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Breaking Las Vegas: Could it happen to the lotto..

Topic closed. 20 replies. Last post 10 years ago by Coin Toss.

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Honduras
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Posted: February 19, 2007, 4:01 am - IP Logged

Guys i just finished watching a show on A&E titled "Breaking las Vegas: Roullette style"...They show how 2 physic students in the 80's or 70's (don't remember) decided to "break" las Vegas...I've never seen such "intelligence" put into a goal...These guys invented some small circuitry computers not invented yet.And with physics equations they proved how you could win at the roullete (stuff like resistance of ball, trajector of ball, etc)..I've seen the program before about card counting but this one employ ingenuity..But i never hear of them..And i couldn't help to think that perhaps somewhere outhere there is a group of guys trying to break the lotto and if they had suceeded..Unlike casino the lotto doesn't have no one to watch you..And guys, you only need to match the numbers "Once", all it requires...Do you think there is a group outhere trying to or already crack the lotto?...

    Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
    Zeta Reticuli Star System
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    Posted: February 19, 2007, 10:21 am - IP Logged

    Trying, yes. Isn't that what a lot of people are doing here?

    Already cracked the lotto? Very doubtful. I someone did and could do it at will then they are showing an enormous amount of self discipline and restraint.

    pumpi- I have no doubt that some of these "break the casinos" shows on A & E and Discovery aren't in fact sponsored by the casinos themselves to "drum up business."

    Everuy year the Nevada Gaming Commission puts out a report on cheaters it has caught and on any new devices they've discovered tghat people are trying to beat the house with.

    People have even tried swithcing roullette balls and putting in their own radio controlled ball. 

    There's a law in Nevada called "defrauding an innkeeper" and if a casino wants somoene arrested that's what they get charged with.

    Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

    Lep

    There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

      tiggs95's avatar - Lottery-036.jpg

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      Posted: February 19, 2007, 10:47 am - IP Logged

      Maybe I'm weird but I'd love to win by luck or mistake..Seems to be more fun if you win by luck or by some mistake you make with number's..Just my opinion...

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        Honduras
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        Posted: February 19, 2007, 11:17 am - IP Logged

        Coin toss, You said: "Trying, yes. Isn't that what a lot of people are doing here?

        What i meant is that perhaps there could a group outhere that's more advanced than us here at LP...LIke what if a group knew thing we don't know, like if they had a lotto machine replica and knew small physics we don't know about or had physics equation we don't know about or they had small not visible gadgets, like camera, etc..In the show the two physics students write a physic equation that takes into account speed of ball, resitance, etc..That's what i meant...

        What makes me paranoid about all this is to know that mankind has invented something i think is incredible..And that's the invention of the pen..Do you know the mechanics of the pen..Do you know how ink runs through the tube and then flow through the tip of the pen.The tip of the pens is what's incredible, i mean how do they build that..And if mankind could build incredible and minute stuff like the writing pen, i am sure they could invent stuff that can go unnotice and tip the odds of the lottery in one's favor...How about "MicroPhysics" (physics of small intricate things) could it aid someone win the lottery...Somewhere in my mind i believe that there is a group outthere more advanced than us, because the prospect of winning the lottery has had to have crossed lots of people's mind including physicists and Tomas Edison-type of scientists...And the all the shows of this type show things that happened at least 10 years ago..Where are the recents stories...

         

        "Laura Simpson from Great Lakes, Illinois deserves to be rich..     She is so rare..."

          RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
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          Posted: February 19, 2007, 11:27 am - IP Logged

          Maybe I'm weird but I'd love to win by luck or mistake..Seems to be more fun if you win by luck or by some mistake you make with number's..Just my opinion...

          I agree, you are weird because most players want to win anyway they can without breaking the law.  That's the reason so called new and improved winning lottery systems and prediction software continue to sell.

           * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
             
                       Evil Looking       

            Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
            Zeta Reticuli Star System
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            Posted: February 19, 2007, 1:42 pm - IP Logged

            pumpi76

             "like what if a group knew thing we don't know, like if they had a lotto machine replica and knew small physics..."

            Dice and dice games are 'older than dirt' and yet despite computers and people writing prolific software to try and beat a dice table that hasn't happened yet.

            I doubt that any lotto machine replice would produce the same exact results that any loto machine in use for a drawing is going to get on the next draw. Even if it did it would probably be just a freak coinicidence, the ultiamte longshot, but still a coincidence.  

            The gambling industry considers there are only two things that can be beat consistently, and they are poker and sports betting. The people who do beat those know them inside out and literally eat, breathe, and sleep those things.

             There was once actually a court case in California to decide if poker was gambling or a game of skill, and it was decided it was a game of skill. The reason was that over a period of time any given number of players would have been dealt and equal number of good and bad hands, but the people that played those hands well would be the winners. 

            Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

            Lep

            There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

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              Posted: February 19, 2007, 4:29 pm - IP Logged

              Pumpi: They show how 2 physic students in the 80's or 70's (don't remember) decided to "break" las Vegas...I've never seen such "intelligence" put into a goal...

              The book Eudaemonic Pie describes how they clocked the speed of the wheel, the speed of the ball and their shoe computers calculated the probable quadrant the ball would fall into.

              It could be done without the aide of a computer if a person had a good memory and didn't get dizzy watching the wheel spinning and trying to pick out which number the ball was dropped by.

              Pumpi: And i couldn't help to think that perhaps somewhere outhere there is a group of guys trying to break the lotto and if they had suceeded..

              That was done when the lotto games had smaller matrixes, 6/40 - 6/44 and the jackpots were considerably higher then all the possible combinations. When the jackpot was high enough, they simply bought every combination. I believe that happened in Virginia and several states created rules to prevent that from happening in their lotto.
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                Posted: February 19, 2007, 4:35 pm - IP Logged

                I agree, you are weird because most players want to win anyway they can without breaking the law.  That's the reason so called new and improved winning lottery systems and prediction software continue to sell.

                Speaking of "new and improved systems", I saw an ad on a Yahoo page that had a system where you could win $5000 a month and right below it was a system where you could win $5000 a week.

                lmao

                  tiggs95's avatar - Lottery-036.jpg

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                  Posted: February 19, 2007, 5:30 pm - IP Logged

                  Anyone ever find a SURE system let me know..Until then it's either good luck or bad luck...

                    Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
                    Zeta Reticuli Star System
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                    Posted: February 19, 2007, 8:26 pm - IP Logged

                    pumpi76

                    I'm not sure I should do this to you, but since you mentioned something like pens, consider this:

                    Nikola Tesla - Mystery Invention

                    Ten years after patenting a successful method for producing alternating current, Nikola Tesla claimed the invention of an electrical generator that would not consume any fuel. This invention has been lost to the public. Tesla stated about his invention that he had harnessed the cosmic rays and caused them to operate a motive device.

                    In total, Nikola Telsa was granted more than one hundred patents and invented countless unpatented inventions.

                    http://inventors.about.com/od/tstartinventions/a/Nikola_Tesla.htm 

                    Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

                    Lep

                    There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

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                      Honduras
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                      Posted: February 20, 2007, 1:11 am - IP Logged

                      pumpi76

                      I'm not sure I should do this to you, but since you mentioned something like pens, consider this:

                      Nikola Tesla - Mystery Invention

                      Ten years after patenting a successful method for producing alternating current, Nikola Tesla claimed the invention of an electrical generator that would not consume any fuel. This invention has been lost to the public. Tesla stated about his invention that he had harnessed the cosmic rays and caused them to operate a motive device.

                      In total, Nikola Telsa was granted more than one hundred patents and invented countless unpatented inventions.

                      http://inventors.about.com/od/tstartinventions/a/Nikola_Tesla.htm 

                      whao didn't know anything about Nikola Telsa...

                       

                       

                      "Laura Simpson, from Great lakes, Illinois deserves to be rich.."      She is so rare.."

                        justxploring's avatar - villiarna
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                        Posted: February 20, 2007, 3:06 am - IP Logged

                         Stack47 writes:  "That was done when the lotto games had smaller matrixes, 6/40 - 6/44 and the jackpots were considerably higher then all the possible combinations. When the jackpot was high enough, they simply bought every combination. I believe that happened in Virginia and several states created rules to prevent that from happening in their lotto." 

                         

                        I am trying to figure out why anyone would buy all the winning combinations in a lottery game that was 6/44 (or even 6/40)  First of all, I don't think there is enough time between games.  Rather than figure out the odds, I'll use a 6/42 game as an example, since MA lottery has one. There are 1:5,245,786 odds for Mass Megabucks.  Even if you bought all 5,245,786 combinations, there is still a chance that you won't win. First you must be very careful and fill out 5,245,786 bet slips, no quick picks (which can be duplicated)  You can cut down the number of cards if there are 5 or 10 plays on each. But even with 10 per card, you'd still have to collect about 525,000 separate cards and fill in all the tiny boxes.  Then you'd have to check each ticket to confirm they were printed correctly, since mistakes do happen. I've gotten back the wrong numbers a few times, even using a card. Once a clerk ran one of my cards through twice (skipping one) and another time I just got a ticket with the wrong number. Maybe dust got on the card or in the terminal? I have no idea.  With millions of combinations, it's much more likely something will go wrong.  On top of everything I've mentioned, one person couldn't possibly stand at a terminal and buy that many tickets.  So let's say 100 people get together and form a pool to accomplish this time consuming task. The list of combinations are divided and each member must complete approx 5,250 cards with 10 panels, spending $525,000.  So to break even, the jackpot would have to be a minimum of $5,245,768 and nobody plays to break even. But then you'd still have to split it 100 ways.  A 6/42 game will rarely roll over several times, so I don't see how this would work.

                        One more thing - for argument's sake, let's say all of the above is possible. Even if one person bets all the combinations, nothing is preventing another player from playing one or several of the same numbers.  So let's say there is actually a lunatic who decides to gamble millions of dollars on a lottery game and really goes through with it. He might have to share the jackpot anyway.

                          justxploring's avatar - villiarna
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                          Posted: February 20, 2007, 3:48 am - IP Logged

                          Sorry about the long post above - just couldn't figure out any other way to say it. 

                          Anyway, now I want to comment on the subject of cracking the lottery.  How can something that is supposed to be random be "cracked?"  I would think all the stories we read in the news forum that show winners who haven't a clue (most of them chose quick picks anyway) clearly demonstrate that the majority of winners aren't mathematicians. Some of them probably can't count to 10 if you put mittens on their hands.  I can think of many press releases where someone said "I used the birthdays of my children" or "it was my first ticket ever. I had a dollar in my pocket and asked someone to help me fill in the card."  I do think using the laws of possibilities and watching how the numbers are drawn each week, might help in some way to increase one's chances, but what about the pre-drawing test runs? (which I don't like)  Even if someone finally figured out "these 6 will hit on Saturday," they might be the numbers in the pre-drawing test runs.  I think it's more possible to win "cracking a code" in the computerized states, although I'm against computerized drawings. I'm only saying that, because then it might not be as random.  I don't think a computer can be totally random because computers are programmed to be logical and use information.

                            Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
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                            Posted: February 20, 2007, 11:13 am - IP Logged

                            1992 Virginia lottery, sorry if this has already been posted here somewhere but here it is:

                            ........... If this seems fanciful – or insane – you only have to look at the Australian syndicate led by Stefan Mandel. They managed to keep their existence relatively secret until the syndicate hit the big one, a single ticket which paid $27 million in the 1992 Virginia State Lottery in the USA. It was the fourteenth big lottery win engineered by Mr Mandel and, as it turned out, his last major coup.

                            Simply explained, his syndicate waited until a lottery anywhere in the world had rolled over its jackpot for weeks on end. When the jackpot was, say, £20 million, but there were only 8 million possible winning combinations, his team would move in and start buying. Mathematically they calculated they could make between 120% and 400% return on their money, depending on the numbers drawn. If a popular series of numbers came out – numbers under 31 are played far more often than numbers over 31 because people choose their friends’ and families’ date of births – they would win less, but they would still be ahead on their investment.

                            What Mr Mandel had not realised is quite how peeved the Virginian authorities would be. They did not expect their largest ever jackpot to be exported and launched an enquiry. Their investigations found that 35 agents purchased hundreds of thousands of tickets but that even a team that size was unable to cover the 7,059,052 possible combinations of tickets, so that when shortly before midnight on 15 February, 1992, the numbers - 8, 11, 13, 15, 19 and 20 – were drawn, the syndicate were more than mildly concerned that they had bought five million tickets in vain. Fortunately, they had covered enough bases and held the winning ticket.

                            There the luck pretty much ran out. The taxman stated that a 30% tax on gambling winnings should be imposed, as it was a professionally-orchestrated operation rather than winnings by chance. The CIA, FBI and Internal Revenue Service in the United States, and the Australian Securities Commission, National Crime Authority and the Victoria Police gaming squad all became involved, although no wrongdoing was proved. The members of the syndicate fell out, Mandel fled to his native Romania and in August 1995 was declared bankrupt, with debts in excess of A$500,000.........

                            Should you join a betting syndicate? My personal experience is that, run by the right people (ie ridiculously overqualified PhD physicists who should be working on the derivatives desk of an investment bank instead of footling about on the horses), then it’s great. Otherwise, the joys of Treasury bonds may be a better path to early retirement.

                            The whole article is here:

                            http://www.betasia.com/features/how-to-win/business-life/88/syndicate-betting.html 

                            Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

                            Lep

                            There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

                              justxploring's avatar - villiarna
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                              Posted: February 20, 2007, 2:24 pm - IP Logged

                              Interesting. Thanks, Coin Toss.  I wasn't doubting Stack47, just thought the whole idea sounded crazy.  The article does state that even with a well organized group of 35 people,  they were not able to cover every possible combination.  There was still a very large gap and quite a chance that almost 2 million other combinations could have been drawn.  So there was still a lot of luck involved and much more risk than I'd ever take.

                              In a way, I really have to support the official decision, and that's rare for me. This isn't the same as a lottery pool and gave an unfair advantage to the syndicate.  The whole idea of a lottery is to be fair and random. That's not to say that somebody with $500 to blow can't buy 499 more tickets than another, but this operation went to the extreme.