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# If you could match all 6 numbers within 24 numbers would this be the best wheel?

Topic closed. 15 replies. Last post 5 years ago by nasp.

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Spain
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August 4, 2011
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 Posted: August 30, 2011, 8:29 am - IP Logged

Hello,

The title says it all... I find that I am able to match 6 numbers out of the 24, around 1-2  times in 10 draws. Would a Serotic wheel using pairs be the best wheel to capture the higher prizes?

Thanks

Spy

mid-Ohio
United States
Member #9
March 24, 2001
19898 Posts
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 Posted: August 30, 2011, 10:15 am - IP Logged

Even if you have all six numbers in a field of 24, your odds of having all six in one line are 1:134,596 and having 5 of them in one line are 1:1,246 so it's going to be a large wheel that guarantees even a match5.

* you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket *

New Jersey
United States
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October 18, 2010
1439 Posts
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 Posted: August 30, 2011, 10:23 am - IP Logged

Even if you have all six numbers in a field of 24, your odds of having all six in one line are 1:134,596 and having 5 of them in one line are 1:1,246 so it's going to be a large wheel that guarantees even a match5.

That.

They (wheels) are all over the internet - and I'm sure wheels with 24 numbers exist, but I've never seen one.  That's too many numbers, I'd suggest using something similary to one I constructed a while ago, I'll see if I can find it.  It used like 12 numbers, but I think I could modify it a little later if I can find it, to allow for more, but you have to pick which numbers are priorities, which are pairs, etc.

And it wasn't an abbreviated wheel, actually it was a key wheel with a few other traits H.O. I'll find it.

New Jersey
United States
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October 18, 2010
1439 Posts
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 Posted: August 30, 2011, 10:29 am - IP Logged

That.

They (wheels) are all over the internet - and I'm sure wheels with 24 numbers exist, but I've never seen one.  That's too many numbers, I'd suggest using something similary to one I constructed a while ago, I'll see if I can find it.  It used like 12 numbers, but I think I could modify it a little later if I can find it, to allow for more, but you have to pick which numbers are priorities, which are pairs, etc.

And it wasn't an abbreviated wheel, actually it was a key wheel with a few other traits H.O. I'll find it.

Oh darn this is Pick 6 lol my was for a Cash 5 game.

mid-Ohio
United States
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March 24, 2001
19898 Posts
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 Posted: August 30, 2011, 10:35 am - IP Logged

That.

They (wheels) are all over the internet - and I'm sure wheels with 24 numbers exist, but I've never seen one.  That's too many numbers, I'd suggest using something similary to one I constructed a while ago, I'll see if I can find it.  It used like 12 numbers, but I think I could modify it a little later if I can find it, to allow for more, but you have to pick which numbers are priorities, which are pairs, etc.

And it wasn't an abbreviated wheel, actually it was a key wheel with a few other traits H.O. I'll find it.

With CoverMaster, any size wheel with any guaranteed can be produced if you have the time.  It would take a little time to produce a 24 numbers wheel that guaranteed a match4 or better and then optomize it to its smallest size.

* you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket *

New Jersey
United States
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June 28, 2005
51064 Posts
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 Posted: August 30, 2011, 11:22 am - IP Logged

Hello,

The title says it all... I find that I am able to match 6 numbers out of the 24, around 1-2  times in 10 draws. Would a Serotic wheel using pairs be the best wheel to capture the higher prizes?

Thanks

Spy

Ininuga is a PC program, intended for creation or improvement (minimization) of abbreviated lotto wheels. It allows any choice of parameters (v, k, t, m) in range (1..32). (See: What are Wheels for
explanation) A typical time to do this job varies from a fraction of a second to several hours, depending on parameters (and consequently the wheel size). A non optimized (far too big) wheel is made fast, then
reduction goes ever slower. When started from scratch, the final size is not always impressive compared to some wheels I saw published on the Web (e.g. Peter's Wheels Page), particularly in well researched Pick-6 (k=6) area. But Ininuga may turn out to be strong in finding further reductions of wheels, made by other methods. (Not so in m=t area, at least I found no improvement to wheels from La Jolla - but I only tried a few)

v=Numbers, k=Game, t=Prize, m=Out Of
Numbers=v, Pick=k, Guarantee=t, Condition=m

A mind once stretched by a new idea never returns to its original dimensions!

Spain
Member #114615
August 4, 2011
27 Posts
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 Posted: August 30, 2011, 11:38 am - IP Logged

Is any type of wheel more preferable than  others if I can trap all 6 numbers in a pool of 24?

Spain
Member #114615
August 4, 2011
27 Posts
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 Posted: August 31, 2011, 4:45 am - IP Logged

Also RJOh,where can I get the above statistics? Is there a mathematical formula I can use?

Thanks

Spy

Dump Water Florida
United States
Member #380
June 5, 2002
3112 Posts
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 Posted: September 1, 2011, 5:50 am - IP Logged

6  8 12 17 20 23
3  5  8 15 18 21
10 11 12 16 17 18
9 11 15 18 20 22
1  5  7 15 16 23
3  4  7 11 14 23
2  4  5  7 14 17
3  9 10 15 19 24
4 10 15 17 19 23
3 14 16 18 20 22
3  7 12 15 18 22
1  4 12 16 20 24
1  9 10 17 19 22
7 14 15 17 19 23
3  5 12 15 17 20
1  5 10 14 17 21
1  2  3 13 14 15
7  8  9 22 23 24
3  6  7 11 14 18
3  4 11 13 18 24
4  5  6 22 23 24
4  6 11 14 18 23
1  5  7  9 13 22
13 14 15 19 20 21
2  7 11 13 20 22
1 11 14 17 20 23
1  6 13 17 20 24
3  6 10 14 18 19
3  6  8 13 17 23
1  4  8 13 21 23
2  5  7 10 13 23
4  7 10 13 16 21
4 11 15 17 21 22
3  8 12 18 21 24
7 10 17 20 22 24
1  7 11 13 19 24
2 10 14 16 20 23
1  6  7 18 21 22
2  3  5 12 13 19
1  8 10 16 19 23
1  5 12 16 21 22
4  8 12 15 20 23
2  4  9 13 17 20
1  8 11 15 17 24
3  6 10 17 21 24
4  5  6 13 14 15
2  6  8 13 17 19
4  5  6 16 17 18
6  8 12 14 16 21
1  4  9 11 19 23
8  9 10 18 21 22
1  7  8 11 16 21
6  9 14 17 20 22
3  7 12 14 20 24
3  7 13 17 21 24
2  6  7 11 15 17
1  6  8 10 15 22
13 14 15 22 23 24
3  5  8 14 21 23
2  8 11 18 19 23
4  5  6  7  8  9
3  6  9 13 16 22
10 11 12 22 23 24
3  5 10 14 20 22
2 10 15 17 19 22
6 11 12 17 19 22
5  7 11 15 21 24
16 17 18 22 23 24
3  7 10 15 16 21
5 10 13 18 21 22
3  4  8 11 19 22
1  8 14 18 19 24
2  4  9 14 18 22
10 11 12 13 14 15
2  6  8 12 14 22
4  5  6 19 20 21
8  9 12 16 19 22
5  8 11 13 17 23
2  5  9 15 21 23
3  8 10 14 17 22
2  9 11 16 20 23
1  6 15 18 19 23
2  4 11 12 17 21
2  5  9 12 13 24
3  4  9 12 21 22
5  7 10 15 18 24
1  4  8 14 18 20
2  4  7 15 23 24
5  7 12 13 16 17
2  5 10 11 14 19
2  8 10 15 21 24
1  5  8 12 19 24
1  4 10 15 18 24
2  4 12 18 19 23
5  9 10 13 18 19
1 12 14 20 21 22
1  2  3 16 17 18
1  2  3  7  8  9
2  6 10 15 18 20
6 15 16 17 18 19
1  6  9 11 18 21
3  5  9 17 19 24
1  9 12 15 17 21
1  5  6 19 21 23
4  5  6 10 11 12
4  7 14 16 19 22
3  9 11 13 17 21
7  8  9 16 17 18
6  8 11 14 20 24
3  4  6  7 15 20
3  9 10 18 20 23
10 11 12 19 20 21
1  2  3 22 23 24
2  6  7 16 19 24
3  4  7 16 18 19
3  6  8 15 16 20
1  2  3 10 11 12
3  6 11 15 21 23
3 12 13 16 19 23
3  6  9 12 14 19
2  5  8 17 20 22
1  8 13 17 19 22
2  4  8 10 21 24
1  5 11 14 18 22
3  5  9 11 16 20
2  6  9 10 13 23
13 14 15 16 17 18
2  4  8 12 15 16
1  9 12 13 16 23
3  5  7 17 19 22
6 12 13 18 21 24
1  4 10 16 20 22
2  6  9 10 16 22
4  9 13 15 16 19
4  7 10 13 19 22
1  5  9 10 15 20
2 11 13 16 21 22
5  8 10 13 16 24
19 20 21 22 23 24
8 10 13 18 21 23
1  6 11 13 16 20
1  7 12 15 18 19
3  4  8 10 13 20
8 12 13 18 20 22
2  5  6 14 16 24
1  9 14 16 21 24
3  4 11 14 16 24
2  9 11 14 17 24
16 17 18 19 20 21
4  8 11 14 17 20
1  2  3  4  5  6
1  6  7 10 14 23
1  6  7 10 12 18
7  8  9 10 11 12
1  4  7 12 13 17
2  4  7 11 15 20
7  8  9 13 14 15
3  4  9 16 17 23
4  9 10 14 21 24
5  6  7 12 20 23
2  9 12 18 20 24
6  9 12 15 19 24
2  7 12 17 21 23
1  2  3 19 20 21
2  5  6  8 11 18
5 11 15 16 19 22
5  9 12 14 18 23
7  8  9 19 20 21
2  4  7 14 18 21
2  5  7 14 16 19
9 11 15 16 20 24
5  6 15 16 21 23
11 14 16 19 21 22
5  7 13 18 20 23
4 12 14 17 19 24
2  5 13 18 20 24
8 11 16 19 22 23
100% (24,6,4,6)=177 with 3+3=JP worked in like this
01-02-03+04-05-06
01-02-03+07-08-09 and to on to
19-20-21+22-23-24 so replace your groups of three pointers carefully or just play 3+3 as the four number prize won't pay more then the wheel anyway.  Without the 3+3 the wheel can be made in 154.

BobP

Spain
Member #114615
August 4, 2011
27 Posts
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 Posted: September 1, 2011, 7:02 am - IP Logged

Hi BobP,

Thank you for you message. As I understand, you are recommending playing a 4if6in6 and/or a Banker 3 wheel, no?

With the 3+3=JP as I understand you recommend to place the 24 numbers into groups of three bankers and do all possible combinations?

Also, how did you manage to do the 4if6in6 in 177 lines? I tried it in CM and the best I could do using the auto-optimize function was 195 lines.

Thanks

Spy

mid-Ohio
United States
Member #9
March 24, 2001
19898 Posts
Offline
 Posted: September 1, 2011, 9:30 am - IP Logged

Also RJOh,where can I get the above statistics? Is there a mathematical formula I can use?

Thanks

Spy

You can use the probability formula which has been explained many times in other threads and should be in every serious lottery player tool box.

* you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket *

Spain
Member #114615
August 4, 2011
27 Posts
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 Posted: September 5, 2011, 5:59 am - IP Logged

Hi RJoh, I have tried looking for the formula but didn't find any threads that were particularly informative. Could you plese provide a link to the relevant thread?

BobP, I remember when I stumbled on one of your posts where you have posted a wheel I think for a 6/49 game, where the lines of the wheel were made from

triplets (three numbers) and the other three numbers were combinations covering the whole pool. I don't know if you understand which wheel I am referring to. It had a good percentage of a 5if6 as it mainly relied on finding the one triplet (apart from the triplet, the rest of the numbers in the pool showed only one time in the wheel). Could you please post that wheel again?

Thanks

Spy

Dump Water Florida
United States
Member #380
June 5, 2002
3112 Posts
Offline
 Posted: September 7, 2011, 5:09 am - IP Logged

Hi RJoh, I have tried looking for the formula but didn't find any threads that were particularly informative. Could you plese provide a link to the relevant thread?

BobP, I remember when I stumbled on one of your posts where you have posted a wheel I think for a 6/49 game, where the lines of the wheel were made from

triplets (three numbers) and the other three numbers were combinations covering the whole pool. I don't know if you understand which wheel I am referring to. It had a good percentage of a 5if6 as it mainly relied on finding the one triplet (apart from the triplet, the rest of the numbers in the pool showed only one time in the wheel). Could you please post that wheel again?

Thanks

Spy

Banker, key, king, monarch numbers 01 02 03

4  5  6
4  7 40
4  7 45
4  7 49
4  8 46
4  8 47
4  9 37
4  9 44
4 10 39
4 12 33
4 13 34
4 16 41
4 17 26
4 36 42
4 38 48
4 43 47
5  6 38
5  6 41
5  6 42
5  6 43
5  6 48
5  7 47
5  8 49
5  9 39
5 10 37
5 16 40
5 27 46
5 36 45
5 44 49
6  7 37
6  8 39
6  9 10
6 12 45
6 16 44
6 36 40
6 39 46
6 47 49
7  8  9
7 10 41
7 16 42
7 36 38
7 38 46
7 39 43
7 44 48
8  9 42
8  9 45
8 10 38
8 16 43
8 36 44
8 37 43
8 39 40
8 41 48
9 16 46
9 36 43
9 38 41
9 40 47
9 48 49
10 11 12
10 13 17
10 14 16
10 36 48
10 40 42
10 43 49
10 44 47
10 45 46
11 13 16
11 13 27
11 13 30
11 14 18
11 15 17
11 15 32
11 19 24
11 20 29
11 21 33
11 22 31
11 23 34
11 25 35
11 26 28
12 13 18
12 14 17
12 15 16
12 19 27
12 20 22
12 21 34
12 23 32
12 24 29
12 25 28
12 26 30
12 31 35
13 14 15
13 17 21
13 17 28
13 19 29
13 20 32
13 22 33
13 23 33
13 24 35
13 25 31
13 26 33
14 18 33
14 19 30
14 20 34
14 21 31
14 22 35
14 23 28
14 24 30
14 25 29
14 26 32
14 27 34
15 18 19
15 19 34
15 20 31
15 21 30
15 22 29
15 23 35
15 24 33
15 25 28
15 26 36
15 27 33
16 17 18
16 34 45
16 36 39
16 37 49
16 38 47
16 39 48
17 19 32
17 20 35
17 22 34
17 23 29
17 24 31
17 25 33
17 27 30
18 20 24
18 21 29
18 22 28
18 23 30
18 25 30
18 26 34
18 26 35
18 27 31
18 27 32
19 20 21
19 21 35
19 22 26
19 23 25
19 23 31
19 28 33
20 22 25
20 22 30
20 23 27
20 24 26
20 28 33
21 22 27
21 22 32
21 23 26
21 24 25
21 28 36
22 23 24
24 25 32
24 25 34
24 27 28
25 26 27
26 29 31
27 29 35
28 29 30
28 31 35
28 32 34
29 31 34
29 32 36
29 33 35
30 31 36
30 32 35
30 33 34
31 32 33
33 36 37
34 35 36
36 41 47
36 46 49
37 38 39
37 40 44
37 41 49
37 42 47
37 45 49
37 46 48
38 40 43
38 40 49
38 41 45
38 42 44
39 41 44
39 42 49
39 45 47
40 41 42
40 44 46
40 45 48
41 43 46
42 43 48
42 45 46
43 44 45
46 47 48
end (46,3,2,3)=199 with 3 key numbers makes 5if6 when 3 keys correct.

01 02 03 04 05 06
01 02 03 07 08 09
01 02 03 10 11 12
01 02 03 13 14 15
01 02 03 16 17 18
01 02 03 19 20 21
01 02 03 22 23 24
01 02 03 25 26 27
01 02 03 28 29 30
01 02 03 31 32 33
01 02 03 34 35 36
01 02 03 37 38 39
01 02 03 40 41 42
01 02 03 43 44 45
01 02 03 46 47 48
4if6 when 3 keys are correct.

the 3+3= JP wheel goes like this
01-02-03 04-05-06
01-02-03 07-08-09
01-02-03 10-11-12
01-02-03 13-14-15
01-02-03 16-17-18
01-02-03 19-20-21
01-02-03 22-23-24
04-05-06 07-08-09
04-05-06 10-11-12
04-05-06 13-14-15
04-05-06 16-17-18
04-05-06 19-20-21
04-05-06 22-23-24
07-08-09 10-11-12
07-08-09 13-14-15
07-08-09 16-17-18
07-08-09 19-20-21
07-08-09 22-23-24
10-11-12 13-14-15
10-11-12 16-17-18
10-11-12 19-20-21
10-11-12 22-23-24
13-14-15 16-17-18
13-14-15 19-20-21
13-14-15 22-23-24
16-17-18 19-20-21
16-17-18 22-23-24
19-20-21 22-23-24

BobP

Spain
Member #114615
August 4, 2011
27 Posts
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 Posted: September 7, 2011, 1:48 pm - IP Logged

Excellent! Thank you for posting the wheels. In this wheel,

01 02 03 04 05 06
01 02 03 07 08 09
01 02 03 10 11 12
01 02 03 13 14 15
01 02 03 16 17 18
01 02 03 19 20 21
01 02 03 22 23 24
01 02 03 25 26 27
01 02 03 28 29 30
01 02 03 31 32 33
01 02 03 34 35 36
01 02 03 37 38 39
01 02 03 40 41 42
01 02 03 43 44 45
01 02 03 46 47 48
4if6 when 3 keys are correct.

what would be the percentage or chance of getting a 5# and the JP, if you get the bankers correct?

Dump Water Florida
United States
Member #380
June 5, 2002
3112 Posts
Offline
 Posted: September 8, 2011, 3:02 am - IP Logged

Excellent! Thank you for posting the wheels. In this wheel,

01 02 03 04 05 06
01 02 03 07 08 09
01 02 03 10 11 12
01 02 03 13 14 15
01 02 03 16 17 18
01 02 03 19 20 21
01 02 03 22 23 24
01 02 03 25 26 27
01 02 03 28 29 30
01 02 03 31 32 33
01 02 03 34 35 36
01 02 03 37 38 39
01 02 03 40 41 42
01 02 03 43 44 45
01 02 03 46 47 48
4if6 when 3 keys are correct.

what would be the percentage or chance of getting a 5# and the JP, if you get the bankers correct?

A 5 or 6 would be slim indeed, however if the key numbers are correct and the other three winning numbers fall among the pointers 4-48 you would have a 100% chance of three 4 number wins.

BobP

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