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Math and Lotteries

Topic closed. 44 replies. Last post 10 years ago by Shane3.

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RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
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Posted: September 3, 2006, 9:00 pm - IP Logged

Seems like math has few applications for lotteries other than figuring odds or the number of possible combinations.  I keep coming back and hoping to read some posts about how math might help one discover such things as the most economical pool size for a lottery depending on its odds, calculations for finding the most repeatable patterns in past drawings and etc.  Instead I find only a few thread are still active due to a lack of interest.  I've got a feeling in a couple of more months there may be no active threads in this forum at all, I hope I'm wrong.

I keep trying to think of something interesting to write about or ask questions about and I can't.

 * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
   
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    Thoth's avatar - binary
    Findlay, Ohio
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    Posted: September 4, 2006, 11:42 pm - IP Logged

    Heres somethin for you to write about RJOh.......how about the mathematics of "states and dates" or "followers".....I would write about it myself but im feelin a little lazy (lol).  Seems to me that theres a huge following here on the subjects but I see no one showing any real mathematcal advantage to either of the concepts.

    ~Probability=Odds in Motion~

      RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
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      Posted: September 5, 2006, 1:50 am - IP Logged

      Sorry Thoth,

      I can't get a handle on what you're talking about. Relating "states and dates" or "followers" mathematically just doesn't compute in my mind.  I have used math to covert a Gregorian date to the day of the week for my lottery program, but that was to check if the date and day of the drawings agreed when viewing my lottery files.

      Explaining those "words" in mathematical terms might make it clearer to me.  It's been my experience that a theory or concept not worth explaining is not worth thinking about.

      RJOh

       * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
         
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        Thoth's avatar - binary
        Findlay, Ohio
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        Posted: September 5, 2006, 8:06 pm - IP Logged

        "States and Dates" is a concept that Pick 3/4 numbers will return at regular intervals based on the date(s) of its previous draws—i.e. one, two or three years apart etc.

        "Followers" are numbers that supposedly tend to follow one another.  For example, I've read posts where someone says that 089 is often followed by 586 - so play it, etc.

        I think any real study of either concept would show that there is no mathematical advantage to them.     

        ~Probability=Odds in Motion~

          truecritic's avatar - PirateTreasure
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          Posted: September 5, 2006, 8:44 pm - IP Logged

          Thoth

          I think RJ is mostly about Jackpot games.  Don't know if he is interested in Pick 3/4 (my apologies if I am wrong, RJ).   

          I also think you can add mirrors to the pick 3/4 myths.  (adding or subtracting 5 from a digit).  Like the mirror of 3 would be 8 and it is recommended that you play both.  I think any random number should come up just as often as a "mirror."

            RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
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            Posted: September 5, 2006, 8:47 pm - IP Logged

            Sorry again Thoth,

            I don't play the pick3/4 games so I don't bother with them, I'm only interested in pick5 and jackpot games.  There are plenty of other LP members who do play those games and have probably covered every theory and concept that anyone has ever come up with concerning those games.  Those games have been played the same way for years so I doubt if anyone is likely to come up with anything that hadn't been mentioned before.

            RJOh

             * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
               
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              guesser's avatar - Lottery-017.jpg

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              Posted: September 6, 2006, 2:03 am - IP Logged

              I don't think one can MATHAMATICALLY pick all 5 wb's, I think the best anyone can ever do is get 3 of the 5 (at BEST) and be able to chalk it up to 'math' and probability theories.

               

              I have a pool of what I consider 'decent' numbers based on several things, and I consistently get 3, seldom 4, usually in different games (I play 10 games per drawing night), only a few times have I had all 5 - in different games, of course.  I have been tracking trends very closely since January, and there is ALWAYS at least 1 number, if not 2 numbers,  that come from nowhere to hit, so I just adjust to pick 3 'solid' choices, and pretty much pull 2 numbers out of thin air now.

               

              I am no worse off than I was before. 

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                NASHVILLE, TENN
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                Posted: September 8, 2006, 12:53 am - IP Logged

                If by mathmatics one means that one can add, subtract, divide, or mulitply their way to winning consistently, then I agree that no one can MATHMATICALLY pick off 5 winning numbers.  If there were an equation which would produce such a win, someone much smarter, much more handsome, and much more insane than I would have discovered it.

                However, if we could reduce the lotto numbers as drawn to two or more patterns and then find a way to add those patterns.......no, that won't work.

                What if we were to find, say, 10 patterns.  Could we then track these patterns and, after gathering much data, discover an equation which would predict the next pattern?  No, that's bad, too.

                Oh, heck!  I give up.  I'm going back to mystical.

                  time*treat's avatar - radar

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                  Posted: September 13, 2006, 8:07 pm - IP Logged

                  Ideas based on math are 1) harder to describe, and 2) more closely scrutinized by others.

                  If you say "I dreamed I was playing twister(r) with each foot on a green and 1 hand on red, and doubles fell" people will just accept that. No one will demand to know what to play when you dream of monopoly(r) owning a hotel on baltic ave, and two railroads.

                  OTOH, if you say "I have a formula that uses yesterday's number multiplied by pi, phi, or e, plus or minus one, (and divided by one of the other two) depending on the day.", you will get far more challenges on the matter. Someone will backtest it just to show you how often it didn't work.

                  So, most folks will post where there is less "proof" to present.

                  In neo-conned Amerika, bank robs you.
                  Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be the name of a convenience store, not a govnoment agency.

                    RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
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                    Posted: September 14, 2006, 4:56 pm - IP Logged

                    I don't think ideas supported with math/statistical data are harder to describe but they can be more easily scrutinized so they may require a little more thought by their posters. 

                    Some posters enjoy posting ideas off the top of their heads and suggesting others try them to
                    see what happens which works fine for games like pick3 since the odds of getting a hit are
                    better than those of other lottery games and the ideas are usually within most players budget.
                    Many find these types of posts entertaining and enjoyable to read and will post a note of
                    "thanks for sharing". 

                    With pick5 and jackpots games the odds of getting a hit aren't that great so most ideas
                    mentioned even when supported with statistical/math data are not practical for the regular
                    lottery player.  If I said for example while playing the Ohio Rolling Cash5 I noticed in the
                    last 500 drawings that had I played combinations using only the numbers from the previous
                    three drawings I could have matched 5/5 three times, 4/5 sixteen times,3/5 eighty times and
                    matched 2/5 over 190 times and collected  over $301,000.00 at a cost of app. $150,000.00, it
                    would be easy to verify using paper and pencil in a couple of hours or in a couple of minutes
                    with the right software.  That idea however is not practical because it takes lots of money and
                    discipline to execute and lottery players are looking for an easy and cheap idea to win big
                    and quick.

                     * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                       
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                      time*treat's avatar - radar

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                      Posted: September 14, 2006, 5:38 pm - IP Logged

                      I should have specified p3/p4 etc. Those games lend themselves more to what I'll call "whim" type ideas. Yep, the main obstacles in p5/p6 games seem to be good filters or big bankrolls.

                      In neo-conned Amerika, bank robs you.
                      Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be the name of a convenience store, not a govnoment agency.

                        RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
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                        Posted: September 14, 2006, 6:05 pm - IP Logged

                        I prefer to pick combinations within preset parameters.  Usually after about 1,700 randoms picks and parameter rejects I have 20-50 lines with a good mix of numbers to play and it's faster and easier than trying to filter out 20-50 lines from all the possible combinations.

                         * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                           
                                     Evil Looking       

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                          NASHVILLE, TENN
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                          Posted: September 18, 2006, 11:56 pm - IP Logged

                          Seems like math has few applications for lotteries other than figuring odds or the number of possible combinations.  I keep coming back and hoping to read some posts about how math might help one discover such things as the most economical pool size for a lottery depending on its odds, calculations for finding the most repeatable patterns in past drawings and etc.  Instead I find only a few thread are still active due to a lack of interest.  I've got a feeling in a couple of more months there may be no active threads in this forum at all, I hope I'm wrong.

                          I keep trying to think of something interesting to write about or ask questions about and I can't.

                          I have been mulling this thread over and over ever since you published it, RJOH.  I have arrived at a conclusion I am sure no one else will agree with or take a share in. 

                           I do not feel that mathematics as we know it today will suffice to describe the lottory.  There is just too much randomness.  The best mathematics can do is tell us the probability of all possible outcomes.

                          The answer, therefore, resides in inventing a whole new branch of mathematics.  Gone are the plus, minus, multiply and divide signs of the old math.  Let enter new symbols, new meanings, and new operatons.

                          The only problem I have is a starting point.  LOL.

                            Thoth's avatar - binary
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                            Posted: September 19, 2006, 1:50 am - IP Logged

                            I have been mulling this thread over and over ever since you published it, RJOH.  I have arrived at a conclusion I am sure no one else will agree with or take a share in. 

                             I do not feel that mathematics as we know it today will suffice to describe the lottory.  There is just too much randomness.  The best mathematics can do is tell us the probability of all possible outcomes.

                            The answer, therefore, resides in inventing a whole new branch of mathematics.  Gone are the plus, minus, multiply and divide signs of the old math.  Let enter new symbols, new meanings, and new operatons.

                            The only problem I have is a starting point.  LOL.

                            Thats is an interesting idea gasmeterguy.  The two branches of mathematics that are most commonly tied to lotteries are probability and combinatorics.  I feel that when one understands how both of these branches are interconnected he can truly see just how the flow of randomness really operates.  Its funny how the big picture is already taken well in advance of the future: the percentages of what can, what will, and what does happen are all known prior to any long series of upcoming draws—and all of this occurs within a very close tolerance.  The only real problem is knowing exactly when certain events will occur or in what order they will occur in!

                            Inventing a whole new branch of mathematics that deals with the "flow of randomness" would be a mind boggeling endevor.  After all, how can randomness be defined from a mathematical perspective in the first place?  This would entail bringing order, or a reason/cause for an order, to a set of past events or even future events which have not yet occured.  Any ideas anyone???

                            ~Probability=Odds in Motion~

                              time*treat's avatar - radar

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                              Posted: September 19, 2006, 3:13 am - IP Logged

                              Jester Well, in our "modern" era, the place to start is with a registered trademark name, a logo, and some VC or other backers. And don't forget the IPO. Then you work on the actual math.

                              In neo-conned Amerika, bank robs you.
                              Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be the name of a convenience store, not a govnoment agency.