Welcome Guest
Log In | Register )
You last visited December 9, 2016, 5:30 am
All times shown are
Eastern Time (GMT-5:00)

How is this not a massive fraud by the Florida Lottery?

Topic closed. 38 replies. Last post 2 years ago by datamon414.

Page 2 of 3
51
PrintE-mailLink
Avatar
New Member
Florida
United States
Member #165004
March 22, 2015
25 Posts
Offline
Posted: March 23, 2015, 8:08 pm - IP Logged

Ron, just the opposite-- the Florida Lottery had record breaking sales of scratch off tickets for two weeks in a row and they have posted press releases to that fact on their website.  The record breaking weeks were the week after this 10 million dollar scratch off was announced.  They had two really good weeks of ticket sales and they've sold millions of tickets.  The prizes were reduced after that initial marketing push that resulted in these record breaking sales.  Obviously 25% of the prizes were never in that prize pool to be won if they could recall it so quickly.  They are adjusting the figures going into week 4 of this game, not even a month since the initial launch.  I think the game plan was to do a media blitz and sell a bazillion tickets and then reduce the prizes quietly like they have done, as there is no publicity about the fact the prizes available are 25% less than what was originally advertised.  They got their loot and now they are reneging on what they promoted.  I don't think it is a matter of winning tickets being recalled, I don't think the winning tickets that have "disappeared" from the prize pool were ever distributed out in the general public to be won.  I think it is a complete sham and a lie that was perpetuated to sell a large number of tickets at the launch of this game.   If you look at the Florida website, there are still scratch off games out there from 2010... to alter the winning pool in less than a month for this game is nothing but fraud.  I can see altering stats and prizes on "old" games that have been out a long time and that the lottery wants to close out, but not for a massively marketing scratch off promotion that is less than a month old.  There was never any intention on their part to actually offer the full boatload of prizes they promoted.  They never distributed the 25% of the big prize tickets that were advertised at the launch of this campaign.

    maringoman's avatar - images q=tbn:ANd9GcTbRxpKQmOfcCoUqF2FyqIOAwDo7rg9G-lfJLAALPGWJWwiz19eRw
    Massachusetts
    United States
    Member #37433
    April 14, 2006
    2747 Posts
    Offline
    Posted: March 23, 2015, 8:31 pm - IP Logged

    The least anybody ready to criticize this guy could do is first of all read the complaint and do some basic investigation.

    Florida Lottery still has a webpage informing players that there are 4, $10M prizes and 46, $1M prizes on the game $10,000,000 Florida Cash. At the bottom of the page that has the info on Top Prizes remaining there is a   Note: Games may be reordered, and top prizes may increase proportionally. 

    This is crazy. Why can't they take possession of the entire tickets for that game like most states do and keep them in their warehouse? OR inform players that $10,000,000 Florida Cash game has 3 top prizes of $10M and 35 additional prizes of $1M.

    Yeah, I stay the heck away from scratch offs and if I lived in Florida, I would never buy a scratch off there.

    That money's gone fo ever

      Avatar
      Kentucky
      United States
      Member #32652
      February 14, 2006
      7314 Posts
      Offline
      Posted: March 23, 2015, 11:53 pm - IP Logged

      The least anybody ready to criticize this guy could do is first of all read the complaint and do some basic investigation.

      Florida Lottery still has a webpage informing players that there are 4, $10M prizes and 46, $1M prizes on the game $10,000,000 Florida Cash. At the bottom of the page that has the info on Top Prizes remaining there is a   Note: Games may be reordered, and top prizes may increase proportionally. 

      This is crazy. Why can't they take possession of the entire tickets for that game like most states do and keep them in their warehouse? OR inform players that $10,000,000 Florida Cash game has 3 top prizes of $10M and 35 additional prizes of $1M.

      Yeah, I stay the heck away from scratch offs and if I lived in Florida, I would never buy a scratch off there.

      "Why can't they take possession of the entire tickets for that game like most states do and keep them in their warehouse?"

      That makes sense if state lotteries have money trees growing in their backyards, but since they don't somebody has to pay for those $10 million and $1 million prizes. How many people will play if all the top prizes are gone the first month of sales?

      It's not just Florida, but most state lotteries delay top prize distribution on the high jackpot scratch-offs. Players can't win 3 top prizes on one ticket so as long as there is "1" unclaimed top prize winner, every ticket still has a chance.

        Avatar
        New Member

        United States
        Member #165056
        March 24, 2015
        1 Posts
        Offline
        Posted: March 24, 2015, 10:36 am - IP Logged

        Hi, I've been playing the new $10,000,000 scratch off for the past few days and I also noticed EXACTLY what you had said!! The top prize went from 1 of 4 to 2 of 3. I thought it was a misprint or something!! I sent an email to the Florida Lottery yesterday and here's their reply this morning, which I don't think really clarifies anything:

         

        "Hi, I CHECKED THE TOP PRIZES REMAINING THIS MORNING TUESDAY, MARCH 24, 2015 AND THE FOLLOWING WAS LISTED

        $10,000,000 Florida Cash  3 of 4*

        $10,000,000 Florida Cash 30 of 35*

        (Special Note: The * Denotes games that have been reordered or have been delivered to the Florida Lottery in more than one shipment). Thank you.

         

        Marvin Campbell | Sales Operations Manager | Florida Lottery

        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        I guess due to the initial wave of publicity and having so many winners to start, they are now limiting the top prizes now for awhile. Your thoughts?

          RedStang's avatar - tallman zps6gf4inoc.jpg
          NY
          United States
          Member #121961
          January 21, 2012
          3157 Posts
          Offline
          Posted: March 24, 2015, 11:35 am - IP Logged

          This is a common problem with the scratch offs that they know most players don't look at. They should only be allowed to advertise what's available. Even if they printed 50 prizes, most of them would be sitting in a warehouse somewhere.

            duckman's avatar - ducklogodrake64x64
            Jacksonville Florida
            United States
            Member #23018
            October 6, 2005
            918 Posts
            Offline
            Posted: March 24, 2015, 12:25 pm - IP Logged

            Rarely do they decrease the number of prizes. Wonder if the original numbers were incorrect? It wouldn't be the first time numbers on the stats page were not right.

            The odds of winning a major prize will not change because of the way the tickets are created and distributed. If there are 4 top prizes, each top prize is divided among 4 ticket groupings. Groupings are distributed one at a time, so you will never see all 4 top prizes won in the same time frame because all 4 top prizes are never in play at the same time.

            Even if the lottery decides to eliminate 25% of the tickets, or 1 grouping of tickets, exactly 1 top prize will be eliminated along with all the statistical losing tickets in that grouping...the overall odds do not change at all. Just fewer tickets, both winners AND losers...

              Avatar
              New Member
              Florida
              United States
              Member #165004
              March 22, 2015
              25 Posts
              Offline
              Posted: March 24, 2015, 5:38 pm - IP Logged

              REPLY TO dc3149 

               

              I filed a complaint with the Inspector General listed on the Florida Lottery website and I also sent a complaint to a different state regulating agency and I also contacted several news outlets asking them to investigate.  I don't think there is any misprint.  I think it is outright lies and deception.  They did a big blow out marketing campaign when this contest launched on 2/24/15 and they did it to generate ticket sales.  They sold millions of tickets since the program launched.  They had two record breaking weeks in a row in scratch off sales in Florida (not just this ticket, all scratch off tickets).  The goal was to get as much money as soon as possible from us suckers, and only now are they revealing that they have pulled 25% of the top prizes.  They did not publicize that reduction and they are still using their old original statements about 4 - 10 million and 46 1-million dollar prizes as late as the press release posted on 3/20/15, but they have quietly changed the info on the "remaining prizes" page.   They sold millions of tickets based on those prizes and obviously 25% of those prizes were never out in the prize pool to be won if they can just be yanked back at a moments notice.  It's fraud, pure and simple.  Get the suckers to buy into a dream of winning a prize that is not out there to be won.  I also don't believe (like the one of the replies to this thread says) that they will pull a batch of losing tickets as well as the winning tickets.  Um, no, I don't think they are going to do that.  They'll leave those loser tickets out there because their big thing is that they fund education in the state of Florida so they have to sell tickets and keep the suckers buying because a lot of the other funding for education has been redirected in recent years and replaced with the anticipated chunk of revenue the lottery generates.  The state needs people to keep buying but the prizes are going back on the shelf.

                maringoman's avatar - images q=tbn:ANd9GcTbRxpKQmOfcCoUqF2FyqIOAwDo7rg9G-lfJLAALPGWJWwiz19eRw
                Massachusetts
                United States
                Member #37433
                April 14, 2006
                2747 Posts
                Offline
                Posted: March 24, 2015, 6:17 pm - IP Logged

                "Why can't they take possession of the entire tickets for that game like most states do and keep them in their warehouse?"

                That makes sense if state lotteries have money trees growing in their backyards, but since they don't somebody has to pay for those $10 million and $1 million prizes. How many people will play if all the top prizes are gone the first month of sales?

                It's not just Florida, but most state lotteries delay top prize distribution on the high jackpot scratch-offs. Players can't win 3 top prizes on one ticket so as long as there is "1" unclaimed top prize winner, every ticket still has a chance.

                I'll ignore that part of money growing on trees.

                The states never sell their top prizes on scratch offs all at once so lottery taking possession of cards in batches doesn't make much sense.  The algorithms they use when printing out the winners and distributing the top prize winners ensures that the winners are staggered throughout the lifecycle of the game. They don't have to hold back on one $10M and the 11 prizes $1M because even the three $10M and 35 prizes $1M will  not be won early on the in the game.

                That money's gone fo ever

                  duckman's avatar - ducklogodrake64x64
                  Jacksonville Florida
                  United States
                  Member #23018
                  October 6, 2005
                  918 Posts
                  Offline
                  Posted: March 24, 2015, 9:01 pm - IP Logged

                  I'll ignore that part of money growing on trees.

                  The states never sell their top prizes on scratch offs all at once so lottery taking possession of cards in batches doesn't make much sense.  The algorithms they use when printing out the winners and distributing the top prize winners ensures that the winners are staggered throughout the lifecycle of the game. They don't have to hold back on one $10M and the 11 prizes $1M because even the three $10M and 35 prizes $1M will  not be won early on the in the game.

                  Exactly...

                  Unless there is only 1 top prize for a game, all the top prizes are never in play all at once because all groupings of tickets are not in play at the same time. If the lottery does not release one grouping, or batch, then the odds are exactly the same as they were with more or less groupings.

                  That being said, I can also understand what the original poster was saying about advertising and promoting a certain number of top prizes and then changing it to fewer top prizes. The psychological effect of more prizes may make the game more appealing to some, even though their odds have not changed at all...

                  It would be interesting to know why they changed it the number of prizes, whether it was a mistake, a flawed grouping of tickets, or whatever else...

                    Avatar
                    Wyomissing, PA
                    United States
                    Member #161050
                    November 15, 2014
                    301 Posts
                    Offline
                    Posted: March 24, 2015, 9:25 pm - IP Logged

                    To echo your sentiments about pulling entire batches. No need, they could just pull the specific packs containing the big winners. I've heard too many stories over the years, including from lottery clerks, of lotteries instructing packs to be removed immediately, or more rarely, a lottery rep showing up to personally retrieve specific packs with little to no advance notice. Could be tall tales, but not so sure given the desperation of lotteries to generate and grow revenue.

                    To digress a bit, why do some states, such as New Mexico with a 90 days claim window, only allow a short period of time to collect a prize? Presumably, hoping the winner doesn't come forward in time boosting profits...

                    So I don't put it past lotteries to play fast and loose with instant ticket prize distributions. I'd wager many states quietly adjust quantities downward on some games with no one being the wiser - seems this time, for whatever reason, Florida Lottery didn't hide it; maybe just a glitch.

                    With all that said, there are players who do win the big prizes. So it's not a matter of no one winning, but rather the real odds may be far worse than the advertised odds - and that's the crux of the issue of this thread.

                      Avatar
                      Kentucky
                      United States
                      Member #32652
                      February 14, 2006
                      7314 Posts
                      Offline
                      Posted: March 24, 2015, 9:29 pm - IP Logged

                      I'll ignore that part of money growing on trees.

                      The states never sell their top prizes on scratch offs all at once so lottery taking possession of cards in batches doesn't make much sense.  The algorithms they use when printing out the winners and distributing the top prize winners ensures that the winners are staggered throughout the lifecycle of the game. They don't have to hold back on one $10M and the 11 prizes $1M because even the three $10M and 35 prizes $1M will  not be won early on the in the game.

                      "The states never sell their top prizes on scratch offs all at once so lottery taking possession of cards in batches doesn't make much sense."

                      And that's probably is why the Florida Lottery distributed three of the four top prize winners. From the website:  PLEASE NOTE: Prizes, including the top prizes, may be unavailable at time of ticket purchase due to prior sale or other causes occurring in the normal course of business.

                      "the winners are staggered throughout the lifecycle of the game."

                      And the only way that is possible is to not distribute all the tickets at the same time. It looks like three of the four $10 million prize winners were distributed and the fourth will be distributed later. 

                      "They don't have to hold back on one $10M and the 11 prizes $1M because even the three $10M and 35 prizes $1M will  not be won early on the in the game."

                      If the winning tickets were distributed and are in the stores, there is nothing preventing players from buying and winning with those tickets. Anything can happen if the tickets are randomly distributed which includes all three top prizes being sold.

                      The lottery will need sales of at least $65 million just to payoff the advertised four $10 million prizes and make their profit. It should be obvious they won't sell that many tickets if all the top prizes are won in the first couple of months. Maybe you can explain what difference it makes if one of the four advertised prizes wasn't distributed when two of those four prizes are still out there to be won.

                        Avatar
                        Kentucky
                        United States
                        Member #32652
                        February 14, 2006
                        7314 Posts
                        Offline
                        Posted: March 24, 2015, 9:41 pm - IP Logged

                        Exactly...

                        Unless there is only 1 top prize for a game, all the top prizes are never in play all at once because all groupings of tickets are not in play at the same time. If the lottery does not release one grouping, or batch, then the odds are exactly the same as they were with more or less groupings.

                        That being said, I can also understand what the original poster was saying about advertising and promoting a certain number of top prizes and then changing it to fewer top prizes. The psychological effect of more prizes may make the game more appealing to some, even though their odds have not changed at all...

                        It would be interesting to know why they changed it the number of prizes, whether it was a mistake, a flawed grouping of tickets, or whatever else...

                        My guess is the original poster doesn't understand how scratch-off tickets are distributed. And they might not understand that one ticket can only win one top prize.

                          Taurus$'s avatar - Lottery-043.jpg
                          Ft. Washington, MD
                          United States
                          Member #159267
                          September 20, 2014
                          123 Posts
                          Offline
                          Posted: March 24, 2015, 11:35 pm - IP Logged

                          My guess is the original poster doesn't understand how scratch-off tickets are distributed. And they might not understand that one ticket can only win one top prize.

                          Stack i think the real problem here is not a lot of players realize the lotteries are doing a mind game on us. Just look at VA. I been playing some of their scratch offs but my god they are flooding their market with sooooo many of them. I have been looking at their charts of winners and noticed that the smaller prizes have been going out in the thousands but the tops remain moot. THAT tells me the tops are not really in circulation but with so many other scratchers top prizes they got to cover, they can't afford too many tops to win. So hence they say a top prize has been won on a scratcher but hasn't really been won. Wink Wink Wink

                            Avatar
                            New Member
                            Florida
                            United States
                            Member #165004
                            March 22, 2015
                            25 Posts
                            Offline
                            Posted: March 30, 2015, 12:15 pm - IP Logged

                            So, after posting my question about the disappearing prizes on the Florida Lottery Instagram account appearing on their main page, their response was not to answer the question but to block my account and drop me as a "follower" on the Instagram page. 

                            I think the Florida Lottery is a huge rip off, a scam, a bogus scheme at the governmental level to suck money out of people's wallet and not deliver on the prizes advertised.  The contest I refer to is their "10 million Florida Cash" scratch off that launched on 2/24/2015.  The advertising stated over 11 million in prizes, including four 10-million dollar winners and 46 one million dollar winners.  They then quietly lowered that prize pool by 25% on the "remaining prizes" webpage of the Florida Lottery while also continuing to send out press releases and post those press releases on their website trumpeting the 4/46 winners when the "remaining prizes" page stated it was now "2 out of 3" (not 4) 10 million dollar winners and "30 out of 35" (not the original 46) million dollar prizes.  This is 21 million missing, 25%.    In the last couple of days they have re-adjusted the page to show the original amount of prizes without explanation and deleted my access to their contest page.  Obviously they have no intention of answering where the 21 million went or why prizes were reduced 3 weeks into this scratch off promotion after they had generated millions in sales.

                            There is no integrity and no transparency.  If there was transparency as they claim on their website, they would not be blocking my account, nor would they ignore a legitimate question about their massive drop in the prize pool after advertising prizes that were 21 million dollars higher.  This is a scam perpetuated by the state because the state has used the lottery to fund education and diverted whatever original budget was set aside for education to other things.  This is it for the education budget in Florida.  The stakes are high, the fraud is massive and there doesn't seem to be a single entity willing to root out the obvious fraud and opaqueness the lottery is allowed to cloak itself in while claiming 'transparency'.  Meanwhile the suckers continue to buy the tickets.

                              zephbe's avatar - animal butterfly.jpg
                              South Carolina
                              United States
                              Member #77167
                              July 15, 2009
                              556 Posts
                              Offline
                              Posted: March 30, 2015, 12:52 pm - IP Logged

                              Stack i think the real problem here is not a lot of players realize the lotteries are doing a mind game on us. Just look at VA. I been playing some of their scratch offs but my god they are flooding their market with sooooo many of them. I have been looking at their charts of winners and noticed that the smaller prizes have been going out in the thousands but the tops remain moot. THAT tells me the tops are not really in circulation but with so many other scratchers top prizes they got to cover, they can't afford too many tops to win. So hence they say a top prize has been won on a scratcher but hasn't really been won. Wink Wink Wink

                              The lottery controls when and where the big prize tickets go on sale.  That is why I don't buy scratch offs.  Draw games can't be manipulated like that.

                              Every champion was once a contender who refused to give up.-Rocky Balboa

                              “Don’t let someone who gave up on their dreams talk you out of going after yours.” – Zig Ziglar