Welcome Guest
Log In | Register )
You last visited December 3, 2016, 8:36 am
All times shown are
Eastern Time (GMT-5:00)

tennessee RNG is hell.grrrrrrrr

Topic closed. 26 replies. Last post 9 years ago by jarasan.

Page 2 of 2
PrintE-mailLink
Avatar
Kentucky
United States
Member #32652
February 14, 2006
7295 Posts
Offline
Posted: August 21, 2007, 5:12 pm - IP Logged

http://www.tnlottery.com/

  LOTTERY’S CASH 3, CASH 4 DRAWINGS RECTIFIED

A programming issue that impacted the last three weeks of Cash 3 and Cash 4 drawings was discovered yesterday and attributed to a human error made by an outside, third party vendor, the Tennessee Lottery announced today.

“Once the issue was pinpointed, it was corrected immediately,” said Rebecca Hargrove, President and CEO of the Tennessee Lottery. “The Tennessee Lottery sincerely regrets what happened and wants to reassure our players and everyone in Tennessee that the drawings have been rectified and we will continue to move forward with our mission to maximize dollars for education.”

For those who selected two or more of the same numbers in a play for Cash 3 or Cash 4 during the past 23 days (July 28 through Aug. 20) and who still have their tickets, the Lottery is offering a double refund for the price of each ticket or two free plays equal to the play amount on the ticket. For those who play Cash 3 or Cash 4 for the next 23 days, from Aug. 22 until Sept. 13, the Lottery will offer additional cash prizes. Players can win up to $599 in Cash 3 and up to $6,000 in Cash 4. For more details about this offer, please CLICK HERE. 
 
 
 
 

"For those who selected two or more of the same numbers in a play for Cash 3 or Cash 4 during the past 23 days (July 28 through Aug. 20) and who still have their tickets, the Lottery is offering a double refund for the price of each ticket or two free plays equal to the play amount on the ticket."

Since Ms Hargrove is just offering refunds to those playing double, triples, or quads, it's obvious what the programming issue was. But she addmitted the drawings were flawed, shouldn't  ALL the tickets bought for those draws be refunded.

"Thank you for playing the Tennessee Lottery and for your comments.

The security and integrity of our games is of utmost importance and this greatly impacted our decision to go to these type drawings. The Tennessee Lottery goes to extreme measures to protect the integrity of its games in order to maximize dollars for education in the state.

For any one drawing, each of the available combinations of numbers has the same likelihood of being selected. Additionally, numbers selected in any one drawing has no relationship to a future or past drawing, since each drawing is a unique, separate and distinct occurrence.

We have had some other inquiries about the lack of double digit winning numbers, so we had our security staff run several random test draws, and double digits were drawn. "

In her efforts to "maximize dollars for education", do you think Ms. Hargrove fired the person that sent this email to KYmystical and the other players that inquired about the lack of double digit winning numbers?

    jarasan's avatar - new patrick.gif
    Harbinger
    D.C./MD.
    United States
    Member #44103
    July 30, 2006
    5583 Posts
    Online
    Posted: August 21, 2007, 5:37 pm - IP Logged

    "For those who selected two or more of the same numbers in a play for Cash 3 or Cash 4 during the past 23 days (July 28 through Aug. 20) and who still have their tickets, the Lottery is offering a double refund for the price of each ticket or two free plays equal to the play amount on the ticket."

    Since Ms Hargrove is just offering refunds to those playing double, triples, or quads, it's obvious what the programming issue was. But she addmitted the drawings were flawed, shouldn't  ALL the tickets bought for those draws be refunded.

    "Thank you for playing the Tennessee Lottery and for your comments.

    The security and integrity of our games is of utmost importance and this greatly impacted our decision to go to these type drawings. The Tennessee Lottery goes to extreme measures to protect the integrity of its games in order to maximize dollars for education in the state.

    For any one drawing, each of the available combinations of numbers has the same likelihood of being selected. Additionally, numbers selected in any one drawing has no relationship to a future or past drawing, since each drawing is a unique, separate and distinct occurrence.

    We have had some other inquiries about the lack of double digit winning numbers, so we had our security staff run several random test draws, and double digits were drawn. "

    In her efforts to "maximize dollars for education", do you think Ms. Hargrove fired the person that sent this email to KYmystical and the other players that inquired about the lack of double digit winning numbers?

    What a joke. The joke is going to be on them when they start losing more real money and even more non-computerized players.

    You know what is even worse they keep talking about where the money theoretically goes, like you shouldn't worry about it since it is going towards education anyway, yeah right. Thanks a lot it is for the children.  What education? What children?

    Well 30th ain't so bad. We're working on that also.

    Vermont is #1 and the lottery is A+ ball drawn, the people definitely a product of a good education system!

     

    RANK ORDER
    RANKSTATE

    SMART RATING

    2005-2006 RANK

    CHANGE RANKSTATE

    SMART RATING

    2005-2006 RANK

    CHANGE

    45

    Alabama

    -11.00

    43

    -2

     

    1

    Vermont

    18.57

    1

    0

    46

    Alaska

    -11.91

    44

    -2

     

    2

    Massachusetts

    16.09

    3

    1

    50

    Arizona

    -17.61

    50

    0

     

    3

    Connecticut

    14.46

    2

    -1

    32

    Arkansas

    -3.44

    37

    5

     

    4

    New Jersey

    14.35

    4

    0

    47

    California

    -13.10

    46

    -1

     

    5

    Maine

    10.79

    5

    0

    27

    Colorado

    -1.32

    23

    -4

     

    6

    Virginia

    10.07

    7

    1

    3

    Connecticut

    14.46

    2

    -1

     

    7

    Montana

    9.55

    9

    2

    28

    Delaware

    -2.47

    25

    -3

     

    8

    Wisconsin

    9.04

    8

    0

    29

    Florida

    -2.90

    36

    7

     

    9

    Iowa

    8.82

    14

    5

    41

    Georgia

    -6.92

    40

    -1

     

    10

    Pennsylvania

    8.69

    11

    1

    42

    Hawaii

    -9.31

    42

    0

     

    11

    Nebraska

    6.40

    12

    1

    20

    Idaho

    1.29

    28

    8

     

    12

    New Hampshire

    5.90

    15

    3

    35

    Illinois

    -4.32

    32

    -3

     

    13

    Minnesota

    5.33

    6

    -7

    24

    Indiana

    0.06

    26

    2

     

    14

    Rhode Island

    4.31

    16

    2

    9

    Iowa

    8.82

    14

    5

     

    15

    Kansas

    4.27

    13

    -2

    15

    Kansas

    4.27

    13

    -2

     

    16

    New York

    3.66

    10

    -6

    31

    Kentucky

    -3.24

    35

    4

     

    17

    South Dakota

    3.25

    18

    1

    44

    Louisiana

    -10.95

    45

    1

     

    18

    Maryland

    2.27

    19

    1

    5

    Maine

    10.79

    5

    0

     

    19

    Wyoming

    1.35

    17

    -2

    18

    Maryland

    2.27

    19

    1

     

    20

    Idaho

    1.29

    28

    8

    2

    Massachusetts

    16.09

    3

    1

     

    21

    North Dakota

    0.95

    20

    -1

    39

    Michigan

    -6.43

    27

    -12

     

    22

    Missouri

    0.94

    21

    -1

    13

    Minnesota

    5.33

    6

    -7

     

    23

    North Carolina

    0.84

    22

    -1

    48

    Mississippi

    -14.78

    49

    1

     

    24

    Indiana

    0.06

    26

    2

    22

    Missouri

    0.94

    21

    -1

     

    25

    Texas

    -0.11

    24

    -1

    7

    Montana

    9.55

    9

    2

     

    26

    South Carolina

    -1.19

    29

    3

    11

    Nebraska

    6.40

    12

    1

     

    27

    Colorado

    -1.32

    23

    -4

    49

    Nevada

    -15.81

    47

    -2

     

    28

    Delaware

    -2.47

    25

    -3

    12

    New Hampshire

    5.90

    15

    3

     

    29

    Florida

    -2.90

    36

    7

    4

    New Jersey

    14.35

    4

    0

     

    30

    Tennessee

    -3.01

    41

    11

    43

    New Mexico

    -10.60

    48

    5

     

    31

    Kentucky

    -3.24

    35

    4

    16

    New York

    3.66

    10

    -6

     

    32

    Arkansas

    -3.44

    37

    5

    23

    North Carolina

    0.84

    22

    -1

     

    33

    Washington

    -3.85

    30

    -3

    21

    North Dakota

    0.95

    20

    -1

     

    34

    Ohio

    -4.00

    31

    -3

    34

    Ohio

    -4.00

    31

    -3

     

    35

    Illinois

    -4.32

    32

    -3

    36

    Oklahoma

    -5.81

    39

    3

     

    36

    Oklahoma

    -5.81

    39

    3

    40

    Oregon

    -6.87

    38

    -2

     

    37

    West Virginia

    -5.82

    34

    -3

    10

    Pennsylvania

    8.69

    11

    1

     

    38

    Utah

    -6.30

    33

    -5

    14

    Rhode Island

    4.31

    16

    2

     

    39

    Michigan

    -6.43

    27

    -12

    26

    South Carolina

    -1.19

    29

    3

     

    40

    Oregon

    -6.87

    38

    -2

    17

    South Dakota

    3.25

    18

    1

     

    41

    Georgia

    -6.92

    40

    -1

    30

    Tennessee

    -3.01

    41

    11

     

    42

    Hawaii

    -9.31

    42

    0

    25

    Texas

    -0.11

    24

    -1

     

    43

    New Mexico

    -10.60

    48

    5

    38

    Utah

    -6.30

    33

    -5

     

    44

    Louisiana

    -10.95

    45

    1

    1

    Vermont

    18.57

    1

    0

     

    45

    Alabama

    -11.00

    43

    -2

    6

    Virginia

    10.07

    7

    1

     

    46

    Alaska

    -11.91

    44

    -2

    33

    Washington

    -3.85

    30

    -3

     

    47

    California

    -13.10

    46

    -1

    37

    West Virginia

    -5.82

    34

    -3

     

    48

    Mississippi

    -14.78

    49

    1

    8

    Wisconsin

    9.04

    8

    0

     

    49

    Nevada

    -15.81

    47

    -2

    19

    Wyoming

    1.35

    17

    -2

     

    50

    Arizona

    -17.61

    50

    0

      four4me's avatar - gate1
      MD
      United States
      Member #1701
      June 18, 2003
      8359 Posts
      Offline
      Posted: August 21, 2007, 6:13 pm - IP Logged

      "For those who selected two or more of the same numbers in a play for Cash 3 or Cash 4 during the past 23 days (July 28 through Aug. 20) and who still have their tickets, the Lottery is offering a double refund for the price of each ticket or two free plays equal to the play amount on the ticket."

      Since Ms Hargrove is just offering refunds to those playing double, triples, or quads, it's obvious what the programming issue was. But she addmitted the drawings were flawed, shouldn't  ALL the tickets bought for those draws be refunded.

      "Thank you for playing the Tennessee Lottery and for your comments.

      The security and integrity of our games is of utmost importance and this greatly impacted our decision to go to these type drawings. The Tennessee Lottery goes to extreme measures to protect the integrity of its games in order to maximize dollars for education in the state.

      For any one drawing, each of the available combinations of numbers has the same likelihood of being selected. Additionally, numbers selected in any one drawing has no relationship to a future or past drawing, since each drawing is a unique, separate and distinct occurrence.

      We have had some other inquiries about the lack of double digit winning numbers, so we had our security staff run several random test draws, and double digits were drawn. "

      In her efforts to "maximize dollars for education", do you think Ms. Hargrove fired the person that sent this email to KYmystical and the other players that inquired about the lack of double digit winning numbers?

      Stack47 the post many people made were derived for the news media and the lottery. emails sent back and forth from the Tennessee lottery are generic in nature that is everyone gets the same response.


       

      from the Tennessee lottery quote:

      The security and integrity of our games is of utmost importance and this greatly impacted our decision to go to these type drawings. Cash 3, Cash 4, Lotto 5 and Hot Trax drawings are now conducted at the Tennessee Lottery's headquarters in Nashville using one of two automated drawing machines which are stand-alone computers that operate as random number generators. A random number generator consists of highly secure computerized systems that generate numbers in a random manner, with no human involvement. In fact, Tennessee was using a random number generator to select winning numbers for our Hot Trax Champions drawings, and also for our recent Million $ Madness drawing.

      As always, the drawings are videotaped and monitored by our Lottery Security personnel. Once the winning numbers are drawn, they are transferred for broadcast to the viewing public to our partner television stations throughout the state.


      Here is another reply

       

      We apologize that your comments were not addressed in our response.
      For any one drawing, each of the available combinations of numbers has the same likelihood of being selected. Additionally, numbers selected in any one drawing has no relationship to a future or past drawing, since each drawing is a unique, separate and distinct occurrence.
      We have had some other inquiries about the lack of double digit winning numbers, so we had our security staff run several random test draws, and double digits were drawn.


      These responses were sent as they continued to use the corrupted software

        WIN  D's avatar - q05Q0
        Stone Mountain*Georgia
        United States
        Member #828
        November 2, 2002
        10491 Posts
        Offline
        Posted: August 21, 2007, 6:38 pm - IP Logged

        That's what i thought, a programming "error" ...

        Does anyone need more proof that the RNG draws can be and very likely are fixed? 

          Can you spell ...... 

                                   

                                       Class ACTION LAWSUIT !

                             Oh ...yes bet on it.

         

         

        The only real failure .....is the failure to try.                               

                                      Luck is a very rare thing....... Odds not so much. 

                                      Odds never change .....but probability does. 

                                                                                               Win d    

          WIN  D's avatar - q05Q0
          Stone Mountain*Georgia
          United States
          Member #828
          November 2, 2002
          10491 Posts
          Offline
          Posted: August 21, 2007, 6:46 pm - IP Logged

            You just can't beat good old Math and Probability analysis to sober up the Bureaucrats ......... someone read this or it was quoted to them.

              Good Job noahproblem ! 

           

               

          "We have had some other inquiries about the lack of double digit winning numbers, so we had our security staff run several random test draws, and double digits were drawn."

          KyMystikal, tell them (politely, of course) to put this in their pipe and smoke it - as of this afternoon (8/16) there have been 36 consecutive computerized pick 4 drawings with no multiple digits (38 total counting the last 2 ball draws on 7/27).  According to my calculations the odds on this happening are approx. 51 1/2 billion to one!

          There are 5040 out of 10000 4-digit combos with no repeats, giving a .5040 chance of 1 drawing with no repeats (IOW, just slightly better than a coin flip).  Raise that to the 36th power and you get 0.00000000001938649565, or 1 chance in  51,582,298,218.11.

           The odds will approximately double with each successive drawing that does not contain a multiple.

           I've heard that Tennessee's a nice place to visit (I've never been there myself), but I sure wouldn't bet my money there.

           

           

           

            Very Good ! These figures noahproblem worked out speak louder than words.  This is the post that should be sent to the Tenn. Newspapers.... or at least the newspapers that don't have the STATE as a customer.

                 Perhaps an out of state Newspaper would be more ," understanding" shall we say. It's our duty as folks who know better to follow through for those that are un-aware.  

           

              "The State has an obligation of not only being honest..... but being perceived as honest by the people."

                                  Win d 

           

           

          The only real failure .....is the failure to try.                               

                                        Luck is a very rare thing....... Odds not so much. 

                                        Odds never change .....but probability does. 

                                                                                                 Win d    

            jarasan's avatar - new patrick.gif
            Harbinger
            D.C./MD.
            United States
            Member #44103
            July 30, 2006
            5583 Posts
            Online
            Posted: August 21, 2007, 7:04 pm - IP Logged

              Can you spell ...... 

                                       

                                           Class ACTION LAWSUIT !

                                 Oh ...yes bet on it.

            I said this recently:

            "If they went computerized, it could open the door for a legal challenge.  The legal challenge would be proving that computer code is not random and is easily manipulated. If the court rules in favor of the challenge to the validity of RNG, precedent would be set, all RNG would be invalid.  Because PowerBall is multi-state it would be federal and would be very healthy for the industry to bring some light on the operations and money trails of the lotteries. 

            I can see it now, bringing in the programmers as witnesses to explain how they wrote the code, and then bringing in a set of balls with ball machine to cross examine.  Which would you trust to be more random? Programmers or a set of balls.  Hmmmmm......"

            I'm no attorney but even Kramers lawyer on Seinfeld could get this one done.

             "At your service"


              United States
              Member #17555
              June 22, 2005
              5582 Posts
              Offline
              Posted: August 21, 2007, 7:46 pm - IP Logged

              WOW ! Talk about a major mess up.

              But what boggles my mind is how the same kind of outrage isn't applied to the mechanical draws, with their musical tubes, and pretests.

              Not just one time, but everyday, and some twice a day !

              To this day, I haven't heard a good argument against what I've been saying for a while now.

              Can anyone show what I say doesen't interfere with the natural flow of what we interpret as "Chaos"? Moving tubes around and doing pretests. Not letting the public know what the new position of the tubes are.

              This reminds me of the pathetic 5 frame pics we got from our government showing what they claimed to be a plane flying into the Pentagon.

              What do they have to hide by not telling us the new positions of the tubes? And why have pretests, when breakdowns happen anyway, despite pretests? I know what the answer is....less breakdowns.....LOL

              That's like saying..."We're going to have a meeting to agree on a date for the actual meeting"...lol

              Talk about throwing a wrench into the mix....

                jarasan's avatar - new patrick.gif
                Harbinger
                D.C./MD.
                United States
                Member #44103
                July 30, 2006
                5583 Posts
                Online
                Posted: August 21, 2007, 8:44 pm - IP Logged

                Apples and oranges.

                The computerized drawing is a man-made abstract and interpetive  representation of what the programmers' perception or model of randomness which they choose to use in their Code.

                The ball, tube mixer, etc. whatever physical system that is used for draws is only influenced by the local laws of physics.  By this fact, empirical values are directly measureable and quantifiable, therefore can be tested and observed directly.

                The balls are real, the code is not.

                The greater of the two devils is the computer draw, we need to get on the side of one or the other, not to also start tearing down the lesser of two evils.

                It is easier to "authenticate" a ball draw because of the measurable variables more so than a computerized draw which is just a human construct. IMHO


                  United States
                  Member #17555
                  June 22, 2005
                  5582 Posts
                  Offline
                  Posted: August 22, 2007, 8:32 am - IP Logged

                  Apples and oranges.

                  The computerized drawing is a man-made abstract and interpetive  representation of what the programmers' perception or model of randomness which they choose to use in their Code.

                  The ball, tube mixer, etc. whatever physical system that is used for draws is only influenced by the local laws of physics.  By this fact, empirical values are directly measureable and quantifiable, therefore can be tested and observed directly.

                  The balls are real, the code is not.

                  The greater of the two devils is the computer draw, we need to get on the side of one or the other, not to also start tearing down the lesser of two evils.

                  It is easier to "authenticate" a ball draw because of the measurable variables more so than a computerized draw which is just a human construct. IMHO

                  I have no doubt the balls a real, and that they can be tested and all that. That is not what I was questioning.

                  I also concede that the code can be manipulated.

                  But what I'm asking is for someone to tell me that by rotating the tubes, and doing pretests, that the natural flow of the outcome of certain numbers within that tube are not being affected. Of course they are.

                  For just one example of many more, Let's say within the tube position one, the number 8 has been out for 60 days. Why do you think it has been out for so long? I'll tell ya, it's because they rotate the tubes. You'll notice that number did infact come out in it's original tube before the 60 or so days, but in a different position. So that original tube was moved around without telling the public of it's new position, and that's just plain wrong. New York used to print out in the paper, what the new positions were, but stopped. WHY?

                  I'll bet that if you put 10 balls in a paper bag number 0-9, and shake it up really well, and try to pick the number 8 ball, you'll have success way before your 60th try or whatever rediculous number.Sure they may be flukes from time to time, but I assure you that for the vast majority of the time, the number 8 will come out much sooner.

                  I just wish they would leave those dang machines alone. And if they break down once in a blue moon, let them, cause they breakdown anyway, even with pretests. So I don't buy it for a second. They're trying to make sure with every effort that they have the ability to erase any history, trend, patterns, and any hope of anyone having an advantage.

                  In New York, in an article I read in the Daily News, an official admitted to this. What more does anyone need to believe?

                   

                    jarasan's avatar - new patrick.gif
                    Harbinger
                    D.C./MD.
                    United States
                    Member #44103
                    July 30, 2006
                    5583 Posts
                    Online
                    Posted: August 22, 2007, 10:58 am - IP Logged

                    I have no doubt the balls a real, and that they can be tested and all that. That is not what I was questioning.

                    I also concede that the code can be manipulated.

                    But what I'm asking is for someone to tell me that by rotating the tubes, and doing pretests, that the natural flow of the outcome of certain numbers within that tube are not being affected. Of course they are.

                    For just one example of many more, Let's say within the tube position one, the number 8 has been out for 60 days. Why do you think it has been out for so long? I'll tell ya, it's because they rotate the tubes. You'll notice that number did infact come out in it's original tube before the 60 or so days, but in a different position. So that original tube was moved around without telling the public of it's new position, and that's just plain wrong. New York used to print out in the paper, what the new positions were, but stopped. WHY?

                    I'll bet that if you put 10 balls in a paper bag number 0-9, and shake it up really well, and try to pick the number 8 ball, you'll have success way before your 60th try or whatever rediculous number.Sure they may be flukes from time to time, but I assure you that for the vast majority of the time, the number 8 will come out much sooner.

                    I just wish they would leave those dang machines alone. And if they break down once in a blue moon, let them, cause they breakdown anyway, even with pretests. So I don't buy it for a second. They're trying to make sure with every effort that they have the ability to erase any history, trend, patterns, and any hope of anyone having an advantage.

                    In New York, in an article I read in the Daily News, an official admitted to this. What more does anyone need to believe?

                     

                    The topic of the thread is "tennessee RNG is grr....................."

                    Just about everybody on this forum would prefer ball draws over RNG.

                    The way the ball draws are handled is another topic.

                    It could be called "Ball Draw Protocols" or "Instead of RNG and balldraws, here is what we do to pick numbers....", you know to make it totally fair, a system that the Pac puts his stamp of approval on, remember "no problems only solutions".

                     The hexagon ball machine. It'll put the hex on you.


                      United States
                      Member #17555
                      June 22, 2005
                      5582 Posts
                      Offline
                      Posted: August 22, 2007, 11:36 am - IP Logged

                      The topic of the thread is "tennessee RNG is grr....................."

                      Just about everybody on this forum would prefer ball draws over RNG.

                      The way the ball draws are handled is another topic.

                      It could be called "Ball Draw Protocols" or "Instead of RNG and balldraws, here is what we do to pick numbers....", you know to make it totally fair, a system that the Pac puts his stamp of approval on, remember "no problems only solutions".

                       The hexagon ball machine. It'll put the hex on you.

                      Funny how I ask  very simple questions, yet all I'm getting is the rope-a-dope.

                      Just about everybody on this forum would prefer ball draws over RNG.

                      I think both methods stink. The balls have their issues, and so do the RNG. You are missing my point.

                      I asked a simple question. Can the manipulation of the rotation of tubes and pretests have a direct influence on the outcome of numbers, thus disrupting the natural flow? Very simple.

                      I guess you haven't read too many of my threads when I put down anyone who tries to say that what they believe is written in stone. Especially those religous folk who know what the secrets of the universe is, and which God is the right one.

                      I simply asked a question.

                      Yes, if it was my way, no tubes would be shuffled, but it won't happen, so how can I put the seal of approval on this? I've never ever said it's my way or the highway, but I do ask questions to see if what I'm saying has faults to it or not. But no one can answer without sarcastic remarks.

                      Just forget I asked.

                        jarasan's avatar - new patrick.gif
                        Harbinger
                        D.C./MD.
                        United States
                        Member #44103
                        July 30, 2006
                        5583 Posts
                        Online
                        Posted: August 22, 2007, 11:59 am - IP Logged

                        Funny how I ask  very simple questions, yet all I'm getting is the rope-a-dope.

                        Just about everybody on this forum would prefer ball draws over RNG.

                        I think both methods stink. The balls have their issues, and so do the RNG. You are missing my point.

                        I asked a simple question. Can the manipulation of the rotation of tubes and pretests have a direct influence on the outcome of numbers, thus disrupting the natural flow? Very simple.

                        I guess you haven't read too many of my threads when I put down anyone who tries to say that what they believe is written in stone. Especially those religous folk who know what the secrets of the universe is, and which God is the right one.

                        I simply asked a question.

                        Yes, if it was my way, no tubes would be shuffled, but it won't happen, so how can I put the seal of approval on this? I've never ever said it's my way or the highway, but I do ask questions to see if what I'm saying has faults to it or not. But no one can answer without sarcastic remarks.

                        Just forget I asked.

                        There is no sarcasm, and I am not rope a doping.  You have no disagreement from me that nothing is perfect, ever. That was not my point. 

                        Since you say both systems stink, and and your way will never happen, then why even bother?  That is why I am interested and wondering if there is another way to do it, maybe in another thread.

                        Yes, I have read many of your posts,  and I did not say your way or the highway.  I just asked what would you approve of,  instead of RNG or ball draws? In another thread.