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Atheist converts after mock prayer to win $1M lottery is answered

Topic closed. 1632 replies. Last post 5 years ago by Todd.

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four4me's avatar - gate1
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Posted: June 24, 2011, 10:29 pm - IP Logged

ok four,  here i am,  i gave you my word i would come back tonight and discuss it

i read it,  so in your mind what does it mean,  what impresses you,  or generally,  what motivation did you have in particular by referencing that "study"?

you start,  and i will give you my opinion of it

You take from it whatever you want.
 
Dr Wells traveled to every part of the world and took blood samples from people from all walks of life and every nationality he could find even those from the amazon an inaccessible areas. Through DNA sequencing he discovered we all come from one tribe somewhere in Africa. The cradle of civilization as we all now know.
 
Oddly enough he visited that tribe or what may be remnants of it and the peoples faces and body structures all looked like the nationalizes we are all familiar with, some had Negro jaw structures some had Japanese slant eyes etc, it was amazing to see all those different facial structures in one general population of people.
 
His story and plight for this DNA was broadcast on the discovery and science channel. Our DNA has markers and can be traced.
 
I have a different theory as to where life on the planet possible came from..... how about this might have been penile colony just as America was in the beginning when outcasts, criminals and undesirables were sent here to pave the way for us.
 
The mere fact that god made this universe and put trillions and trillions of planets in it and we are the only intelligent life forms on it is ridiculous.

Big John says. You don't hit the number. The number hits you!!!!

               I'm not Big John, I'm Four4me, Big John's a friend.
    truecritic's avatar - PirateTreasure
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    Posted: June 24, 2011, 11:01 pm - IP Logged

    the "proof" is not mine to make,  that's above my pay grade.

    all my job decription only goes to defending the facts,  whatever that may be.

     that has nothing to do with intellect,  but a change of heart

     

    i don't call everyone a liar,  and you know that,  so don't exaggerate the facts of what goes on in here.

    but,  when someone does lie,  i will give them a free pass the first time,  and chalk it up to anger.

    doing it over and over without a conscience,  and the definition fits.

    so,  now that all this came up on your radar,  are you going to deny or confirm that stack purposefully lied in that post where i called him a "liar"?

    since when is calling someone out for willful lying a "sin"?

    remember,  Jesus wasn't too worried about his rep when He dealt with the 'stacks' of life.

    called some of them liars in the gospels.

     

    i don't mind you calling me out, i need to be "checked" just like everyone else.

    just make sure it's the truth,  and not some side door agaenda job :)

     

    so,  what say you about stack?

    "i don't call everyone a liar"

    It wasn't meant to be literal.

    "so,  what say you about stack?"

    I'd have to bring up some undesireable comments about you in order to answer any questions about another member.  If we didn't already cover that ground, I would do it - but no sense starting another war of words here.

      visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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      Posted: June 24, 2011, 11:09 pm - IP Logged
      You take from it whatever you want.
       
      Dr Wells traveled to every part of the world and took blood samples from people from all walks of life and every nationality he could find even those from the amazon an inaccessible areas. Through DNA sequencing he discovered we all come from one tribe somewhere in Africa. The cradle of civilization as we all now know.
       
      Oddly enough he visited that tribe or what may be remnants of it and the peoples faces and body structures all looked like the nationalizes we are all familiar with, some had Negro jaw structures some had Japanese slant eyes etc, it was amazing to see all those different facial structures in one general population of people.
       
      His story and plight for this DNA was broadcast on the discovery and science channel. Our DNA has markers and can be traced.
       
      I have a different theory as to where life on the planet possible came from..... how about this might have been penile colony just as America was in the beginning when outcasts, criminals and undesirables were sent here to pave the way for us.
       
      The mere fact that god made this universe and put trillions and trillions of planets in it and we are the only intelligent life forms on it is ridiculous.

      my take from it goes like this....

      it's true that ALL human beings would have a DNA marker pointing to an original origin. 

      that would favor the biblical account of creation.

      however,  wells steals the biblical account,  and attempts to make it his own,  by naming his last traceable human "adam".

      now,  his reference is highjacking in nature,  in order to discredit the biblical account,  but also because 'adam' is a purposeful reference to a beginning.

      if one reads between the lines on wells accounting,  it goes back approx 60,000 years (by HIS estimate),  but instead of stopping there,  wells alludes to people who lived prior to his "adam".

      so if i read it right,  wells has no idea WHERE the origin is,  but says he does, and is still in hypothesizing mode

      none of that gels with his alleged "discovery"

      didn't the same dr wellls state there were evolutionary forms of humans some 5 million years ago too?

      even on that scale of addition,  dr wells has a HUGE  gap to fill of 60,000 years to 5 million years

      even within an evolutionary explanation, there wasn't just one magical day in history where an ape finally became a man,  and dr wells would have to go back in history far enough to find "that man",  plus he would have to make the same DNA "link" on apes that currently connected apes and humans

      i wonder why the dr well's of science don't do DNA linking experimentation on apes? 

      scientists won't go anywhere near that

                  "i am .........."meant to"       

      P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

               until further notice,  it's  france everyday

        visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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        Posted: June 24, 2011, 11:20 pm - IP Logged
        You take from it whatever you want.
         
        Dr Wells traveled to every part of the world and took blood samples from people from all walks of life and every nationality he could find even those from the amazon an inaccessible areas. Through DNA sequencing he discovered we all come from one tribe somewhere in Africa. The cradle of civilization as we all now know.
         
        Oddly enough he visited that tribe or what may be remnants of it and the peoples faces and body structures all looked like the nationalizes we are all familiar with, some had Negro jaw structures some had Japanese slant eyes etc, it was amazing to see all those different facial structures in one general population of people.
         
        His story and plight for this DNA was broadcast on the discovery and science channel. Our DNA has markers and can be traced.
         
        I have a different theory as to where life on the planet possible came from..... how about this might have been penile colony just as America was in the beginning when outcasts, criminals and undesirables were sent here to pave the way for us.
         
        The mere fact that god made this universe and put trillions and trillions of planets in it and we are the only intelligent life forms on it is ridiculous.

        "The mere fact that god made this universe and put trillions and trillions of planets in it and we are the only intelligent life forms on it is ridiculous".

         why? 

        it would be congruent with God surpassing our ability to understand the why's of everything He does,   but i don't have a problem with a vast universe that is uninhabited by man or another "creation".

        seems pretty logical to me that He would.

        who knows,  maybe He did it for self entertainment purposes,  or He didn't it to demonstrate in an observable / measureable way that He can create something as grandiose as fits His whim

        in not much into the astronomy thing,  but it astounds my wife to look at a star filled sky,  it's vastness and majesty,  and it trips Her out that she has a relationship with the one who created it.

        we get caught up in measuring God thru our capacitative thinking.

        if we can wrap our head around it,  then yeah,  it "makes sense" and now i accept it.

        people miss out on so much of who God is,  and what He is capable of relationally to us via that limited mindset.

        for me,  i never fail to measure possibilities by anything other than what God has said in His word about it,  if He said anything at all.

        so for me in this case,  the go-to is collective biblical reasoning,  and like i said,  there is zero mention of another inhabited planet,  or civilization besides us.

        no other mention of anyone while you and i are on this earth,  or once we leave it

        do i care if i have "distant cousins"?     

         no.   i just don't even see a hint of it in scripture

                    "i am .........."meant to"       

        P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                 until further notice,  it's  france everyday

          RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

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          Posted: June 24, 2011, 11:21 pm - IP Logged

          my take from it goes like this....

          it's true that ALL human beings would have a DNA marker pointing to an original origin. 

          that would favor the biblical account of creation.

          however,  wells steals the biblical account,  and attempts to make it his own,  by naming his last traceable human "adam".

          now,  his reference is highjacking in nature,  in order to discredit the biblical account,  but also because 'adam' is a purposeful reference to a beginning.

          if one reads between the lines on wells accounting,  it goes back approx 60,000 years (by HIS estimate),  but instead of stopping there,  wells alludes to people who lived prior to his "adam".

          so if i read it right,  wells has no idea WHERE the origin is,  but says he does, and is still in hypothesizing mode

          none of that gels with his alleged "discovery"

          didn't the same dr wellls state there were evolutionary forms of humans some 5 million years ago too?

          even on that scale of addition,  dr wells has a HUGE  gap to fill of 60,000 years to 5 million years

          even within an evolutionary explanation, there wasn't just one magical day in history where an ape finally became a man,  and dr wells would have to go back in history far enough to find "that man",  plus he would have to make the same DNA "link" on apes that currently connected apes and humans

          i wonder why the dr well's of science don't do DNA linking experimentation on apes? 

          scientists won't go anywhere near that

          The bible says that God formed Adam from the dust of the earth.  Maybe evolution is just one of

          his methods.  Adam was the start of modern man.  The world was already populated when Adam

          was made according to the bible.  Even the Church has undergon many changes in it's very short life.

          Who were all the men that Cain was afraid would kill him once he was outcast.

           

          14: Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid;

          and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth

          me shall slay me.


          15: And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. 

          And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

            visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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            Posted: June 24, 2011, 11:54 pm - IP Logged

            "i don't call everyone a liar"

            It wasn't meant to be literal.

            "so,  what say you about stack?"

            I'd have to bring up some undesireable comments about you in order to answer any questions about another member.  If we didn't already cover that ground, I would do it - but no sense starting another war of words here.

            this is what i mean.

            you guys just play underhanded games for the sole purpose of discrediting someone,  and serve it up with kum by ya flavoring

            stack straight up lied about me,  and has lied about me numerous times,  and yet you said nothing  to him about it.

            why,  because you favor stack's position over mine,  and your one of those people that pick "people" over the truth.

            i see,  observing someone lying IS ok,  so long as it's in line with your beliefs.

            but saying something,  when someone called someone else a "liar" is acceptable.

            your fading in and out of good cop, bad cop .....and you need to make up your mind

             

            "I'd have to bring up some undesireable comments about you in order to answer any questions about another member".

             that's a garbage cop out,  and you know it.

             

            you chose to skip right past doing the right thing

             

            you don't have the guts to address the fact that stack purposefully lied about me.

            not only lied about me,  but my family.

            how do you people live with yourselves anyway ?

            make up your mind about who you are for once

                        "i am .........."meant to"       

            P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                     until further notice,  it's  france everyday

              visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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              Posted: June 25, 2011, 12:12 am - IP Logged

              The bible says that God formed Adam from the dust of the earth.  Maybe evolution is just one of

              his methods.  Adam was the start of modern man.  The world was already populated when Adam

              was made according to the bible.  Even the Church has undergon many changes in it's very short life.

              Who were all the men that Cain was afraid would kill him once he was outcast.

               

              14: Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid;

              and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth

              me shall slay me.


              15: And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. 

              And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

              (1) it would greatly depend on what YOUR version of "evolution" means

              (2) the world wasn't populated by any form of "man" prior to adam,  because if you factor in the evolution of man before adam,  there would still be that "half human / half monkey" thing going,  and Jesus Christ would have had to include a reference to "those people",  when speaking of the atonment of mankind.

              what,  they  (the ones you insinuate lived prior to adam)  didn't quite qualify?

               

              whenever Christ spoke of the beginning of creation of mankind,  He only mentions adam.

              Jesus Christ never mentions anything  pre adam,  and if there were,  He wouldn't refer to adam as His "first creation",  humanly speaking.

              there were no "almosts",  or hybrids that didn't quite make it in the baking process.

              so nope,  and Jesus Christ stated before adam it was only the Triune God and the angels

                          "i am .........."meant to"       

              P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                       until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                rdgrnr's avatar - walt
                Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
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                Posted: June 25, 2011, 12:14 am - IP Logged

                this is what i mean.

                you guys just play underhanded games for the sole purpose of discrediting someone,  and serve it up with kum by ya flavoring

                stack straight up lied about me,  and has lied about me numerous times,  and yet you said nothing  to him about it.

                why,  because you favor stack's position over mine,  and your one of those people that pick "people" over the truth.

                i see,  observing someone lying IS ok,  so long as it's in line with your beliefs.

                but saying something,  when someone called someone else a "liar" is acceptable.

                your fading in and out of good cop, bad cop .....and you need to make up your mind

                 

                "I'd have to bring up some undesireable comments about you in order to answer any questions about another member".

                 that's a garbage cop out,  and you know it.

                 

                you chose to skip right past doing the right thing

                 

                you don't have the guts to address the fact that stack purposefully lied about me.

                not only lied about me,  but my family.

                how do you people live with yourselves anyway ?

                make up your mind about who you are for once

                You cannot get the truth from a liberal.

                It's not in them.

                It's a defect in the brain.

                What they will give you everytime is what they want to be the truth.

                That's their nature.

                It took me a long time to accept that.

                I'm a slow learner.


                                                             
                                     
                                                         

                 

                 

                 

                 

                                                                                                                   

                "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                            --Edmund Burke

                 

                 

                  visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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                  Posted: June 25, 2011, 12:22 am - IP Logged

                  You cannot get the truth from a liberal.

                  It's not in them.

                  It's a defect in the brain.

                  What they will give you everytime is what they want to be the truth.

                  That's their nature.

                  It took me a long time to accept that.

                  I'm a slow learner.

                  what's sickening is the guy thinks he is good at selling it via the "innocent" angle.

                  like make up your mind,  are you going to play nice,  or are you going to think your going to play these little underhanded games and get away with it.

                  it must be some sort of defect,   because these guys know i will fly swat them when they attempt it everytime.

                  i could care less if they disagree or post opposing opinions,  just don't think you are going to mess with me that way,  and not pay your own personal price for attempting it.

                  if there is one talent i do have in life,  it's highlighting who people REALLY are.

                  or in these cases "aren't".

                              "i am .........."meant to"       

                  P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                           until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                    four4me's avatar - gate1
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                    Posted: June 25, 2011, 12:35 am - IP Logged

                    "The mere fact that god made this universe and put trillions and trillions of planets in it and we are the only intelligent life forms on it is ridiculous".

                     why? 

                    it would be congruent with God surpassing our ability to understand the why's of everything He does,   but i don't have a problem with a vast universe that is uninhabited by man or another "creation".

                    seems pretty logical to me that He would.

                    who knows,  maybe He did it for self entertainment purposes,  or He didn't it to demonstrate in an observable / measureable way that He can create something as grandiose as fits His whim

                    in not much into the astronomy thing,  but it astounds my wife to look at a star filled sky,  it's vastness and majesty,  and it trips Her out that she has a relationship with the one who created it.

                    we get caught up in measuring God thru our capacitative thinking.

                    if we can wrap our head around it,  then yeah,  it "makes sense" and now i accept it.

                    people miss out on so much of who God is,  and what He is capable of relationally to us via that limited mindset.

                    for me,  i never fail to measure possibilities by anything other than what God has said in His word about it,  if He said anything at all.

                    so for me in this case,  the go-to is collective biblical reasoning,  and like i said,  there is zero mention of another inhabited planet,  or civilization besides us.

                    no other mention of anyone while you and i are on this earth,  or once we leave it

                    do i care if i have "distant cousins"?     

                     no.   i just don't even see a hint of it in scripture

                    god is an entity a supreme being from an existence we have no knowledge of other than what we call heaven which is possible the universe, who created god or is he his own creation. How did he create himself from what life form or chemical is he made of is he the light and the truth without substance or shape what elements of this space and time.

                    Seems to me he gave us intelligence to come to some conclusion as to who or what he is. To seek out every aspect of who we are and where we came from.

                    Big John says. You don't hit the number. The number hits you!!!!

                                   I'm not Big John, I'm Four4me, Big John's a friend.
                      rdgrnr's avatar - walt
                      Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
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                      Posted: June 25, 2011, 12:45 am - IP Logged

                      "i don't call everyone a liar"

                      It wasn't meant to be literal.

                      "so,  what say you about stack?"

                      I'd have to bring up some undesireable comments about you in order to answer any questions about another member.  If we didn't already cover that ground, I would do it - but no sense starting another war of words here.

                      "...no sense starting another warof words here."

                       

                      Yeah, I'd guess you'd be tired of wars of words.

                      You have them going on in your mind all the time.

                      The truth - and what you want to be the truth.

                      But with you, the latter one always wins.

                      Reasonable people call the result of that decision - a lie.

                      But you're not reasonable, you're a liberal.

                      And it is your nature to lie.


                                                                   
                                           
                                                               

                       

                       

                       

                       

                                                                                                                         

                      "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                                  --Edmund Burke

                       

                       

                        RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

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                        Posted: June 25, 2011, 12:57 am - IP Logged

                        god is an entity a supreme being from an existence we have no knowledge of other than what we call heaven which is possible the universe, who created god or is he his own creation. How did he create himself from what life form or chemical is he made of is he the light and the truth without substance or shape what elements of this space and time.

                        Seems to me he gave us intelligence to come to some conclusion as to who or what he is. To seek out every aspect of who we are and where we came from.

                        44ME

                        I agree perty much,  I know that the bible says life begin in the sea first and then land.

                        Evolution says the same thing.   God did not create the sun and moon until the forth day

                        so I don't think a day in that regard had anything to do with 24 hours.  The first day could

                        have been millions of years in our time.   I do believe in God but I don't think he got down 

                        on his knees and scoped up some dirt to make adam.  He formed Adam from the dust of the

                        earth.  The bible makes clear that we are earthen vessels and the body is the storage place

                        of life.  I think that even if my body was a product of evolution the real me was a direct action

                        of GOD.  I don't have any problems with evolution except when it is used to say there is no

                        God.   Everything natural will pass away, even this earthen body I live in and will return to dust.

                        The part that remains is the real McCoy and if we think about that part then the body is nothing

                        more than a garment we wear.  Keep it as clean as you can out of respect but from dust to dust

                        ashes to ashes.

                         

                        RL


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                          Posted: June 25, 2011, 12:59 am - IP Logged

                          "What you like to do is play semantics and twist words to attempt to make me look bad, but in actuality, it proves you know nothing about the subjects at hand, so in order to save face, you play these word games."

                          VD never knows what the subject is so he just interjects whatever nonsense he can think of. It doesn't matter what you really said because he will continue on as if you never said it. Discussion is useless with anyone that lies about what you actually said and hypocritically brags about their integrity.

                          The story doesn't say much about the woman with the atheist son or anything about his reason for believing opposite of his mother, but if the story was about someone like VD winning the lottery, there is plenty of evidence why their offspring would believe totally opposite. I don't know if he's just plain ignorant or it's just a very weird style of debate, but either way I haven't seen anyone give him any credibility so why waste your time?

                          "There's much more evidence that clearly shows evolution, but you don't want to talk about that for a good reason."

                          There is evidence some species of animals and plants have adapted over time to changes in environment and climates but there is also evidence that similar species existing under the same circumstances became extinct. Adaption or "survival of the fittest" is probably a better way of explaining than a new specie evolved from extinct older species.

                          We know that "Lucy" existed but without any missing link, we can't say modern man evolved from that species when we know it's possible modern man could have adapted to whatever caused "Lucy's" species to become extinct. Cro-Magnum and Neanderthals are species that probably shared an ancestor with modern man but none with "Lucy".

                          It's so refreshing to have a decent dialogue with an intelligent person like you. And I'm not saying this because you agree with me. Not to mention the fact that the latter quote above helped me understand a little better, how to preceive the missing link and the related styles of investigations, in a new manner never before thought by me. Richard Dawkins talks about this issue quite often. His explanations are interesting too.

                          Thanx fo the heads up...

                            rdgrnr's avatar - walt
                            Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
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                            Posted: June 25, 2011, 1:11 am - IP Logged

                            It's so refreshing to have a decent dialogue with an intelligent person like you. And I'm not saying this because you agree with me. Not to mention the fact that the latter quote above helped me understand a little better, how to preceive the missing link and the related styles of investigations, in a new manner never before thought by me. Richard Dawkins talks about this issue quite often. His explanations are interesting too.

                            Thanx fo the heads up...

                            So does this mean you're not a Spacemonkey anymore?


                                                                         
                                                 
                                                                     

                             

                             

                             

                             

                                                                                                                               

                            "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                                        --Edmund Burke

                             

                             

                              sully16's avatar - sharan
                              Ringleader
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                              Posted: June 25, 2011, 1:22 am - IP Logged

                              "What you like to do is play semantics and twist words to attempt to make me look bad, but in actuality, it proves you know nothing about the subjects at hand, so in order to save face, you play these word games."

                              VD never knows what the subject is so he just interjects whatever nonsense he can think of. It doesn't matter what you really said because he will continue on as if you never said it. Discussion is useless with anyone that lies about what you actually said and hypocritically brags about their integrity.

                              The story doesn't say much about the woman with the atheist son or anything about his reason for believing opposite of his mother, but if the story was about someone like VD winning the lottery, there is plenty of evidence why their offspring would believe totally opposite. I don't know if he's just plain ignorant or it's just a very weird style of debate, but either way I haven't seen anyone give him any credibility so why waste your time?

                              "There's much more evidence that clearly shows evolution, but you don't want to talk about that for a good reason."

                              There is evidence some species of animals and plants have adapted over time to changes in environment and climates but there is also evidence that similar species existing under the same circumstances became extinct. Adaption or "survival of the fittest" is probably a better way of explaining than a new specie evolved from extinct older species.

                              We know that "Lucy" existed but without any missing link, we can't say modern man evolved from that species when we know it's possible modern man could have adapted to whatever caused "Lucy's" species to become extinct. Cro-Magnum and Neanderthals are species that probably shared an ancestor with modern man but none with "Lucy".

                              We all have cro-Magnum DNA, They have not been able to find anyone with Neanderthal Dna, They have found crossbred remains, but they didn't live very long. The Neaderthals are a different species of human and they were here long before Cro-magnum and Lucy, their origin...France...Lucy is considered modern human.

                              Did you exchange a walk on part in the war ?

                              For a lead role in a cage?

                               

                                                                          From Pink Floyd's " Wish you were here"

                                 
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