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Poker star Phil Ivey loses casino case in Britain

Topic closed. 26 replies. Last post 2 years ago by Get paid.

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dpoly1's avatar - driver
PA
United States
Member #66141
October 16, 2008
1672 Posts
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Posted: October 10, 2014, 2:30 pm - IP Logged

The Casino purchased the cards.

Phil just played with the cards that the Casino provided.

He should get his money.

By the way, couldn't the rocket scientists that run the Casino figure something was up well before he won $12.4????

Bash

dpoly1 - Playing the lottery to save the jobs of those that build, transport, sell & maintain luxury items! -

 

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    elkton, maryland
    United States
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    January 18, 2010
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    Posted: October 10, 2014, 4:16 pm - IP Logged

    I'm happy he lost. How is that not cheating? Tag cheater on his name, he deserves it. He had an

    advantage and used it w/o letting someone know about the defective deck....he knew better.

    Tag whatever name fits on him, it's his own fault if people think poorly of him now.

    It is a shame that you are not smart enough to see that the casino allowed this to happen by thinking they would win at the table in the end.They allowed him to play.

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      Kentucky
      United States
      Member #32652
      February 14, 2006
      7322 Posts
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      Posted: October 10, 2014, 5:35 pm - IP Logged

      The basic casino management mentality is that if you are playing with any advantage then that is no longer gambling - and that is totally unacceptable even if you had a halo around your head!

      Fores Fortuna Juvat

      Eddessa_KnightSun Smiley

      "He gave himself an advantage which the game precludes," Judge John Mitting said, as Bloomberg reported. "This is in my view cheating.

      Another judge could see it different by faulting the casino because they allowed the requests. Gaming laws are different in the U.K. and so are the courts.

      The advantage was asking for a Chinese dealer who spoke Mandarian and translated player requests to the supervisors. The dealer told them Cheung Yin Sun wanted the discards placed a certain way because she was superstitious, but neglected to say just all the nines, eights, sevens and sixes. Every time one of those cards appeared, Phil raised his bet. 

      It's difficult for most of us to relate because we can't get private games and negotiate special arrangements. Don Johnson won over $15 from three Atlantic City casinos basically because he guaranteed he would bet millions if the casinos would grant him special arrangements. Phil Ivey did the same at the Borgata and took them for millions.

      It's not all that different than when the MIT students were allowed to create a roll-over in the Mass Cash Winfall game or when the Aussies bought out the Virginia lotto game. When casino supervisors don't understand probabilities, they grant what seems to be minor requests that actually give the player an advantage. When the Horseshoe casino opened in Cincinnati, their Crazy 4 table game lost money because the Super Bonus was not a forced bet. Apparently someone at the top didn't understand the math and how that one bet creates the house edge.

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        Kentucky
        United States
        Member #32652
        February 14, 2006
        7322 Posts
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        Posted: October 10, 2014, 6:06 pm - IP Logged

        I'm happy he lost. How is that not cheating? Tag cheater on his name, he deserves it. He had an

        advantage and used it w/o letting someone know about the defective deck....he knew better.

        Tag whatever name fits on him, it's his own fault if people think poorly of him now.

        "How is that not cheating?"

        The deck was not defective and the game is dealt using several decks. Ivey never touched the cards so basically you're accusing him of cheating because the casino was dumb enough to grant him requests that gave him a distinct advantage?

        The judge "said going forward in the future a casino in the U.K. can be ignorant and should a player come in and win money off them using a new method, the casino doesn't have to be accountable for their ignorance at all," Jacobson said. "...That to me seems an absurdity."

        Think about it, if a court ruled any U.S. casino could refuse payment because of ignorance, casino gambling would be like 50-50 raffle games. When the Texas Lottery discovered they had no cap on their All or Nothing games, it wasn't after hundreds of players won a single jackpot. Do you really believe any U.S. Judge would rule the Lottery didn't have to pay every jackpot winning ticket the top prize because of the mathematical ignorance of not capping the top prize payout?

        Why did they create a $5 million cap when according to an English judge, they could have just claimed ignorance?

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          Kentucky
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          February 14, 2006
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          Posted: October 10, 2014, 6:07 pm - IP Logged

          It is a shame that you are not smart enough to see that the casino allowed this to happen by thinking they would win at the table in the end.They allowed him to play.

          Or they knew the judge would rule in their favor?

            RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
            mid-Ohio
            United States
            Member #9
            March 24, 2001
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            Posted: October 10, 2014, 7:22 pm - IP Logged

            I'm happy he lost. How is that not cheating? Tag cheater on his name, he deserves it. He had an

            advantage and used it w/o letting someone know about the defective deck....he knew better.

            Tag whatever name fits on him, it's his own fault if people think poorly of him now.

            I would be more tempted to think poorly of a casino who thinks if any of its customers win then they must be cheating even if they play by the rules it makes.

             * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
               
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              OldSchoolPa's avatar - Lottery-057.jpg
              Gurnee, Illinois
              United States
              Member #49731
              February 12, 2007
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              Posted: October 11, 2014, 1:46 pm - IP Logged

              I hope people stop frequenting that casino and that it goes out of business. Pay Ivey his money!

              Get MONEY!!! Winning a JACKPOT lottery is all the HOPE and CHANGE I desire!!!  NOW give me MONEY!US Flag

              The guy who won the presidency in 2008 really won the lottery...he is now millions richer, travels in first class style, and even has a staff that would be the envy of the richest Powerball winner (she has a staff of 2). Every night he goes to sleep, he probably plays the close of Dave Chappelle's Show: I'm rich beyatch!

                helpmewin's avatar - dandy
                u$a
                United States
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                February 22, 2011
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                Posted: October 13, 2014, 6:40 am - IP Logged

                The Casino purchased the cards.

                Phil just played with the cards that the Casino provided.

                He should get his money.

                By the way, couldn't the rocket scientists that run the Casino figure something was up well before he won $12.4????

                Bash

                I Agree!

                Let it Snow Snowman

                  RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
                  mid-Ohio
                  United States
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                  March 24, 2001
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                  Posted: October 13, 2014, 10:24 am - IP Logged

                  The Casino purchased the cards.

                  Phil just played with the cards that the Casino provided.

                  He should get his money.

                  By the way, couldn't the rocket scientists that run the Casino figure something was up well before he won $12.4????

                  Bash

                  "By the way, couldn't the rocket scientists that run the Casino figure something was up well before he won $12.4????"

                  Maybe they did but being gamblers too couldn't pass up the chance to try and take his money.  They probably also knew that they could make a winnable case for not paying him if he won.  "Edge sorting" and cards with that type of design and cut being identifiable wasn't news to them. 

                  Casinos pull a similar scam when they notice underage people playing their slots.  If they lose they gladly take their money but if they win they refuse to pay off since they are under age.

                   * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                     
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                    Skibunnylk's avatar - Lottery-059.jpg

                    United States
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                    July 28, 2014
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                    Posted: October 14, 2014, 3:01 pm - IP Logged

                    Poker players look for any "tells" or clue to give themselves an advantage. Phil Ivey did just that. He spotted  a weakness and pounced on it so now the casino thinks he cheated. The house already has the advantage so this is the casino crying after the facts.

                      Skibunnylk's avatar - Lottery-059.jpg

                      United States
                      Member #157701
                      July 28, 2014
                      139 Posts
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                      Posted: October 14, 2014, 3:05 pm - IP Logged

                      "By the way, couldn't the rocket scientists that run the Casino figure something was up well before he won $12.4????"

                      Maybe they did but being gamblers too couldn't pass up the chance to try and take his money.  They probably also knew that they could make a winnable case for not paying him if he won.  "Edge sorting" and cards with that type of design and cut being identifiable wasn't news to them. 

                      Casinos pull a similar scam when they notice underage people playing their slots.  If they lose they gladly take their money but if they win they refuse to pay off since they are under age.

                      So true! I witnessed a teenager who spent over $200 on a slot machine before finally winning over six thousand dollars. The casino refused to  pay her the winnings and kept all the money she lost.

                        Get paid's avatar - Lottery-062.jpg
                        texas
                        United States
                        Member #152324
                        February 11, 2014
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                        Posted: October 15, 2014, 2:38 pm - IP Logged

                        The casino probably selected a judge who they have a personal relation with,to handle the case.