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Ridiculously low non-jackpot prize payouts have me fed up

Topic closed. 22 replies. Last post 10 years ago by KY Floyd.

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United States
Member #35591
March 20, 2006
18 Posts
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 Posted: October 19, 2006, 5:57 pm - IP Logged

Has there been any organized pressure against MM (or PB) to give some more respectible non-jackpot prize payouts?  MM's 4+0 pre-tax payout is less than 1% of the odds.

So this gets me thinking...

If MM intends to keep my interest in their game, they must increase the non-jackpot prize payouts to a minimum 10% of the odds.

The current odds, payouts (where applicable) and percentage of payout
are as follows:

5+1  1:175,711,536.00  \$JACKPOT
5+0  1:  3,904,700.80  \$250,000  6.40%
4+1  1:    689,064.85  \$ 10,000  1.45%
4+0  1:    15,312.55  \$    150  0.98%
3+1  1:    13,781.30  \$    150  1.09%
3+0  1:      306.25  \$      7  2.29%
2+1  1:      843.75  \$    10  1.19%
2+0  1:        18.75  \$      -      -
1+1  1:      140.63  \$      3  2.13%
1+0  1:        3.13  \$      -      -
0+1  1:        74.80  \$      2  2.67%
0+0  1:        1.66  \$      -      -

Who comes up with these payout percentages?  They are all over the place.

What is the higher priority, advertising big annuity values or increasing non-jackpot prizes to generate more ticket sales?

Answer:  They both serve to increase ticket sales.  But how to achieve both goals?

In order to increase non-jackpot prize payout AND still get large annuity values, I recommend changing the matrix from 56c5+46 to 56c5+56.  One play should remain one dollar.

The resulting odds and recommended 10% payouts (rounded down to the nearest dollar) are as follows:

5+1  1:213,909,696.00  \$JACKPOT
5+0  1:  3,889,267.20  \$388,926
4+1  1:    838,861.55  \$ 83,886
4+0  1:    15,252.03  \$  1,525
3+1  1:    16,777.23  \$  1,677
3+0  1:      305.04  \$    30
2+1  1:      1,027.18  \$    102
2+0  1:        18.68  \$      1
1+1  1:      171.20  \$    17
1+0  1:        3.11  \$      -
0+1  1:        91.06  \$      9
0+0  1:        1.66  \$      -

Extrapolating the number of current winners versus the projected number of winners with a matrix change, I am confident the jackpot annuity value will not reduce from one drawing to the next if there is a significant non-jackpot prize payout.

Advertising that all the non-jackpot prize payouts are increased across the board, one by more than 10x (see MM 4+0), will only serve to increase interest in the game, thus generating the ticket sales the states now depend on for revenue.

This is fair to both the player and the state.  A win-win situation.

The jackpot is just a dream.  It might happen but not likely.  The non-jackpot prizes do hit but the payout is embarrassing.

My state's lottery machines play "We're in the money!" when it scans a winner.  I am almost embarrassed to hand over my MM ticket and get \$2 back.  This is expecially true when it takes 40 plays just to win anything.  (Overall odds of winning are 1:40.)

The alternative to poor payouts is to start playing the daily.  The daily pays out 50%.  Yes, the jackpot will never happen, but odds are, I will win more in a lifetime.

United States
Member #41383
June 16, 2006
1969 Posts
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 Posted: October 19, 2006, 6:29 pm - IP Logged

I'd settle for PB knocking the red ball down from 42 numbers to 10 numbers.

Or, doing that and going back to 49 WB's.........

Honduras
Member #20982
August 29, 2005
4715 Posts
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 Posted: October 19, 2006, 7:00 pm - IP Logged

you nailed it: m3g4m1ll10ns..Couple of months ago i was checking exactly that and i had the same question as you (don't know why i didn't post them, but thanks you did)...I was asking myself the same question who comes out with those percentages?It just means that they (the lottery) are better prepared than a bank (banks have to involve themselves with interest rates and percentages)...I was asking myself the same question....I stumble upon that when i was trying to figure out better payouts for better lotteries in other countries...

m3g4m1ll10ns  I have been saying that that the current payouts of non-jackpots are embarrasment, specifically the 5/6 and 4/5 payouts...INf fact i posted it here like a month 2 months ago...

but i disagree with you about increasing the matrix to pick5+ 1-56...What the range of the bonus ball does it tell how much suction the game has, the large the range of the bonus ball the more suction the game will have...

There is so many ways the lottery can have different configurations...

"Laura Simpson from Great Lakes, Illinois, deserves to be rich..."        "She is so rare..."

California
United States
Member #46824
October 1, 2006
270 Posts
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 Posted: October 19, 2006, 7:23 pm - IP Logged

What is the higher priority, advertising big annuity values or increasing non-jackpot prizes to generate more ticket sales?

If you asked the Lottery officals this question my thought is they would say advertising big annuity jackpot values.  Look at how sales exponentially increase when the jackpot hits over \$150 million.

The casual lottery player, and there are many more of them then there are regular players, chase the big jackpots.  They don't focus on the lesser amounts, particularly anything below \$100.  What drives ticket sales is large jackpots, not paying out more in lower non-jackpot prizes.

United States
Member #41383
June 16, 2006
1969 Posts
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 Posted: October 19, 2006, 7:44 pm - IP Logged

Big numbers = Big sales.

getting 3x5 is just something to whet someones' appetite to keep coming back........

Morrison, IL
United States
Member #4657
May 13, 2004
1884 Posts
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 Posted: October 19, 2006, 7:52 pm - IP Logged

Yes, that is the reality of the big jackpot games. Powerball and Mega Millions are simply set up to offer huge top prizes at the expense of the lower-tier prizes.   That's just the way it is.

United States
Member #119
February 19, 2002
527 Posts
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 Posted: October 19, 2006, 10:12 pm - IP Logged

What is the higher priority, advertising big annuity values or increasing non-jackpot prizes to generate more ticket sales?

If you asked the Lottery officals this question my thought is they would say advertising big annuity jackpot values.  Look at how sales exponentially increase when the jackpot hits over \$150 million.

The casual lottery player, and there are many more of them then there are regular players, chase the big jackpots.  They don't focus on the lesser amounts, particularly anything below \$100.  What drives ticket sales is large jackpots, not paying out more in lower non-jackpot prizes.

Let me make several points which some of you might have heard me make before:

1) Expanding the number pool beyond 55 or the bonus number pool is not necessary to make this game more attractive and renumerative.  In fact, lowering the number pool would do so!

2) Greed drives this game: the greed of the states who profit and the desire by players to be enriched by zillions which is not necessarily greed, but it blinds most to how ridiculous the odds are.

3) Large number field games defy most strategies and when they don't that is an exception, a rare one at that and the originators/"rulers" of this game know that.

4) The only way to change MegaRip (or PowerRip) is simply not to play.  If every LP member/reader boycotted this game for 30 days and each had 20 friends do the same, and it got publicized in newspapers such as the NY Times or Wall St. Journal as a feature story, you might see change.

In other words, economically NONcooperate with that which is unfair/unjust.  Until then, we the players (people!) will have no power to effect change.  Greedy people mostly do not listen to "reason".  But some are forced to negotiate when their profits rapidly decline.

In short:

a- Refuse to play

b- Publicize organized refusals and educate all lottery players as to why and how

c- Hold firm!

United States
Member #1826
July 11, 2003
2645 Posts
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 Posted: October 19, 2006, 10:24 pm - IP Logged

Those kind of payouts would bankrupt the lotteries. When you have that many prize divisions, chances are one of the prizes are going to be pretty small in comparison to the odds. And if you don't like it, don't play, simple as that.

(insert signature here)

United States
Member #2338
September 17, 2003
2063 Posts
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 Posted: October 19, 2006, 11:34 pm - IP Logged

When are people going to realize that people don't play for the smaller prizes. Large jackpots equal more sales. It's a fact. Yes smaller prizes are more likely to be won but if you like smaller prizes then play \$5 straight on one number in pick 4. Odds would be better and the prize a not bad \$25k. The only reason not to do that is you are playing for the larger jackpot.

The problem with Mega has been a small jackpots compared to it's odds. This problem is far worse than whatever it's been paying out at lower tier prizes. I'm sure they could add a powerplay type option for lower tier prizes but I would prefer another shot at the jackpot.

CA
United States
Member #2987
December 10, 2003
832 Posts
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 Posted: October 20, 2006, 4:04 am - IP Logged

[quote]
If MM intends to keep my interest in their game, they must increase the non-jackpot prize payouts to a minimum 10% of the odds.

The current odds, payouts (where applicable) and percentage of payout
are as follows:

5+1 1:175,711,536.00 \$JACKPOT
5+0 1: 3,904,700.80 \$250,000 6.40%
4+1 1: 689,064.85 \$ 10,000 1.45%
4+0 1: 15,312.55 \$ 150 0.98%
3+1 1: 13,781.30 \$ 150 1.09%
3+0 1: 306.25 \$ 7 2.29%
2+1 1: 843.75 \$ 10 1.19%
2+0 1: 18.75 \$ - -
1+1 1: 140.63 \$ 3 2.13%
1+0 1: 3.13 \$ - -
0+1 1: 74.80 \$ 2 2.67%
0+0 1: 1.66 \$ - -

Who comes up with these payout percentages? They are all over the place.
[/quote]

I might be one of the guilty parties when it comes to payout percentages - they're rampant on my website.

[quote]
5+1 1:213,909,696.00 \$JACKPOT
5+0 1: 3,889,267.20 \$388,926
4+1 1: 838,861.55 \$ 83,886
4+0 1: 15,252.03 \$ 1,525
3+1 1: 16,777.23 \$ 1,677
3+0 1: 305.04 \$ 30
2+1 1: 1,027.18 \$ 102
2+0 1: 18.68 \$ 1
1+1 1: 171.20 \$ 17
1+0 1: 3.11 \$ -
0+1 1: 91.06 \$ 9
0+0 1: 1.66 \$ -
[/quote]

These proposed payouts yield a payout percentage of 84.93% - without the jackpot. That's far above and beyond the payout percentage of any government-owned lottery in existence. Factor in admin, operating and advertising costs and that lottery runs at a loss - not the intention of any lottery.

Blessed Saint Leibowitz, keep 'em dreamin' down there.....

Next week's convention for Psychics and Prognosticators has been cancelled due to unforeseen circumstances.

=^.^=

New Member

United States
Member #35591
March 20, 2006
18 Posts
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 Posted: October 20, 2006, 5:22 am - IP Logged

"I might be one of the guilty parties when it comes to payout percentages - they're rampant on my website."

Why mention YOUR website?  What's the point?  Are you selling something?  If so, I'll never buy it with math like yours.

"These proposed payouts yield a payout percentage of 84.93% - without the jackpot."

Huh?  The proposed non-jackpot payouts are exactly 10%.  Only 1 in 305 plays will yield a 3+0 ticket.  The current payout is \$7.  The proposal is to payout \$30 for every 305 plays.  Each tier is it's own level, independent of the others.

The real disgust people should feel is getting a 3+1 or a 4+0 (lowest payout to percentage ratio) and getting \$150 for odds at 1:13,781 and 1:15,313, respectively.

MM knows only 1 person hits a 3+1 for every 13,781 plays.  Please tell me why they can't afford to pay out \$1,378.

CA
United States
Member #2987
December 10, 2003
832 Posts
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 Posted: October 20, 2006, 5:32 am - IP Logged

"I might be one of the guilty parties when it comes to payout percentages - they're rampant on my website."

Why mention YOUR website?  What's the point?  Are you selling something?  If so, I'll never buy it with math like yours.

"These proposed payouts yield a payout percentage of 84.93% - without the jackpot."

Huh?  The proposed non-jackpot payouts are exactly 10%.  Only 1 in 305 plays will yield a 3+0 ticket.  The current payout is \$7.  The proposal is to payout \$30 for every 305 plays.  Each tier is it's own level, independent of the others.

The real disgust people should feel is getting a 3+1 or a 4+0 (lowest payout to percentage ratio) and getting \$150 for odds at 1:13,781 and 1:15,313, respectively.

MM knows only 1 person hits a 3+1 for every 13,781 plays.  Please tell me why they can't afford to pay out \$1,378.

No, I'm not selling anything. Never have, never will.

The payout percentages for each possible outcome of a lottery are cumulative toward the overall payout percentage for that lottery. If you have eight outcomes paying out 10% each, the overall payout percentage for that lottery will be 80%.

gl

j

Blessed Saint Leibowitz, keep 'em dreamin' down there.....

Next week's convention for Psychics and Prognosticators has been cancelled due to unforeseen circumstances.

=^.^=

New Member

United States
Member #35591
March 20, 2006
18 Posts
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 Posted: October 20, 2006, 5:34 am - IP Logged

No.  It doesn't work that way.

CA
United States
Member #2987
December 10, 2003
832 Posts
Offline
 Posted: October 20, 2006, 9:57 am - IP Logged
 2 Fields - Draw 5+1 Hit Possibilities Odds - 1:: Bet Prize Total Percentage 56 5+1 1 213909696.00 1 0 0 0.00 56 5 55 3889267.20 388926 21390930 10.00 4+1 255 838861.55 83886 21390930 10.00 4 14025 15252.03 1525 21388125 10.00 3+1 12750 16777.23 1677 21381750 10.00 3 701250 305.04 30 21037500 9.83 2+1 208250 1027.18 102 21241500 9.93 2 11453750 18.68 1 11453750 5.35 1+1 1249500 171.20 17 21241500 9.93 1 68722500 3.11 0 0 0.00 0+1 2349060 91.06 9 21141540 9.88 0 129198300 1.66 0 0 0.00 213909696 1.00 181667525 84.93

gl

j

Blessed Saint Leibowitz, keep 'em dreamin' down there.....

Next week's convention for Psychics and Prognosticators has been cancelled due to unforeseen circumstances.

=^.^=

Honduras
Member #20982
August 29, 2005
4715 Posts
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 Posted: October 20, 2006, 10:28 am - IP Logged

This is something to think about: I posted this couple of months ago (which is what's below): I don't know if it works the way i think it works i dont' know but if it does work the way i think it works what i said below is something the lottery corporation should think about: http://www.lotterypost.com/thread/139635/660180?q=pumpi76

I just thought about something...This is how i think this work....If you notice, every lottery retailer gas station that sells lottery tickets have a RnG if i am not mistaken called quick pick...The computer selects combinations from 1 to 150 something million randomly, but it doesn't select the same combination twice, unless it has gone through all the 150 something million total combinations that Powerball has...Now if i am reading all this correct is not like having 1 store with the computer selecting quick pick for people from 1 to 150 million combinations, but instead is like having thousand of stores with it...And the computer has to count from 1 to 150 million combinations, in EACH STORE..That TIMES the number of total stores each states has that sells Powerball, Times the total amount of state where Powerball is played....And the thing is that in each store the computer doesn't go through the 150 million combinations because in 1 store the total amount of players for 3 days doesn't equal 150 million [All this assuming that the majority of players play quick picks]..I don't think it even totals 1 million for 1 store, [and remember for it to be 1 winner it has to go through all the 150 million combinations in that particular store]....So theoretically, if all the combinations are played every draw, the lottery corporation reaps/rakes 149 million except the 1 winning combinations TIMES the total amount of stores they have that play Powerball in the entire country....So if there are let's say 40,000 total stores in the country, you multiply it times 149 million....40,000 X 149 million = a big number...

I don't know if some of you would understand the way i think i do....
and then you are talking about increasing the matrix of Powerball? my gosh...Those that win are really LUCKY...
What I am trying to say is that theoretically, the state has the potential to Rake more profit, astronomical profits...And if they want to make more money they don't have to increase the matrix, just attract more players....All this because the lottery computer machine doesn't go through all 150 million combinations.....
All that is different than having 1 store selling lottery and letting 150 million people play quick pick, which will guaranteed 1 winner but because there are thousand of stores and not all players go through all the combinations, but the state has the potential rake in millions in astronomical figures ...
Someone please tell me that that's not the way it works....
Let me elaborate a little bit more..I said: "And if they want to make more money they don't have to increase the matrix, just attract more players"
If they want to increase the money been awarded, they can just go ahead and do it, they don't have to increase the matrix...they will still profit....But what i think the state does is that the money been awarded in the lottery is correspondent (proportional) to a certain percentage of total amount of odds the particular game offers...This is how i think they figure how how much money they are going to give out...

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