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Determinism vs Randomness and Chance

Topic closed. 72 replies. Last post 6 years ago by Stack47.

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RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

United States
Member #59354
March 13, 2008
3968 Posts
Offline
Posted: February 24, 2011, 10:10 pm - IP Logged

Jimmy,

Inferior minds want to know:

Why do you continue to play Powerball and Megamillions twice weekly when YOU know the odds?

Why haven't YOU won?

With YOUR vast knowledge of the odds, and abilities to calculate the proper trajectory and foot pounds necessary to kill a bear with a thrown tic-tac, is it really asking too much for you win Powerball with a system YOU developed?

Have you tried buying a REAL ticket?

Is it possible to show you a 'favorite' complete anything, without receiving negative feedback?

Inferior minds are now in wait mode.

garyo1954

Jimmy is a "legend in his own mind."  Everything he has posted is common knowledge.  He searches

the web for some article that he feels will support his topic of the day which is also the source for his

topic of the day.  I am not nearly as absent minded as he thinks.   He feels that statistics rule the day

and overall I would agree.  One only needs to look at his analysis of maddogs challenge to see the 

effect that I have so many times tried to explain.  Notice that one player done very well but when 

averaged overall shows no more then the expected.  Consider the Law of large numbers how that 

in a large sample the outcomes will most always confirm the expected.  I have no problem with this

however this also assumes that the event is random.  The lottery is considered sufficiently random

and my idea of sufficiently is that it is somewhat less sufficient then belived.  I have been thinking

of starting another post concerning playing digits but won't until jimmy and I can come to a

agreement.  If he will give his word that he would stay away then I would make a second attemp

to explain the pro's and con's of using digits and I will also refrain from posting in his topics.  My

digit system post was posted just to give others another method to select numbers.  I though

that some would try it and either use it or forget it.  Because I made the comment that I have had

success using it I came under attack.  This was my first public post and if I make another I will be

much more percise.


    United States
    Member #93947
    July 10, 2010
    2180 Posts
    Offline
    Posted: February 24, 2011, 10:35 pm - IP Logged

    Jimmy,

    Inferior minds want to know:

    Why do you continue to play Powerball and Megamillions twice weekly when YOU know the odds?

    Why haven't YOU won?

    With YOUR vast knowledge of the odds, and abilities to calculate the proper trajectory and foot pounds necessary to kill a bear with a thrown tic-tac, is it really asking too much for you win Powerball with a system YOU developed?

    Have you tried buying a REAL ticket?

    Is it possible to show you a 'favorite' complete anything, without receiving negative feedback?

    Inferior minds are now in wait mode.

    gary01954,

    Thanks for your honesty!  Smile

    Don't beat yourself up so much.

    The answer to your questions are really quite simple.  Pick-3 [000-999] games are expected to look this way:  If you play $1 on a straight daily, every 2 or 3 years you'll hit for $500.  If you spend more than that, you'll hit more often so just multply.  If you play box tickets, you'll hit more often, but the prizes will be proportionally less.  My backtests of 33+ years of the PA [000-999] lottery resulted in an average straight hit rate of 1 per 1000 draws, and this was true applying various TTT schemes as well as "systems" like betting on "yesterday's winner".  If you believe you have a way to beat these odds over years of play, I'm happy for you.  Play on.

    As for the Powerball, et al, the odds are actually WORSE than Pick-3, UNLESS you hit a 5/5 or a Jackpot!  Look at the summary of 2010 in my MadDog Challenge Topic.  (I know some here think these stats are worthless, but bear with me.)  If you exclude the possibility of winning a Jackpot, the Expected Value of a $1 Powerball ticket is only 17.4 ¢ ! The reason for this is that the lion's share of the money payed back to the winners is in the Jackpot, 32.5 ¢ .

    So, WHY would I play the Powerball?  If I spent all my gambling allotment on the PA Daily Number (Pick-3), unless one of Nicholas Taleb's "Black Swans" endowed me with an amazing string of 400 or more $500 hits before I die, I would have no hope of ever paying off my mortgage with a windfall, or in the case of a Jackpot, paying off all my kid's mortgages and starting a world tour! Simply put, I accept the lousy odds of the Powerball as my payment for my chance to win the Big One.  It allows me to dream!

    I'm sorry, but all I can say to those who think they've found a way for anyone to sustain winning streaks of small prizes to an extent that they can be relied upon as a source of income is, "Show us proof!"

    --Jimmy4164

    P.S.

    http://www.lotterypost.com/thread/222395/1913245

     
       Total Ticket Costs        $8,271,258
       Total Winnings            $1,772,590
       Overall Gain/Loss        -$6,498,668
     
                                Expected                        Actual
      Category                #Wins             ROI*              #Wins            ROI*
     
      0 WB + PB              133991            0.049             124791            0.045
      1 WB + PB               66990            0.032              64153            0.031
      2 WB + PB               10508            0.009               9275            0.008
      3 WB                    23037            0.019              27240            0.023
      3 WB + PB                 606            0.007                432            0.005
      4 WB                      435            0.005                428            0.005
      4 WB + PB                  11.438        0.014                  0            0.000
      5 WB                        1.610        0.039                  4            0.097
                                               -----                               -----
      Total (Excl Jackpot)                     0.174                               0.214
     
      JACKPOT**                   0.042        0.325                  0            0.000
     

     * ROI is The Amount Won Per Dollar Spent on Tickets.
    ** The Expected Jackpot used is $63,476,560 per Winning Ticket.
       This is an oversimplified shortcut.
       An In Depth discussion of Powerball Payouts can be found here:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powerball

      rcbbuckeye's avatar - Lottery-043.jpg
      Texas
      United States
      Member #55889
      October 23, 2007
      5595 Posts
      Offline
      Posted: February 24, 2011, 10:42 pm - IP Logged

      garyo1954

      Jimmy is a "legend in his own mind."  Everything he has posted is common knowledge.  He searches

      the web for some article that he feels will support his topic of the day which is also the source for his

      topic of the day.  I am not nearly as absent minded as he thinks.   He feels that statistics rule the day

      and overall I would agree.  One only needs to look at his analysis of maddogs challenge to see the 

      effect that I have so many times tried to explain.  Notice that one player done very well but when 

      averaged overall shows no more then the expected.  Consider the Law of large numbers how that 

      in a large sample the outcomes will most always confirm the expected.  I have no problem with this

      however this also assumes that the event is random.  The lottery is considered sufficiently random

      and my idea of sufficiently is that it is somewhat less sufficient then belived.  I have been thinking

      of starting another post concerning playing digits but won't until jimmy and I can come to a

      agreement.  If he will give his word that he would stay away then I would make a second attemp

      to explain the pro's and con's of using digits and I will also refrain from posting in his topics.  My

      digit system post was posted just to give others another method to select numbers.  I though

      that some would try it and either use it or forget it.  Because I made the comment that I have had

      success using it I came under attack.  This was my first public post and if I make another I will be

      much more percise.

      I have been watching you and jimmy go back and forth with some amusement. When I first read about your digits system, I thought it was a pretty good idea. When I pick numbers to play, I now pay attention to the digits....but I don't necessarily pick or reject my numbers on digits alone.

      My take on the whole thing is that LP is about sharing ideas. I never understood why jimmy, or anyone else would attack a person who posts a system or idea. Maybe it's a case of a person who must tear someone else down in order to feel good about themselves. What a pity.

      I would encourage you to continue to post ideas, including info on your digits system. And if jimmy or anyone else attacks you, simply ignore them, and don't even bother to respond. If you don't respond to someone, they eventually find themselves simply posting (talking) to themselves.

      Thanks for what you have posted so far.

      CAN'T WIN IF YOU'RE NOT IN

      A DOLLAR AND A DREAM (OR $2)


        United States
        Member #93947
        July 10, 2010
        2180 Posts
        Offline
        Posted: February 24, 2011, 10:52 pm - IP Logged

        I have been watching you and jimmy go back and forth with some amusement. When I first read about your digits system, I thought it was a pretty good idea. When I pick numbers to play, I now pay attention to the digits....but I don't necessarily pick or reject my numbers on digits alone.

        My take on the whole thing is that LP is about sharing ideas. I never understood why jimmy, or anyone else would attack a person who posts a system or idea. Maybe it's a case of a person who must tear someone else down in order to feel good about themselves. What a pity.

        I would encourage you to continue to post ideas, including info on your digits system. And if jimmy or anyone else attacks you, simply ignore them, and don't even bother to respond. If you don't respond to someone, they eventually find themselves simply posting (talking) to themselves.

        Thanks for what you have posted so far.

        Very good idea rcbbuckeye.  And given that I posted this yesterday, I thought the bout was over.  Apparently, some people missed it:

        http://www.lotterypost.com/thread/227950/1965195

        "You are free to explore your interests in other Topics here, and unless you are mounting attacks on me, either directly, or through innuendo, I will feel no need to interrupt you."

        --Jimmy4164



          United States
          Member #93947
          July 10, 2010
          2180 Posts
          Offline
          Posted: February 24, 2011, 11:44 pm - IP Logged

          Jimmy would love to win as much as anyone who plays and he doesn't care what inferior minds want to know.  He wants to know has anyone come up with a better way to win than luck and he dares them to prove it. 

          Problem is he's not the only one who wonders about such things, when PowerBall had over a hundred second prize winners when they normally expect about five they wondered, investegated and their minds were put at ease when they found out nearly all the winners got their numbers from a foture cookie.  However incidents like the one mentioned in http://www.lotterypost.com/thread/228097continues to happen and probably keep them wondering and there's no benifits for anyone who has accomplished such feats explaining how they did it.

          "He wants to know has anyone come up with a better way to win than luck..."

          This is a very revealing statement RJOh.  It's not the first time you and others have made similar assertions regarding my motives for asking for proofs of the efficacy of systems.  Believe it or not, it is amusing to me.  Why?  Because what it tells me is that you are so steadfast in your belief that there exists a reliable system capable of providing an income stream from secondary prizes that you find it impossible to entertain even the POSSIBILITY that Jimmy4164 is NOT here to steal some-one's system.  Believe me.  I'm not!  My belief is that the only reliable "systems" that can possibly exist are based in conspiracies to stage predictable Draws, predictable ONLY by the conspirators.

            Avatar
            Kentucky
            United States
            Member #32652
            February 14, 2006
            7309 Posts
            Offline
            Posted: February 24, 2011, 11:49 pm - IP Logged

            gary01954,

            Thanks for your honesty!  Smile

            Don't beat yourself up so much.

            The answer to your questions are really quite simple.  Pick-3 [000-999] games are expected to look this way:  If you play $1 on a straight daily, every 2 or 3 years you'll hit for $500.  If you spend more than that, you'll hit more often so just multply.  If you play box tickets, you'll hit more often, but the prizes will be proportionally less.  My backtests of 33+ years of the PA [000-999] lottery resulted in an average straight hit rate of 1 per 1000 draws, and this was true applying various TTT schemes as well as "systems" like betting on "yesterday's winner".  If you believe you have a way to beat these odds over years of play, I'm happy for you.  Play on.

            As for the Powerball, et al, the odds are actually WORSE than Pick-3, UNLESS you hit a 5/5 or a Jackpot!  Look at the summary of 2010 in my MadDog Challenge Topic.  (I know some here think these stats are worthless, but bear with me.)  If you exclude the possibility of winning a Jackpot, the Expected Value of a $1 Powerball ticket is only 17.4 ¢ ! The reason for this is that the lion's share of the money payed back to the winners is in the Jackpot, 32.5 ¢ .

            So, WHY would I play the Powerball?  If I spent all my gambling allotment on the PA Daily Number (Pick-3), unless one of Nicholas Taleb's "Black Swans" endowed me with an amazing string of 400 or more $500 hits before I die, I would have no hope of ever paying off my mortgage with a windfall, or in the case of a Jackpot, paying off all my kid's mortgages and starting a world tour! Simply put, I accept the lousy odds of the Powerball as my payment for my chance to win the Big One.  It allows me to dream!

            I'm sorry, but all I can say to those who think they've found a way for anyone to sustain winning streaks of small prizes to an extent that they can be relied upon as a source of income is, "Show us proof!"

            --Jimmy4164

            P.S.

            http://www.lotterypost.com/thread/222395/1913245

             
               Total Ticket Costs        $8,271,258
               Total Winnings            $1,772,590
               Overall Gain/Loss        -$6,498,668
             
                                        Expected                        Actual
              Category                #Wins             ROI*              #Wins            ROI*
             
              0 WB + PB              133991            0.049             124791            0.045
              1 WB + PB               66990            0.032              64153            0.031
              2 WB + PB               10508            0.009               9275            0.008
              3 WB                    23037            0.019              27240            0.023
              3 WB + PB                 606            0.007                432            0.005
              4 WB                      435            0.005                428            0.005
              4 WB + PB                  11.438        0.014                  0            0.000
              5 WB                        1.610        0.039                  4            0.097
                                                       -----                               -----
              Total (Excl Jackpot)                     0.174                               0.214
             
              JACKPOT**                   0.042        0.325                  0            0.000
             

             * ROI is The Amount Won Per Dollar Spent on Tickets.
            ** The Expected Jackpot used is $63,476,560 per Winning Ticket.
               This is an oversimplified shortcut.
               An In Depth discussion of Powerball Payouts can be found here:

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powerball

            "your continual blatherings of the lie that I don't understand the odds there as well are a bore."

            I don't care if you understand the odds or not but I said "Just another example of your illogical and unrealistic assumptions of how people play lottery games". Thanks for again posting that worthless information from your imaginary Challenge statistics.

            "If you spend more than that, you'll hit more often so just multply.  If you play box tickets, you'll hit more often, but the prizes will be proportionally less."

            Does this mean if I bet $10 on a number straight, I'll win more but if I bet the $10 on the box I'll win less?

            Wow, you truly are a fountain of useless information!

            "I'm sorry Stack47, but YOU are the one with deficiencies in the understanding of Game Theory."

            This coming from someone that stayed in their Vegas hotel room replying to Lottery Post and said:

            "I would have no hope of ever paying off my mortgage with a windfall, or in the case of a Jackpot, paying off all my kid's mortgages and starting a world tour! Simply put, I accept the lousy odds of the Powerball as my payment for my chance to win the Big One.  It allows me to dream! "


              United States
              Member #93947
              July 10, 2010
              2180 Posts
              Offline
              Posted: February 24, 2011, 11:57 pm - IP Logged

              "your continual blatherings of the lie that I don't understand the odds there as well are a bore."

              I don't care if you understand the odds or not but I said "Just another example of your illogical and unrealistic assumptions of how people play lottery games". Thanks for again posting that worthless information from your imaginary Challenge statistics.

              "If you spend more than that, you'll hit more often so just multply.  If you play box tickets, you'll hit more often, but the prizes will be proportionally less."

              Does this mean if I bet $10 on a number straight, I'll win more but if I bet the $10 on the box I'll win less?

              Wow, you truly are a fountain of useless information!

              "I'm sorry Stack47, but YOU are the one with deficiencies in the understanding of Game Theory."

              This coming from someone that stayed in their Vegas hotel room replying to Lottery Post and said:

              "I would have no hope of ever paying off my mortgage with a windfall, or in the case of a Jackpot, paying off all my kid's mortgages and starting a world tour! Simply put, I accept the lousy odds of the Powerball as my payment for my chance to win the Big One.  It allows me to dream! "

              Stack47 said, "Does this mean if I bet $10 on a number straight, I'll win more but if I bet the $10 on the box I'll win less?"

              It would depend of course on the tickets purchased, and the winning draw.

              But I assumed you knew that.

              --Jimmy4164

                garyo1954's avatar - garyo
                Dallas, Texas
                United States
                Member #4549
                May 2, 2004
                1689 Posts
                Offline
                Posted: February 25, 2011, 5:29 am - IP Logged

                gary01954,

                Thanks for your honesty!  Smile

                Don't beat yourself up so much.

                The answer to your questions are really quite simple.  Pick-3 [000-999] games are expected to look this way:  If you play $1 on a straight daily, every 2 or 3 years you'll hit for $500.  If you spend more than that, you'll hit more often so just multply.  If you play box tickets, you'll hit more often, but the prizes will be proportionally less.  My backtests of 33+ years of the PA [000-999] lottery resulted in an average straight hit rate of 1 per 1000 draws, and this was true applying various TTT schemes as well as "systems" like betting on "yesterday's winner".  If you believe you have a way to beat these odds over years of play, I'm happy for you.  Play on.

                As for the Powerball, et al, the odds are actually WORSE than Pick-3, UNLESS you hit a 5/5 or a Jackpot!  Look at the summary of 2010 in my MadDog Challenge Topic.  (I know some here think these stats are worthless, but bear with me.)  If you exclude the possibility of winning a Jackpot, the Expected Value of a $1 Powerball ticket is only 17.4 ¢ ! The reason for this is that the lion's share of the money payed back to the winners is in the Jackpot, 32.5 ¢ .

                So, WHY would I play the Powerball?  If I spent all my gambling allotment on the PA Daily Number (Pick-3), unless one of Nicholas Taleb's "Black Swans" endowed me with an amazing string of 400 or more $500 hits before I die, I would have no hope of ever paying off my mortgage with a windfall, or in the case of a Jackpot, paying off all my kid's mortgages and starting a world tour! Simply put, I accept the lousy odds of the Powerball as my payment for my chance to win the Big One.  It allows me to dream!

                I'm sorry, but all I can say to those who think they've found a way for anyone to sustain winning streaks of small prizes to an extent that they can be relied upon as a source of income is, "Show us proof!"

                --Jimmy4164

                P.S.

                http://www.lotterypost.com/thread/222395/1913245

                 
                   Total Ticket Costs        $8,271,258
                   Total Winnings            $1,772,590
                   Overall Gain/Loss        -$6,498,668
                 
                                            Expected                        Actual
                  Category                #Wins             ROI*              #Wins            ROI*
                 
                  0 WB + PB              133991            0.049             124791            0.045
                  1 WB + PB               66990            0.032              64153            0.031
                  2 WB + PB               10508            0.009               9275            0.008
                  3 WB                    23037            0.019              27240            0.023
                  3 WB + PB                 606            0.007                432            0.005
                  4 WB                      435            0.005                428            0.005
                  4 WB + PB                  11.438        0.014                  0            0.000
                  5 WB                        1.610        0.039                  4            0.097
                                                           -----                               -----
                  Total (Excl Jackpot)                     0.174                               0.214
                 
                  JACKPOT**                   0.042        0.325                  0            0.000
                 

                 * ROI is The Amount Won Per Dollar Spent on Tickets.
                ** The Expected Jackpot used is $63,476,560 per Winning Ticket.
                   This is an oversimplified shortcut.
                   An In Depth discussion of Powerball Payouts can be found here:

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powerball

                Jimbo! Dude! Homey! El Diablo!

                You answered half the questions. Or maybe one. I can't remember. Either way, you answered what you answered and that's good enough for me.

                No, I don't live off lottery winnings. I wouldn't want to work that hard! Tracking numbers, marking Xs on paper and filling out playslips would take too much time away from playing fetch, which, with a black lab, the odds are very much like playing lottery. I'll never throw that kong one more time than he will retrieve it, and we both know that. So he wins!

                And I don't live by statistics. Statistics exist because of what people do. I may be one of the 89% of Americans who buy Oral-B toothbrushes, but 89% of America was buying Oral-B toothbrushs before they took the poll! It wouldn't be a statistic if they weren't.

                Probability? The root of probability is probable. That means: Supported by evidence strong enough to establish a presumption, but not a proof. If it were otherwise, it would be an improbability or a guarantee. So when they start selling lottery tickets stamped, "YOU ARE GOING TO LOSE," I'll quit buying them.

                Depending on how and where one lives, I can see people living off lottery winnings. If I would quit buying Oral-B toothbrushes, I could. At least I believe I could. I might have to give up kongs and dog food too. (Hope I never have to try though.)

                No, I don't play odds. I play numbers. But I haven't played in two/three weeks. Maybe I should quit playing fetch. But, yes, I play when my spittoon is full of change. People think I'm joking, but the ladies at the store will tell you. They help me count CHANGE to buy lottery tickets, Jimmy! They treat me like their eccentric uncle who can't count! 

                And  I like problems. I'm a problem solver. Too much change in the spittoon? Can't give it to the beggars, they want a buck these days, so PLAY THE LOTTERY!

                For my purposes, the real intellectual stimulus is not in win or lose, not in beating the state, the odds, or the store clerk's eccentric Uncle Joe Smuckatelli, who can't count; it's not in how much I win, because I am a poor gambler, and being a poor gambler and knowing you are a poor gambler means you have to be sold on something before you make a bet; so I like to take interesting, informative tidbits and see how, or if, they affect the larger puzzle.

                My drafting table looks like something you would expect of an absentminded professor! I found a scrap of paper that reads, "191 -----> of 4 possible." Jimmy! I don't know what this means!!!!

                If I'm drinking decaf white zinfadel, I can entertain myself trying to determine why F$ = LEFT$(AN$,1) isn't working. Sometimes ALL NIGHT LONG!

                Bottom line: It's all fun. I like to win. But if I lose, I forget it fast. 

                I kid a lot in real life. If I spend a buck on a $14 million dollar lottery, I don't say I lost a buck. I say I lost $14 Million!

                It's all in the way you look at it. Right?

                  Avatar
                  Kentucky
                  United States
                  Member #32652
                  February 14, 2006
                  7309 Posts
                  Offline
                  Posted: February 25, 2011, 10:52 am - IP Logged

                  I would love to see a complete specification of your favorite Pick-3 system, one that you allude to the existence of that one could live on the winnings from, so we could put it to the test.  We could form a conspiracy of thousands of LP players, focus on one state, and laugh all the way to the bank as we watch that state go bankrupt while we collectively take them down through their Pick-3!

                  Sounds good but it will never happen even if someone does has a winning system because all states have rules that fix their loses on pick3/4 games by limitings the amount that can be bet on any particular combination and their other games will go pari-mutual if their payouts go beyond a certain limit.  The odds are such that it shouldn't ever happens but they are prepared if it does.  The best thing a player can do if he knows he has discovered a way to give himself an advantage is to play and keep it to himself mean while nothing is lost by discussing his theories about winning and maybe someone will even give him some good suggestions too.

                  When I read Jimmy's remark I had to double check because I thought it was something Pumpi might say. But  I knew better because Pumpi is more realistic; he wants to go after the PB and MM jackpots.

                    Avatar
                    Kentucky
                    United States
                    Member #32652
                    February 14, 2006
                    7309 Posts
                    Offline
                    Posted: February 25, 2011, 12:00 pm - IP Logged

                    Stack47,

                    You said,

                    "...you will never understand that some players are winning something from the 50% the pick-3 games are paying out."

                    Of course there are winners!  If you had really been paying attention to what I've been saying for the last 6 months, YOU might understand that because of the obscene 50% house cut, and the LOW 500/1 Jackpots, the VAST MAJORITY of Pick-3 players register a LOSS year over year!

                    Do yourself a favor.  Either write for yourself or purchase Monte Carlo Simulation Software and observe how the Bell Shaped Curve of Pick-3 winnings shifts to the RED as you start with a minimal house edge like the one in Roulette and slowly move towards 50%.  You must think offshore payouts of 90% are cash machines for the players!

                    As far as large jackpots go, I play the Powerball and Megamillions twice weekly and your continual blatherings of the lie that I don't understand the odds there as well are a bore.

                    I would love to see a complete specification of your favorite Pick-3 system, one that you allude to the existence of that one could live on the winnings from, so we could put it to the test.  We could form a conspiracy of thousands of LP players, focus on one state, and laugh all the way to the bank as we watch that state go bankrupt while we collectively take them down through their Pick-3!

                    I'm sorry Stack47, but YOU are the one with deficiencies in the understanding of Game Theory.

                    --Jimmy4164

                    "I would love to see a complete specification of your favorite Pick-3 system, one that you allude to the existence of that one could live on the winnings from, so we could put it to the test."

                    And that's probably the reason Lottery Post has over 100,000 members all looking for that system.

                    You remind me of the football player that picked up a fumble, ran the wrong way and scored a safety for the other team when he thought he scored a touchdown. When I said "The math was done years ago before anyone wagered on pick-3 games and the house edge is and has been 50% in almost every state lottery pick-3 game. A "the glass is half empty" type of guy like you will never understand that some players are winning something from the 50% the pick-3 games are paying out." it obviously means the house pays out about $500,000 for every $1 million in wagers and yes, somebody is winning something every day.

                    As for making a living playing the pick-3, it would depend on a person's lifestyle, but it's possible someone could $1000 a week without ever being noticed by the state lottery. I never say anybody holding a giant check after collecting $500 hitting a pick-3 number.

                    In some states triples and quads are sold out almost every day so when a triple or quad is drawn, they will payout the maximum payoff allowed by their rules. I don't know how many losing days a state lottery would have to experience before closing the game if someone did actually share a winning system with thousands of other players.

                    I was stating a fact because most of the state lotteries give the daily payoffs so it is a fact someone is winning.

                    Next time you're in Vegas, go to the casino floor and tell the whales your statistics and probabilities and how to bet. Let us know how long it takes security to escort you from the casino property.

                      time*treat's avatar - radar

                      United States
                      Member #13130
                      March 30, 2005
                      2171 Posts
                      Offline
                      Posted: February 25, 2011, 12:14 pm - IP Logged

                      In some states triples and quads are sold out almost every day so when a triple or quad is drawn, they will payout the maximum payoff allowed by their rules. I don't know how many losing days a state lottery would have to experience before closing the game if someone did actually share a winning system with thousands of other players.

                      Like these folks who won playing 2222 ... http://www.lotterypost.com/news/223381/1844693

                      Illinois Pick 4 lottery winners in huge line for record payout

                      In neo-conned Amerika, bank robs you.
                      Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be the name of a convenience store, not a govnoment agency.

                        RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
                        mid-Ohio
                        United States
                        Member #9
                        March 24, 2001
                        19825 Posts
                        Offline
                        Posted: February 25, 2011, 12:49 pm - IP Logged

                        "He wants to know has anyone come up with a better way to win than luck..."

                        This is a very revealing statement RJOh.  It's not the first time you and others have made similar assertions regarding my motives for asking for proofs of the efficacy of systems.  Believe it or not, it is amusing to me.  Why?  Because what it tells me is that you are so steadfast in your belief that there exists a reliable system capable of providing an income stream from secondary prizes that you find it impossible to entertain even the POSSIBILITY that Jimmy4164 is NOT here to steal some-one's system.  Believe me.  I'm not!  My belief is that the only reliable "systems" that can possibly exist are based in conspiracies to stage predictable Draws, predictable ONLY by the conspirators.

                        That's exactly my point, LP members come to LP to discuss and exchange ideas about their theories and strategies for winning a lottery, anyone who believes he already has a reliable strategy for winning is not discussing it here.

                        Where did your latest claim about my beliefs come from?  I've never claimed to believe there's any system that could provides an income playing the lotteries.   Perhaps you read something in another member post and assumed others must think the same way, but the truth is there are as many different beliefs about playing lotteries as there are active members here. 

                        I do believe you think some one has more reliable information than has been shared with you or you wouldn't be asking for more data and proof.  If you really believe what you post, stop asking other members to prove you wrong.  Who cares if your theories are more right or wrong than others?

                         * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                           
                                     Evil Looking       

                          RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

                          United States
                          Member #59354
                          March 13, 2008
                          3968 Posts
                          Offline
                          Posted: February 25, 2011, 1:43 pm - IP Logged

                          Anyone, everyone

                          I posted a system that uses / wheels digits to build my lines to play.  Over the years I have worked

                          out several methods of selecting digits that allows me to win more then I play.  For the record, I win

                          between $500.00 to $1000.00 per year more then I spend.  I play between 25 and 35 times a year

                          and play between 8 and 15 lines.  I normally hit three or four 4 of 5's each year but have hit three in

                          one day.  I win many 3 of 5's which pays $10.00 and 2 of 5's which pays $1.00.   I have never claimed

                          to be rich or make a living playing the lottery.  My methods require me to wait sometimes for weeks

                          between plays waiting for the correct time to play.  If I wanted to play more agressive then I could

                          probably win more but I could also lose more.  I wish I could win any time that I chose to play but that

                          is not the case.  Jimmy wants me to show the exact method I use and It's not that simple.  There is

                          no one bit of data but may different things that show that the RNG is about to come home to papa so

                          to speak.   Below is a list from last nights drawing that shows all the possible 4 of 5's for that drawing

                          and the digits needed to produce them.   This data -> 3230001000 shows the times each digit hit per

                          set.   The first digit 3 in the line is the number of times digit 1 was in the set. The next digit 2 is the

                          times digit 2 is in the set and so on.   You can see from the list that I have many different ways I could

                          have set my wheel using many different digit combinations and still hit a 4of5.  Some of these will produce

                          less then 10 total lines using no filters. 

                           

                          Example for first line

                          01-13-17-22-33  3230001000  1237 <- digits needed for a 4  of 5

                          digit 1 hit three

                          digit 2 hit two

                          digit 3 hit three

                          digits 4-5-6 no shows

                          digit 7 hit one

                          digits 8-9-0 no shows

                           

                          numbers______1234567890__digits needed

                          01 13 17 22 33   3230001000   1237
                          01 13 17 22 34   3221001000   12347
                          01 13 17 33 34   3041001000   1347
                          01 13 22 33 34   2241000000   1234
                          01 17 22 33 34   2231001000   12347
                          02 13 17 22 33   2330001000   1237
                          02 13 17 22 34   2321001000   12347
                          02 13 17 33 34   2141001000   12347
                          02 13 22 33 34   1341000000   1234
                          02 17 22 33 34   1331001000   12347
                          03 13 17 22 33   2240001000   1237
                          03 13 17 22 34   2231001000   12347
                          03 13 17 33 34   2051001000   1347
                          03 13 22 33 34   1251000000   1234
                          03 17 22 33 34   1241001000   12347
                          04 13 17 22 33   2231001000   12347
                          04 13 17 22 34   2222001000   12347
                          04 13 17 33 34   2042001000   1347
                          04 13 22 33 34   1242000000   1234
                          04 17 22 33 34   1232001000   12347
                          05 13 17 22 33   2230101000   12357
                          05 13 17 22 34   2221101000   123457
                          05 13 17 33 34   2041101000   13457
                          05 13 22 33 34   1241100000   12345
                          05 17 22 33 34   1231101000   123457
                          06 13 17 22 33   2230011000   12367
                          06 13 17 22 34   2221011000   123467
                          06 13 17 33 34   2041011000   13467
                          06 13 22 33 34   1241010000   12346
                          06 17 22 33 34   1231011000   123467
                          07 13 17 22 33   2230002000   1237
                          07 13 17 22 34   2221002000   12347
                          07 13 17 33 34   2041002000   1347
                          07 13 22 33 34   1241001000   12347
                          07 17 22 33 34   1231002000   12347
                          08 13 17 22 33   2230001100   12378
                          08 13 17 22 34   2221001100   123478
                          08 13 17 33 34   2041001100   13478
                          08 13 22 33 34   1241000100   12348
                          08 17 22 33 34   1231001100   123478
                          09 13 17 22 33   2230001010   12379
                          09 13 17 22 34   2221001010   123479
                          09 13 17 33 34   2041001010   13479
                          09 13 22 33 34   1241000010   12349
                          09 17 22 33 34   1231001010   123479
                          10 13 17 22 33   3230001001   12370
                          10 13 17 22 34   3221001001   123470
                          10 13 17 33 34   3041001001   13470
                          10 13 22 33 34   2241000001   12340
                          10 17 22 33 34   2231001001   123470
                          11 13 17 22 33   4230001000   1237
                          11 13 17 22 34   4221001000   12347
                          11 13 17 33 34   4041001000   1347
                          11 13 22 33 34   3241000000   1234
                          11 17 22 33 34   3231001000   12347
                          12 13 17 22 33   3330001000   1237
                          12 13 17 22 34   3321001000   12347
                          12 13 17 33 34   3141001000   12347
                          12 13 22 33 34   2341000000   1234
                          12 17 22 33 34   2331001000   12347
                          13 14 17 22 33   3231001000   12347
                          13 14 17 22 34   3222001000   12347
                          13 14 17 33 34   3042001000   1347
                          13 14 22 33 34   2242000000   1234
                          13 15 17 22 33   3230101000   12357
                          13 15 17 22 34   3221101000   123457
                          13 15 17 33 34   3041101000   13457
                          13 15 22 33 34   2241100000   12345
                          13 16 17 22 33   3230011000   12367
                          13 16 17 22 34   3221011000   123467
                          13 16 17 33 34   3041011000   13467
                          13 16 22 33 34   2241010000   12346
                          13 17 18 22 33   3230001100   12378
                          13 17 18 22 34   3221001100   123478
                          13 17 18 33 34   3041001100   13478
                          13 17 19 22 33   3230001010   12379
                          13 17 19 22 34   3221001010   123479
                          13 17 19 33 34   3041001010   13479
                          13 17 20 22 33   2330001001   12370
                          13 17 20 22 34   2321001001   123470
                          13 17 20 33 34   2141001001   123470
                          13 17 21 22 33   3330001000   1237
                          13 17 21 22 34   3321001000   12347
                          13 17 21 33 34   3141001000   12347
                          13 17 22 23 33   2340001000   1237
                          13 17 22 23 34   2331001000   12347
                          13 17 22 24 33   2331001000   12347
                          13 17 22 24 34   2322001000   12347
                          13 17 22 25 33   2330101000   12357
                          13 17 22 25 34   2321101000   123457
                          13 17 22 26 33   2330011000   12367
                          13 17 22 26 34   2321011000   123467
                          13 17 22 27 33   2330002000   1237
                          13 17 22 27 34   2321002000   12347
                          13 17 22 28 33   2330001100   12378
                          13 17 22 28 34   2321001100   123478
                          13 17 22 29 33   2330001010   12379
                          13 17 22 29 34   2321001010   123479
                          13 17 22 30 33   2240001001   12370
                          13 17 22 30 34   2231001001   123470
                          13 17 22 31 33   3240001000   1237
                          13 17 22 31 34   3231001000   12347
                          13 17 22 32 33   2340001000   1237
                          13 17 22 32 34   2331001000   12347
                          13 17 22 33 34   2241001000   12347 5 OF 5
                          13 17 22 33 35   2240101000   12357
                          13 17 22 33 36   2240011000   12367
                          13 17 22 33 37   2240002000   1237
                          13 17 22 33 38   2240001100   12378
                          13 17 22 33 39   2240001010   12379
                          13 17 22 34 35   2231101000   123457
                          13 17 22 34 36   2231011000   123467
                          13 17 22 34 37   2231002000   12347
                          13 17 22 34 38   2231001100   123478
                          13 17 22 34 39   2231001010   123479
                          13 17 23 33 34   2151001000   12347
                          13 17 24 33 34   2142001000   12347
                          13 17 25 33 34   2141101000   123457
                          13 17 26 33 34   2141011000   123467
                          13 17 27 33 34   2141002000   12347
                          13 17 28 33 34   2141001100   123478
                          13 17 29 33 34   2141001010   123479
                          13 17 30 33 34   2051001001   13470
                          13 17 31 33 34   3051001000   1347
                          13 17 32 33 34   2151001000   12347
                          13 17 33 34 35   2051101000   13457
                          13 17 33 34 36   2051011000   13467
                          13 17 33 34 37   2051002000   1347
                          13 17 33 34 38   2051001100   13478
                          13 17 33 34 39   2051001010   13479
                          13 18 22 33 34   2241000100   12348
                          13 19 22 33 34   2241000010   12349
                          13 20 22 33 34   1341000001   12340
                          13 21 22 33 34   2341000000   1234
                          13 22 23 33 34   1351000000   1234
                          13 22 24 33 34   1342000000   1234
                          13 22 25 33 34   1341100000   12345
                          13 22 26 33 34   1341010000   12346
                          13 22 27 33 34   1341001000   12347
                          13 22 28 33 34   1341000100   12348
                          13 22 29 33 34   1341000010   12349
                          13 22 30 33 34   1251000001   12340
                          13 22 31 33 34   2251000000   1234
                          13 22 32 33 34   1351000000   1234
                          13 22 33 34 35   1251100000   12345
                          13 22 33 34 36   1251010000   12346
                          13 22 33 34 37   1251001000   12347
                          13 22 33 34 38   1251000100   12348
                          13 22 33 34 39   1251000010   12349
                          14 17 22 33 34   2232001000   12347
                          15 17 22 33 34   2231101000   123457
                          16 17 22 33 34   2231011000   123467
                          17 18 22 33 34   2231001100   123478
                          17 19 22 33 34   2231001010   123479
                          17 20 22 33 34   1331001001   123470
                          17 21 22 33 34   2331001000   12347
                          17 22 23 33 34   1341001000   12347
                          17 22 24 33 34   1332001000   12347
                          17 22 25 33 34   1331101000   123457
                          17 22 26 33 34   1331011000   123467
                          17 22 27 33 34   1331002000   12347
                          17 22 28 33 34   1331001100   123478
                          17 22 29 33 34   1331001010   123479
                          17 22 30 33 34   1241001001   123470
                          17 22 31 33 34   2241001000   12347
                          17 22 32 33 34   1341001000   12347
                          17 22 33 34 35   1241101000   123457
                          17 22 33 34 36   1241011000   123467
                          17 22 33 34 37   1241002000   12347
                          17 22 33 34 38   1241001100   123478
                          17 22 33 34 39   1241001010   123479

                           

                          This is the digit system, My software allows me to click on the digits I want to wheel and click run. Notice

                          how many of these sets have digits 1-2-3 and many have 1-2-3-4 which would produced a 4 of 5. Some

                          of these will produce more then one.

                          RL

                            Avatar
                            bgonçalves
                            Brasil
                            Member #92564
                            June 9, 2010
                            2122 Posts
                            Offline
                            Posted: February 25, 2011, 3:17 pm - IP Logged

                            Anyone, everyone

                            I posted a system that uses / wheels digits to build my lines to play.  Over the years I have worked

                            out several methods of selecting digits that allows me to win more then I play.  For the record, I win

                            between $500.00 to $1000.00 per year more then I spend.  I play between 25 and 35 times a year

                            and play between 8 and 15 lines.  I normally hit three or four 4 of 5's each year but have hit three in

                            one day.  I win many 3 of 5's which pays $10.00 and 2 of 5's which pays $1.00.   I have never claimed

                            to be rich or make a living playing the lottery.  My methods require me to wait sometimes for weeks

                            between plays waiting for the correct time to play.  If I wanted to play more agressive then I could

                            probably win more but I could also lose more.  I wish I could win any time that I chose to play but that

                            is not the case.  Jimmy wants me to show the exact method I use and It's not that simple.  There is

                            no one bit of data but may different things that show that the RNG is about to come home to papa so

                            to speak.   Below is a list from last nights drawing that shows all the possible 4 of 5's for that drawing

                            and the digits needed to produce them.   This data -> 3230001000 shows the times each digit hit per

                            set.   The first digit 3 in the line is the number of times digit 1 was in the set. The next digit 2 is the

                            times digit 2 is in the set and so on.   You can see from the list that I have many different ways I could

                            have set my wheel using many different digit combinations and still hit a 4of5.  Some of these will produce

                            less then 10 total lines using no filters. 

                             

                            Example for first line

                            01-13-17-22-33  3230001000  1237 <- digits needed for a 4  of 5

                            digit 1 hit three

                            digit 2 hit two

                            digit 3 hit three

                            digits 4-5-6 no shows

                            digit 7 hit one

                            digits 8-9-0 no shows

                             

                            numbers______1234567890__digits needed

                            01 13 17 22 33   3230001000   1237
                            01 13 17 22 34   3221001000   12347
                            01 13 17 33 34   3041001000   1347
                            01 13 22 33 34   2241000000   1234
                            01 17 22 33 34   2231001000   12347
                            02 13 17 22 33   2330001000   1237
                            02 13 17 22 34   2321001000   12347
                            02 13 17 33 34   2141001000   12347
                            02 13 22 33 34   1341000000   1234
                            02 17 22 33 34   1331001000   12347
                            03 13 17 22 33   2240001000   1237
                            03 13 17 22 34   2231001000   12347
                            03 13 17 33 34   2051001000   1347
                            03 13 22 33 34   1251000000   1234
                            03 17 22 33 34   1241001000   12347
                            04 13 17 22 33   2231001000   12347
                            04 13 17 22 34   2222001000   12347
                            04 13 17 33 34   2042001000   1347
                            04 13 22 33 34   1242000000   1234
                            04 17 22 33 34   1232001000   12347
                            05 13 17 22 33   2230101000   12357
                            05 13 17 22 34   2221101000   123457
                            05 13 17 33 34   2041101000   13457
                            05 13 22 33 34   1241100000   12345
                            05 17 22 33 34   1231101000   123457
                            06 13 17 22 33   2230011000   12367
                            06 13 17 22 34   2221011000   123467
                            06 13 17 33 34   2041011000   13467
                            06 13 22 33 34   1241010000   12346
                            06 17 22 33 34   1231011000   123467
                            07 13 17 22 33   2230002000   1237
                            07 13 17 22 34   2221002000   12347
                            07 13 17 33 34   2041002000   1347
                            07 13 22 33 34   1241001000   12347
                            07 17 22 33 34   1231002000   12347
                            08 13 17 22 33   2230001100   12378
                            08 13 17 22 34   2221001100   123478
                            08 13 17 33 34   2041001100   13478
                            08 13 22 33 34   1241000100   12348
                            08 17 22 33 34   1231001100   123478
                            09 13 17 22 33   2230001010   12379
                            09 13 17 22 34   2221001010   123479
                            09 13 17 33 34   2041001010   13479
                            09 13 22 33 34   1241000010   12349
                            09 17 22 33 34   1231001010   123479
                            10 13 17 22 33   3230001001   12370
                            10 13 17 22 34   3221001001   123470
                            10 13 17 33 34   3041001001   13470
                            10 13 22 33 34   2241000001   12340
                            10 17 22 33 34   2231001001   123470
                            11 13 17 22 33   4230001000   1237
                            11 13 17 22 34   4221001000   12347
                            11 13 17 33 34   4041001000   1347
                            11 13 22 33 34   3241000000   1234
                            11 17 22 33 34   3231001000   12347
                            12 13 17 22 33   3330001000   1237
                            12 13 17 22 34   3321001000   12347
                            12 13 17 33 34   3141001000   12347
                            12 13 22 33 34   2341000000   1234
                            12 17 22 33 34   2331001000   12347
                            13 14 17 22 33   3231001000   12347
                            13 14 17 22 34   3222001000   12347
                            13 14 17 33 34   3042001000   1347
                            13 14 22 33 34   2242000000   1234
                            13 15 17 22 33   3230101000   12357
                            13 15 17 22 34   3221101000   123457
                            13 15 17 33 34   3041101000   13457
                            13 15 22 33 34   2241100000   12345
                            13 16 17 22 33   3230011000   12367
                            13 16 17 22 34   3221011000   123467
                            13 16 17 33 34   3041011000   13467
                            13 16 22 33 34   2241010000   12346
                            13 17 18 22 33   3230001100   12378
                            13 17 18 22 34   3221001100   123478
                            13 17 18 33 34   3041001100   13478
                            13 17 19 22 33   3230001010   12379
                            13 17 19 22 34   3221001010   123479
                            13 17 19 33 34   3041001010   13479
                            13 17 20 22 33   2330001001   12370
                            13 17 20 22 34   2321001001   123470
                            13 17 20 33 34   2141001001   123470
                            13 17 21 22 33   3330001000   1237
                            13 17 21 22 34   3321001000   12347
                            13 17 21 33 34   3141001000   12347
                            13 17 22 23 33   2340001000   1237
                            13 17 22 23 34   2331001000   12347
                            13 17 22 24 33   2331001000   12347
                            13 17 22 24 34   2322001000   12347
                            13 17 22 25 33   2330101000   12357
                            13 17 22 25 34   2321101000   123457
                            13 17 22 26 33   2330011000   12367
                            13 17 22 26 34   2321011000   123467
                            13 17 22 27 33   2330002000   1237
                            13 17 22 27 34   2321002000   12347
                            13 17 22 28 33   2330001100   12378
                            13 17 22 28 34   2321001100   123478
                            13 17 22 29 33   2330001010   12379
                            13 17 22 29 34   2321001010   123479
                            13 17 22 30 33   2240001001   12370
                            13 17 22 30 34   2231001001   123470
                            13 17 22 31 33   3240001000   1237
                            13 17 22 31 34   3231001000   12347
                            13 17 22 32 33   2340001000   1237
                            13 17 22 32 34   2331001000   12347
                            13 17 22 33 34   2241001000   12347 5 OF 5
                            13 17 22 33 35   2240101000   12357
                            13 17 22 33 36   2240011000   12367
                            13 17 22 33 37   2240002000   1237
                            13 17 22 33 38   2240001100   12378
                            13 17 22 33 39   2240001010   12379
                            13 17 22 34 35   2231101000   123457
                            13 17 22 34 36   2231011000   123467
                            13 17 22 34 37   2231002000   12347
                            13 17 22 34 38   2231001100   123478
                            13 17 22 34 39   2231001010   123479
                            13 17 23 33 34   2151001000   12347
                            13 17 24 33 34   2142001000   12347
                            13 17 25 33 34   2141101000   123457
                            13 17 26 33 34   2141011000   123467
                            13 17 27 33 34   2141002000   12347
                            13 17 28 33 34   2141001100   123478
                            13 17 29 33 34   2141001010   123479
                            13 17 30 33 34   2051001001   13470
                            13 17 31 33 34   3051001000   1347
                            13 17 32 33 34   2151001000   12347
                            13 17 33 34 35   2051101000   13457
                            13 17 33 34 36   2051011000   13467
                            13 17 33 34 37   2051002000   1347
                            13 17 33 34 38   2051001100   13478
                            13 17 33 34 39   2051001010   13479
                            13 18 22 33 34   2241000100   12348
                            13 19 22 33 34   2241000010   12349
                            13 20 22 33 34   1341000001   12340
                            13 21 22 33 34   2341000000   1234
                            13 22 23 33 34   1351000000   1234
                            13 22 24 33 34   1342000000   1234
                            13 22 25 33 34   1341100000   12345
                            13 22 26 33 34   1341010000   12346
                            13 22 27 33 34   1341001000   12347
                            13 22 28 33 34   1341000100   12348
                            13 22 29 33 34   1341000010   12349
                            13 22 30 33 34   1251000001   12340
                            13 22 31 33 34   2251000000   1234
                            13 22 32 33 34   1351000000   1234
                            13 22 33 34 35   1251100000   12345
                            13 22 33 34 36   1251010000   12346
                            13 22 33 34 37   1251001000   12347
                            13 22 33 34 38   1251000100   12348
                            13 22 33 34 39   1251000010   12349
                            14 17 22 33 34   2232001000   12347
                            15 17 22 33 34   2231101000   123457
                            16 17 22 33 34   2231011000   123467
                            17 18 22 33 34   2231001100   123478
                            17 19 22 33 34   2231001010   123479
                            17 20 22 33 34   1331001001   123470
                            17 21 22 33 34   2331001000   12347
                            17 22 23 33 34   1341001000   12347
                            17 22 24 33 34   1332001000   12347
                            17 22 25 33 34   1331101000   123457
                            17 22 26 33 34   1331011000   123467
                            17 22 27 33 34   1331002000   12347
                            17 22 28 33 34   1331001100   123478
                            17 22 29 33 34   1331001010   123479
                            17 22 30 33 34   1241001001   123470
                            17 22 31 33 34   2241001000   12347
                            17 22 32 33 34   1341001000   12347
                            17 22 33 34 35   1241101000   123457
                            17 22 33 34 36   1241011000   123467
                            17 22 33 34 37   1241002000   12347
                            17 22 33 34 38   1241001100   123478
                            17 22 33 34 39   1241001010   123479

                             

                            This is the digit system, My software allows me to click on the digits I want to wheel and click run. Notice

                            how many of these sets have digits 1-2-3 and many have 1-2-3-4 which would produced a 4 of 5. Some

                            of these will produce more then one.

                            RL

                            Rl rondonic Hello, I have one question, have lotteries that use 50 balls
                              All together, the draw! and have lotteries that uses two digits separated globes
                              These two forms have the same precision? of digits in your system if those who organize
                              The game is a draw with the balls all together and the next draw with two other Globe
                              Separately, does that change anything? For we know that repetition is the key event
                              Of probability, and that lottery games can only provide up to 70% to 80% the rest is random, ie in a game 49 / 6 can be predicted a 4.5 both numbers will always be random, one could attempt a review with three frequency bands of each termination
                              Vertically more frequent, but medium and late in the vertical position of each single endings, ok! but until that is missing an ending loses the game, understands

                            Ouvir
                            Ler foneticamente
                             
                              garyo1954's avatar - garyo
                              Dallas, Texas
                              United States
                              Member #4549
                              May 2, 2004
                              1689 Posts
                              Offline
                              Posted: February 25, 2011, 3:28 pm - IP Logged

                              Uh-oh RL! Excellent! Another thing to to send me back to the drafting table!

                              *draws plans for cloning machine*

                              At this point I'm going to need three of me to keep up with you. Five, just to catch up with you!

                              Confused Company this weekend is not going to give me much time.

                              But so far things are falling in place. Great work! Type