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Is it possible....

Topic closed. 25 replies. Last post 11 years ago by RJOh.

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Honduras
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Posted: September 12, 2005, 10:35 pm - IP Logged

Guys, over my time researching lotteries I've heard people say that if they had the resources they would play a vast amount of combinations...But there is something a lot of people don't realize...I believe that if you wanted to play 1 million not alone 2 million combinations in period of 1 day or 2 or 3 days it could not be possible...Think about it if you were to be on the gas station waiting in line to play your combinations you could not play (pay for them) for example 1,000 combinations at once...if you recreate the scenario you would know that there would be people behind you WAITING, who might just grumble impatiently: "hurry up, i too want to play"...To play 1,000 combinations i would say that it would take you 15 minutes to pay for them....If you have pay for your ticket before you would know that the machine use to scan lottery playslips "IS NOT YOUR GROCERY SCANNER"...Not only that i believe that if you wanted to play 100,000 combinations in one day you would need the help of hundreds of people, to write and pay for your combinations, all of this at once all sinchronized on different locations......So the idea that there would  be a rich person that could play 4 million combinations in the period given to play the powerball of any 6/49 lotto is ridiculous....There is just not enough time....Guys please post your opinions i would love to hear from you...

 

michael brown

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    Posted: September 12, 2005, 10:55 pm - IP Logged

    It has been done successfully before. An Australian group came to Virginia, and bought up all the combinations for the Virginia Lotto. The jackpot was enough to make a profit on the whole thing (like $20 million over 20 years). If you have a lot of people to help, and if the jackpot is big enough, it's a practical scheme. But such opportunities are about as likely as winning a jackpot, because you need a lot of friends and a lot of money for this to work.

    (insert signature here)

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      perth western australia
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      Posted: September 12, 2005, 11:59 pm - IP Logged

      i think the guy from australia won it yes-- he was romanian and he fled australia very quikly with all the moola--- he came from sydney and is now somewhere in Russia--- I remember the story well-- Who knows if hes alive or iced!!!!

        RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
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        Posted: September 13, 2005, 2:35 am - IP Logged

        People use to travel around the world to play for a $20M jackpot, now many of them won't travel to the corner store to get a ticket  for that amount.  Some have post here that a dollar is too much to pay for ticket if the jackpot is less than $200M.

         * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
           
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          Honduras
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          Posted: September 13, 2005, 12:26 pm - IP Logged

          Well guys, i do not believe a single word you all are saying...It is impossible...I believe that that australian guy both perhaps 100,000 and won the jackpot, but not more than 4 million...

          michael brown

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            Greenwich, CT
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            Posted: September 13, 2005, 12:39 pm - IP Logged

            Here's what I've found about the Australia-VA connexion:

            The following comes from a 2003 posting on www.signonsandiego.com.

            "In 1992, an Australian group attempted to corner a $27 million Virginia Lotto jackpot and managed to buy 2.4 million of the 7.1 million possible combinations before time ran out. They didn't win."

            Perfect opportunity...jackpot at four times greater than the odds...just not enough people.  I'll see if I can find how many were in the group.

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              Greenwich, CT
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              Posted: September 13, 2005, 12:45 pm - IP Logged

              The plot thickens...

              may.casinocitytimes.com reports:

              "(Turning a profit) was demonstrated with clinical precision by a mysterious group known as the International Lottery Fund of Australia. On March 5,1992 an Australian lottery syndicate comprising 2500 members claimed the $27 million jackpot at the Virginia state lottery. They had bought approximately 5 million of the 7 million possible ticket combinations, working round the clock to cover each combination with modern technology."

              I love trying to uncover the truth about half urban legends.

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                Greenwich, CT
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                Posted: September 13, 2005, 1:10 pm - IP Logged

                http://www.holycross.edu/departments/economics/vmatheso/research/lottery2.pdf

                Victor Matheson has a nifty paper dealing with whether the $27 million Virginia lotto was a good bet, and some neat graphs and formulas.  Unfortunately I don't see any validation on whether the group won or lost!

                He does bring up a good point about expected return...when buying the "Trump Ticket" (all possible combinations), you have to consider how many tickets will be sold for that drawing.  Extrapolating, I would think you could make a case where buying every combination in a $500m MM drawing would be smarter than buying every combination in a $750m drawing, because of the number of expected winners.

                Any comments?

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                  Posted: September 13, 2005, 1:21 pm - IP Logged

                  http://www.holycross.edu/departments/economics/vmatheso/research/lottery2.pdf

                  Victor Matheson has a nifty paper dealing with whether the $27 million Virginia lotto was a good bet, and some neat graphs and formulas.  Unfortunately I don't see any validation on whether the group won or lost!

                  He does bring up a good point about expected return...when buying the "Trump Ticket" (all possible combinations), you have to consider how many tickets will be sold for that drawing.  Extrapolating, I would think you could make a case where buying every combination in a $350m MM drawing would be smarter than buying every combination in a $500m drawing, because of the number of expected winners.

                  Any comments?

                  I'd say the possibility of other winners is the torpedo fate could launch at this sort of effort, no matter what size the jackpot.  I'd agree the chances of it would be a lot better with $500M than it would be at $350m.

                  But the physical limitations of buying that many tickets seem to me to be almost insurmountable, in any case.  If a consortium of players was large enough to do it the split would grind it down to a point where it wouldn't be worth the trouble.

                  Maybe if someone, maybe a Jack Whittaker type owned a store with a machine that would allow locking the front doors and feeding it slips from the moment it was possible to do so until the closing moments, using his employees working around the clock, maybe then it could be done.  But just getting the slips filled out would require a legion of people. 

                  Maybe there's a way to do the entire thing using a computer shooting in the numbers as quickly as they can take them at the other end?  Otherwise I think it would be near impossible just to cover all the bases.  That phrase, "using a team of people working around the clock using modern technology to cover all the possible combinations," seems to imply something of the kind.  That was '92.  Maybe things have developed since then that would make it easier.

                  Jack

                  Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

                  It's about number behavior.

                  Egos don't count.

                   

                  Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

                   

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                    Greenwich, CT
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                    Posted: September 13, 2005, 1:40 pm - IP Logged

                    I changed my comparison from 350m:500m to 500m:750m...because it wouldn't make any sense to buy every ticket with a $350m jackpot!

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                      Greenwich, CT
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                      Posted: September 13, 2005, 1:56 pm - IP Logged

                      The bottleneck is printing the tickets...I wish I knew the exact amount of time it takes for a machine to spit out a five line ticket...let's say five seconds?  One line per second, and you're able to commandeer a machine for an entire four days (Friday to Tuesday)...although, are ticket sales allowed in the early morning hours?  But best case scenario, you can run numbers 24 hours a day...for nearly four days.

                      In four days, you would need around 520 continuously running terminals to print out all the tickets!  Add in breaks, fatigue, the need for possibly two people at each terminal...1,000 helping hands each taking home... $55,000 after taxes if they have the sole winning ticket?

                      Being more realistic, what if you have only 16 hours of ticket buying time in a day, and it's a Friday draw!  Then you would need 1,020 commandeered terminals!  2,000 helpers, each bringing home a couple thousand, woo woo.   

                      It could never happen, unless you could devise a program to just print all the tickets...but I doubt the lottery would ever allow such a thing, since that would be a guaranteed winner, and no more rollovers.

                      JAG 

                        RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
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                        Posted: September 13, 2005, 2:33 pm - IP Logged

                        Well guys, i do not believe a single word you all are saying...It is impossible...I believe that that australian guy both perhaps 100,000 and won the jackpot, but not more than 4 million...

                        michael brown

                        I thought I read in some of your earlier posts that you had researched the last 20 years of lotteries, you shouldn't have to believe any one if you've done that kind of work. 

                        That group was featured on a TV show at the time named "How They Do That".  They supposedly hired several bonded players, made out the tickets in advance and commandeered several Seven-Eleven store terminals and was able to cover 80% of the combinations and won.  Virgina as did other states after that came up with rules that limit the time one player or group can control a terminal. 

                        A few years ago, there was a group in Canada that came up with an interesting scheme that claimed they had come up with a list of 300,000 combinations that would cover the most likely combinations to be drawn in their 649 game and had run several successful pool which cost $10,000.00 to enter.  They offered a PDF file with all the details to anyone that was interested.  I don't know if they"re are still in business or not.

                        I can't offer any e-links to prove what I'm saying because I'm writing from memory.

                        RJOh 

                         * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                           
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                          Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
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                          Posted: September 13, 2005, 3:07 pm - IP Logged

                          The story about the VA Lottery being won in that manner is TRUE, and it caused them to create some laws after the fact that made it difficult or impossible to do again.

                          The funny part is that the VA Lottery probably made a lot of money on that stunt.  The reason lotteries don't like it, however, is that it makes it look like the game is rigged, and it will cause regular players to bail, because who wants to play a game, when some group is guaranteed to win?

                           

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                            Posted: September 13, 2005, 3:20 pm - IP Logged

                            Actually, an abbreviated version of something of that sort in a place like, say, Texas, for the MM draw when it gets high might, if legal, be something that could pay off in lower tier prizes with the multiplier.  One thing watching the MM challenge results history suggests is that some of the players can usually get 3-0 on 15 numbers and 5 MBs.  Maybe a consortium of players where someone had those skills could actually make a go of it using full wheels or abbreviated wheels on, say, 30 numbers, which would be an entirely smaller level of effort and investment.

                            Jack

                            Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

                            It's about number behavior.

                            Egos don't count.

                             

                            Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

                             

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                              Honduras
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                              Posted: September 13, 2005, 3:24 pm - IP Logged

                              Todd i agree with you when you said:

                              "and it will cause regular players to bail, because who wants to play a game, when some group is guaranteed to win?"

                              I am glad that they pass that legislation that would make it impossible to do again i wish all state did the same.....But guys if you think about it, notice when you are writing down your numbers...If you write down your numbers on the playslip too hard, the computer would not accept it and you will have to do it again...This is something one has to consider when playing lotto numbers...NOw imagine playing 1 million combinations????Still guys i don't believe it they did it..I think that they bought perhaps the most, 300,000 combinations but that's it...

                              michael brown