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Random Generation of Quickpicks

Topic closed. 22 replies. Last post 10 years ago by justxploring.

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justxploring's avatar - villiarna
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Posted: January 19, 2007, 12:05 pm - IP Logged

I realize we've had many threads where we discuss quick picks vs personal numbers.  This time I just want to talk about how they are chosen.

Recently another member quoted a state web site explaining that there is "no central computer" generating the numbers.  Maybe it was for a raffle game, but suddenly this brought up some new questions.

When I check the numbers and read the press releases on the FL site, just about every day someone in Miami hit the Fantasy 5.  Even when there are 5 winners, 2 of them will be from the Miami area.  This is another topic we've discussed and Coin Toss said the same is true for Chicago.  I realize the population of a large city has a lot to do with the amount of tickets purchased, which obviously has an effect on the percentage of winners from that area.

However, in the past I always thought a central computer (at Florida Lottery Headquarters) picked the numbers and the store terminals were only printing them. If an individual store terminal picks the numbers based on previous picks and other factors, wouldn't it make sense to go to a store where there are a lot of players? Is it using data from that store only or from the entire state? Would a small Mom & Pop store in East Podunk that prints a total of 50 tickets a week have a lesser chance of printing out a winner?  Is this why I see so many people in certain parts of Miami hitting, or are they simply spending their entire paychecks on the lottery? I guess I'm not quite sure what data is being used to generate the quick pick numbers.

Just some ideas that popped up in my head today.  Unless you choose your own numbers, then obviously being in the right place at the right time is everything when it comes to buying lottery tickets. However, is there a "right" place that is better than another?

    Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
    Zeta Reticuli Star System
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    Posted: January 19, 2007, 12:28 pm - IP Logged

     Not only are most Illinois winning tickets QP's in the Chicago area but an inrodinate amounf of them are sold at a chain called The white Hen Pantry (sold last year to 7-11).

     I know there are a lot of white Hen stores, but I get an e-mail with a list of winners every night and for all the other stores such as Schnuck's and Kroger (rare they sell a winner, maybe 2 a year) there sure seem to be a lot from White Hens.

    Maybe a white hen is a luck sign somewhere or something! 

    Re: the lottery terminals producing quick picks, I read somewhere (maybe here on LP) that each machine is assigned a certain "block" of numbers - I'm not sure that's true as the Missouri lottery sent out a question / answer about quick picks that it is possible for two people to hit a jackpot on the same quick pick given out in two different stores.

    Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

    Lep

    There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

      Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
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      Posted: January 19, 2007, 1:37 pm - IP Logged

      This question -- about where the Quick Pick numbers are generated -- comes up almost as often as the cash vs. annuity debate.

      I remember posting about this several times, so I went ahead and did a full search by broadening the date range to include all history. Sure enough, I located one such discussion way back in 2002 (I'm sure there are several since then):

      http://www.lotterypost.com/thread/64353

       

      Check the State Lottery Report Card
      What grade did your lottery earn?

       

      Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
      Help eliminate computerized drawings!

        justxploring's avatar - villiarna
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        Posted: January 19, 2007, 4:58 pm - IP Logged

        Thanks, Todd.  I'll check out the link. I tried to search for a common thread before I posted.  As Coin Toss wrote, the amount of QPs that hit at somes stores and in some cities makes a person wonder. Now that I am reading the above thread, I do recall some others on this subject when I first joined because of the "algorithm" it discusses. (I'm still not certain what "previous activity" is based upon.)

          truecritic's avatar - PirateTreasure
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          Posted: January 19, 2007, 5:56 pm - IP Logged

          "This question -- about where the Quick Pick numbers are generated -- comes up almost as often as the cash vs. annuity debate."

          Is anyone prepared to say that the quick picks are chosen from the store terminals for ALL State lotteries?  Do all lotteries release information about how many quick picks win from each terminal?  Naturally, I am more interested in knowing what Michigan does but am interested in all the States as well.

            Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
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            Posted: January 19, 2007, 6:24 pm - IP Logged

            "This question -- about where the Quick Pick numbers are generated -- comes up almost as often as the cash vs. annuity debate."

            Is anyone prepared to say that the quick picks are chosen from the store terminals for ALL State lotteries?  Do all lotteries release information about how many quick picks win from each terminal?  Naturally, I am more interested in knowing what Michigan does but am interested in all the States as well.

            The last time I checked into this subject, both GTECH machines and Scientific Games machines generated Quick Picks at the terminal.  Unless you know of a state that uses something else, I'd say it's a reasonable assumption that they all do.

            There are very few games were the numbers get generated on the mainframe.  Raffle games are the best examples I can think of.

            BY the way T.C, I had not noticed that.

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              Posted: January 19, 2007, 11:54 pm - IP Logged

              I have heard that in Illinois, each machine can be calibrated.  I dont know if this is true but it may explain why some stores have more winning quick pics than other stores.

                Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
                Zeta Reticuli Star System
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                Posted: January 20, 2007, 1:59 am - IP Logged

                Speaking of quick picks and the White Hen:

                 LITTLE LOTTO PRIZE PAYOUTS FOR FRIDAY, JANUARY 19, 2007
                 
                 
                 WINNING NUMBERS: 03 - 11 - 22 - 23 - 37
                 
                 
                 PLAYER(S) MATCHING 5 OF 5 NUMBERS
                    INCLUDING SUBSCRIPTION WINNERS:        2
                 EACH PLAYER WILL RECEIVE:        $195,000.00
                 
                      WINNING TICKET(S) WERE SOLD AT:
                 
                      600473    COMMERCE SHELL FST N FRS    (QP)
                            1801 S VETERANS
                            BLOOMINGTON/61701
                 
                      199539    WHITE HEN PANTRY #7319      (QP)
                            1512 SHERMER RD
                            NORTHBROOK/60062
                 

                Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

                Lep

                There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

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                  Posted: January 20, 2007, 2:23 am - IP Logged

                  AFAIK, all of the states say that quick picks are generated randomly. If they're generated randomly it doesn't matter whether they're all generated on a single central computer or if a separate compute is used for every single ticket. Random is random. It may not be 100.000% random, but there isn't any "data" being used to generate QP's, and they're very close to 100% random. Unless the lottery is lying to you. 

                  As far as where winners come from, would anyone be surprised that so many of them come from major population centers? Isn't that where the people are?  Check the data from any state that offers a breakdown of the games, or just pay attention to the results and  you'll find that things are pretty consistent from state to state. More people = more sales = more payouts. The reason a small Mom & Pop store in East Podunk that sells only 50 tickets isn't likely to have a winner is because they only sold 50 tickets. A store that sells 500 tickets is 10 times more likely to sell a winner. Now figure that there are only 2 stores in East Podunk, and  10,000 stores in the population centers. Why are there so many more stores inthe population centers? Because there are so many people.

                  If you think the lottery is engaged in some kind of conspiracy you're only reasonable choices are to become part of the conspiracy or stop buying tickets. If QP's are generated randomly an the winning numbers are drawn randomly, then it doesn't matter where you buy your tickets. Buying at a store that sells 100 times as many tickets as another store makes it 100 times more likely that you'll have bought your ticket from the store that sold the winning ticket, but it does nothing to increase yoru chances of  having the winning ticket. You don't win for buying from a store that sells a winning ticket, you win for buying the winning ticket.

                  As far as a particular chain selling more winners than another chain, it's about the some as  the geographic areas that sell winners.Most people probably find themselves in a convenience store a lot more often than in a supermarket, so that would easily explain White hen selling more winners than Kroger's, even if they both have the same number of stores. More likely, White Hen has several times as many stores as Kroger's.  That's certainly the case for  chain convenience stores and chain supermarkets any place I've been.

                    ayenowitall's avatar - rod serling4.jpg

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                    Posted: January 20, 2007, 2:27 am - IP Logged

                    If there's no interface between the actual draw mechanism and the QP generators, does it really matter where QPs are generated or purchased? I think not.

                      justxploring's avatar - villiarna
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                      Posted: January 20, 2007, 5:15 am - IP Logged

                      "If you think the lottery is engaged in some kind of conspiracy you're only reasonable choices are to become part of the conspiracy or stop buying tickets."  KY Floyd

                      Conspiracy? Where did I speak of a conspiracy??  In over 1,300 posts I don't think I ever said I thought there was some big conspiracy or that the lottery was fixed.  Please don't confuse me with other posters or (as they say on Law & Order) assume things not in evidence.

                      I was simply asking a question about the generation of quick picks at the store terminals vs a central computer or computers for the state.  I always thought this board was to raise subjects for discussion that might be of interest.  I totally agree that the population has something to do with the amount of tickets being won in an area.  Didn't I say that when I wrote:  "I realize the population of a large city has a lot to do with the amount of tickets purchased, which obviously has an effect on the percentage of winners from that area." However, some cities (like Miami) seem to have an inordinate amount of winners. 

                      Anyway, vt8366a mentioned the calibration of the terminals.  That's interesting. 

                        BaristaExpress's avatar - BaristaExpressMX zpsfb0d8b5d.png
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                        Posted: January 20, 2007, 9:17 am - IP Logged

                        This question -- about where the Quick Pick numbers are generated -- comes up almost as often as the cash vs. annuity debate.

                        I remember posting about this several times, so I went ahead and did a full search by broadening the date range to include all history. Sure enough, I located one such discussion way back in 2002 (I'm sure there are several since then):

                        http://www.lotterypost.com/thread/64353

                        Todd, my question to you is? Instead of signing a petition to eliminate computerized drawings, why not go on the legality of the game being rigged? What I mean is this: if any game of any type is seeded then it's rigged! Below is a quote from that past posting in that thread above.

                        This is actually a pretty technical subject.  Basically speaking, in the world of computers, there is no way possible to create a truly random number.  Computers are built to be precise machines, and randomness is the exact opposite.

                        So in order to generate a "random" number, the computer is programmed to start with a particular number (called the "seed" number), and then perform a whole bunch of mathematical calculations, such that the resultant number appears to be random.  However, if you were to perform enough of these "randomizer" calculations on that number, you would begin to see a pattern develop.  That's because like I said above, computers are very precise machines and cannot truly generate random numbers.

                        To minimize the effects of this pattern effect, the lottery machines (and any good random number generator) will keep changing the seed number so that there are so many "random patterns" in play that it is mathematically insignificant.  That's what the MN lottery means in the quote above.

                        Good luck!
                        -Todd

                         

                        With that said, why would we just sign a petition to eliminate computerized drawings? Why not go on the legal stand point that the game has been seeded/rigged! Any game that has a predetermined out come is considered rigged! That's just like you or me if we were good enough to manipulate cards while shuffling the deck, we could make it to where our friend could be the top winner of that game or hand. That's called stacking the deck or seeding the deck is it not? So to put it plainly, we the people who have states that run computerized drawings are legally being cheated by our state or to put it more bluntly by our elected officials who allow it to happen! I guess this would a very sticky subject as to what the legality of the word seeding would actually mean when it comes to computerized gaming of any kind!

                        Keep dreaming the impossible dream, it just may come true! Thumbs Up

                          BaristaExpress's avatar - BaristaExpressMX zpsfb0d8b5d.png
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                          Posted: January 20, 2007, 10:32 am - IP Logged

                          I'm sorry about the statement "Any game that has a predetermined out come is considered rigged!" When referring to the lottery and RNG that is use for the lottery! I apologize.

                           I was think ahead about the slot machines that have a computer chip inside them. The discovery channel had some thing a while back about Vegas and the slot machines! Every time a slot handle is pulled or a button is pushed and the wheels spin, by the time the last wheel is done spinning the out come of the next pull of the machines handle is already determined! That means it has already determined if your going to win a few coins or the jackpot or that next spin of the wheels is going to be a spin for a loss of the wager! And that goes for the video poker machines also. The hands that are dealt are also predetermined if they are winning hands or ones that are a losing hand! Now that is really being cheated out of a wager by playing a computerized machine!

                          Keep dreaming the impossible dream, it just may come true! Thumbs Up

                            Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
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                            Posted: January 20, 2007, 10:39 am - IP Logged

                            KY Floyd

                            Sure, there are a lot more White Hens than Korgers. But how many people are in each during any given day?

                            Let's say a community has a Kroger, a Schnuck's, a Huck's, Moto-Mart, three liquor stores, and a White Hen. And in a year, 5 Little Lotto winners are sold, 4 of them at the White Hen. Kind of curious, no? 

                            And there are plenty of other convenience marts than the white Hen - Huck's, moto-Mart, many more, but yet the winners seem to be sold in White Hens (and liqour stores!).

                            Granted, there is no publicity like a store selling a winner, but it's  still kind of odd.

                            Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

                            Lep

                            There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

                              Rick G's avatar - avatar 1766.jpg
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                              Posted: January 20, 2007, 10:45 am - IP Logged

                              I have heard that in Illinois, each machine can be calibrated.  I dont know if this is true but it may explain why some stores have more winning quick pics than other stores.

                              vt8366a, no they can't be calibrated.  My agent wasn't happy about his winners-to-sales ratio and asked for a different terminal.  They gave him a different one but he says it hasn't made a difference.

                              If it could be calibrated, he'd be calibrating.   Type

                              Posted 4/6:  IL Pick 3 midday and evening until they hit:  555, 347 (str8).