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Wheel Design - Help Wanted

Topic closed. 21 replies. Last post 12 years ago by Hyperdimension.

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Bangalore
India
Member #2444
October 4, 2003
234 Posts
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Posted: November 13, 2004, 11:01 am - IP Logged

Hi All,

Recently, I came across a pick-6 wheel that uses 14 numbers in such a way as to cover all 1000 possible fours in just 40 lines.

My question is:


  • What are the implications of expanding that wheel to cover more numbers (say 21, 28, etc. or ALL 49) numbers for a standard 649 lotto?! I mean in what way will it better our chances - in terms of coverage?!
  • With its tightly woven 4of6if14 structure, what are the chances of trapping the 5th number?!

I want this help from all wheel design experts and my learned friends and anyone interested.

Thanks!

Just Monkeying Around With Numbers...!

    RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
    mid-Ohio
    United States
    Member #9
    March 24, 2001
    19904 Posts
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    Posted: November 13, 2004, 1:39 pm - IP Logged

    When I do the math, there are 1001 possible combinations of 4's in 14 numbers, 15 combinations of 4's per combination of 6's, which means the most combination of 4's that 40 lines could cover would be 600 and that's only if there are no repeat.  I'm no wheel expert, but I would guess that the wheel was designed to cover all 364 possible combinations of 3's in 14 numbers.

    RJOh

     * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
       
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      RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
      mid-Ohio
      United States
      Member #9
      March 24, 2001
      19904 Posts
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      Posted: November 13, 2004, 2:46 pm - IP Logged
      Quote: Originally posted by DreamLotto on November 13, 2004



      With its tightly woven 4of6if14 structure, what are the chances of trapping the 5th number?!

       






      I should add that 4of6if6of14 structure doesn't mean that all combinations of 4's of 14 is covered but that at least one combination of 4 is covered in all the possible combinations of 6's of 14 numbers, for example 1-2-3-4 will hit if 1-2-3-4-5-6 is hit but 1234 won't cover every possible combination of 4's in 123456.

      RJOh 

       * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
         
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        BobP's avatar - bobp avatar.png
        Dump Water Florida
        United States
        Member #380
        June 5, 2002
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        Posted: November 14, 2004, 4:02 am - IP Logged
        Quote: Originally posted by DreamLotto on November 13, 2004



        Hi All,

        Recently, I came across a pick-6 wheel that uses 14 numbers in such a way as to cover all 1000 possible fours in just 40 lines.

        My question is:


        • What are the implications of expanding that wheel to cover more numbers (say 21, 28, etc. or ALL 49) numbers for a standard 649 lotto?! I mean in what way will it better our chances - in terms of coverage?!
        • With its tightly woven 4of6if14 structure, what are the chances of trapping the 5th number?!

        I want this help from all wheel design experts and my learned friends and anyone interested.

        Thanks!





        Hard to imagine the wheel you found being tightly woven.

        A (14,6,4,6) 4if6in14n wheel needs 14 lines to guarantee a 4 number prize when all 6 of the winning numbers are among the 14.

        A (14,6,4,5) 4if5of6in14n wheel needs 31 lines when 5 of the 6 winning numbers are among the 14.

        A (14,6,4,4) 4if4of6in14n wheel needs 80 lines when 4 of the 6 winning numbers are among the 14.

        A (15,6,4,4) needs 118
        A (16,6,4,4) needs 152
        A (17,6,4,4) needs 188
        A (18,6,4,4) needs 236
        A (19,6,4,4) needs 325 see where this is going . . .

        Sadly as the number of numbers played goes up the number of lines needed to cover them goes up exponentionally.  Wheels are only the answer when you have your predictions under control.  If you could rely on getting all 6 winning numbers among 19 the 325 line wheel would give you a profit perhaps even if you could only do it one time in three or four tries. BobP

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          Bangalore
          India
          Member #2444
          October 4, 2003
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          Posted: November 14, 2004, 9:41 am - IP Logged

          Thanks RJoh and BobP...I knew it...The two of you would be the FIRST ones to reply!! I like it...LOL...It is really nice to see learned and such down-to-earth gentlemen like you come to help the needy ones...

          For the fear of violating the copyrights, I was hesitant to give that wheel here. It is found in the software called "Lottery Statistic Analyser" by http://www.micracom.com and the wheels details are on the page http://www.lsa-lottery-software.com/Perms.htm. One of their wheels is explained in detail. The wheel that I was talking about is ONLY accessible after you install the software. It can't be printed out in a trial version, so I copied it on a text file and was tinkering with it with a view to expand it to include MORE numbers, at the same time NOT disturbing the coverage.

          Hope you will share more ideas after you see it in detail. Or can I send it to your private inbox here?!

          Good Luck!

          Just Monkeying Around With Numbers...!

            RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
            mid-Ohio
            United States
            Member #9
            March 24, 2001
            19904 Posts
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            Posted: November 14, 2004, 3:16 pm - IP Logged

            Lottery Statistic Analyzer claims to do many of the things that I do myself in picking numbers which is great, but doing them myself allows me to appreciate the limitations of my strategy when I decide how much to gamble and evaluate my wins and loses accordingly.  Playing the lotteries even with great software is still a gamble and not understanding the its strategy doesn't help.  Understanding the strategy that I'm using doesn't make me the winner of a lottery, but I do understand the game plan.

            RJOh

             * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
               
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              RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
              mid-Ohio
              United States
              Member #9
              March 24, 2001
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              Posted: November 14, 2004, 9:44 pm - IP Logged

              I downloaded a trail copy of Lottery Statistic Analyser and looked at the MegaMillions and OhioSuperLottoPlus histories.  It was easy to use but I noticed a couple of things that were different from other programs that I've looked at.

              1. When updating files, seven numbers has to be entered weather you're working with a 5+0,5+B,6+0 or a 6+B format.

              2. Bonus and regular numbers are grouped together to get number frequencies which for PowerBall would make numbers lower than 43 seem more popular.  I would have preferred that regular and bonus numbers frequencies were separated.

              RJOh 

               * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                 
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                United States
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                November 14, 2004
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                Posted: November 14, 2004, 10:47 pm - IP Logged

                 Rotate matrix is a very effective method to bet,so that I recommend it strongly. Global famous lottery ticket predict " rotatory system " that Gail Howard(American) invent, select number law to bring up 74 Grand Prix winner already, whether this one because of " rotate matrix " whom mathematics construct originally select number law , key aim its ". Realize the result of the polymorphous bet the extremely low cost. Buy ten polymorphous necessary note of number it counts to be 120 note , cost 120 , it is need 10 note to rotate, cost only 10. But the one that should point out is: This kind of method
                has its very great defect too, that is though 6 numbers of keeping, but very apt to miss Grand Prix. And, the prerequisite of this method is: 7 numbers announcing the winners in a lottery must be within 10 numbers selected.10 number choose 7 itself very difficult saying , though choosen , depend on the position to rotate you arranged, otherwise, Grand Prix can be easily " rotated " away,that increases difficulty to operate to the person who want to win Grand Prix virtually. we have
                carried out a scientific test on " rotates and makes a bet ". We choose 7 to guarantee it of 6 from 10, guarantee that the probability of 6 has little trouble basically(only fail to guarantee 6 exceptionally), but the probability of getting Grand Prix is very low. A large number of test data shows: After choosing 7 prize-winning numbers in 10 numbers, the probability which obtains Special award is 9. 86%, that is to say , you choose 7 prize-winning numbers with 10 times, the probability that you get Special award have only 98.6%, the probability which obtains second prize is 15.38%. Compared with polymorphous
                bet(old method) that large fund fishes on a large scale(returns empty sometimes even ),obviously do things steadily and surely , it is with little investment and with instant effect, so it is especially suitable for the lottery ticket players of the salariat.
                For example :
                If we will buy 10 numbers:06 08 12 13 14 15 26 27,if we use Full wheel it's need 56 lines(56 dollar ):
                1. 06 08 12 13 14 2. 06 08 12 13 15 3. 06 08 12 13 26
                4. 06 08 12 13 27 5. 06 08 12 14 15 6. 06 08 12 14 26
                7. 06 08 12 14 27 8. 06 08 12 15 26 9. 06 08 12 15 27
                10. 06 08 12 26 27 11. 06 08 13 14 15 12. 06 08 13 14 26
                13. 06 08 13 14 27 14. 06 08 13 15 26 15. 06 08 13 15 27
                16. 06 08 13 26 27 17. 06 08 14 15 26 18. 06 08 14 15 27
                19. 06 08 14 26 27 20. 06 08 15 26 27 21. 06 12 13 14 15
                22. 06 12 13 14 26 23. 06 12 13 14 27 24. 06 12 13 15 26
                25. 06 12 13 15 27 26. 06 12 13 26 27 27. 06 12 14 15 26
                28. 06 12 14 15 27 29. 06 12 14 26 27 30. 06 12 15 26 27
                31. 06 13 14 15 26 32. 06 13 14 15 27 33. 06 13 14 26 27
                34. 06 13 15 26 27 35. 06 14 15 26 27 36. 08 12 13 14 15
                37. 08 12 13 14 26 38. 08 12 13 14 27 39. 08 12 13 15 26
                40. 08 12 13 15 27 41. 08 12 13 26 27 42. 08 12 14 15 26
                43. 08 12 14 15 27 44. 08 12 14 26 27 45. 08 12 15 26 27
                46. 08 13 14 15 26 47. 08 13 14 15 27 48. 08 13 14 26 27
                49. 08 13 15 26 27 50. 08 14 15 26 27 51. 12 13 14 15 26
                52. 12 13 14 15 27 53. 12 13 14 26 27 54. 12 13 15 26 27
                55. 12 14 15 26 27 56. 13 14 15 26 27
                If we use Rotate Matrix,it's only 5 lines.
                (5 dollar):
                1. 06 08 12 16 27
                2. 06 12 13 14 27
                3. 06 12 13 15 27
                4. 06 12 14 15 27
                5. 08 13 14 15 16

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                  Canada
                  Member #6394
                  August 21, 2004
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                  Posted: November 15, 2004, 5:47 am - IP Logged
                  Quote: Originally posted by ghost1020 on November 14, 2004


                   Rotate matrix is a very effective method to bet,so that I recommend it strongly. Global famous lottery ticket predict " rotatory system " that Gail Howard(American) invent, select number law to bring up 74 Grand Prix winner already, whether this one because of " rotate matrix " whom mathematics construct originally select number law , key aim its ". Realize the result of the polymorphous bet the extremely low cost. Buy ten polymorphous necessary note of number it counts to be 120 note , cost 120 , it is need 10 note to rotate, cost only 10. But the one that should point out is: This kind of method
                  has its very great defect too, that is though 6 numbers of keeping, but very apt to miss Grand Prix. And, the prerequisite of this method is: 7 numbers announcing the winners in a lottery must be within 10 numbers selected.10 number choose 7 itself very difficult saying , though choosen , depend on the position to rotate you arranged, otherwise, Grand Prix can be easily " rotated " away,that increases difficulty to operate to the person who want to win Grand Prix virtually. we have
                  carried out a scientific test on " rotates and makes a bet ". We choose 7 to guarantee it of 6 from 10, guarantee that the probability of 6 has little trouble basically(only fail to guarantee 6 exceptionally), but the probability of getting Grand Prix is very low. A large number of test data shows: After choosing 7 prize-winning numbers in 10 numbers, the probability which obtains Special award is 9. 86%, that is to say , you choose 7 prize-winning numbers with 10 times, the probability that you get Special award have only 98.6%, the probability which obtains second prize is 15.38%. Compared with polymorphous
                  bet(old method) that large fund fishes on a large scale(returns empty sometimes even ),obviously do things steadily and surely , it is with little investment and with instant effect, so it is especially suitable for the lottery ticket players of the salariat.
                  For example :
                  If we will buy 10 numbers:06 08 12 13 14 15 26 27,if we use Full wheel it's need 56 lines(56 dollar ):
                  1. 06 08 12 13 14 2. 06 08 12 13 15 3. 06 08 12 13 26
                  4. 06 08 12 13 27 5. 06 08 12 14 15 6. 06 08 12 14 26
                  7. 06 08 12 14 27 8. 06 08 12 15 26 9. 06 08 12 15 27
                  10. 06 08 12 26 27 11. 06 08 13 14 15 12. 06 08 13 14 26
                  13. 06 08 13 14 27 14. 06 08 13 15 26 15. 06 08 13 15 27
                  16. 06 08 13 26 27 17. 06 08 14 15 26 18. 06 08 14 15 27
                  19. 06 08 14 26 27 20. 06 08 15 26 27 21. 06 12 13 14 15
                  22. 06 12 13 14 26 23. 06 12 13 14 27 24. 06 12 13 15 26
                  25. 06 12 13 15 27 26. 06 12 13 26 27 27. 06 12 14 15 26
                  28. 06 12 14 15 27 29. 06 12 14 26 27 30. 06 12 15 26 27
                  31. 06 13 14 15 26 32. 06 13 14 15 27 33. 06 13 14 26 27
                  34. 06 13 15 26 27 35. 06 14 15 26 27 36. 08 12 13 14 15
                  37. 08 12 13 14 26 38. 08 12 13 14 27 39. 08 12 13 15 26
                  40. 08 12 13 15 27 41. 08 12 13 26 27 42. 08 12 14 15 26
                  43. 08 12 14 15 27 44. 08 12 14 26 27 45. 08 12 15 26 27
                  46. 08 13 14 15 26 47. 08 13 14 15 27 48. 08 13 14 26 27
                  49. 08 13 15 26 27 50. 08 14 15 26 27 51. 12 13 14 15 26
                  52. 12 13 14 15 27 53. 12 13 14 26 27 54. 12 13 15 26 27
                  55. 12 14 15 26 27 56. 13 14 15 26 27
                  If we use Rotate Matrix,it's only 5 lines.
                  (5 dollar):
                  1. 06 08 12 16 27
                  2. 06 12 13 14 27
                  3. 06 12 13 15 27
                  4. 06 12 14 15 27
                  5. 08 13 14 15 16




                  Unfortunately, can't get  what you want to say. Either Im tired after working, or to many rotations and out of the ordinary words were used. Hope that you or somebody that understood your post may explain it a little further.. 


                  Buy ten polymorphous necessary note of number it counts to be 120 note,etc??????

                    RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
                    mid-Ohio
                    United States
                    Member #9
                    March 24, 2001
                    19904 Posts
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                    Posted: November 15, 2004, 10:43 am - IP Logged

                    Fenix,

                    The ghost words were nonsense.  That's probably the reason he's a guest after that one post.  Not everything that's hard to understand is worth knowing.

                    RJOh

                     * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                       
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                      Canada
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                      Posted: November 15, 2004, 11:07 am - IP Logged

                      Yep& it seems he wasnt enough smart to avoid Grand Prix, note, and a few other words that a search points to the alike post, certain person and his funny and fake systems&

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                        Pretoria
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                        Posted: November 26, 2004, 11:38 am - IP Logged

                        DreamLotto,

                        I don't believe you when you say that you have a pick-6 wheel that uses 14 numbers in such a way as to cover all 1000 possible fours in just 40 lines. As far as I can make out the record is 80!

                        Why don't you post this wheel so that we can test it?

                        Cheers,

                        BushHappy

                        Tata Syndicate Boss

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                          Bangalore
                          India
                          Member #2444
                          October 4, 2003
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                          Posted: November 27, 2004, 10:19 am - IP Logged

                          Dear All,

                          I am posting the wheel under discussion, with the express understanding that it is a property and copyrighted material belonging to the creators of Lotto Statistic Analyser (LSA). Please do not sell or publish it. Let's use it for discussion, testing, and/or improvising it by expanding it to play more numbers while preserving the guarantee. As per LSA, this wheel "covers 1000 four-ball combos in just 40 lines". As far as my interest goes, if the coverage is what they claim, then I guess, I can expand it to play more numbers in (in multiples of 7) a 649 lotto/Keno, while not disturbing the coverage.

                          Wheel Details:
                          Pool Size = 14
                          Bet Size  = 40
                          Wins = Match 4 if your 14 numbers have 5 drawn numbers

                          01 02 03 04 05 06
                          01 02 03 04 07 09
                          01 02 03 05 07 08
                          01 02 03 05 09 11
                          01 02 04 08 09 11
                          01 02 05 06 08 09
                          01 02 06 07 09 11
                          01 02 10 12 13 14
                          01 03 04 05 08 11
                          01 03 04 06 07 11
                          01 03 04 06 08 09
                          01 03 10 12 13 14
                          01 04 05 07 08 09
                          01 04 10 12 13 14
                          01 05 06 07 08 11
                          01 05 10 12 13 14
                          02 03 04 07 08 11
                          02 03 05 06 07 11
                          02 03 06 07 08 09
                          02 03 10 12 13 14
                          02 04 05 06 07 09
                          02 04 05 06 08 11
                          02 04 10 12 13 14
                          02 05 10 12 13 14
                          03 04 05 07 09 11
                          03 04 10 12 13 14
                          03 05 06 08 09 11
                          03 05 10 12 13 14
                          04 05 10 12 13 14
                          05 06 07 08 09 11
                          06 07 10 12 13 14
                          06 08 10 12 13 14
                          06 09 10 12 13 14
                          06 10 11 12 13 14
                          07 08 10 12 13 14
                          07 09 10 12 13 14
                          07 10 11 12 13 14
                          08 09 10 12 13 14
                          08 10 11 12 13 14
                          09 10 11 12 13 14

                          Good Luck!

                          Just Monkeying Around With Numbers...!

                            BobP's avatar - bobp avatar.png
                            Dump Water Florida
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                            Member #380
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                            Posted: November 28, 2004, 1:03 am - IP Logged

                            Copied and pasted the wheel into CoverMaster. You must have mis-typed a number because it came up slightly less then perfect, but CoverMaster's [Optimize] fixed it instantly. 

                            The wheel checks out as a (14,6,4,5,40) guaranteeing 100% a 4if5of6in14 numbers 40 lines or 3, 4if6 prizes.  Checking Iliya Bluskov's Lotbook I find a 4if5of6in14 wheel takes only 31 lines, so the wheel is nothing special.

                            The only way to expand a Pick-6 wheel to 7 numbers is to add a key, king, power number to all the lines as the 15th number.  Otherwise a totally new wheel has to be generated.

                            Fixed version
                             1  2  3  4  5  6
                             1  2  3  4  7  9
                             1  2  3  5  7  8
                             1  2  3  5  9 11
                             1  2  4  8  9 11
                             1  2  5  6  8  9
                             1  2  6  7  9 11
                             1  2 10 12 13 14
                             1  3  4  5  8 11
                             1  3  4  6  7 11
                             1  3  4  6  8  9
                             1  3 10 12 13 14
                             1  4  5  7  8  9
                             1  4 10 12 13 14
                             1  5  6  7  8 11
                             1  5 10 12 13 14
                             2  3  4  7  8 11
                             2  3  5  6  7 11
                             2  3  6  7  8  9
                             2  3 10 12 13 14
                             2  4  5  6  7  9
                             2  4  5  6  8 11
                             2  4 10 12 13 14
                             2  5 10 12 13 14
                             3  4  5  7  9 11
                             3  4 10 12 13 14
                             3  5  6  8  9 11
                             3  5 10 12 13 14
                             4  5 10 12 13 14
                             4  6  7  8  9 11
                             6  7 10 12 13 14
                             6  8 10 12 13 14
                             6  9 10 12 13 14
                             6 10 11 12 13 14
                             7  8 10 12 13 14
                             7  9 10 12 13 14
                             7 10 11 12 13 14
                             8  9 10 12 13 14
                             8 10 11 12 13 14
                             9 10 11 12 13 14
                            end 40 lines (14,6,4,5,40)

                            Not to step on anyone's toes, here's the wheel in 32 lines.

                             1  2  3  5  6 13
                             1  2  3  7  8 10
                             1  2  4  6  8 12
                             1  2  5  9 11 12
                             1  2  6 10 11 13
                             1  2  7  9 13 14
                             1  3  4  5  7 14
                             1  3  4  9 11 12
                             1  3 10 12 13 14
                             1  4  5  8  9 10
                             1  4  7 10 11 14
                             1  5  6  8 11 14
                             1  6  7  9 10 12
                             2  3  4 10 12 14
                             2  3  5  8  9 13
                             2  3  6  7 11 12
                             2  3  6  9 11 14
                             2  4  5  7  8  9
                             2  4  5  9 10 13
                             2  5  6  7 10 14
                             2  8 10 11 12 14
                             3  4  5  6 10 11
                             3  4  7  8 11 13
                             3  5  8  9 12 14
                             3  6  7  8  9 10
                             4  5 11 12 13 14
                             4  6  7  9 12 13
                             4  6  8  9 13 14
                             5  7  8 10 12 13
                             5  7  9 10 11 13
                             6  7  8 12 13 14
                             7  8  9 11 12 13
                            end 32 lines (14,6,5,4,32) interesting same 3, 4if6 prizes
                            no big loss in the reduction. BobP

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                              Posted: November 28, 2004, 4:35 am - IP Logged

                              LottoDesign(14,6,4,5,L=1)=31



                              1 2 3 4 5 6

                              1 2 3 7 8 9

                              1 2 4 10 11 12

                              1 2 5 7 8 10

                              1 2 5 10 11 13

                              1 2 6 7 12 13

                              1 3 4 6 7 11

                              1 3 5 9 12 13

                              1 3 7 10 13 14

                              1 4 5 7 9 14

                              1 4 8 9 13 14

                              1 5 6 8 9 10

                              1 6 8 11 12 14

                              2 3 4 8 12 14

                              2 3 5 7 11 14

                              2 3 6 9 11 14

                              2 4 7 9 10 13

                              2 4 8 11 12 13

                              2 5 6 8 9 11

                              2 5 9 10 12 14

                              2 6 7 8 10 14

                              3 4 7 12 13 14

                              3 4 8 9 10 11

                              3 5 6 7 10 12

                              3 5 8 11 13 14

                              3 6 8 10 12 13

                              4 5 6 9 12 13

                              4 5 6 10 13 14

                              4 5 7 8 11 12

                              6 7 8 9 11 13

                              7 9 10 11 12 14