO"..and do you know what WACO stood for....here it is "We Ain't Coming Out"....and that's just what happened...alot didn't come out...

                            joker......everyone is entitled to say how and what they feel about their beliefs and that is what is happening here...everyone is saying what they think is right and so on and so on....but what it comes down to is...I don't feel I have to prove ANYTHING to ANYONE about my God....my God knows me and I know him and we have our own personal relationship...cause when I leave this world I know I will be in a better place....and until you can feel that feeling between you and your God and have a strong faith in your religion...nothing or anything that anyone tells you will make a difference...bottom line....I was taught at a early age to not argue with people about religion and politics and beleive me I have learned the hard way....cause everyone has their opinion of the topic and of course everyone whats to be right...and I am seeing so much in this forum how people don't agree on this subject...but than again...they are entitled to their opinon just like me....just like this thread...it will keep going on and on and on till someone  gives up....cause you are always going to have someone that thinks they are right and they are GOD...and can't be defeated...

                            I do not hate or dislike anyone on this thread even if I don't agree with their comments..it is a free world and everyone is entitled to do that...I just know where to draw the line with people...I guess you could say I am a peace maker....I do hope that at some point in time you do find the God that will help you to see things better and to understand and to find a faith that you can feel good about...cause I am sure you mean well in what you say and do and don't want to hurt people....I will keep you and everyone else on this thread and in this world in my prayers and pray that you all find peace and happiness in this world...Blue Angel

                            Thanx for wishing me well, and right back at you.

                            I don't hate believers, I really don't, despite the picture some people paint of me here. I hope the best for all kinds. But some here feel the need to contradict themselves by telling me not voice my opinion, yet they voice theirs in opposition to my voice....WHAT?....lol

                            Vision keeps telling me I'm disrespectful, but I'm only human, and can only repeat something so many times before I either just quit writing it over and over, or get angry in my writings. If I quit, then he calls me a chicken for running away. I'm not running away, I'm simply trying to avoid the whole thing because it's futile.

                            Then he wants me to believe his God is real because he's had words of knowledge from God about France for 3 years. I have no freaking idea what France has anything to do with this.

                              visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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                              Posted: June 10, 2011, 11:34 pm - IP Logged

                              Vision, I don't believe that for 3 years, every single day you had a whatever you call it about France. It's simply hearsay and there's no way you can prove it. Even If you wanted to attempt to prove it, you couldn't. I'd have to live with you 24 hours aday, and follow you around for a week to see you come across French words of knowledge, and that isn't gonna happen...

                              Hearsay is not proof.

                              there is a difference in a man like me,  and a man like you,  i can prove it ,  without it being "subjective"

                              i have an ongoing journal that i started back in aug of 08,  and while i have not tediously written in it everyday,  cataloging every minutia of "times" it happened,  whenever i entered a day i always wrote the words...

                              "still france everyday"

                              which means until that streak HAD been broken,  it was still congruent and unbroken.

                              what?   i suppose in your wishful thinking world that it wasn't true,  now you are going to rush to accuse me of manufacturing a journal with falsified entries.   that's about par for your desperation course.

                              takes me a L O N G time just to type.   i don't oppose you with enough veracity to sit down and write three years of "history" just to kick dust over you.

                              i have it.  3 years worth,  all archived pre conversation,  and something you will never be able to debate against it.

                              trouble is for you #2,  i have plenty of eyewitnesses to it's occurance as well,  and they can corroberate my story of it's duration of nearly 3 years.

                              see,  it's the usual,  you don't "believe",  not because their is "insufficient effidence" for belief,  you never wanted to believe,  so you make up lame excuse to sell it in here that you don't HAVE to believe.

                              if there is a God,  what kind of definition applies to a man when that happens?       a seeker?

                               

                              it was established you couldn't back up your "undeniable proof" with a pic of a $1000 check, and that was after you told the board you sent the dude an email to challenge him.       you never did

                              i don't suffer from the same malady of "slitheroutthebackdooritis" when i make a claim.

                              i stand by them,  i stand up to them, and i make sure mine crosses the finish line sans steroids.   

                              just the facts.   facts that stand alone,  and are not afraid of the spotlight.

                              now you can watch and observe how a real man of positional strength acts,  when they make a claim.

                              it will be in my next post.   please excuse me for a moment will i jog over to my PM box.  back uno moMENTUS.

                                          "i am .........."meant to"       

                              P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                                       until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                                 
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