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stefan

Belgium
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August 31, 2003
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Aug 10, 2006, 8:05 pm
I've seen too many posts here that make the less intelligent players believe there's more money to be made with "straight hits" than with "boxed hits".
Let me put things "straight" here...
Pick 3 is a "straight" game : there are 1000 possible "straight" outcomes [000-999].
To win a pick 3 game, a player not only has to predict the 3 winning digits (1st condition), the order in which the digits are drawn matters as well (2nd condition). So unless a "triple" is expected to come up, a player has to "predict" 2 or 3 unique digits and the sequential order.

There's an easy way to get rid of that second condition. That method is called "boxed play".

As opposed to "straight play", "boxed play" means that we are no longer focussing on the order in which the digits are drawn. Instead, whenever we "predict" that a particular pick 3 combination might come up, we play that combination in any order.
- 6 way boxed : e.g. 123 = 123 132 213 231 312 321 ("unmatched" combos = 3 unique digits)
- 3 way boxed : e.g. 122 = 122 212 221 ("doubles" = 2 unique digits)
- 1 way boxed : e.g. 111 = 111 ("triples" = 1 unique digit = always straight)
Now please, prove me wrong...
If I would bet $6 on 1 "boxed unmatched combo", or $3 on 2 "boxed doubles" each, or $1 on 6 "triples" each, I would have played 6 "straights", a dollar each. Theoretically, without any bias in the game, each of the 3 bets have an equal chance to happen : 6/1000 or 0.6 percent. Each of the 3 bets would produce equal winnings in case of a hit :
- $6 boxed bet on "123". In case 123 is drawn (in any order), I would win $6 x $150 = $900
- $3 boxed bet on "122" and "133". In case any of these two configurations is drawn (in any order), I would win $3 x $300 = $900
- $1 straight bet on "111", "222", "333", "444", "555" and "666". In case any of these triples are drawn, I would win $1 x $900 = $900
"Playing boxed" is a lottery system. It is a way to get rid of that difficult task to predict the sequential order when we come up with the right digits. Playing "boxed" is also a great way to bet small amounts (1/6-th to 1/3-rd of 50 cents or a dollar) on 6 or 3 straights at the time (boxed unmatched or boxed doubles respectively).
The "potential amount of money you win" only depends on the amount of straights you place your bets on, and the amount of money you place on each "straight", whether you play them boxed or not. Surely, if one could accurately predict the sequential order of the next draw, that would be a great way to get rid of an astronomical amount of "straights" (some players are experimenting with my free tool to achieve exactly that - it would be nice if you could join them)
I hope this information was helpful for you !
Best regards,

Stefan
paurths

Switching between Fairfax, VA and Belgium
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Aug 10, 2006, 8:30 pm

"I've seen too many posts here that make the less intelligent players believe there's more money to be made with "straight hits" than with "boxed hits"."

I belong to the category of the less intelligent.
I always thought that if you have for example 25 6-ways you wanna play, and play them straight, when you hit you have $900 - $26 = $874
If i would play them in each format straight, or just 6 times boxed, then i would still win $900, but $900 - $150 = $750
cheers
Ricky
stefan

Belgium
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Aug 10, 2006, 8:42 pm

Ricky,
I am afraid you didn't read my post very clearly. I you did , I am sure you wouldn't have posted this reply.
Stefan
derek7

IL
United States
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March 4, 2006
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Aug 10, 2006, 8:49 pm

It gets more difficult when you have only $1-$5 to spend. :)
Also, spending 6 dollars on COMBO (unmatched) is not the same as spending 6 dollars on box (unmatched). COMBO is just few straights on one piece of papaer. Besides before I spend 6 USD on boxed ticket, it is really tempting to spend less and buy some other boxed tickets in addition.
Also when you play local P3 game, it pays less for 6 boxes. 6 x $80 = $480 (not $500 like for a straight)
/derek7
paurths

Switching between Fairfax, VA and Belgium
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Aug 10, 2006, 8:54 pm

Quote: Originally posted by stefan on Aug 10, 2006
Ricky,
I am afraid you didn't read my post very clearly. I you did , I am sure you wouldn't have posted this reply.
Stefan

lol That is most likely because i belong to that "less intelligent" group
stefan

Belgium
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August 31, 2003
107 Posts
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Aug 10, 2006, 9:03 pm

Quote: Originally posted by paurths on Aug 10, 2006
lol That is most likely because i belong to that "less intelligent" group

Did I start this post with " Hi Ricky" ? I don't know why you take this so personal, Ricky. I am just sharing my knowledge here. I don't care if you like or hate me, but please, if you disagree with me, explain PUBLICALLY why my post is not mathematically correct.
Best regards,
Stefan
Raven62

25

New Jersey
United States
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June 28, 2005
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Aug 10, 2006, 9:04 pm
Quote: Originally posted by stefan on Aug 10, 2006
I've seen too many posts here that make the less intelligent players believe there's more money to be made with "straight hits" than with "boxed hits".
Let me put things "straight" here...
Pick 3 is a "straight" game : there are 1000 possible "straight" outcomes [000-999].
To win a pick 3 game, a player not only has to predict the 3 winning digits (1st condition), the order in which the digits are drawn matters as well (2nd condition). So unless a "triple" is expected to come up, a player has to "predict" 2 or 3 unique digits and the sequential order.

There's an easy way to get rid of that second condition. That method is called "boxed play".

As opposed to "straight play", "boxed play" means that we are no longer focussing on the order in which the digits are drawn. Instead, whenever we "predict" that a particular pick 3 combination might come up, we play that combination in any order.
- 6 way boxed : e.g. 123 = 123 132 213 231 312 321 ("unmatched" combos = 3 unique digits)
- 3 way boxed : e.g. 122 = 122 212 221 ("doubles" = 2 unique digits)
- 1 way boxed : e.g. 111 = 111 ("triples" = 1 unique digit = always straight)
Now please, prove me wrong...
If I would bet $6 on 1 "boxed unmatched combo", or $3 on 2 "boxed doubles" each, or $1 on 6 "triples" each, I would have played 6 "straights", a dollar each. Theoretically, without any bias in the game, each of the 3 bets have an equal chance to happen : 6/1000 or 0.6 percent. Each of the 3 bets would produce equal winnings in case of a hit :
- $6 boxed bet on "123". In case 123 is drawn (in any order), I would win $6 x $150 = $900
- $3 boxed bet on "122" and "133". In case any of these two configurations is drawn (in any order), I would win $3 x $300 = $900
- $1 straight bet on "111", "222", "333", "444", "555" and "666". In case any of these triples are drawn, I would win $1 x $900 = $900
"Playing boxed" is a lottery system. It is a way to get rid of that difficult task to predict the sequential order when we come up with the right digits. Playing "boxed" is also a great way to bet small amounts (1/6-th to 1/3-rd of 50 cents or a dollar) on 6 or 3 straights at the time (boxed unmatched or boxed doubles respectively).
The "potential amount of money you win" only depends on the amount of straights you place your bets on, and the amount of money you place on each "straight", whether you play them boxed or not. Surely, if one could accurately predict the sequential order of the next draw, that would be a great way to get rid of an astronomical amount of "straights" (some players are experimenting with my free tool to achieve exactly that - it would be nice if you could join them)
I hope this information was helpful for you !
Best regards,

Stefan
If you are unfamiliar with the above Tool, you can find it here:

Pick3Stats Dot Com
paurths

Switching between Fairfax, VA and Belgium
Belgium
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Aug 11, 2006, 2:51 am

Quote: Originally posted by stefan on Aug 10, 2006
Did I start this post with " Hi Ricky" ? I don't know why you take this so personal, Ricky. I am just sharing my knowledge here. I don't care if you like or hate me, but please, if you disagree with me, explain PUBLICALLY why my post is not mathematically correct.
Best regards,
Stefan

Hi Stefan,
are you joking or something?
Where exactly did "hate" come in to the thread here?
You wrote

"I've seen too many posts here that make the less intelligent players believe there's more money to be made with "straight hits" than with "boxed hits".

Yes, i do believe that there is more money to be made with straight hits rather than with box hits.
So, consequently, i must be in that group that you call the "less intelligent players".
It's pretty basic, no?
If someone were to write "I've seen too many posts here that make the less intelligent players believe there's more money to be made with doubles than with 6-ways", then someone who believes this obviously belongs to that group, wouldn't you think?
Please don't shout, you can write "publically" just like this, it is fine too and i'm sure i nor anyone else would have missed that word.
Beats me, i thought i just "publically disagreed" with you earlier, i did that in my first post. lol
f one believes that for example digit 4 will hit the next draw, and this player plays normally all the boxed combo's he would be playing 55 numbers.
014, 024, 034, 045, 046, 047, 048, 049, 124, 134, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 234, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249, 345, 346, 347, 348, 349, 456, 457, 458, 459, 467, 468, 469, 478, 479, 489
004, 114, 224, 334, 044, 144, 244, 344, 445, 446, 447, 448, 449, 455, 466, 477, 488, 499
444
You say that there is no difference if this player would play these numbers X times their "way" to make sure he hits when digit 4 hits:
014, 024, 034, 045, 046, 047, 048, 049, 124, 134, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 234, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249, 345, 346, 347, 348, 349, 456, 457, 458, 459, 467, 468, 469, 478, 479, 489
004, 114, 224, 334, 044, 144, 244, 344, 445, 446, 447, 448, 449, 455, 466, 477, 488, 499
444'
014, 024, 034, 045, 046, 047, 048, 049, 124, 134, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 234, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249, 345, 346, 347, 348, 349, 456, 457, 458, 459, 467, 468, 469, 478, 479, 489
004, 114, 224, 334, 044, 144, 244, 344, 445, 446, 447, 448, 449, 455, 466, 477, 488, 499
014, 024, 034, 045, 046, 047, 048, 049, 124, 134, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 234, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249, 345, 346, 347, 348, 349, 456, 457, 458, 459, 467, 468, 469, 478, 479, 489
004, 114, 224, 334, 044, 144, 244, 344, 445, 446, 447, 448, 449, 455, 466, 477, 488, 499
014, 024, 034, 045, 046, 047, 048, 049, 124, 134, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 234, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249, 345, 346, 347, 348, 349, 456, 457, 458, 459, 467, 468, 469, 478, 479, 489
014, 024, 034, 045, 046, 047, 048, 049, 124, 134, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 234, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249, 345, 346, 347, 348, 349, 456, 457, 458, 459, 467, 468, 469, 478, 479, 489
014, 024, 034, 045, 046, 047, 048, 049, 124, 134, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 234, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249, 345, 346, 347, 348, 349, 456, 457, 458, 459, 467, 468, 469, 478, 479, 489
Sure, if digit 4 comes in, here is $900.
But i think that the straight player, if he hits the correct LMH-pattern will have won more.
Now, since i believe that, i belong, by definition, to that category of "less intelligent players".
cheers
Ricky
EXCALIBUR

United States
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October 7, 2003
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Aug 11, 2006, 5:20 am

Stefan, Hi!
Yes, Ricky is right, it was a little rude to say that, not that I haven't been rude myself more than just a few times.
Here on Texas if you win boxed you get $80 for a $1 ticket.
So 80 x 6 = $480
If you win straight yiu get $500.
So with 1 straight, you win $20 more than you would with playing 6 boxed combos.
Which of them is best for you to play? Whichever you can predict best at a particular time or for a particular draw.
The truth is that there is more money to be made with whichever you can predict right best and more often with.
For some people there is more money to be made with boxed and for others with straight.
Stefan I know that you meant well.
Ricky just made the logical connection, that therefore since etc.
He just made a logical statement, that is all.
We are still all friends, I hope.
We are all intelligent in our own ways.

EXCALIBUR is no more that "Handle" is dead, gone.
Maybe sometime in the future I might come back as LANTERN again, but maybe not, if I don't come back as LANTERN in the future then I won't come back at all, but as I said there is no more EXCALIBUR.
stefan

Belgium
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August 31, 2003
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Aug 11, 2006, 6:26 am

Hi Excalibur and Derek7,
Here in Belgium, pick 3 can't be played "boxed". So we have to do this "artificially" by playing 6 or 3 straights, depending on which type of combo (unmatched or doubles). Your point about Texas and Illinois Pick 3 is a good one, though. In that case, I wouldn't bet $6 on one boxed combo. I would prefer to place my bets the "artificial way".
In my first post, I made a point (you can win as much money with "boxed hits" as with "straight hits"...), that's all. Somebody took my statement about the "less intelligent players" personal. That's his problem, not mine. That same person even tries to tell me how I have to write certain WORDS in my post. Obviously, I don't like that, but I will try to ignore it.
Best regards,
Stefan
paurths

Switching between Fairfax, VA and Belgium
Belgium
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July 29, 2005
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Aug 11, 2006, 6:42 am

Hi,
uh? In Belgium pick3 can't be played boxed?
Perhaps it has changed recently then, i don't play it anymore here now that there 's betslips and such, but i recall winning some boxed here.
From the official website:
4 voorbeelden van 3 cijfers.
1) U kruist de cijfers 4, 2, 7 aan en het vakje "in wanorde". U zet 1 EUR in. De cijfers die worden getrokken zijn 4, 2, 7. Dan wint u 80 EUR!
2) U kruist de cijfers 4, 2, 7 aan en het vakje "de twee eerste". U zet 1 EUR in. De cijfers die worden getrokken zijn 4, 2, 3. Dan wint u 50 EUR!
3) U kruist de cijfers 4, 2, 7 aan en het vakje "in volgorde". U zet 1 EUR in. De cijfers die worden getrokken zijn 4, 2, 7. Dan wint u 500 EUR!
4) U kruist de cijfers 4, 2, 7 aan en het vakje "in volgorde" + "de laatste 2". U zet 2 EUR in. De cijfers die worden getrokken zijn 4, 2, 7. Dan wint u 500 EUR + 50 EUR!

I didn't take it personal (ask Carbob, Keith or Win D, i play straights online and sometimes back it up with a few box, just ask them what has come in this week alone lol), you just insulted a very large group of pick3 (and pick4) players, that's all. "Less intelligent", what nerve!!!
Writing in UPPER CASE on the internet is considered shouting, not polite, i thought you knew that. I hope you know it now.
If you want to bring the attention to a certain word, this works best if you put it in bold, even in a nice readable color, great. Heck, even underlining it works.
I still consider playing 30 numbers straight more profitable than playing those 30 numbers each way they come when you hit.
The problem is not when one hits, because then one makes a profit (the straight player will win more , that is simple mathematics), but when one does not win.
The straight player will have lost, for the example over 10 draws or so, $300, while the "boxed straight player" will have lost $1800.
Still the same to you?
cheers
Ricky
stefan

Belgium
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August 31, 2003
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Aug 11, 2006, 7:09 am

Ok,
My mistake. That happens when one prefers to play online. Boxed play is possible in Belgium.
Ricky,
Anyone considers playing 30 numbers straight more profitable than playing those 30 numbers each way they come when you hit. (How can it not be with such a condition ?) But the message in my first post was this... (notice that I added 6 straights as well)
If I would bet $6 on 1 "boxed unmatched combo", or $3 on 2 "boxed doubles" each, or $1 on 6 "triples" each, or $1 on any 6 straights, I would have played 6 "straights", a dollar each. Theoretically, without any bias in the game, each of the 4 bets have an equal chance to happen : 6/1000 or 0.6 percent.
Obviously, you are very talented by keeping the focus away from what I tried to explain in my post. (I hope you like that color)
Stefan
paurths

Switching between Fairfax, VA and Belgium
Belgium
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Aug 11, 2006, 7:20 am

"Such a condition"?
LOL I think you're the one who's taking it personal, it's not about what i like, it's about common "rules".
Everyone's a winner, isn't it... except for the box player, or the low budget player, considered to be less intelligent.
I have no desire to continue any discussion in this thread, no doubt that won't be considered a problem lol
cheers & good luck
Ricky
ps: doesn't this thread belong in the pick3 section, since it involves pick3? lol
Todd

50

Chief Bottle Washer

New Jersey
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Aug 11, 2006, 9:48 am

<Moved to Pick 3 forum>
WIN D

Stone Mountain*Georgia
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November 2, 2002
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Aug 11, 2006, 10:09 am

When I was a little fella..... little Win d many years ago.... my favorite thing was to chase and play with butterflies. Where I was brought up there was a particularly beautiful and colorfully patterned group of butterflies. They were my favorite.
One day I went to cross the road and saw a horrible thing. Two of my favorite butterflies were fighting and pulling each other down and both of them got stuck in the Tar on the road. I tried to help. That was a mistake. It would have been better to just leave it alone. Being a small child.....I made it worse ....a lot worse than it would have been on it's own.
Please .....just let this post float on down the stream.

The only real failure .....is the failure to try.

Luck is a very rare thing....... Odds not so much.

Odds never change .....but probability does.

Win d