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At least two charged in scheme to manipulate Connecticut Lottery game

Topic closed. 38 replies. Last post 8 months ago by Stack47.

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Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
Zeta Reticuli Star System
United States
Member #30470
January 17, 2006
10353 Posts
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Posted: March 24, 2016, 12:06 am - IP Logged

"I'm still waiting for you to tell me how many chips (actually they are cheques) a $200 buy in got the player in a Faro game and how much each one was worth."

If you really try, do you think you could ask an even dumber question?

"I'll play, you really ought to put your habit of highlighting other people's comments in blue just so you can make your own snide remarks on hold. "

I use yellow to highlight when I'm quoting from from an article, but I reserve my snide remarks to the really ignorant.

"As for the remark about the name Patel being involved in a lot og lottery scams being 'bigoted' I guess you've been asleep too"

Pay attention because there might be a quiz on this later. The post you ignorantly responded with "Typical liberal knee jerk reaction" is no longer being show which means you're doing exactly what I said you were doing; adding fuel to a fire that no longer exist.

Look up the definition of "bigoted remark" and hopefully somebody will explain to you why "Typical liberal knee jerk reaction" is by definition a bigoted remark.

"As for the remark about the name Patel"

Don't be stupid, I never responded to any remarks about the Patels in the article or Patels in general. I responded to your bigoted remark "Typical liberal knee jerk reaction".

Just come out and admit you don't have a clue about the $200 buy in.

It was amazing how you went from 'never heard of Faro' to being the resident expert after going to a website. John Scarne you ain't.

Your only expertise is in being an annoyance.

No go back to your book learning and being a liberal parrot.

Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

Lep

There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

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    Kentucky
    United States
    Member #32652
    February 14, 2006
    7314 Posts
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    Posted: March 24, 2016, 1:17 am - IP Logged

    Just come out and admit you don't have a clue about the $200 buy in.

    It was amazing how you went from 'never heard of Faro' to being the resident expert after going to a website. John Scarne you ain't.

    Your only expertise is in being an annoyance.

    No go back to your book learning and being a liberal parrot.

    "Just come out and admit you don't have a clue about the $200 buy in."

    The last time I looked the topic here is manipulating a lottery terminal, which makes whatever you're talking about way off topic. And really boring.

    "It was amazing how you went from 'never heard of Faro' to being the resident expert after going to a website."

    Why not start a "Faro thread" in the Gaming Forum where you can discuss Faro strategies hoping the game makes a comeback instead of bugging me. 

    "John Scarne you ain't."

    Considering the fact he died over 30 years ago, you're a genius for figuring out that I'm not John Scarne.

    "Your only expertise is in being an annoyance."

    Then this is really going to annoy you. Are you aware of the fact the post you originally responded to was deleted making your remarks look even dumber?

    "No go back to your book learning "

    Yep, I usually do some research on ancient casino games.

    "and being a liberal parrot."

    A "liberal parrot"? LOL 

    Where do you dig up this stuff?

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      Kentucky
      United States
      Member #32652
      February 14, 2006
      7314 Posts
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      Posted: March 24, 2016, 1:29 am - IP Logged

      Nice knowing that all is well with you Stack, how is your team doing or did during March Madness?  On a side note:  It would appear that your cage match with Coin Toss is back on.Big Smile

      Apparently CT took offense over a joke I made to Floyd about the accused being charged with inciting bigotry on LP and now wants to ask me silly questions about defunct casino games. Please tell CT the post he responded to was deleted because now his response makes really no sense. Wink

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        NY
        United States
        Member #23835
        October 16, 2005
        3474 Posts
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        Posted: March 24, 2016, 4:26 am - IP Logged

        "I'm sure the lottery can revoke their ability to sell lottery tickets, but what crime did they commit?"

        They were charged with "three felony counts of first-degree larceny, first-degree computer crimes and rigging a game." and possibly changed with inciting some LP members to make bigoted comments.

        Hiding Behind Computer

        I asked what crime they committed, not what they were accused of.

        Larceny is a broad catch-all encompassing a number of different things. The only one of those things that comes close to matching the specifics of this case would be obtaining property by false pretenses. The problem with that is that they obtained the winning tickets simply by requesting and buying them. That part of it is no different than you or I walking into any lottery retailer and buying a ticket. Where's the false pretense in that?

        They gained an advantage by using the lottery's lousy security and mind-bogglingly stupid implementation of the ticket issuing process to not buy losing tickets by canceling them.  By deliberate and intentional implementation of the software the lottery notified them whether or not a requested ticket was a winner, and permitted them to cancel tickets that were losers. The system may not have behaved the way the lottery expected, but it did what it was designed to do. They didn't get any property as result of canceling the losing tickets, and I'm still not seeing any false pretenses.

        Perhaps the prosecution will argue that the false pretenses or manipulation is in the request for reports that slowed the process, but those requests were permitted by the lottery, and processed as the software was designed to do. There's a clear intent to gain an advantage, but they're really not manipulating the outcome because the outcome results from the software doing what it's supposed to do. They didn't rig any equipment, introduce malware, or change any software. The prosecution might argue that the overall effect of all those individual actions amount to false pretenses, but I don't see the legitimacy of bootstrapping a claim of illegality based on a bunch of legal actions simply because of the result. They found a way to improve their odds of winning to something far better than the lottery intended, and the lottery apparently cooperated every single time they asked for a transaction.

        I can only assume the computer crime is based on using a computer (the terminal and/or central computer issuing tickets), but that fails if the first charge fails. Rigging a game is just a wild leap, because they did absolutely nothing to influence the individual tickets - they just asked for them using the standard lottery procedures and the lottery issued those tickets according to standard procedure.

        In order to convict somebody of a crime the government is required to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they did a particular thing(s), and that the particular thing(s) is a crime. The legislature could have passed a law making it illegal to take advantage of poorly designed software to gain an advantage another party didn't intend, but they didn't. I don't doubt that the legislature would want this sort of thing to be a crime, but I'm not seeing anything in the statutes that clearly makes this a crime. If there's ambiguity in the legislation the interpretation has to favor the accused.

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          Kentucky
          United States
          Member #32652
          February 14, 2006
          7314 Posts
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          Posted: March 24, 2016, 8:32 pm - IP Logged

          I asked what crime they committed, not what they were accused of.

          Larceny is a broad catch-all encompassing a number of different things. The only one of those things that comes close to matching the specifics of this case would be obtaining property by false pretenses. The problem with that is that they obtained the winning tickets simply by requesting and buying them. That part of it is no different than you or I walking into any lottery retailer and buying a ticket. Where's the false pretense in that?

          They gained an advantage by using the lottery's lousy security and mind-bogglingly stupid implementation of the ticket issuing process to not buy losing tickets by canceling them.  By deliberate and intentional implementation of the software the lottery notified them whether or not a requested ticket was a winner, and permitted them to cancel tickets that were losers. The system may not have behaved the way the lottery expected, but it did what it was designed to do. They didn't get any property as result of canceling the losing tickets, and I'm still not seeing any false pretenses.

          Perhaps the prosecution will argue that the false pretenses or manipulation is in the request for reports that slowed the process, but those requests were permitted by the lottery, and processed as the software was designed to do. There's a clear intent to gain an advantage, but they're really not manipulating the outcome because the outcome results from the software doing what it's supposed to do. They didn't rig any equipment, introduce malware, or change any software. The prosecution might argue that the overall effect of all those individual actions amount to false pretenses, but I don't see the legitimacy of bootstrapping a claim of illegality based on a bunch of legal actions simply because of the result. They found a way to improve their odds of winning to something far better than the lottery intended, and the lottery apparently cooperated every single time they asked for a transaction.

          I can only assume the computer crime is based on using a computer (the terminal and/or central computer issuing tickets), but that fails if the first charge fails. Rigging a game is just a wild leap, because they did absolutely nothing to influence the individual tickets - they just asked for them using the standard lottery procedures and the lottery issued those tickets according to standard procedure.

          In order to convict somebody of a crime the government is required to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they did a particular thing(s), and that the particular thing(s) is a crime. The legislature could have passed a law making it illegal to take advantage of poorly designed software to gain an advantage another party didn't intend, but they didn't. I don't doubt that the legislature would want this sort of thing to be a crime, but I'm not seeing anything in the statutes that clearly makes this a crime. If there's ambiguity in the legislation the interpretation has to favor the accused.

          I Agree!

            Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
            Zeta Reticuli Star System
            United States
            Member #30470
            January 17, 2006
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            Posted: March 24, 2016, 11:56 pm - IP Logged

            "Just come out and admit you don't have a clue about the $200 buy in."

            The last time I looked the topic here is manipulating a lottery terminal, which makes whatever you're talking about way off topic. And really boring.

            "It was amazing how you went from 'never heard of Faro' to being the resident expert after going to a website."

            Why not start a "Faro thread" in the Gaming Forum where you can discuss Faro strategies hoping the game makes a comeback instead of bugging me. 

            "John Scarne you ain't."

            Considering the fact he died over 30 years ago, you're a genius for figuring out that I'm not John Scarne.

            "Your only expertise is in being an annoyance."

            Then this is really going to annoy you. Are you aware of the fact the post you originally responded to was deleted making your remarks look even dumber?

            "No go back to your book learning "

            Yep, I usually do some research on ancient casino games.

            "and being a liberal parrot."

            A "liberal parrot"? LOL 

            Where do you dig up this stuff?

            Stack,

            You need to put your ego in park. I guess you forgot you went from not knowing about Faro to telling us all about it, sharing your vast knowledge.

            Doing research on 'ancient' casino games is exactly what you did in your attempt to dazzle us. Like all pathological liar your don't have a good enough memory to pull it off.

            The more you reveal that you don;t know what you are talking about the less people will listen to you.

            From here on in you are not worth any more keystrokes, but in saying adios to you I'll share this gem of yours for all to see:

            Stack, November 2014:

            Ronda Rousey could beat either of them (Bruce Lee or Chuck Norris). But to answer your second question, the game has changed so much since the days of Norris and Lee, the best pound for pound is debatable.

            https://www.lotterypost.com/thread/283272

            Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

            Lep

            There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

              Avatar
              Kentucky
              United States
              Member #32652
              February 14, 2006
              7314 Posts
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              Posted: March 25, 2016, 1:33 am - IP Logged

              Stack,

              You need to put your ego in park. I guess you forgot you went from not knowing about Faro to telling us all about it, sharing your vast knowledge.

              Doing research on 'ancient' casino games is exactly what you did in your attempt to dazzle us. Like all pathological liar your don't have a good enough memory to pull it off.

              The more you reveal that you don;t know what you are talking about the less people will listen to you.

              From here on in you are not worth any more keystrokes, but in saying adios to you I'll share this gem of yours for all to see:

              Stack, November 2014:

              Ronda Rousey could beat either of them (Bruce Lee or Chuck Norris). But to answer your second question, the game has changed so much since the days of Norris and Lee, the best pound for pound is debatable.

              https://www.lotterypost.com/thread/283272

              "I guess you forgot you went from not knowing about Faro to telling us all about it, sharing your vast knowledge."

              I remember the thread where you changed the topic to Faro after another poster said "Most of Coin Toss posts are also an act of deception." On page 3 you even questioned the PA Lottery annual report and you tried to create an argument where no argument existed.

              There were a possible 310,000 $500 winners and any body with an ounce of sense will agree that "lots of players do win". But I after I said to you "It's simple math, but you can't comprehend how it's possible SOME players actually win even after you were told how much the PA lottery paid out last year." you pathetically wanted to argue the difference between "some" and "lots".

              "is exactly what you did in your attempt to dazzle us"

              When it was said your "posts are also an act of deception." I responded with the facts by saying "I wouldn't go that far, but still waiting for any information of value from them."

              "Stack, November 2014:  "Ronda Rousey could beat either of them (Bruce Lee or Chuck Norris).  But to answer your second question, the game has changed so much since the days of Norris and Lee, the best pound for pound is debatable."

              This is exactly what I mean about you trying to create arguments where there should be no argument. Bruce Lee died 14 years before Ronda was born so that fight could never happen. And Norris is 76 years-old so it's obvious any answer to that question fantasy. You're probably arguing with children over the outcome of the Batman v Superman movie.

              "A few years ago, I bought several gaming books at a yard sale and it's amazing how many of those same stories I see posted on LP. I never heardthe Faro story before, but maybe that's because there is probably nobody alive that played casino Faro."

              Did you miss where I said "I never heard the Faro story" or are were you just pretending or being dishonest saying I said I never heard of Faro?

              And which part of "probably nobody alive" confused you? You do understand what "probably" means don't ya? 

              Do you actually have an information of value to add to the scheme to to manipulate Connecticut Lottery game?

                CARBOB's avatar - FL LOTTERY_LOGO.png
                ORLANDO, FLORIDA
                United States
                Member #4924
                June 3, 2004
                5903 Posts
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                Posted: March 25, 2016, 9:20 am - IP Logged

                Why would the Lottery Commissioners even allow someone named Patel, be involved with the lottery? There are many incidents in many states where the Patel's have committed acts of crime  involving the lottery.

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                  Kentucky
                  United States
                  Member #32652
                  February 14, 2006
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                  Posted: March 25, 2016, 11:22 pm - IP Logged

                  Why would the Lottery Commissioners even allow someone named Patel, be involved with the lottery? There are many incidents in many states where the Patel's have committed acts of crime  involving the lottery.

                  I live in rural KY and more than half the stores selling lottery tickets near me are owned by Asians including the county cashing agent. Some were born in the U.S. so it's not like all the stores are foreign owned. Each state lottery has different rules and regulations to put lottery terminals into stores and obviously criminal records are checked.

                  It's the U.S. Constitution that "allows" the Patel and the Hitler families to be involved in state lottery providing they follow the state lottery rules.