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The State should get sued: how i feel..

Topic closed. 20 replies. Last post 10 years ago by BobP.

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Badger's avatar - adu50016 NorthAmericanBadger.jpg
United States
Member #1303
March 27, 2003
1508 Posts
Posted: March 6, 2007, 3:43 pm - IP Logged


I'm not sure that the Native American casinos pay taxes:

From a blog:

One of the upcoming California ballot initiatives asks whether Indian casinos should be required to pay taxes. Thus far, this extremely profitable $6 billion industry (and that’s just here in California) has operated tax-free.

I’ve come to the conclusion that native American casinos should pay taxes http://www.rapp.org/archives/2004/04/should_indian_casinos_pay_taxes/pay taxes.

 Then there's this:

Casinos cause property devaluation and lost taxes when businesses and lands are taken over by tax-exempt tribes. While casino owners argue that they create jobs and help neighboring businesses, the casinos (which, as Indian enterprises, do not have to pay the same taxes or abide by the same laws as other establishments) actually damage competing businesses nearby--restaurants, bars, hotels, retail outlets. "When the Indian casino comes to town, nobody else does well," says Benedict.


(Dang, linking not working)

We had people on a river boat who had worked on Indian casinos in Wisconsin and Minnesota. The one in Minnesota paid no taxes and so every tribal member got $5100 a month from the casino profits. Not just the employees, every tribal member.

Well believe me, I know for a fact that the casinos in my state pay taxes to the state. The state govt makes a point of telling us. The Native American tribes even use it in their commercials, touting how many millions of dollars they put into the economy here each year. Now they may not pay Federal taxes, that I don't know. But they do pay millions each year to the state. And if they do it here, rest assured that other states are not going to let them get away without paying to them.

And all those millions (not to mention the many millions in profits ) of course is actually the money lost by the bettors, mostly at the slot machines.


How can you tell if a politician is lying?

Answer: His lips are moving.


    Member #20982
    August 29, 2005
    4715 Posts
    Posted: March 6, 2007, 3:59 pm - IP Logged

    When i say online lotteries i am also referring to private lotteries... 

    Imagine this:      Imagine you live in a state(or country) where the only religion you are allowed to follow is that of the state's/country's religion...And imagine the state were to tell you that you are not allow to start another religion that's beside what the state has...You are not obligated to follow the state's religion but you are prohibited from starting a new or different religion...HOw will you feel? Don't you feel that the state should create/promote/fund different religions for those that do not want to follow the state's religion or allow others to form different religions beside the state's...What's so different between what i just said and the case of the state's lottery...



    "Laura Simpson from Great Lakes, Illinois deserves to be rich...."          "She is so rare...."

      truecritic's avatar - PirateTreasure
      United States
      Member #22395
      September 24, 2005
      1583 Posts
      Posted: March 6, 2007, 7:58 pm - IP Logged

      Way before New Hampshire started the lottery, there were "independent business men" running the lottery the whole time.

      Of course, the main game was what is known as as the "pick 3" but back then it was called "numbers" or "policy" - AHEM! 

      When those guys ran things there was no tax on winnings.



       Re: free lotteries.... gambling critics, and some gamblers themselves would see "free lotteries" and say, "See how people are. They want to win a jackpot without even coughing up a buck ($1) for a ticket."

      "When those guys ran things there was no tax on winnings."

      Yeah, can't beat that.  So the Government shut them down and gave us "The Lottery!"  LOL

        Badger's avatar - adu50016 NorthAmericanBadger.jpg
        United States
        Member #1303
        March 27, 2003
        1508 Posts
        Posted: March 6, 2007, 8:16 pm - IP Logged

        They sell cigarettes tax free, isn't that how they get that on?

        Native American lands (used to be called "reservations") are Soverign territory acccording to the Fed govt. That means they have their own police forces, courts. laws, govt, etc.  Transactions taking place on those lands is not subject to the US Fed rules and laws (hence no taxes on cigarettes where the purchse of them is made on those lands. (i.e. the money changes hands on soverign territory....just as if you purchased something in another country.

        However, not all Native American casinos are situated on Native American land. Where is the best place to build a casino?  In a population center. You will get more business/customers/gamblers if it is easy for them to come to the casino, than you will if they must travel far out into the "boondocks". Therefore, if you are not building on soverign land, you must then negotiate a "compact" with the state govt to do so.....and the state govt is not going to just allow you to not pay up. As part of negotiating the compact, you negotiate how much you pay the state from your revenues....and that amount becomes your taxes. It is a percentage of your gross revenues and goes to the state. And there is more than enough money to go around because 99.9% of the gamblers lose what they bring to the casino. So even while paying the state taxes, you can make millions per year, as long as you get the traffic to the casino.

        Here, for instance, our largest population area is Milwaukee. There is only one casino, and that tribe pays taxes to the state, as negotiated with the state govt.  Basically, they have a regional monopoly.

        There is another tribe trying to build a casino about 30 miles south, in the 4th largest population area. The tribe in Milwaukee, naturally, is lobbying against this, as they know it will take customers from them (the new casino would be a thirty-mile straight trip south on the interstate) When you have a monoply, you don't want competition. No different (here) than the cable company or electric company. If you want electricity here, there is only one company you can get it from. If you want cable, there is only one company you can get it from.

        Personally, I think it hypocritical that we are supposed to be a Free Market economy, yet the state govt allows and encourages such monopolies.  Competition may not be good for the monopolies, but it is good for the consumer.


        How can you tell if a politician is lying?

        Answer: His lips are moving.

          psykomo's avatar - animal shark.jpg

          United States
          Member #4877
          May 30, 2004
          5145 Posts
          Posted: March 6, 2007, 8:47 pm - IP Logged

          In my opinion, I believe that this viewpoint is the inherit problem associated with lotteries to begin with. Why, because all said and done, Lotteries is just another form of gambling. And with any form of gambling, it is designed to make the House wealthy. Not the players. Sure, you will get a few random “big winners”. But the House wins every single time. And if you believe anything else, your bubble is going to be busted. State run lotteries exist for the sole reason of generating revenue. And in the majority of the situations, it is done due to poor management and greed of the politicians.


          The only reason online gambling is outlawed is because none of them are bright enough to setup an arrangement with the States or with the Federal IRS to collect and pay taxes. If just a single online establishment was to make prearrangements to collect, pay and report taxes on all of the participants (much like the Casinos in Vegas does) I do believe they would see more then $50 billion pass thru in the first year. The problem is, both the States and the IRS are too damn greedy to work to find a happy medium to allow public, for profit, Online Lottery to exist.


          I think Georgia has done ok with its lottery, but it could do better. Instead of funding special interest quasi-educational related special interest projects, it should be building quality schools and hiring intelligent teachers as well as offering better financial incentives to those school systems that show improved performance along with reduced expulsions of the students deemed “difficult”.


          I believe state run Lotteries are perhaps the purest form of volunteer taxation. I also believe that in some cases, it can be a good thing, if managed properly and accounted for. I also believe I will hit it big with the Lottery. But hey, like I stated in my opening sentence, this is only my opinion. And in my little corner of fantasy and reality, that is all that matters to me.


          Sir Metro

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            BobP's avatar - bobp avatar.png
            Dump Water Florida
            United States
            Member #380
            June 5, 2002
            3114 Posts
            Posted: March 6, 2007, 10:47 pm - IP Logged

            Pumpi76 I believe you make a valid point.  If contests and sweepstakes are required to offer an alternative method of entry to avoid the necessity of purchase, then the lottery should also offer citizens a way to play at least one free ticket per drawing.

            The state has a monopoly on lottery games, in part because private industry did such a poor job running them a hundred years ago. 

            They take a dim view of all their competition and like any competitor take any oppertunity to do in their competition.  For example, lawyers for the state/lottery will argue the purchase of your internet subscription service constitutes consideration meaning you are paying for your free online lottery ticket making it a paid lottery and therefore illegal.

            States like Florida make the online lottery post a bond proving they can pay the prize, this has resulted in most online lotteries limiting the Florida jackpot prize to $5,000.00 read into this what you like.

            When FreeLotto first went online the owner expected to be sponsored by industry such as Coke and Pepsi, never happened in part bacause they consider lottery gambling and didn't want to be associated with it, at least that was the excuse they gave.