New York Lottery won't pay $25,000 for taped-up scratch-off ticket

Oct 23, 2007, 9:20 am (52 comments)

New York Lottery

Woman plans to file lawsuit against the lottery

By the time lottery officials told Patricia Manzitto that her winning ticket was a fake, she already had spent nearly half the $25,000 she thought she'd won.

But when Manzitto went to collect her winnings four days later, officials at the New York Lottery's Garden City center told her that it looked as if her ticket had been forged by taping two halves of different tickets together. Lottery officials refused to pay up.

Manzitto, 64, of East Moriches, said the ticket had been cut in half when it came out of the machine. But the two sides looked like they fit together, so she taped them together.

On Oct. 5, Manzitto said she went to a Pathmark in Shirley, L.I., where she put $6 in a lottery ticket-dispensing machine and received three Blue Moon Bucks tickets.

The bottom half of one ticket was spit out unattached to the top half, said Manzitto, a paraprofessional at William Floyd HS.

Manzitto said she then took the tickets home to her husband, Salvatore, who scratched off the damaged ticket and saw it had two matching numbers — 13 — on either end, for a $25,000 prize.

"He said, 'Oh, my God! We won!' " Manzitto recalled. "Both of us are screaming and jumping up and down."

Manzitto was so excited she spent some of the prize money before she even tried to collect. She dropped $700 on more lottery tickets, put $3,000 down on a new Lexus and promised her grandkids $1,000 apiece.

But when Manzitto and her son went to the Lottery's Garden City office on Oct. 9 to collect, a supervisor who checked the taped-together ticket told her it was invalid.

"My heart just dropped," Manzitto said. Manzitto said she told the supervisor she was going to Pathmark to ask for tape from a surveillance camera above the machine, which she said would back up her story.

"He said, 'You really shouldn't go to Pathmark.' He said, 'I'm going to give it to an investigator, and they'll go to Pathmark,' " Manzitto recalled.

Manzitto's lawyer, Rosemarie Arnold, said an investigator never checked with Pathmark, and that as a result any footage of Manzitto's purchase may since have been taped over. Manzitto said the lottery officials "said my story sounded strange," implying that she might be trying to defraud them.

Patricia Manzitto of Long Island claims that these two halves of lottery tickets from one vending machine add up to $25,000 and plans to seek her winnings in a lawsuit.

Patricia Manzitto of Long Island
claims that these two halves of
lottery tickets from one vending
machine add up to $25,000 and
plans to seek her winnings in a
lawsuit.

"That's what's really got me so crazy," she said.

Now she says she wants her $25,000 — and her good reputation — back. At a news conference yesterday in State Supreme Court in Mineola, she said she plans to file a lawsuit against the New York Lottery within the week.

"I've spent my life trying to be an honest, upstanding, good person," she said.  "I started to cry," she said about being denied the payout. "I'm so frustrated."

But lottery officials weren't backing down yesterday.

John Charlson, director of communications for the New York Lottery, said many people try to cash in on taped-together tickets — enough that they have a form letter at the ready to explain to those people why they won't get their cash. He said the lottery doesn't pursue people they think have fraudulent tickets — but it doesn't pay up, either.

Charlson said the torn ticket was investigated and that the benday lines on the top half of the ticket are red and the bottom half lines are blue, which indicates that the ticket may have been manipulated.

Manzitto's lawyer, Arnold, doesn't dispute that the colored lines don't match, but argued that that is how the ticket was sold.

"When they tore that ticket, they tore up her dreams," said Arnold.

The New York Lottery was unmoved.

"This allegation is as silly as a bank customer saying she withdrew a hundred dollar bill from an ATM machine and Ben Franklin was on one half of the bill and George Washington was on the other half," said Charlson.

"It's the season for tricks and treats, and this one smells like a cheap trick," Charlson said. "At most, if the player thinks she's entitled to an award, it would be the two bucks she claims she spent on the bogus ticket."

The lottery reviews and investigates every claim, and cases, like the one presented by Manzitto, are so common that there is a form letter which advises manipulated tickets are not winners. In cases like Manzitto's the customer receives a letter that plainly states "ticket halves don't match."

The Blue Moon Bucks ticket. The back of the Blue Moon Bucks ticket.

Lottery Post Staff

Comments

Guest

All they need to do is scan the barcode.If it matches,she wins.If it doesn't match,she loses and should be prosecuted.I've had tickets torn from those machines but never right down the middle.

Raven62's avatarRaven62

The Ticket appears to be FAKE:

Drivedabizness

The "lawsuit" if not thrown out, will never be won. Time and time again, courts have upheld the notion that lotteries do not pay on non-winning, destroyed or altered tickets.

 

I find the "machine tore the ticket" allegation to be suspect as well. Machines these days have "bursters" that press on the perforations between tickets - I don't think they could would cut through the middle of a ticket like that.

 

What worries me most is the tone of the article. One of the main reasons Lotteries have security is to keep people from cashing bogus tickets - to keep the games fair. Though not perfect, I think most lotteries do a pretty good job. With a story like this one, the onus should definitely be on her to come up with a better claim. I mean, really - who goes out and spends all that money BEFORE they get paid? Do we want the lottery to have to pay just because someone was foolish?

JackpotWanna's avatarJackpotWanna

It is clearly a fake.  Notice the prize under the number 9.  Why isn't the $40.00 cut in half?

 

Very sad story.  Unhappy

RJOh's avatarRJOh

This ticket looks like a bad fake even to me, the winning number box  and the $40 have bottoms on both sides of the tear.  There seems to be some duplication on both sides of the tear on the half with the rules too.  That's just on the front, probably the back is even more obvious.

Manzitto's lawyer, Arnold, doesn't dispute that the colored lines don't match, but argued that that is how the ticket was sold.
"When they tore that ticket, they tore up her dreams," said Arnold.

This women and her lawyer should do some jail time.  This is the kind of prank you try to pull on a friend or co-worker, not the state lottery.

Raven62's avatarRaven62

Wasn't their a News Item where someone altered a Lottery Ticket as a Joke?

NITEHAWK61's avatarNITEHAWK61

I am sure he scanned it.

He was probably trying to give her a chance to backoff so she didn't go to jail.

But she looks like she would be a pain in the butt and keep coming.

it's fake!!!

numbergirly's avatarnumbergirly

That's right and not only that but, you see the amount $40.00 and $10.00 under the number nine it is clearly a fraud and the lawyer has to be pretty dense not to see that himself.

 

                                                                                            numbergirly

tnlotto1's avatartnlotto1

Quote: Originally posted by numbergirly on Oct 23, 2007

That's right and not only that but, you see the amount $40.00 and $10.00 under the number nine it is clearly a fraud and the lawyer has to be pretty dense not to see that himself.

 

                                                                                            numbergirly

i hadnt noticed that numbergirly you are right it is an obvious fraud when you look at that 40 and 10 part

justxploring's avatarjustxploring

Even if it isn't a fake and she is being sincere the following statement proves she's an idiot!

 

"Manzitto was so excited she spent some of the prize money before she even tried to collect. She dropped $700 on more lottery tickets, put $3,000 down on a new Lexus and promised her grandkids $1,000 apiece "

Madmaxxxx

Not knowing if this is a fake or not, I have had an instant ticket cut off just like this from the machines.  It was a $40 winner and the agent said as long as the barcode was intact they coould pay it.  So for those that say it isnt likely to have a ticket cut off, it is possible.

tntea's avatartntea

The Blue Moon Bucks ticket. The back of the Blue Moon Bucks ticket.

This is clearly two different tickets ..  the first numbers to indicate it the ticket numbers.  Front says ticket number 228 and the back says ticket number  023... Maybe off same row, but definitely two different tickets.

TheGameGrl's avatarTheGameGrl

Quote: Originally posted by Madmaxxxx on Oct 23, 2007

Not knowing if this is a fake or not, I have had an instant ticket cut off just like this from the machines.  It was a $40 winner and the agent said as long as the barcode was intact they coould pay it.  So for those that say it isnt likely to have a ticket cut off, it is possible.

Thank you Madmaxxx for chiming in. I sincerely thought it was a rare occurance to have tickets sliced incorrectly, but it DOES happen. My ten dollar ticket proved it over the weekend. The lady that came to the dispenser machine to undo the half eaten ticket said "Sure hope thats a winner because it was stuck in there and sliced up nicely!"...Reality was..it was a 20$ winner from the ten dollar ticket. And yes the cashier walked me up to the redemption counter so there wouldnt be any misunderstaning.

Luckily we have Letters that match out the winning ($20)TWTY or TWY have to appear on the ticket along with the bar codes and three digit code. THere are far too many security things to consider before trying to claim a winner.

Machines do make slicing mistakes.

All I could think of for this lady is "Dont count your chickens before they hatch". She truly shouldnt be near any gaming for a year or more. To bad one of the rules for claiming tickets isnt common sense. Foolishness never pays well.

Todd's avatarTodd

Quote: Originally posted by Raven62 on Oct 23, 2007

Wasn't their a News Item where someone altered a Lottery Ticket as a Joke?

Yes, there was.

Rolling's avatarRolling

The ticket is an obvious fake...and a really bad one as well. All NY instant games only have 3 validation codes for all prize levels (including top prizes). In the ticket there is X, P, and K on the bottom, but also an M on the upper-left. There is no such thing as a 4-letter validation code on any NY instant ticket. This person obviously didn't know this fact and thought that if they just attached two tickets...one half, which contained the winning number, and the other, containing the matching number w/ prize, they would be set.

In addition, all NY instant tickets alternate between red and blue lines in the actual play area. No single ticket can have blue AND red lines showing.

Here's what I think probably happened: The person bought a couple of consecutive Blue Moon Bucks instant game tickets from the machine. Let's say they were ticket numbers 229, 228, and 227. All the tickets were losers, but they noticed that ticket 229 had a 'Winning Number' 13 and ticket 228 had a 'Your Number' 13 on top of the $25,000. This is very common by the way with the way these instant tickets work. It's set up this way to make you think you are really close to winning....just one off.

Feeling frustrated this person probably thought, 'if only the Winning Number from this ticket was on the next ticket, it would be a winner.' It's wishful thinking.

Here is where splicing the two tickets came into play. However, I'm 100% sure if you scanned the bar code at any retailer, it will not validate.

It's nice to dream though. :)

LckyLary

A bunch of observations and questions here. (Thanks Todd)

The tear itself (other than the overlap!) is very convincing, if she did this herself it's hard to get the rough edges to look so close so maybe she had 2 tickets and tore both at the same time to get the tear to be similar. It's even possible she FOUND the torn tickets and matched up the wrong parts and thought she won and claimed the machine did it. Would explain the initial spending spree if true. (Camera tape would be handy.)

Maybe she'll confess and then do an Elicia Battle and become a female boxer.

Why fake a 25K ticket, why not fake a 150K ticket or more?

I'm planning to go up to NY and buy $6 of Blue Moon Bucks. That would be a hoot and a half if I won the 25K legitimately!

Always worth it to check the code. They probably did at the Claim Center.

four4me

In Maryland someone got paid on a torn ticket.

http://www.msla.state.md.us/

Raven62's avatarRaven62

Quote: Originally posted by Todd on Oct 23, 2007

Yes, there was.

Thanks, I thought so. As I recall he wound up before the Judge. It'll be interesting to see how this one plays out.

computerhead723's avatarcomputerhead723

Quote: Originally posted by Raven62 on Oct 23, 2007

The Ticket appears to be FAKE:

there  is  Two  big  reasons  this  is  not   a  valid  claim ;

the  Lletters   at  the  bottom  are  a  code  for  cash  payment  ;

25,000   would  be  something  like ( 25 thou  )  and  some  one  elese  notice  under t he  number 

9 -  the  word  is  fourty   as in  40.00.......look  at  number  28  it  says   thrity   for   30.00 :

reason  number   -3-  at  the   top  in  the  upper  left  hand  corner  there  is  another  code  of - M -

thats   a  sure  sign  of   a  looser   ticket  ;  M & P   ARE   ALWAYS  LOOSERS ;

THIS  CLAIM  IS  STRONG  FOR  THE  NEW  YORK  LOTTERY.......THEIR   SHOULD   BE   ONLY  -3 -  LETTERS   NOT   --4---   XPkM  ??????????   

duckman's avatarduckman

If the validation numbers don't match the computer records, it is not a winner, torn or not.

Most states will payout on torn tickets as long as the ticket validation codes are intact. Scratching off matching numbers on the front is there for "entertainment purposes only" and it is the vaildation codes which matter...

Todd's avatarTodd

Quote: Originally posted by Raven62 on Oct 23, 2007

Thanks, I thought so. As I recall he wound up before the Judge. It'll be interesting to see how this one plays out.

Yes, most interesting. 

KY Floyd's avatarKY Floyd

Quote: Originally posted by tntea on Oct 23, 2007

The Blue Moon Bucks ticket. The back of the Blue Moon Bucks ticket.

This is clearly two different tickets ..  the first numbers to indicate it the ticket numbers.  Front says ticket number 228 and the back says ticket number  023... Maybe off same row, but definitely two different tickets.

Right next to the (023) is the 228 that matches the front of the ticket.  The top and bottom don't match, but the fronts and backs in the picture are of the same upper and same lower pieces from different tickets.

numbergirly's avatarnumbergirly

Quote: Originally posted by tnlotto1 on Oct 23, 2007

i hadnt noticed that numbergirly you are right it is an obvious fraud when you look at that 40 and 10 part

Hi tnlotto1>>>can you believe the lawyer in this case. When it all comes out she may be forced to quit her job not only that but, who would want a lawyer as silly as that. You can sure tell she knows nothing about scratch tickets or, lottery for that matter. Other people in this forum picked up on other important points as well>>> the three little numbers at the bottom right hand corner and the losing letters on the ticket although, in Delaware if you win over $200.00 you would see odd letters on the ticket. This woman is lucky not to have to pay a $25,000 fine for fraud.

 

P.S. let me give you my pick for Delaware>>>it's 1995. I dreamed that someone told me to play that number just like that but, to only play it for $1.50 and no more>> not to mention that you may have giving me a winning number for Wed which is 4010 HA!HA!HA! can you tell that I am a true number player?.  GOOD LUCK

                                                                                                                numbergirly

csfb's avatarcsfb

I believe the lady's story.  She bought the tickets from a machine and the tickets came out torn.   

She honestly believed the torn tickets were two parts of a winning ticket, thus she taped the two halves together.  It was a foreseeable honest mistake on her part.   

Perhaps mistakes like this have happened in the past.  The machine may be defective and the lottery operators knew it, and yet they didn't do anything to correct the defect.  I would argue that it is gross negligence, to say the least, on the part of the lottery operators to continue taking the players' money, knowing fully well that the machine spews out torn tickets.

Did that gross negligence cause damage to the player?  Yes, at least $2.00 which was the price of the ticket. 

Is she entitled to the $25,000 prize?   Maybe.  If she can convince the judge that the prize was apparent on the face of the ticket;  that a reasonable person would be led to believe that the ticket was indeed a winner; and that the mistake was caused by the lottery's  gross negligence tantamount to fraud (a hard sell).  Written disclaimer of the lottery, notwithstanding.

She could also be entitled to other damages; afterall, she was subject to public ridicule by the lottery when she tried to claim the prize.Ponder

HiYoSilver

She needs to produce all parts of every ticket she bought. Most likely, one of the other tickets will be torn exactly like this one.

Here's what I think happened. She got home with the tickets and scratched a small portion to show it wasn't a winner and tore them in half. Her husband then tried to scratch them completely,but, put the two wrong pieces together. When they saw that it looked like a winner, greed took over.

The lawyer, living up to their sleazy reputation, did not use due diligence in investigating what constitutes a winning ticket. Their contract probably stipulates that they will get paid whether they win or lose, so they encouraged the people to press for a lawsuit.

As far as going out and spending almost half what she would collect, before collecting it, shows she needs the word "stupid" tattooed on her forehead.

Surge's avatarSurge

Quote: Originally posted by justxploring on Oct 23, 2007

Even if it isn't a fake and she is being sincere the following statement proves she's an idiot!

 

"Manzitto was so excited she spent some of the prize money before she even tried to collect. She dropped $700 on more lottery tickets, put $3,000 down on a new Lexus and promised her grandkids $1,000 apiece "

I Agree! 

 No kidding!  If she got a ticket that's cut in half, it should have been brought to the attention of the vendor.  A ticket cut directly in half would clearly match.  Crazy spending money before a winning ticket is even validated.

4thquarterbabe's avatar4thquarterbabe

PLEASE, it's call STUPID and thinking that somebody else is stupid.

I am not into scratch offs, but the first thing that i noticed, before reading other posts was that the 10.00, (i though they were tens instead of forties, actually, looking at it real close it looks like one of each, didn't match.  and i wasnt sure if there was susppose to be two lines under the  winning number box. but it didnt look right.  it is possible like some say that the machine may have cut the tickets, but in a hurry or not, address the issue before you leave the store.   Anyway, we know that the bar code tells all. Even with the bar code, if we can see the discrepancies on computer, i believe that STEVE WONDER OR ROY ORBESON could detect it in real life.  PLEASE GIVE ME A BREAK WITH THE EXCUSES FOR THS LADY.   

4thquarterbabe's avatar4thquarterbabe

CORRECTION:

Anyway, we know that the bar code tells all. Even WITHOUT  the bar code, if we can see the discrepancies on computer, i believe that STEVE WONDER OR ROY ORBESON could detect it in real life.  PLEASE GIVE ME A BREAK WITH THE EXCUSES FOR THIS LADY!!!   

Trained2beRich's avatarTrained2beRich

As I am reading this story...I am thinking this is a DUMB lady. How do you spend money before you get it? Promising her Gkids a grand each and a down payment on a lexus.  For some reason she feels entitled to the money. I hope she loses and has to pay court costs for both parties.

KyMystikal's avatarKyMystikal

Quote: Originally posted by csfb on Oct 24, 2007

I believe the lady's story.  She bought the tickets from a machine and the tickets came out torn.   

She honestly believed the torn tickets were two parts of a winning ticket, thus she taped the two halves together.  It was a foreseeable honest mistake on her part.   

Perhaps mistakes like this have happened in the past.  The machine may be defective and the lottery operators knew it, and yet they didn't do anything to correct the defect.  I would argue that it is gross negligence, to say the least, on the part of the lottery operators to continue taking the players' money, knowing fully well that the machine spews out torn tickets.

Did that gross negligence cause damage to the player?  Yes, at least $2.00 which was the price of the ticket. 

Is she entitled to the $25,000 prize?   Maybe.  If she can convince the judge that the prize was apparent on the face of the ticket;  that a reasonable person would be led to believe that the ticket was indeed a winner; and that the mistake was caused by the lottery's  gross negligence tantamount to fraud (a hard sell).  Written disclaimer of the lottery, notwithstanding.

She could also be entitled to other damages; afterall, she was subject to public ridicule by the lottery when she tried to claim the prize.Ponder

This sounds like a good option to what may have happened and I could believe this. It is obvious to me that it is two completely different tickets. Most of the posts have been about the numbers not matching and one was about the rules being doubled at the tear, but no one has said anything about the line under the box where the winning numbers to match are. That clearly shows that it is 2 different tickets. I just don't understand why they didn't they scan the barcode to see if it was a winner and if they did and it said it was a losing ticket why she didn't believe it. It's not like she is in Indiana or Tennessee, she should be able to trust the computers there to tell her it is a winner or loser. Oh and about the spent money that was foolish. It kind of reminds me of a episode of the tv show "Martin" when he won the lottery and bought a fur coats and a whole bunch of things then later found out that about 10 or more other people also won and his prize wasn't that much. She should be able to get her $3000 for the down payment for the Lexus back if she hasn't got the car yet and the $1000 per grand child was promised so it hasn't been spent. The $700 for lottery was lost and maybe more is the state takes her to court. I'm sure that if they investigate and find that it was a simple mistake as csfb said nothing will happen to her.

justxploring's avatarjustxploring

csfb writes "I believe the lady's story.  She bought the tickets from a machine and the tickets came out torn."   

You might be correct.  I have no idea if she is telling the truth.  I also agree that her picture shouldn't be in the paper, but perhaps it was she who wanted the publicity, not the lottery.  I'm guessing they want to keep these matters quiet because it hurts business if people lose faith in its integrity.  I usually don't call any person an idiot.  Unfortunately, this is the internet and these stories are published for our opinions.  I don't know the lady, and it's not my place to judge her. However, she only won $25,000 less taxes and went out on a shopping spree. Maybe it was a used Lexus.  My point was, if someone has bills to pay, I can see her running out and taking care of debts, but going out the next day to buy a car, spending another $700, etc., makes her a fool in my humble opinion.  Also, if that happened to me, I'd immediately ask for a store manager to verify the ticket's validity.  I won't accept a badly torn bill from a cashier, especially if it's been taped, but we're all different. 

RJOh's avatarRJOh

This situation brings up a potential problematic scenario.  What happens if one of the halves was actually part of a winning ticket and the other half was bought by someone else?  Would the person who erroneously showed up to claim a prize gets the whole prize or would an effort be made to find the owner of the other half and split the prize?

Wintariofan

Defintely a fake, she should have noticed, 10 and 40 as the others were saying.  Looks good on her.   Some people still don't triple check their tickets.   I know if I had won, I'd be scratching every latex area, totally making sure it all matched.   I also would have the store validate it first and then take winning prize form to lottery offices.  Save me $700 and the gas ...  

gina777

This woman is an idiot. How much did she think she would get after taxes anyway. This is clearly fraud and they should press charges.

Guest

Quote: Originally posted by RJOh on Oct 24, 2007

This situation brings up a potential problematic scenario.  What happens if one of the halves was actually part of a winning ticket and the other half was bought by someone else?  Would the person who erroneously showed up to claim a prize gets the whole prize or would an effort be made to find the owner of the other half and split the prize?

The person who had the 1/2 of the ticket with the barcode on it would be proclaimed the winner and paid.The other person might or might not be refunded the price of the ticket.Most states allow the lottery to pay "only the price of the ticket" if there is a dispute.

KY Floyd's avatarKY Floyd

Quote: Originally posted by csfb on Oct 24, 2007

I believe the lady's story.  She bought the tickets from a machine and the tickets came out torn.   

She honestly believed the torn tickets were two parts of a winning ticket, thus she taped the two halves together.  It was a foreseeable honest mistake on her part.   

Perhaps mistakes like this have happened in the past.  The machine may be defective and the lottery operators knew it, and yet they didn't do anything to correct the defect.  I would argue that it is gross negligence, to say the least, on the part of the lottery operators to continue taking the players' money, knowing fully well that the machine spews out torn tickets.

Did that gross negligence cause damage to the player?  Yes, at least $2.00 which was the price of the ticket. 

Is she entitled to the $25,000 prize?   Maybe.  If she can convince the judge that the prize was apparent on the face of the ticket;  that a reasonable person would be led to believe that the ticket was indeed a winner; and that the mistake was caused by the lottery's  gross negligence tantamount to fraud (a hard sell).  Written disclaimer of the lottery, notwithstanding.

She could also be entitled to other damages; afterall, she was subject to public ridicule by the lottery when she tried to claim the prize.Ponder

I've got no problem believing her story (though I then have to assume she's not very bright), but that doesn't mean she's entitled to anything more than a new ticket even if she truly believes she has a winning ticket. She may be missing part of the ticket, but the barcode is enough to determine if it's a winner or not. As far as the other comment about trusting the computers, that's exactly how retailers validate tickets, and the scanner won't know that part of the ticket is missing. I'll note that it's interesting to see nearly universal agreement about the barcode when the ticket is obviously fake, but in cases where a legitimate ticket looks like a winner most people think it should be paid despite a barcode that identifies it as a loser. I'm guessing that's why the lottery has pointed out that the ticket is obviously not real, rather than relying on the barcode.

Even though the barcode cleary shows that it's a losing ticket it would be fair for the lottery to give her another ticket, since it's also an obviously damaged ticket. Even if the machine is known to occasionaly damage a ticket, there's absolutely nothing to indicate that there's any negligence at all, and certainly not gross negligence. Mechancial equipment is never 100% reliable, and it's clear that the lottery's only responsibility is to make sure that the player recieves a valid ticket. If the first one is defective for some reason the only required remedy is to replace it with a good one.

RJOh's avatarRJOh

"Manzitto's lawyer, Arnold, doesn't dispute that the colored lines don't match, but argued that that is how the ticket was sold."

Patricia Manzitto and her lawyer know the ticket is not a winning ticket but they are trying to make an argument similar to that of a Florida woman two years ago when she bought a scratch-off on which a number hadn't been completely printed and matched another one on her ticket for $250K. https://www.lotterypost.com/news/117317  Even though the words under the numbers described two different numbers she argued that since her ticket on first glance could be mistaken for a winner, it should be treated as one.

Manzitto's lawyer is arguing that if the two halves sold to her client could be made to look like a winner on first glance then it should be treated as one.  That's a losing argument every time it's made, courts have said that lotteries don't have to reward people who can prove they they really thought they won when they really didn't even if it's not their fault.

LckyLary

I doubt the part of the story about the MACHINE tearing the ticket because if she bought $6 so 3 tkts came out, in order to have mismatching halves from 2 different tickets then at least 2 came out torn. Not sure how that would happen but maybe it could. It's also possible to pull it sideways when it is sticking 1/2 out. IN general I avoid those dispensers because the tickets are sometimes older ones where the top prizes might have been won already. I'd have gone to a manager immediately and showed thm. It's odd that she took the torn ticket(s) home and THEN checked? And yes the barcode is the final say in any case. Some places have a self-serve kiosk where you can scan them yourself.

We are assuming (people in NY would know) do the tickets come out vertical or horizontal? What happens IF the ticket is torn through the barcode?

computerhead723's avatarcomputerhead723

Quote: Originally posted by justxploring on Oct 24, 2007

csfb writes "I believe the lady's story.  She bought the tickets from a machine and the tickets came out torn."   

You might be correct.  I have no idea if she is telling the truth.  I also agree that her picture shouldn't be in the paper, but perhaps it was she who wanted the publicity, not the lottery.  I'm guessing they want to keep these matters quiet because it hurts business if people lose faith in its integrity.  I usually don't call any person an idiot.  Unfortunately, this is the internet and these stories are published for our opinions.  I don't know the lady, and it's not my place to judge her. However, she only won $25,000 less taxes and went out on a shopping spree. Maybe it was a used Lexus.  My point was, if someone has bills to pay, I can see her running out and taking care of debts, but going out the next day to buy a car, spending another $700, etc., makes her a fool in my humble opinion.  Also, if that happened to me, I'd immediately ask for a store manager to verify the ticket's validity.  I won't accept a badly torn bill from a cashier, especially if it's been taped, but we're all different. 

Thank-you  for  saying  this  about  that  lady  ...we  are  Professional  players  and  she  is  nott  as  well  informed  as  we  are  here   on  LP  ;

Codes  , were  never  a  consideration  for  this  grandmother, who  promised  her  grandkids  a  1000 ea.  that  does  not  sound  like  a  liar  to  me .....she  will  be   better   and  more  informed  player  after  this  and  her  case  wont  go   un-noticed :

HER  FIRST  THOUGHT  WAS  TO  TRUST  THE  SYSTEM  ,JUST  LIKE  MILLIONS  OF  PEOPLE  WHO   TRUSTED  THE  911  COMMISSION ,ONLY  TO  FIND  OUT  LATTER  THE  FACTS  JUST   DON'T   ADD  UP ;

BEING  doubtfull  is  healthy medicine ;  She  failed  to  first  double  check  her  evidence that  being, the  25,000.00  ticket  just  in  case  the  ripped  ticket  was  not  accepted;

computerhead723's avatarcomputerhead723

Quote: Originally posted by Todd on Oct 23, 2007

Yes, most interesting. 

TODD   what's  with  the    pictures   of  the   sea  creature???///

I  could   see - PSYKOMO  -  doing  that ;

 but  , I  don't  get  it  and  its  making  me  afraid  to  go in the   water ; 

Todd's avatarTodd

Quote: Originally posted by computerhead723 on Oct 24, 2007

TODD   what's  with  the    pictures   of  the   sea  creature???///

I  could   see - PSYKOMO  -  doing  that ;

 but  , I  don't  get  it  and  its  making  me  afraid  to  go in the   water ; 

For those who don't get the subtle message, my pictures had as much relevancy to what I was posting as reposting the ticket images had in the messages of the person I was responding to.

Stack47

Quote: Originally posted by computerhead723 on Oct 24, 2007

Thank-you  for  saying  this  about  that  lady  ...we  are  Professional  players  and  she  is  nott  as  well  informed  as  we  are  here   on  LP  ;

Codes  , were  never  a  consideration  for  this  grandmother, who  promised  her  grandkids  a  1000 ea.  that  does  not  sound  like  a  liar  to  me .....she  will  be   better   and  more  informed  player  after  this  and  her  case  wont  go   un-noticed :

HER  FIRST  THOUGHT  WAS  TO  TRUST  THE  SYSTEM  ,JUST  LIKE  MILLIONS  OF  PEOPLE  WHO   TRUSTED  THE  911  COMMISSION ,ONLY  TO  FIND  OUT  LATTER  THE  FACTS  JUST   DON'T   ADD  UP ;

BEING  doubtfull  is  healthy medicine ;  She  failed  to  first  double  check  her  evidence that  being, the  25,000.00  ticket  just  in  case  the  ripped  ticket  was  not  accepted;

"we  are  Professional  players and she  is  nott  as  well  informed  as  we  are  here   on  LP  ;

I seriously doubt that you or anybody else makes a living playing the lottery but it's true that LP members should know enough not to tape two halves from two different tickets together whether the ticket dispenser cut them or not. If you look closely, you'll notice when she taped them, she matched up the back side.

Anybody over 21 can buy a lottery ticket and there are no rules saying they actually have to know what they're buying. It's like when you see a long line at the checkout counter and hear "price check on aisle 9" because somebody had to grab the only item without a price on it.

 "HER  FIRST  THOUGHT  WAS  TO  TRUST  THE  SYSTEM  ,"

Or more like "try to beat" the system. Do you honestly believe that was one ticket cut accidentally?

"JUST  LIKE  MILLIONS  OF  PEOPLE  WHO   TRUSTED  THE  911  COMMISSION ,ONLY  TO  FIND  OUT  LATTER  THE  FACTS  JUST   DON'T   ADD  UP ;

Who shot JR Ewing?

Stack47

Quote: Originally posted by RJOh on Oct 24, 2007

"Manzitto's lawyer, Arnold, doesn't dispute that the colored lines don't match, but argued that that is how the ticket was sold."

Patricia Manzitto and her lawyer know the ticket is not a winning ticket but they are trying to make an argument similar to that of a Florida woman two years ago when she bought a scratch-off on which a number hadn't been completely printed and matched another one on her ticket for $250K. https://www.lotterypost.com/news/117317  Even though the words under the numbers described two different numbers she argued that since her ticket on first glance could be mistaken for a winner, it should be treated as one.

Manzitto's lawyer is arguing that if the two halves sold to her client could be made to look like a winner on first glance then it should be treated as one.  That's a losing argument every time it's made, courts have said that lotteries don't have to reward people who can prove they they really thought they won when they really didn't even if it's not their fault.

"Patricia Manzitto and her lawyer know the ticket is not a winning ticket but they are trying to make an argument similar to that of a Florida woman two years ago when she bought a scratch-off on which a number hadn't been completely printed and matched another one on her ticket for $250K."

Was that the case where the "3" was scratched off from "13" to make it look like a "1"? 

"Manzitto's lawyer is arguing that if the two halves sold to her client could be made to look like a winner on first glance then it should be treated as one."

Wonder what Manzitto will argue if his client is charged with fraud for cutting and taping two losing tickets together and trying to claim it as a winner?

computerhead723's avatarcomputerhead723

Quote: Originally posted by computerhead723 on Oct 24, 2007

TODD   what's  with  the    pictures   of  the   sea  creature???///

I  could   see - PSYKOMO  -  doing  that ;

 but  , I  don't  get  it  and  its  making  me  afraid  to  go in the   water ; 

Todd  how  did  you  get  that  ticket  copy??/ Thats   good   reporting  I  have  never  seen  a  TV  or  newspaper  account  of  this  story.......this   woman  pride  was  hurt  so  she   Sued  the  Lottery; 

LckyLary

The ticket image was online on one of the News sites, at least the one I got. I first heard this mentioned on the "Court of Kuby" segment on 770WABC radio, and then it appeared on 7online and 1010WINS along with a picture of the actual ticket. I told Todd about it and then it later also appeared on Eyewitness News.

I am eagerly awaiting the follow-up (hopefully) of what really happened.

Todd's avatarTodd

Quote: Originally posted by computerhead723 on Oct 25, 2007

Todd  how  did  you  get  that  ticket  copy??/ Thats   good   reporting  I  have  never  seen  a  TV  or  newspaper  account  of  this  story.......this   woman  pride  was  hurt  so  she   Sued  the  Lottery; 

Why, thank you.  ("good reporting")

Lots of information is out there, but it requires some digging. 

For stories like this one, which are fairly complex, I usually research the story using several different sources, and sometimes that can dig up info and images that are not covered in the national news media.

Todd's avatarTodd

Quote: Originally posted by LckyLary on Oct 25, 2007

The ticket image was online on one of the News sites, at least the one I got. I first heard this mentioned on the "Court of Kuby" segment on 770WABC radio, and then it appeared on 7online and 1010WINS along with a picture of the actual ticket. I told Todd about it and then it later also appeared on Eyewitness News.

I am eagerly awaiting the follow-up (hopefully) of what really happened.

Did you know that Kuby is going bye-bye?  From what I understand, Imus is taking the morning slot, and Curtis and John Gambling are teaming up after that.

computerhead723's avatarcomputerhead723

Quote: Originally posted by Stack47 on Oct 25, 2007

"we  are  Professional  players and she  is  nott  as  well  informed  as  we  are  here   on  LP  ;

I seriously doubt that you or anybody else makes a living playing the lottery but it's true that LP members should know enough not to tape two halves from two different tickets together whether the ticket dispenser cut them or not. If you look closely, you'll notice when she taped them, she matched up the back side.

Anybody over 21 can buy a lottery ticket and there are no rules saying they actually have to know what they're buying. It's like when you see a long line at the checkout counter and hear "price check on aisle 9" because somebody had to grab the only item without a price on it.

 "HER  FIRST  THOUGHT  WAS  TO  TRUST  THE  SYSTEM  ,"

Or more like "try to beat" the system. Do you honestly believe that was one ticket cut accidentally?

"JUST  LIKE  MILLIONS  OF  PEOPLE  WHO   TRUSTED  THE  911  COMMISSION ,ONLY  TO  FIND  OUT  LATTER  THE  FACTS  JUST   DON'T   ADD  UP ;

Who shot JR Ewing?

Well  ,  first  you  got  the  facts  a  little  twisted....being  a  Professional  does  not  only  mean  you  make  a  living  playing  the  lottery;

Sometimes  its  ...SO  long  as  I  live  Iwill  play  the  lottery ...and  I  use  resources  that  regular  everyday  people  never   have  seen  this  web  site  nor  use  my  new  power system  ..its  my  way  of  life  ..lotery  before  my  mourning  coffee  and  lotttery  before  I  go  to  sleep  at  night ,studing  the  Board ....who  was  Jr EWING ???before  my  time ???

 

 

Hit With Stick             Dunk

Stack47

Quote: Originally posted by computerhead723 on Oct 27, 2007

Well  ,  first  you  got  the  facts  a  little  twisted....being  a  Professional  does  not  only  mean  you  make  a  living  playing  the  lottery;

Sometimes  its  ...SO  long  as  I  live  Iwill  play  the  lottery ...and  I  use  resources  that  regular  everyday  people  never   have  seen  this  web  site  nor  use  my  new  power system  ..its  my  way  of  life  ..lotery  before  my  mourning  coffee  and  lotttery  before  I  go  to  sleep  at  night ,studing  the  Board ....who  was  Jr EWING ???before  my  time ???

 

 

Hit With Stick             Dunk

"being  a  Professional  does  not  only  mean  you  make  a  living  playing  the  lottery;"

I suppose you could define a professional as an expert in their field and in skill games like Poker I would agree. Where is the skill when 70% of Mega Millions and Powerball jackpot winners bought QPs?

"its  my  way  of  life  ..lotery  before  my  mourning  coffee  and  lotttery  before  I  go  to  sleep  at  night ,studing  the  Board "

That could also define obsession.

"who  was  Jr EWING ???"

JR was a character in a TV mini-series called Dallas that was known for its season ending cliffhangers. You were talking about conspiracies and cover-ups and people were trying to figure out "who shot JR?" for months.

(edited to add: Kristen)

LckyLary

UGH! John Gambling is T-H-E most BOOoooooooring guy on all of radio except for maybe whatshisname Bob Grant. I'd be willing to trade John Gambling taking a slow boat to China in exchange to allow computerized drawing in nj. I LIKE Mr. Kuby even though he's Liberal, at least he is INTERESTING and funny. Gambling says "be that as it may" and other dull lingo and rushes people to get to his grating commercials. And he's so obsessed about illegal immigration that he sounds like a closet racist. If they do this they can expect many angry e-mails and boycotts! And my complaints to WABC go unanswered except that Kuby always writes back when I have questions. I'd rather have Mark Levin in the morning and shove Gambling to around midnight when nobody's listening, he could be a great sleep aid! Who shot my enthusiasm?

Be that as it may, I got my set of 3 Blue Moon Bucks scratch-off tickets. They are not torn yet, but I'm going to experiment with 2 losing tickets to see if I put 2 different halves together what it looks like. But first I have to write another angry e-mail to WABC.

KyMystikal's avatarKyMystikal

Quote: Originally posted by Stack47 on Oct 27, 2007

"being  a  Professional  does  not  only  mean  you  make  a  living  playing  the  lottery;"

I suppose you could define a professional as an expert in their field and in skill games like Poker I would agree. Where is the skill when 70% of Mega Millions and Powerball jackpot winners bought QPs?

"its  my  way  of  life  ..lotery  before  my  mourning  coffee  and  lotttery  before  I  go  to  sleep  at  night ,studing  the  Board "

That could also define obsession.

"who  was  Jr EWING ???"

JR was a character in a TV mini-series called Dallas that was known for its season ending cliffhangers. You were talking about conspiracies and cover-ups and people were trying to figure out "who shot JR?" for months.

(edited to add: Kristen)

"being  a  Professional  does  not  only  mean  you  make  a  living  playing  the  lottery;"

I suppose you could define a professional as an expert in their field and in skill games like Poker I would agree. Where is the skill when 70% of Mega Millions and Powerball jackpot winners bought QPs? 

I'm curious since you brought up the percentages of QP winners for Powerball and Mega Millions. Does anyone have the percentages for Pick 3 and Pick 4 QP's verses Player own picked numbers winning ticket won, since that seems to be what most people are posting predictions for on here? I'm thinking that the percentages won't be anything like those of the big jackpot games.

 

"its  my  way  of  life  ..lotery  before  my  mourning  coffee  and  lotttery  before  I  go  to  sleep  at  night ,studing  the  Board "

That could also define obsession.

A friend of mine does these things but I didn't think it was a obsession until he told me he dreams of lottery numbers every night.

 

"who  was  Jr EWING ???"

JR was a character in a TV mini-series called Dallas that was known for its season ending cliffhangers. You were talking about conspiracies and cover-ups and people were trying to figure out "who shot JR?" for months.

Maybe you should have used " Who shot Mr. Burns" instead.Smile

OldSchoolPa's avatarOldSchoolPa

Everyone seems to be focused in on the fake ticket when the actual lesson to be learned here is to not "spend" or precommit any lottery winnings until one actually has the cash in one's account.  Oh there are two lessons actually.  The other is to not play scratch ifs.

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