Welcome Guest
Log In | Register )
You last visited January 22, 2017, 5:30 am
All times shown are
Eastern Time (GMT-5:00)

From Riches To Rags

Topic closed. 24 replies. Last post 8 years ago by dingo.

Page 1 of 2
PrintE-mailLink
Bondi Junction
Australia
Member #57242
December 24, 2007
1102 Posts
Offline
Posted: December 20, 2008, 6:15 pm - IP Logged

We all like reading about people who struck it rick. But reading about the Madoff allegations, I was wondering what it must be like to be to loose so mush money like that. The people who invested were not your average Joe, but very wealth people. After saving and investing for years, what must it be like to loose all or large part of your wealth overnight?

    sfilippo's avatar - skull
    Oklahoma
    United States
    Member #33770
    February 24, 2006
    3146 Posts
    Offline
    Posted: December 21, 2008, 1:10 am - IP Logged

    My take is - Capitalism works great for about 75 years. Once the cash finds it's way to the top though, everything just locks up. Those that could see it coming just made it worse by starting a feeding frenzy prior to this mess. Now, the Federal Reserve can't even entice the banks to loan money by lowering interest rates. If the Feds just print more cash, inflation kicks into high gear, and we definitely don't want that!

    Cash is supposed to flow from the working man into the economy and then back out again and over and over again.

    What has happened is most of the cash has made it's way from the working man into the hands of the Elite Greed Mongers and it's not moving back out again.

    Let's face it, these Elite Greed Mongers have shifted their wealth outside of the United States and our economy along with it in order to protect their status quo.

    The Government's plan is to re-establish our lost economy by replacing all the wealth that has dissappeared - in the order of Trillions of dollars, but if the Elite are still going to hold their positions, then they will get all that money once again. Over-Sight and Regulations won't work either because the Government just gave themselves a very nice pay increase despite all that is going wrong right now. Corruption is rampant and this feeding frenzy will most likely continue.

    On a happier note, Banks and Mortgage companies should become more and more reluctant to forclose on properties, to give buyers more time to catch up on payments rather than take possession of properties.

    Full Government control is what seems to be ahead.

    Smiley Steve

      psykomo's avatar - animal shark.jpg

      United States
      Member #4877
      May 30, 2004
      5145 Posts
      Offline
      Posted: December 21, 2008, 3:07 am - IP Logged

      My take is - Capitalism works great for about 75 years. Once the cash finds it's way to the top though, everything just locks up. Those that could see it coming just made it worse by starting a feeding frenzy prior to this mess. Now, the Federal Reserve can't even entice the banks to loan money by lowering interest rates. If the Feds just print more cash, inflation kicks into high gear, and we definitely don't want that!

      Cash is supposed to flow from the working man into the economy and then back out again and over and over again.

      What has happened is most of the cash has made it's way from the working man into the hands of the Elite Greed Mongers and it's not moving back out again.

      Let's face it, these Elite Greed Mongers have shifted their wealth outside of the United States and our economy along with it in order to protect their status quo.

      The Government's plan is to re-establish our lost economy by replacing all the wealth that has dissappeared - in the order of Trillions of dollars, but if the Elite are still going to hold their positions, then they will get all that money once again. Over-Sight and Regulations won't work either because the Government just gave themselves a very nice pay increase despite all that is going wrong right now. Corruption is rampant and this feeding frenzy will most likely continue.

      On a happier note, Banks and Mortgage companies should become more and more reluctant to forclose on properties, to give buyers more time to catch up on payments rather than take possession of properties.

      Full Government control is what seems to be ahead.

      WOW>WOW>sfilppo:

      psyko & ALL need-"U"!!!!!!

      where were U 1/2008!!!!!!

      What kinka car's can we EXPECT 2 drive??????????????

      Do U THINK we will ALL ride BUS'es until D govement

      CRUSHE'SSSSSeeeeeeeeesssssssALL.>SUV'ssssssssss?

      THEN D big-3 will copy the 2-seater SMART-CAR!!!!!

      sold & sell'g now 4 $16,000 but in 2020 we PAY!!!!!!

      $50,000 per copy & BENZ of EUROPE get's $10,000

      fee 2 go back 2 D WORLD>>>>>goverment!!!!!!!!!!!

      (note: 4 all DUMBO's like PSYKO>>>>>>>>>>>)!!!

      DAMLER-BENZ just INTRO'd the car of UR FUTURE!

      THIS was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2008 (early) 2008!

      NOW>PSYKO>CAN>SEE>(upper cast-smart CAR!!)

      (RICH-CAST> almost anything they DESIRE!!!!!!!!!!)

      (RULING-CAST>ANYTHING THEY> "WISH"!!!!!!!!!!)

      TRANSLATION:

      U must WIN a JACKPOT>>>>>>>>S@@N!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      ??? ask yourself??? do U own a SMART CAR today?

      IF U answer "YES">>>>>I DO>>>>>>PSYKO!!!!!!!

      ALL (U)>>> "TELL">>>>PSYKO>>>>>what U-all>

      THINK  >>> of DUMBO>>PSYKO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      LOL.....work SMART>>>>2009 & Happy New year!

      PSYKOMO

        sfilippo's avatar - skull
        Oklahoma
        United States
        Member #33770
        February 24, 2006
        3146 Posts
        Offline
        Posted: December 21, 2008, 9:17 am - IP Logged

        I don't think tiny cars are the answer, PSYKOMO.

        A Govenment that actually serves it's people rather than themselves might work.

        Smiley Steve

          rcbbuckeye's avatar - Lottery-043.jpg
          Texas
          United States
          Member #55889
          October 23, 2007
          5763 Posts
          Offline
          Posted: December 21, 2008, 9:51 am - IP Logged

          I don't think tiny cars are the answer, PSYKOMO.

          A Govenment that actually serves it's people rather than themselves might work.

          The fact that you could decipher Psyko is evidence that you are pretty intelligent.

          And you are right, a government that serves its people rather than themselves would get things on track. Why is it that the common people can figure that out?

          Like the old beer commercial said, "Why ask why?"

            sfilippo's avatar - skull
            Oklahoma
            United States
            Member #33770
            February 24, 2006
            3146 Posts
            Offline
            Posted: December 21, 2008, 2:11 pm - IP Logged

            The fact that you could decipher Psyko is evidence that you are pretty intelligent.

            And you are right, a government that serves its people rather than themselves would get things on track. Why is it that the common people can figure that out?

            Like the old beer commercial said, "Why ask why?"

            Ha... I don't know what PSYKOMO was trying to say exactly. Something about cars, I guess.

            The big 3 and all of those employees connected to them are definitely an over-night disaster waiting to happen, but the bulk of industry is small business. Choking that sector with higher taxes in order to save the giants of industry isn't the solution either, but that's probably what will happen anyway.

            It might serve to keep the big 3 going in the short run, but once people have had enough, they will start pushing back.

            - a passive tax revolt as predicted by Gerald Celente.

            I would advise against that at all costs!

            Smiley Steve

              Pogo's avatar - wfl
              NC
              United States
              Member #29378
              January 1, 2006
              552 Posts
              Offline
              Posted: December 21, 2008, 2:15 pm - IP Logged

              I don't think tiny cars are the answer, PSYKOMO.

              A Govenment that actually serves it's people rather than themselves might work.

              WOW! - Took the words out of my mouth... Agree With All That - Pogo

                grengrad's avatar - nw rogue.jpg
                Raleigh
                United States
                Member #49057
                January 17, 2007
                172 Posts
                Offline
                Posted: December 22, 2008, 12:16 pm - IP Logged

                Sfilippo,

                You are exactly right, and the reason we have had 60 years of prosperity is because everyone was taxed to death during world war ii. Americans who earned as little as $500 per year paid income tax at a 23 percent rate, while those who earned more than $1 million per year paid a 94 percent rate. We basically had socialism during the 1940s, which redistributed wealth, and then allowed 60 years of capitalism.

                William Greider said that the economy is like a poker game. He said that it is human nature to want to get all of the chips, but noted that - if one person does get all of the chips - the game ends. We have reached a situation in America where very very few people have the chips, and no one is willing to lend anyone more chips to keep playing the game.



                We need another redistribution of wealth to reset the playing field. So far we have done nothing to do that. Bailing out financial institutions is just giving more money to the problem. Massive inflation and public works to raise the average wage of the middle class might do the trick, but that comes with enormous pain.

                I really question the morality of doing these things, but I don't think we can continue on our current course without some major changes.

                My dad has been telling me this was where our economy was headed for the last 10 years. I always thought we would find a way to keep things going as is. My first sign we were SOL was March 2007 when I heard a bunch of real estate people talking on a flight back from Vegas about how rampant corruption was in loans and how the whole market was going to collapse. I was nervous then, but I still held on thinking we would figure it out. It was not until I saw the market go down after the bailout passed that I realized how deeply introuble we were. At one point I was down 35% this year, but I am now up 21%, from betting against the country I love. Pretty sad.

                I still think that on a 20 year scale America is a good investment, but I am very bearish on a 6-60 month scale, depending primarily on how strong Obama's efforts are to redistribute wealth through social programs.

                  Littleoldlady's avatar - basket
                  Clarksville
                  United States
                  Member #487
                  July 15, 2002
                  17638 Posts
                  Offline
                  Posted: December 22, 2008, 12:29 pm - IP Logged

                  I personally think that if our economy is ever going to get back on it's feet, common everday working people have to have money to spend.  They are the ones who make wealth for the upper groups. They buy cars, clothes, food, etc.  If they don't have ANY money to spend on things then everything stops.  The poor worker who works for 7.00 per hour has no buying power.  He needs to make more money.  He is just surviving.  after they take out Fed Income Taxes, SS and Medicare taxes, etc.  he has NO disposable income. Heaven help him if he has children to feed. 

                  If you know your number is going to hit, have patience and then KILL IT!

                  You never know when you will get another hit.

                    cosmotravis's avatar - f ssr.jpg

                    United States
                    Member #65357
                    September 25, 2008
                    96 Posts
                    Offline
                    Posted: December 23, 2008, 1:25 am - IP Logged

                    good post gren.  one of my friends got involved with one of those scam loans from a fed bank.  He ended up getting to keep a 500k house and 250k in the bank with nothing to owe.    after finding out how this worked, i no longer look upto people with lots of money.  it's not what you know, it's who you know. 

                      sfilippo's avatar - skull
                      Oklahoma
                      United States
                      Member #33770
                      February 24, 2006
                      3146 Posts
                      Offline
                      Posted: December 23, 2008, 5:43 am - IP Logged

                      Well said, grengrad and LittleoLady.

                      I like the poker player analogy.

                      I'm close to the real estate business. My wife and sister both do that. I've walked through alot of empty houses the last couple of years, just peeking at the upper-class way of life or what it used to be anyway. There are some really strange floorplans out there. Makes me wonder what the builders were smoking when they designed them.

                      My hope is that Obama and his team can ignite this economy early on. He seems to be the right man for the job.

                      Smiley Steve

                        rcbbuckeye's avatar - Lottery-043.jpg
                        Texas
                        United States
                        Member #55889
                        October 23, 2007
                        5763 Posts
                        Offline
                        Posted: December 23, 2008, 9:54 am - IP Logged

                        I personally think that if our economy is ever going to get back on it's feet, common everday working people have to have money to spend.  They are the ones who make wealth for the upper groups. They buy cars, clothes, food, etc.  If they don't have ANY money to spend on things then everything stops.  The poor worker who works for 7.00 per hour has no buying power.  He needs to make more money.  He is just surviving.  after they take out Fed Income Taxes, SS and Medicare taxes, etc.  he has NO disposable income. Heaven help him if he has children to feed. 

                        Exactly right!

                        I sell furniture for a living. For the most part, the first half of 2008 was good, I made money because people were out buying. From June until about the beginning of December it has been not so good. People quit spending. So far this month it's been better. But I fear for 2009.

                        We are a consumer society. If people can't or won't spend, then everything collapses. And a big part of the problem is that we have lost a tremendous amount of manufacturing jobs. Look, not everyone can sell for a living, and not everyone can work at a Walmart. We need to start making things again, instead of shipping those jobs overseas.

                        I feel very fortunate to be living in Tx right now. It's not nearly as bad here as other parts of the country. I have a friend who sells furniture in Ohio for a family run store. Been there for years and they are barely hanging on. Her husband lost his job and now works in Walmart for a fraction of his old income.

                        If they let the automakers go down, the pain to our economy will be unbelievable. It won't be just the autoworkers, it will be all the businesses that are tied to the auto industry that goes too. I don't think the idiots in Washington quite get that.

                          Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
                          Chief Bottle Washer
                          New Jersey
                          United States
                          Member #1
                          May 31, 2000
                          23349 Posts
                          Online
                          Posted: December 23, 2008, 10:01 am - IP Logged

                          I don't think tiny cars are the answer, PSYKOMO.

                          A Govenment that actually serves it's people rather than themselves might work.

                          I Agree!  How about that nice little pay raise they gave themselves?  Pretty sweet to be elected "ruler", eh?

                           

                          Check the State Lottery Report Card
                          What grade did your lottery earn?

                           

                          Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
                          Help eliminate computerized drawings!

                            Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
                            Chief Bottle Washer
                            New Jersey
                            United States
                            Member #1
                            May 31, 2000
                            23349 Posts
                            Online
                            Posted: December 23, 2008, 10:04 am - IP Logged

                            Well said, grengrad and LittleoLady.

                            I like the poker player analogy.

                            I'm close to the real estate business. My wife and sister both do that. I've walked through alot of empty houses the last couple of years, just peeking at the upper-class way of life or what it used to be anyway. There are some really strange floorplans out there. Makes me wonder what the builders were smoking when they designed them.

                            My hope is that Obama and his team can ignite this economy early on. He seems to be the right man for the job.

                            I'm with you on your other comment, but this one I'm not so sure about.  Historically, there is certainly no evidence to show this kind of thing works.  I guess we'll all find out if the joke's on us.

                             

                            Check the State Lottery Report Card
                            What grade did your lottery earn?

                             

                            Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
                            Help eliminate computerized drawings!

                              grengrad's avatar - nw rogue.jpg
                              Raleigh
                              United States
                              Member #49057
                              January 17, 2007
                              172 Posts
                              Offline
                              Posted: December 23, 2008, 10:10 am - IP Logged

                              The US automakers are mostly to blame for the situation they are in. I do not think anyone in America, other than GM's board, would have agreed that making less and less fuel efficient vehicles, while the wildly successful Japanese cars continued to get better and better mileage, was a good idea. That said, we really cannot afford to let them go under right now.

                              $700 Billion from TARP and $2,000 Billion from Federal Reserve in lending to financial firms... no problem. Bonuses and vacations for the executives and employees who's failed strategies sank their companies... no problem.

                              $15-35 Billion to automakers??? Unacceptable. United Auto Workers making a decent middle class wage??? Unacceptable. 

                              Notice any double standards? A lot (not all) of the politicians Washington do not care about the average man.