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Dice vs Lottery Games: Is it Fair to Compare 1-1 vs 1-2-3-4 . . . ?

Topic closed. 16 replies. Last post 5 years ago by KY Floyd.

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Appleton, Wi
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October 24, 2011
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Posted: March 17, 2012, 2:49 pm - IP Logged

Is the reason why "7s" show up most often in Dice, the same reason why "150" shows up most often as the "Most Probable Sum" in a 6/49 Lottery Game?

                                            or to ask the question another way,

Is the reason why rolling a 1-1 or 6-6 infrequent for the same reason as why a draw of  1-2-3-4-5-6 or 44-45-46-47-48-49 is infrequent in Lottery?

Still trying to get my head around this one. Your insights appreciated.

    savagegoose's avatar - ProfilePho
    adelaide sa
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    April 11, 2006
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    Posted: March 17, 2012, 2:55 pm - IP Logged

    yes

    2014 = -1016; 2015= -1409; 2016 JAN = -106; FEB= -81; MAR= -131; APR= - 87: MAY= -91; JUN= -39; JUL=-134; AUG= -124; SEP = -123; OCT= -84  NOV=- 73 TOT= -3498

    keno historic = -2291 ; 2015= -603; 2016= JAN=-32, FEB= +12 , MAR= -86, APR = -77. MAY= -48, JUN= -29, JUL=-71; AUG = -52; SEPT= -43; OCT = +56 NOV = -33 TOT= -3297

      haymaker's avatar - Lottery-012.jpg
      Egg Harbor twp.south Jersey shore
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      Posted: March 17, 2012, 2:59 pm - IP Logged

      W/ the dice,the 7 shows the most often is because it has the most possible ways of happening.

      the "150" i have not a clue if can be compaired .

      Extraordinary Popular Delusions & the Madness of Crowds    -- Charles Mackay  LL.D.

        savagegoose's avatar - ProfilePho
        adelaide sa
        Australia
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        Posted: March 17, 2012, 3:05 pm - IP Logged

        W/ the dice,the 7 shows the most often is because it has the most possible ways of happening.

        the "150" i have not a clue if can be compaired .

        yeah the 150 is the most common sum, just like 7 is the most common sum on the dice. he confueses the question by mentioning 1 2 3 4 5 6 , if he wants to  bee at cross purposes,  he should mention all the results that sum upto 150,

         

        i wont do the math , but on dice there are 6 results in 36, that sum to 7, and only 1 reuslt that sums to 2,

        on lotoo its similar, so many sums that add to 150,  and onlt 1 sum that adds to 21.

         

        try graphing the sums

        2014 = -1016; 2015= -1409; 2016 JAN = -106; FEB= -81; MAR= -131; APR= - 87: MAY= -91; JUN= -39; JUL=-134; AUG= -124; SEP = -123; OCT= -84  NOV=- 73 TOT= -3498

        keno historic = -2291 ; 2015= -603; 2016= JAN=-32, FEB= +12 , MAR= -86, APR = -77. MAY= -48, JUN= -29, JUL=-71; AUG = -52; SEPT= -43; OCT = +56 NOV = -33 TOT= -3297

          haymaker's avatar - Lottery-012.jpg
          Egg Harbor twp.south Jersey shore
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          Posted: March 17, 2012, 3:15 pm - IP Logged

          never thought of adding  up my #s,i'll have to try this.

          does this also work w/ a 6/40 game like cash 5 ?

          Extraordinary Popular Delusions & the Madness of Crowds    -- Charles Mackay  LL.D.

            rdgrnr's avatar - walt
            Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
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            Posted: March 17, 2012, 3:33 pm - IP Logged
            Pick 3 Sum ChartPDFPrintE-mail


            0 - 000
            1- 001
            2 - 002, 011
            3 - 003, 012, 111
            4 - 004, 013, 022, 112
            5 - 005, 014, 023, 113, 122
            6 - 006, 015, 024, 033, 114, 123, 222
            7 - 007, 016, 025, 034, 115, 124, 133, 223
            8 - 008, 017, 026, 035, 044, 116, 125, 134, 224, 233
            9 - 009, 018, 027, 036, 045, 117, 126, 135, 144, 225, 234, 333
            10 - 019, 028, 037, 046, 055, 118, 127, 136, 145, 226, 235, 244, 334
            11 - 029, 038, 047, 056, 119, 128, 137, 146, 155, 227, 236, 245, 335, 344
            12 - 039, 048, 057, 066, 129, 138, 147, 156, 228, 237, 246, 255, 336, 345, 444
            13 - 049, 058, 067, 139, 148, 157, 166, 229, 238, 247, 256, 337, 346, 355, 445
            14 - 059, 068, 077, 149, 158, 167, 239, 248, 257, 266, 338, 347, 356, 446, 455
            15 - 069, 078, 159, 168, 177, 249, 258, 267, 339, 348, 357, 366, 447, 456, 555
            16 - 079, 088, 169, 178, 259, 268, 277, 349, 358, 367, 448, 457, 466, 556
            17 - 089, 179, 188, 269, 278, 359, 368, 377, 449, 458, 467, 557, 566
            18 - 099, 189, 279, 288, 369, 378, 459, 468, 477, 558, 567, 666
            19 - 199, 289, 379, 388, 469, 478, 559, 568, 577, 667
            20 - 299, 389, 479, 488, 569, 578, 668, 677
            21 - 399, 489, 579, 588, 669, 678, 777
            22 - 499, 589, 679, 688, 778
            23 - 599, 689, 779, 788
            24 - 699, 789, 888
            25 - 799, 889
            26 - 899
            27 - 999


                                                         
                                 
                                                     

             

             

             

             

                                                                                                               

            "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                        --Edmund Burke

             

             

              SergeM's avatar - slow icon.png
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              Posted: March 17, 2012, 4:29 pm - IP Logged

              Is the reason why "7s" show up most often in Dice, the same reason why "150" shows up most often as the "Most Probable Sum" in a 6/49 Lottery Game?

                                                          or to ask the question another way,

              Is the reason why rolling a 1-1 or 6-6 infrequent for the same reason as why a draw of  1-2-3-4-5-6 or 44-45-46-47-48-49 is infrequent in Lottery?

              Still trying to get my head around this one. Your insights appreciated.

              In combinations the order does not matter.

              For one dice the average is 3.5! You can't get that one! I hope to have helped you to some insight to the stupidity of mathematics!

              For 1 to 49, the average is 25. ...

              Every combination has the same chance. It is only that you filter or count the combinations by some criteria.

              Generally, I don't care about sums. You can also order the combinations where the first one is 1 to 6, the second one is 1 to 5 with 7, and so on.
              I put this in VBA and checked out the results. ...

              The drawings generally, roughly fit to the probability scenarios that you can calculate. This for frequencies and skips.

              Rolling a 1-1 is as frequent as rolling a 3-3 or 3-4 if you consider the order of rolling. Guitar

              I will finish by writing a book on the lottery and gambling. Hiding Behind Computer

                SergeM's avatar - slow icon.png
                Economy class
                Belgium
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                Posted: March 17, 2012, 8:01 pm - IP Logged

                Sum-table for eyes of two six faced dices:

                d+d123456
                1234567
                2345678
                3456789
                45678910
                567891011
                6789101112

                6x6=36

                SumsCountGraph
                21l
                32ll
                43lll
                54llll
                65lllll
                76llllll
                85lllll
                94llll
                103lll
                112ll
                121l

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                  Appleton, Wi
                  United States
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                  October 24, 2011
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                  Posted: March 17, 2012, 9:36 pm - IP Logged

                  never thought of adding  up my #s,i'll have to try this.

                  does this also work w/ a 6/40 game like cash 5 ?

                  Haymaker,

                      ...... that's what I'm trying to figure out for myself, if it works or not. You can find "Sums Charts" by Googling "Most Probable Range of Sums".

                  BlueDuck

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                    Appleton, Wi
                    United States
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                    October 24, 2011
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                    Posted: March 17, 2012, 11:15 pm - IP Logged
                    Pick 3 Sum ChartPDFPrintE-mail


                    0 - 000
                    1- 001
                    2 - 002, 011
                    3 - 003, 012, 111
                    4 - 004, 013, 022, 112
                    5 - 005, 014, 023, 113, 122
                    6 - 006, 015, 024, 033, 114, 123, 222
                    7 - 007, 016, 025, 034, 115, 124, 133, 223
                    8 - 008, 017, 026, 035, 044, 116, 125, 134, 224, 233
                    9 - 009, 018, 027, 036, 045, 117, 126, 135, 144, 225, 234, 333
                    10 - 019, 028, 037, 046, 055, 118, 127, 136, 145, 226, 235, 244, 334
                    11 - 029, 038, 047, 056, 119, 128, 137, 146, 155, 227, 236, 245, 335, 344
                    12 - 039, 048, 057, 066, 129, 138, 147, 156, 228, 237, 246, 255, 336, 345, 444
                    13 - 049, 058, 067, 139, 148, 157, 166, 229, 238, 247, 256, 337, 346, 355, 445
                    14 - 059, 068, 077, 149, 158, 167, 239, 248, 257, 266, 338, 347, 356, 446, 455
                    15 - 069, 078, 159, 168, 177, 249, 258, 267, 339, 348, 357, 366, 447, 456, 555
                    16 - 079, 088, 169, 178, 259, 268, 277, 349, 358, 367, 448, 457, 466, 556
                    17 - 089, 179, 188, 269, 278, 359, 368, 377, 449, 458, 467, 557, 566
                    18 - 099, 189, 279, 288, 369, 378, 459, 468, 477, 558, 567, 666
                    19 - 199, 289, 379, 388, 469, 478, 559, 568, 577, 667
                    20 - 299, 389, 479, 488, 569, 578, 668, 677
                    21 - 399, 489, 579, 588, 669, 678, 777
                    22 - 499, 589, 679, 688, 778
                    23 - 599, 689, 779, 788
                    24 - 699, 789, 888
                    25 - 799, 889
                    26 - 899
                    27 - 999

                    Hi Rdgrnr:

                       I'm scratching my head over this problem and my computer got bumped out before I was done so will try it again a little bit latter. Thanks for reply.

                       I'm not convinced it works if all those combinations in the pick three, or other lottery, get picked an equal amount over time.

                       BlueDuck  Troll

                      rdgrnr's avatar - walt
                      Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
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                      Posted: March 17, 2012, 11:38 pm - IP Logged

                      Hi Rdgrnr:

                         I'm scratching my head over this problem and my computer got bumped out before I was done so will try it again a little bit latter. Thanks for reply.

                         I'm not convinced it works if all those combinations in the pick three, or other lottery, get picked an equal amount over time.

                         BlueDuck  Troll

                      You're welcome, BlueDuck.

                      All I can tell you is that whatever theory you decide on, there will be a few who agree and a few who will say you're nuts and both sides will cite facts and figures.

                      Me?

                      I'll just drink a big ol' glass o' whiskey.

                      Cuz that's what I always do.

                      Good luck!


                                                                   
                                           
                                                               

                       

                       

                       

                       

                                                                                                                         

                      "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                                  --Edmund Burke

                       

                       

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                        Appleton, Wi
                        United States
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                        Posted: March 17, 2012, 11:53 pm - IP Logged

                        yeah the 150 is the most common sum, just like 7 is the most common sum on the dice. he confueses the question by mentioning 1 2 3 4 5 6 , if he wants to  bee at cross purposes,  he should mention all the results that sum upto 150,

                         

                        i wont do the math , but on dice there are 6 results in 36, that sum to 7, and only 1 reuslt that sums to 2,

                        on lotoo its similar, so many sums that add to 150,  and onlt 1 sum that adds to 21.

                         

                        try graphing the sums

                        Savagegoose:

                           Thanks for reply. I can understand why "7s" show up more often in Dice, because there are six ways, but there is only one way to make "the winning combination" in a Lottery. Not 5 ways not 150 ways, just one way. Looking for a convincing solution.

                        BlueDuck

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                          Appleton, Wi
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                          October 24, 2011
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                          Posted: March 18, 2012, 12:53 am - IP Logged

                          Rdgrnr,

                             If only half think I'm nuts, then must be doing pretty good.

                          BlueDuck

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                            NY
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                            October 16, 2005
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                            Posted: March 18, 2012, 1:43 am - IP Logged

                            Is the reason why "7s" show up most often in Dice, the same reason why "150" shows up most often as the "Most Probable Sum" in a 6/49 Lottery Game?

                                                                        or to ask the question another way,

                            Is the reason why rolling a 1-1 or 6-6 infrequent for the same reason as why a draw of  1-2-3-4-5-6 or 44-45-46-47-48-49 is infrequent in Lottery?

                            Still trying to get my head around this one. Your insights appreciated.

                            As others have said, the answer to the first question is yes.

                            I'd say the second question is a completely different question because of the way you asked it. 7 and 150 aren't specific results, and can be reached in multiple ways. Even if you view 1+1 and 6+6 as sums, they can only be acheived by rolling one specific combination.  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 is a specific result, and is every bit as likely as any of the specific results that add up to 150.

                            With the dice you can bet on the sum and it won't matter which of thespecific results add up to that sum. The odds and payout will also be different for different sums. With the lottery you don't win anything just because your set of numbers has the same sum as the winning numbers, and the odds and payout are the same, regardless of the sum of the set you bet on. It's more likely that a set that adds up to 150 will be drawn than a set that adds up to 50, because more sets add up to 150 than add up to 50. That means that the sum is a completely meaningless number for 6/49.

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                              Appleton, Wi
                              United States
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                              October 24, 2011
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                              Posted: March 18, 2012, 12:40 pm - IP Logged

                              In combinations the order does not matter.

                              For one dice the average is 3.5! You can't get that one! I hope to have helped you to some insight to the stupidity of mathematics!

                              For 1 to 49, the average is 25. ...

                              Every combination has the same chance. It is only that you filter or count the combinations by some criteria.

                              Generally, I don't care about sums. You can also order the combinations where the first one is 1 to 6, the second one is 1 to 5 with 7, and so on.
                              I put this in VBA and checked out the results. ...

                              The drawings generally, roughly fit to the probability scenarios that you can calculate. This for frequencies and skips.

                              Rolling a 1-1 is as frequent as rolling a 3-3 or 3-4 if you consider the order of rolling. Guitar

                              I will finish by writing a book on the lottery and gambling. Hiding Behind Computer

                              SergeM:

                                 You give me a lot to chew on in your post. If that euphemism didn't translate, I want to say: you give me much to ponder.

                              Thanks,

                              BlueDuck