Nutley, New Jersey United States
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August 1, 2012
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Quote: Originally posted by noise-gate on Apr 25, 2013
Semantics- $1.00 instead of $2.00, come on whiten- if it makes you feel good " you got me there l will do a mea culpa..ok?"
As for defending the lottery, come on.l am merely pointing out the differences. Why does California not follow suit in lottery payouts? Perhaps you should look into it since they do not intend going the same route as other States, is that bad, they don't think so.
I really don't care. Ultimately, people will vote with their wallets. After the first California Powerball drawing, PB sales in California have been languishing and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand why.
Nutley, New Jersey United States
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August 1, 2012
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Quote: Originally posted by maringoman on Apr 25, 2013
I agree. I hope Cali people can end this self discrimination. If the two had recieved $750,000 then it wouldn't have been so bad.
Yes, $750,000 sounds like a decent compromise. I was really excited at the idea of CA joining Powerball because I thought all the new Cali players and their money would help us get larger jackpots quicker but if sales in Cali don't pick up until the PB jackpot is already huge, then there really isn't much of a benefit.
California United States
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June 17, 2011
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Quote: Originally posted by whiteballz on Apr 25, 2013
I really don't care. Ultimately, people will vote with their wallets. After the first California Powerball drawing, PB sales in California have been languishing and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand why.
I agree. I won't play PB anymore. I would compensate that by spending more money on MM and SLP.
Idaho United States
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July 17, 2010
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Quote: Originally posted by KY Floyd on Apr 25, 2013
Maybe you should go back and read your last thread whining about California's parimutuel payouts. You could also pay attention to what you just posted, and see that of 87,389 winning tickets 349 paid about 10% more than they would have in other states. Only 2 of the 87,389 got less than they would have in other states.
The average payouts for California players will be the same as the payouts for players in non-parimutuel states. Unlike those other states, players in California will have the option of paying attention to recent results and making a point of playing when the payout is likely to be more than the standard payout in other states.
Everybody, everwhere, has the option of not playing if they don't like the rules or the likely prizes.
Only 2 of the 87,389 got less than they would have in other states.
Sure, only 2, but they were a BIG 2. I would not be happy if I thought I was supposed to win a million and got less than 1/3 of that. $280K!
NY United States
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October 16, 2005
4,772 Posts
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Quote: Originally posted by JKING on Apr 25, 2013
Hi,
Thanks for taking the time to reply. However, consider this as a California resident who considers the Mega Millions and Powerball payout structure as unfair as compared to the numerous other states.
Extrapolating the figues for Powerball in my previous post..
$1,430,032 short fall for winners x 104 draws per year = $14,872,332 annually. For a billion dollar industry, is this enough to risk the reputation of the California lotterry on?
I can appreciate that you and others associated with the lottery are supportive of the current status.
However, doing so shows that there is apparently a conflict of interest in having the integrity to do the right thing...
Awarding the winners what is standard across the industry.
Getting outdated paramutel laws amended for a national platform.
These are only my opinions.
"Extrapolating the figues for Powerball in my previous post..
$1,430,032 short fall for winners x 104 draws per year= $14,872,332 annually"
First, if you were right about how it will work out, the shortfall would be $104 million, not 14 million. The problem is that besides making the simple arithmetic error, you don't understand the probability that the lottery relies on, or even how the number of winners varies from drawing to drawing.
You started by assuming that there will be 2 winners for every drawing, which simply isn't going to happen. The odds of winning the 5+0 prize is 1 in 5,153,633 and that guarantess that the long term results will be very close to one 5+0 winner for every 5,153,633 tickets sold. In the last drawing they happened to have 2 winners even though they sold far less than 10.3 million tickets. Over time that will be balanced out when they have fewer winners than suggested by the odds. In fact, that's exactly what happened when the first two drawings sold about 7.5 million tickets and produced one 5+0 winner. That winner collected $1.3 million dollars.
The lottery reliably makes 50% of ticket sales for the states because over time probability and the prize structure ensures that the number of winners will closely correlate to the number of tickets sold. Because California has parimutuel payouts the amount that individual winners gets will vary, but other than the possibility of an anomalous payout such as the firtune cookie incident, the average prize that gets paid to 5+0 winners over the course of a year is going to be very close to $1 million.
NY United States
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October 16, 2005
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Quote: Originally posted by HoLeeKau on Apr 25, 2013
Only 2 of the 87,389 got less than they would have in other states.
Sure, only 2, but they were a BIG 2. I would not be happy if I thought I was supposed to win a million and got less than 1/3 of that. $280K!
"I would not be happy if I thought I was supposed to win a million"
The information is readily available for anyone who wants to have a reasonable idea of what they're doing when they play the lottery. If you played PB in California and thought you were "supposed to win a million dollars" there's only one person to blame and it's you. California has been making parimutel payouts for a long time, and that info is easily available. It also would have been easy to make a fairly accurate guess at how many tickets they'd sell and know that even if you were the only winner you'd probably get a lot less than $1 miillion.
That same info will tell you that if nobody wins 5+0 on Saturday night there's a pretty good chance that a winner on Wedneday will get a bit more than $1 million. If there are no winners on Wednesday, there's a fair chance a winner the following Saturday will get more than $1.5 million.
United States
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July 13, 2004
1,207 Posts
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Quote: Originally posted by KY Floyd on Apr 25, 2013
"Extrapolating the figues for Powerball in my previous post..
$1,430,032 short fall for winners x 104 draws per year= $14,872,332 annually"
First, if you were right about how it will work out, the shortfall would be $104 million, not 14 million. The problem is that besides making the simple arithmetic error, you don't understand the probability that the lottery relies on, or even how the number of winners varies from drawing to drawing.
You started by assuming that there will be 2 winners for every drawing, which simply isn't going to happen. The odds of winning the 5+0 prize is 1 in 5,153,633 and that guarantess that the long term results will be very close to one 5+0 winner for every 5,153,633 tickets sold. In the last drawing they happened to have 2 winners even though they sold far less than 10.3 million tickets. Over time that will be balanced out when they have fewer winners than suggested by the odds. In fact, that's exactly what happened when the first two drawings sold about 7.5 million tickets and produced one 5+0 winner. That winner collected $1.3 million dollars.
The lottery reliably makes 50% of ticket sales for the states because over time probability and the prize structure ensures that the number of winners will closely correlate to the number of tickets sold. Because California has parimutuel payouts the amount that individual winners gets will vary, but other than the possibility of an anomalous payout such as the firtune cookie incident, the average prize that gets paid to 5+0 winners over the course of a year is going to be very close to $1 million.
Hi,
Thanks for taking the time to reply KY Floyd.
Here's the thing...The pari-mutuel laws in California are outdated for the national lottery game platform. They need to be amended to fit the industry standard.
The in-state games, which was what the laws were created for, need not be changed or amended.
Why vary a proven business formula that works for all the other states and the players as well? Unless there is the usual motive of squeezing extra money out of deserving people.
Then there are the 5 of 5 winners. I think most people play the big jackpot games because it gives them a chance at a life changing event. If the math says the money will all even out in time, why not have more 5 of 5 winners that get that million dollar life changing event rather than fewer? Tell me that if you were one of those $280k winners that you wouldn't feel screwed knowing that all the other states a paying out a million dollars for that same win. Why have any of 5 of 5 winners feeling like they they were screwed at all? Why would the lottery want to deal with negative press when it should be a win-win event for everybody, every time?
Why play silly games of second guessing when the 5 of 5 award will be high or low? Why not have consistent payouts and get a consistent amount of players playing?
Let me try another angle to get my point across... What's the point of being business lazy (making easy calculated payouts without having to float reserves) when it makes the customer base unhappy and puts the integrity of the business in question?
You are a slave to the choices you have made. jk
Even a blind squirrel will occasionally find an acorn.
There is no elevator to success, you will have to take the stairs.
Los Angeles, California United States
Member #103,809
January 5, 2011
1,530 Posts
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Quote: Originally posted by JKING on Apr 26, 2013
Hi,
Thanks for taking the time to reply KY Floyd.
Here's the thing...The pari-mutuel laws in California are outdated for the national lottery game platform. They need to be amended to fit the industry standard.
The in-state games, which was what the laws were created for, need not be changed or amended.
Why vary a proven business formula that works for all the other states and the players as well? Unless there is the usual motive of squeezing extra money out of deserving people.
Then there are the 5 of 5 winners. I think most people play the big jackpot games because it gives them a chance at a life changing event. If the math says the money will all even out in time, why not have more 5 of 5 winners that get that million dollar life changing event rather than fewer? Tell me that if you were one of those $280k winners that you wouldn't feel screwed knowing that all the other states a paying out a million dollars for that same win. Why have any of 5 of 5 winners feeling like they they were screwed at all? Why would the lottery want to deal with negative press when it should be a win-win event for everybody, every time?
Why play silly games of second guessing when the 5 of 5 award will be high or low? Why not have consistent payouts and get a consistent amount of players playing?
Let me try another angle to get my point across... What's the point of being business lazy (making easy calculated payouts without having to float reserves) when it makes the customer base unhappy and puts the integrity of the business in question?
Why are you so worked up about this? I don't get it. You posted in many threads about this and started a new one here to express your outrage. Why be so unhappy?
I bet this guy who won $1.3M for the first CA PB 5/5 prize is feeling REAL bad. Yeah, he's crying all the way to the bank I'm sure:
And even those poor folks who got *shafted* on the last draw only won $280K, I'll bet they are real angry and p'd off, and getting all lawyered up to sue right now! <not!> I'd be happy with $280K, you, not so much, I guess.
And where is your outrage for all the poor 4/5 winners? They only get $100 for a 4/5 where a Mega Millions player getting 4/5 gets $150? We pay twice as much ($2 versus $1 for MM) for a 4/5 prize which is harder, (1-in-19088 versus 1-in-15033 for MM) and they get 50% more prize? Aarrgggggghhhh! The outrage!!! Call my lawyer!!! Call my Senator!!!
The thing is, you have to understand how the lottery works, how the numbers work. I do, so I don't get worked up about the prize structure. The prize structure, which is separate from the game odds, is manipulated for Sales and Marketing purposes. And you are falling for it. Below is what a "fair" prize would be for each PB non-jackpot prize tier, based on the same profit margin. They *steal* from the middle class prizes in order to pump up the top 1% of prizes, like they do on almost all lottery games.
Prize Tier
PB Prize
Even Prize
5 + 0
$1,000,000
$286,313
4 + PB
$10,000
$36,054
4 + 0
$100
$1,060
3 + PB
$100
$680
3 + 0
$7
$20
2 + PB
$7
$39
1 + PB
$4
$6
PB
$4
$3
Where's the outrage at 4/5 only paying $100 where you should be getting over $1000? And the 5/5 is $280K for a fair prize, so the last two $280K prizes awarded is unf... ooops, my bad.
White Shores- California United States
Member #136,471
December 12, 2012
7,039 Posts
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Quote: Originally posted by Jon D on Apr 26, 2013
Why are you so worked up about this? I don't get it. You posted in many threads about this and started a new one here to express your outrage. Why be so unhappy?
I bet this guy who won $1.3M for the first CA PB 5/5 prize is feeling REAL bad. Yeah, he's crying all the way to the bank I'm sure:
And even those poor folks who got *shafted* on the last draw only won $280K, I'll bet they are real angry and p'd off, and getting all lawyered up to sue right now! <not!> I'd be happy with $280K, you, not so much, I guess.
And where is your outrage for all the poor 4/5 winners? They only get $100 for a 4/5 where a Mega Millions player getting 4/5 gets $150? We pay twice as much ($2 versus $1 for MM) for a 4/5 prize which is harder, (1-in-19088 versus 1-in-15033 for MM) and they get 50% more prize? Aarrgggggghhhh! The outrage!!! Call my lawyer!!! Call my Senator!!!
The thing is, you have to understand how the lottery works, how the numbers work. I do, so I don't get worked up about the prize structure. The prize structure, which is separate from the game odds, is manipulated for Sales and Marketing purposes. And you are falling for it. Below is what a "fair" prize would be for each PB non-jackpot prize tier, based on the same profit margin. They *steal* from the middle class prizes in order to pump up the top 1% of prizes, like they do on almost all lottery games.
Prize Tier
PB Prize
Even Prize
5 + 0
$1,000,000
$286,313
4 + PB
$10,000
$36,054
4 + 0
$100
$1,060
3 + PB
$100
$680
3 + 0
$7
$20
2 + PB
$7
$39
1 + PB
$4
$6
PB
$4
$3
Where's the outrage at 4/5 only paying $100 where you should be getting over $1000? And the 5/5 is $280K for a fair prize, so the last two $280K prizes awarded is unf... ooops, my bad.
Whoa JKing- looks like you got your lunch handed to you there bud..
What's your response to this information?
United States
Member #5,599
July 13, 2004
1,207 Posts
Offline
Quote: Originally posted by Jon D on Apr 26, 2013
Why are you so worked up about this? I don't get it. You posted in many threads about this and started a new one here to express your outrage. Why be so unhappy?
I bet this guy who won $1.3M for the first CA PB 5/5 prize is feeling REAL bad. Yeah, he's crying all the way to the bank I'm sure:
And even those poor folks who got *shafted* on the last draw only won $280K, I'll bet they are real angry and p'd off, and getting all lawyered up to sue right now! <not!> I'd be happy with $280K, you, not so much, I guess.
And where is your outrage for all the poor 4/5 winners? They only get $100 for a 4/5 where a Mega Millions player getting 4/5 gets $150? We pay twice as much ($2 versus $1 for MM) for a 4/5 prize which is harder, (1-in-19088 versus 1-in-15033 for MM) and they get 50% more prize? Aarrgggggghhhh! The outrage!!! Call my lawyer!!! Call my Senator!!!
The thing is, you have to understand how the lottery works, how the numbers work. I do, so I don't get worked up about the prize structure. The prize structure, which is separate from the game odds, is manipulated for Sales and Marketing purposes. And you are falling for it. Below is what a "fair" prize would be for each PB non-jackpot prize tier, based on the same profit margin. They *steal* from the middle class prizes in order to pump up the top 1% of prizes, like they do on almost all lottery games.
Prize Tier
PB Prize
Even Prize
5 + 0
$1,000,000
$286,313
4 + PB
$10,000
$36,054
4 + 0
$100
$1,060
3 + PB
$100
$680
3 + 0
$7
$20
2 + PB
$7
$39
1 + PB
$4
$6
PB
$4
$3
Where's the outrage at 4/5 only paying $100 where you should be getting over $1000? And the 5/5 is $280K for a fair prize, so the last two $280K prizes awarded is unf... ooops, my bad.
Hi,
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
I am not getting worked up. I am simply making an argument about California making the Mega Millions and Powerball games non-uniform from everyone else. As a customer (a California resident), I am putting forth an opinion. If you read some of the responses on this thread, I am not alone in my point of view. If the lottery doesn't want to listen to or care what the customers are saying......
Sorry we are on different sides of the coin when it comes to this issus.
I have empathy for those two 5 of 5 winners who would have gotten $700 K more if they had just been betting in another state (apparently you don't). I've seen some million dollar winners metioned on the national news. But, I've never seen a $280 K winner mentioned on the national news. That brings up another point. The standard payout schedule would have given sales and marketing three million dollars winners to brag about. But, given the California payout structure, they only have one million dollar winner to brag about. How many sales and marketing opportunities are going to be lost at the million dollar level? It looks like 2 lost and 1 gained so far. *L*
When it comes to if any of the payout structures are fair or right, that is a whole other agrument to be discussed on a different thread. My argument is that any national type lottery platform should be uniform no matter where you live.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree when it comes to this issue. *S*
You are a slave to the choices you have made. jk
Even a blind squirrel will occasionally find an acorn.
There is no elevator to success, you will have to take the stairs.
NY United States
Member #23,834
October 16, 2005
4,772 Posts
Offline
Quote: Originally posted by JKING on Apr 26, 2013
Hi,
Thanks for taking the time to reply KY Floyd.
Here's the thing...The pari-mutuel laws in California are outdated for the national lottery game platform. They need to be amended to fit the industry standard.
The in-state games, which was what the laws were created for, need not be changed or amended.
Why vary a proven business formula that works for all the other states and the players as well? Unless there is the usual motive of squeezing extra money out of deserving people.
Then there are the 5 of 5 winners. I think most people play the big jackpot games because it gives them a chance at a life changing event. If the math says the money will all even out in time, why not have more 5 of 5 winners that get that million dollar life changing event rather than fewer? Tell me that if you were one of those $280k winners that you wouldn't feel screwed knowing that all the other states a paying out a million dollars for that same win. Why have any of 5 of 5 winners feeling like they they were screwed at all? Why would the lottery want to deal with negative press when it should be a win-win event for everybody, every time?
Why play silly games of second guessing when the 5 of 5 award will be high or low? Why not have consistent payouts and get a consistent amount of players playing?
Let me try another angle to get my point across... What's the point of being business lazy (making easy calculated payouts without having to float reserves) when it makes the customer base unhappy and puts the integrity of the business in question?
The laws of probability say that California would be perfectly safe having fixed prize amounts, nut the legislators apparently have some issue with it. Mayne they've got some completely illogical reason for having parimutuel payouts, or maybe they just can't grasp the math. California may be better than some other states, but there are definitely a lot of legislators who apparently don't understand science.
If I was in California I'd be paying attention to whether or not there were any 5+0 winners for the previous drawing or two. I don't play MM or PB at the starting jackpots anyway, so I'd make the chance of winning a bigger 5+0 prize a factor in deciding to play.