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Guru101

Indiana
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Aug 10, 2007, 8:59 pm

You have just filled out a lucky $5 PowerBall playslip of some numbers you have picked. You go to the store to play them and "somehow" the clerk accidently prints 2 copies of the ticket. This person plays PowerBall as well, so this person decides to set the extra ticket aside and they will purchase it themself and you purchased your copy(not knowing an extra one had been printed) and be on your way. The current PowerBall jackpot is $50 million and your ticket ends up winning. You have decided to wait a week before coming forward to claim your prize. Three days after the drawing, you're watching the local news station and they are doing a story on 1 of the 2 winners that had come forward to claim their prize. It's the clerk from the store. Since the winning ticket didn't come out as a Quick Pick, they ask the person how they chose the numbers. The clerk states that he/she accidently printed a second copy of the ticket and purchased it themself. What would you do in this situation? Would you let it go? Would you take legal action? Do you have similar situations that have happened previously you would like to talk about? The main reason I'm interested in this is because of the lady who won $200,000 on PowerBall and since the clerk accidently printed another copy she also won $200,000. However, in this situation the clerk will end up taking half the prize away from the other person, a situation that could lead to debate.

Gonna win.
tnlotto1

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Aug 10, 2007, 9:07 pm

i dont think you would have a case in court because the clerk will say they printed the duplicate by accident. i would just take my 25million before taxes and be happy that i won that half.
Guru101

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Aug 10, 2007, 9:10 pm

Quote: Originally posted by tnlotto1 on Aug 10, 2007
i dont think you would have a case in court because the clerk will say they printed the duplicate by accident. i would just take my 25million before taxes and be happy that i won that half.

Ok, good to see someone's opinion on the matter. However, some people may believe they are entitled to know whether or not an extra ticket had been printed and given the option to purchase the ticket.

Gonna win.
tnlotto1

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Aug 10, 2007, 9:18 pm

Quote: Originally posted by Guru101 on Aug 10, 2007
Ok, good to see someone's opinion on the matter. However, some people may believe they are entitled to know whether or not an extra ticket had been printed and given the option to purchase the ticket.

you have a point because the clerk in carolina said the lady hugged her but they both won 200,000 but if it was your scenario then i dont think you would want to hug someone who won 25million dollars with your numbers. you would know they printed out a duplicate because the odds are slim that someone went to the same lottery terminal the same day you did around the same time and picked the same number you did so you would know something happened even if they didnt admit it to the lottery office at first.
RJOh

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Aug 10, 2007, 10:13 pm

Quote: Originally posted by Guru101 on Aug 10, 2007
Ok, good to see someone's opinion on the matter. However, some people may believe they are entitled to know whether or not an extra ticket had been printed and given the option to purchase the ticket.

Think of it another way, the clerk prints the extra ticket and you both lose and she tells you the next time she sees you that she lost money she really needed buying the duplicate of your losing ticket. Do you help her out?
The reason I asked, a couple of years ago I got a sad PM from a member who claimed he played some of my predictions and lost money he really needed. I didn't know if he was joking or what. In my PM I told him too bad, he was a fool if he gambled money he couldn't afford to lose.

* you don't need to buy every combination, just the winning ones *
Guru101

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Aug 10, 2007, 10:24 pm

Quote: Originally posted by RJOh on Aug 10, 2007
Think of it another way, the clerk prints the extra ticket and you both lose and she tells you the next time she sees you that she lost money she really needed buying the duplicate of your losing ticket. Do you help her out?
The reason I asked, a couple of years ago I got a sad PM from a member who claimed he played some of my predictions and lost money he really needed. I didn't know if he was joking or what. In my PM I told him too bad, he was a fool if he gambled money he couldn't afford to lose.

If someone ends up spending money on the lottery when they know they can't afford it, then it's their own fault. Also, in this situation, the clerk had already planned to spend money on PowerBall tickets. That person just ended up buying an extra ticket.

Gonna win.
RJOh

100

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Aug 10, 2007, 11:25 pm

Quote: Originally posted by Guru101 on Aug 10, 2007
If someone ends up spending money on the lottery when they know they can't afford it, then it's their own fault. Also, in this situation, the clerk had already planned to spend money on PowerBall tickets. That person just ended up buying an extra ticket.

The point I was making when a person gambles they're taking a chance, win or lose and winning even with the same numbers some else played don't make it a shared responsibility.
Last year there was a case in England where a man and women were buying auto pick lottery tickets and the man allowed her to step in front of him and she bought the winning ticket. He thought she should have offered him part of her winnings for being a gentleman and she didn't.
There are players who when they are buying scratch-off tickets thinks it's rude for others to buy tickets off the rolls before they have finished buying tickets, they usually only get mad if the other player buys a winner.

* you don't need to buy every combination, just the winning ones *
hypersoniq

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Aug 10, 2007, 11:36 pm

200,000 is a tier 2 prize, shouldn't be an issue because that part of PB isn't divided.
The jackpot would be divided however. Question is...
how much of your $25,000,000 are you going to give to lawyers to fight for what you would end up recovering of the other 25 million... providing you WIN the case?

Have an EXCELlent day!
guesser

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Aug 10, 2007, 11:38 pm

The clerk 'accidentily' printing off a second ticket is really no different than someone else picking the same numbers 1,000 miles away somewhere else. If the clerk prints off an 'extra' copy of your numbers, and they are losers, do you owe the clerk any money ?   No. What if you ran in the store just before the deadline, bought a pre-printed ticket (and it was really a duplicate of somebody else's ticket bought earlier), and it won, would you complain ? No.    Would you hand your winnings to the original ticket buyer ? I think not.
They are not 'your' numbers, they are public domain. It would be no different than the folks that post predictions HERE, someone seeing someone else's numbers, using them, changing ONE number, and playing them (and winning). Are you obligated to share ? NO.    Is 'sharing' the right thing to do ? Probably not: because when will it stop ? If 15 people pick numbers 5-10-30, and different combinations for the other two numbers, and I happen to pick 5-10-30 and the CORRECT combo for the other two, must I share with 15 other people ? No.
As far as letting someone else in a line ahead of you and them hitting the winners, you are entitled to ZIP because YOU let them in. It would be no different than if you picked the winners - are you going to share with the person that was in line BEHIND you ? I don't think so.
How many times have you stepped away from a slot machine in a Casino, the next person behind you steps in and wins ? Do you think they 'owe' you ?    If you do, you have rocks in your head.
This is why they call all of this 'gambling' - you pays yer money and takes yer chances - and you lose 97% of the time - or more.
Some folks appear to be letting 'wishful thinking' get ahead of common sense and reality - especially with large sums of money. There is a word for these kinds of people, and that word is 'broke' - 'sucker' - 'fool' - or something along those lines.
Guru101

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Aug 11, 2007, 12:05 am

Quote: Originally posted by guesser on Aug 10, 2007
The clerk 'accidentily' printing off a second ticket is really no different than someone else picking the same numbers 1,000 miles away somewhere else. If the clerk prints off an 'extra' copy of your numbers, and they are losers, do you owe the clerk any money ?   No. What if you ran in the store just before the deadline, bought a pre-printed ticket (and it was really a duplicate of somebody else's ticket bought earlier), and it won, would you complain ? No.    Would you hand your winnings to the original ticket buyer ? I think not.
They are not 'your' numbers, they are public domain. It would be no different than the folks that post predictions HERE, someone seeing someone else's numbers, using them, changing ONE number, and playing them (and winning). Are you obligated to share ? NO.    Is 'sharing' the right thing to do ? Probably not: because when will it stop ? If 15 people pick numbers 5-10-30, and different combinations for the other two numbers, and I happen to pick 5-10-30 and the CORRECT combo for the other two, must I share with 15 other people ? No.
As far as letting someone else in a line ahead of you and them hitting the winners, you are entitled to ZIP because YOU let them in. It would be no different than if you picked the winners - are you going to share with the person that was in line BEHIND you ? I don't think so.
How many times have you stepped away from a slot machine in a Casino, the next person behind you steps in and wins ? Do you think they 'owe' you ?    If you do, you have rocks in your head.
This is why they call all of this 'gambling' - you pays yer money and takes yer chances - and you lose 97% of the time - or more.
Some folks appear to be letting 'wishful thinking' get ahead of common sense and reality - especially with large sums of money. There is a word for these kinds of people, and that word is 'broke' - 'sucker' - 'fool' - or something along those lines.

I'm not sure if it's being assumed that I would feel entitled to the other half of the jackpot, but I wanted to make it clear that I wouldn't. However, even though I wouldn't think the person would have a moral or legal obligation to give me the other half, I do think it would be a bummer.

Gonna win.
Stack47

Kentucky
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February 14, 2006
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Aug 11, 2007, 12:13 am

Quote: Originally posted by Guru101 on Aug 10, 2007
Ok, good to see someone's opinion on the matter. However, some people may believe they are entitled to know whether or not an extra ticket had been printed and given the option to purchase the ticket.

In Ohio if a clerk makes a mistake on a MM ticket, they must buy it.
I handed a clerk a bet slip with 4 of my picks and 1 QP, she gave me the ticket, the bet slip and said "that will be $50". The ticket was for the next 10 draws; there were no marks on the bet slip indicating it was for the next 10 draws and I wasn't going to pay for something I didn't ask for.
When I talked to the manager the next day, he told me the clerk didn't clear the screen when she put the bet slip in and had to pay for the ticket. So if PB has the same rules, I don't believe that you would have any legal recourse.
KY Floyd

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October 16, 2005
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Aug 11, 2007, 2:28 am

Quote: Originally posted by guesser on Aug 10, 2007
The clerk 'accidentily' printing off a second ticket is really no different than someone else picking the same numbers 1,000 miles away somewhere else. If the clerk prints off an 'extra' copy of your numbers, and they are losers, do you owe the clerk any money ?   No. What if you ran in the store just before the deadline, bought a pre-printed ticket (and it was really a duplicate of somebody else's ticket bought earlier), and it won, would you complain ? No.    Would you hand your winnings to the original ticket buyer ? I think not.
They are not 'your' numbers, they are public domain. It would be no different than the folks that post predictions HERE, someone seeing someone else's numbers, using them, changing ONE number, and playing them (and winning). Are you obligated to share ? NO.    Is 'sharing' the right thing to do ? Probably not: because when will it stop ? If 15 people pick numbers 5-10-30, and different combinations for the other two numbers, and I happen to pick 5-10-30 and the CORRECT combo for the other two, must I share with 15 other people ? No.
As far as letting someone else in a line ahead of you and them hitting the winners, you are entitled to ZIP because YOU let them in. It would be no different than if you picked the winners - are you going to share with the person that was in line BEHIND you ? I don't think so.
How many times have you stepped away from a slot machine in a Casino, the next person behind you steps in and wins ? Do you think they 'owe' you ?    If you do, you have rocks in your head.
This is why they call all of this 'gambling' - you pays yer money and takes yer chances - and you lose 97% of the time - or more.
Some folks appear to be letting 'wishful thinking' get ahead of common sense and reality - especially with large sums of money. There is a word for these kinds of people, and that word is 'broke' - 'sucker' - 'fool' - or something along those lines.

There's a substantial difference between a clerk using the betslip you filled out to print a 2nd ticket, and somebody else independently choosing the same numbers by sheer coincidence. If a clerk makes a mistake of any kind the customer isn't responsible. If you choose to buy a pre-printed ticket you have no reasonable expectations about it, except that it is a valid ticket. There's always the possibility that a court could rule that the store wasn't entitled to sell it to you if the person who originally chose the numbers goes to court. By posting your predictions you're telling other players you think they're good numbers to play, and you're voluntarily making them available to anyone who chooses to duplicate them.

There are really only two reasons to choose your own numbers. You think they've got a better chance of winning or you think they've got a better chance of being played only by you. The numbers themselves are available to anyone, but I think it's reasonable to feel that you have a proprietary interest in the combinations you choose. For PB there are 145 million of them, and for a typical drawing they may sell 20 to 30 million tickets. That means less than 1 in 5 combinations will be played. In the past the NY lottery ran advertisements telling people not to play some of the more heavily used combinations. Increased randomness and a better chance of being a sole winner has also been used as a reason for promoting QP's. If there's a decent legal case in the suggested scenario it will probably be based on the idea that even if you don't have any rights to the combination itself you do have the right to not have your combination used by an agent of the lottery. I'm pretty sure I've also seen disclaimers from the lottery that tickets printed in error aren't valid. I think there's definitely a good case that an accidental duplication of your ticket was printed in error, and therefore may be invalid based on the lottery's own rules if those rules have been applied to online games. The best solution to this scenario would be allowing tickets to be canceled within the first few minutes.
Of course even if your ticket is duplicted every time you play it's still extremely unlikely you'll have to the share the jackpot with somebody else.
KY Floyd

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Aug 11, 2007, 2:33 am

Quote: Originally posted by hypersoniq on Aug 10, 2007
200,000 is a tier 2 prize, shouldn't be an issue because that part of PB isn't divided.
The jackpot would be divided however. Question is...
how much of your $25,000,000 are you going to give to lawyers to fight for what you would end up recovering of the other 25 million... providing you WIN the case?

You wouldn't have to pay a lawyer a dime out of your $25 million. With that much at stake a lawyer who thinks they have a decent shot at winning will be very happy to take the case in contingency.
KY Floyd

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Aug 11, 2007, 2:36 am

Quote: Originally posted by Stack47 on Aug 11, 2007
In Ohio if a clerk makes a mistake on a MM ticket, they must buy it.
I handed a clerk a bet slip with 4 of my picks and 1 QP, she gave me the ticket, the bet slip and said "that will be $50". The ticket was for the next 10 draws; there were no marks on the bet slip indicating it was for the next 10 draws and I wasn't going to pay for something I didn't ask for.
When I talked to the manager the next day, he told me the clerk didn't clear the screen when she put the bet slip in and had to pay for the ticket. So if PB has the same rules, I don't believe that you would have any legal recourse.

The Ohio lottery may well have a rule that says the retailer must buy any tickets the retailer prints by accident, but employees are agents of the employer and can't legally be required to pay for any mistakes or accidental damage. Of course that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of employers who will try to make employees pay for their mistakes, and plenty of employees who don't know better or cooperate for fear of losing their job.
Stack47

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February 14, 2006
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Aug 11, 2007, 2:50 am

Quote: Originally posted by KY Floyd on Aug 11, 2007
The Ohio lottery may well have a rule that says the retailer must buy any tickets the retailer prints by accident, but employees are agents of the employer and can't legally be required to pay for any mistakes or accidental damage. Of course that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of employers who will try to make employees pay for their mistakes, and plenty of employees who don't know better or cooperate for fear of losing their job.

There is no "cancel ticket" option so apparently every ticket sold is a valid ticket and somebody has to pay for it. Had I asked for 5 QPs but didn't like the combos, I would still had to pay for them.
I used a bet slip and there were no marks on "number of draws" and machine printed out for the next 10 draws. It was an error by the clerk and hope she got some of her money back.

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