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Cash 4 Life Coming to PA. For current players in Other States, this is Bad!

Topic closed. 28 replies. Last post 2 years ago by OrangeCrush.

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Wyomissing, PA
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November 15, 2014
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Posted: March 27, 2015, 11:02 pm - IP Logged

PA Lottery announces Cash 4 Life coming soon. Usually, a multi-jurisdictional game expanding is a good thing for both lotteries and players. However, in regards to Cash 4 Life, the opposite is true. The more lotteries that offer Cash 4 Life, the worse it gets for players... and in the long-run, for lotteries too.

If there's more than one top prize winner, the $1,000 a day for life top prize is automatically shared. Lower tier prizes can also easily split. So the more who play, the more likely of the top payouts being reduced! To put it another way, Cash 4 Life has a nasty flaw in that it doesn't scale.

Lotteries who join Cash 4 Life see easy money, but run the of risk of upsetting players; furthering the perception of the lottery being a rip-off.

While Cash 4 Life has an overall payout of 55%, which is better than most other number draw games, and shows much promise, the prize structure should be adjusted to take into account the larger player pool. Failure to do that will likely doom the game long-term - time will tell.

Personally, I'll try the game out when PA starts offering it soon, but will be leery of playing it much. Welcome thoughts.

    Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
    Zeta Reticuli Star System
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    Posted: March 27, 2015, 11:18 pm - IP Logged

    Are you talking about a state game, Cash 4 Life? Or is it a NY-PA game?

    Kentucky is the latest state to get Lucky For Life, they're not the same game.

    Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

    Lep

    There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

      ThatScaryChick's avatar - x1MqPuM
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      Posted: March 27, 2015, 11:59 pm - IP Logged

      I don't mind the Lucky for Life game. I only buy one ticket every now and then, but I hope they don't change the matrix to make it harder to win prizes since more states continue to join. I don't even think there has been a jackpot winner since the change in January.

      "No one remembers the person who almost climbed the mountain, only the person who eventually gets to the top."

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        Wyomissing, PA
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        Posted: March 28, 2015, 12:34 am - IP Logged

        Are you talking about a state game, Cash 4 Life? Or is it a NY-PA game?

        Kentucky is the latest state to get Lucky For Life, they're not the same game.

        Talking about Cash 4 Life, but thank you for point out Lucky For Life. I didn't realize that game still existed. Thought it was being rolled into one, but looks to not be the case. From doing a little more reading, it appears Cash 4 Life will include New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, and Virginia in the near future.

        With that said, both games are similar in many respects, including splitting their respective jackpot prizes, if more than one player wins. Both Cash 4 Life and Lucky For Life don't scale. The more who play those games, the worse the potential top prize payouts are for players. It's likely most won't notice, but savvy players very much will.

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          Posted: March 28, 2015, 6:23 am - IP Logged

          Talking about Cash 4 Life, but thank you for point out Lucky For Life. I didn't realize that game still existed. Thought it was being rolled into one, but looks to not be the case. From doing a little more reading, it appears Cash 4 Life will include New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, and Virginia in the near future.

          With that said, both games are similar in many respects, including splitting their respective jackpot prizes, if more than one player wins. Both Cash 4 Life and Lucky For Life don't scale. The more who play those games, the worse the potential top prize payouts are for players. It's likely most won't notice, but savvy players very much will.

          Thanks for the heads up Ron ... I was excited about this news when I read your first post ... then reality sunk in.

          I was hoping it would be a PA game only ... when other states join it doesn't look all that great ... also it costs $2.00 a ticket ... that much I was able to find out.

          I can't find (yet) much news about it, how many numbers in the total matrix, how many have to be hit to win the jackpot ... five, six ... more.

          I'm tired of spending $2.00 on games ... $2 here, $2 there ... pretty soon you're talking real money.

          PA is big enough to have this game on it's own ... look how the PA Match 6 (6/49) game keeps getting hit ... it finally reached $1 million again this past Monday (Mar 23) and got hit again ... so back to $500,000 this past Thursday ... it used to get to $4 million and then $2 million and now only around $1 million before being hit.

          I think the Cash 4 Life game might have been good just for PA only ... enough players in the state.

          With the ticket price being $2 and the other states also in on the game, I may not be playing ... I will buy Match 6 tickets ... but I don't know the odds or matrix of Cash 4 Life ... but sharing the jackpot ... so do I understand you correctly, if four people win the jackpot, they get $250 a day each for life? I'm not fully understanding the game ... 100 people hit the jackpot and they each get $10 a day for life ???

          Can you go into more detail ... how many numbers total and how many needed to win the jackpot ??? ... what is the second prize and lower prizes. I will keep looking for news.

          CW

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            Wyomissing, PA
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            Posted: March 28, 2015, 6:54 am - IP Logged

            Yep, as a PA only game, the jackpot splitting would be mostly a non-issue. Sure, a split could happen, but extremely unlikely. Anyone doubting that need only look at Match 6, even when the jackpot is high, most always has only one jackpot winner.

            Cash 4 Life is over 4 times more difficult than Match 6 at a mind boggling 1 in ~21 million. While that reduces the chance of a jackpot split verses Match 6, the number of potential players could easily be over 4 times more offsetting that. Add in a few more states, and jackpot splits are nearly inevitable. While many would argue that even 1/2 or 1/3 of $1000 a day for life is still a great prize, there's also the possibly of lower top prize tiers splitting too.

            Cash4Life odds from NY Lottery:


            If your 5 numbers plus the Cash Ball match the winning numbers drawn, then you win or share the First Prize.*

            PRIZE LEVEL
            WINNING NUMBERS MATCHED PER GAME
            CHANCES OF WINNING PER GAME
            PRIZE
            First
            5 + Cash Ball
            1 in: 21,846,048
            $1,000 a day for Life
            Second
            5
            1 in: 7,282,016
            $1,000 a week for Life
            Third
            4 + Cash Ball
            1 in: 79,440
            $2,500
            Fourth
            4
            1 in: 26,480
            $500
            Fifth
            3 + Cash Ball
            1 in: 1,471
            $100
            Sixth
            3
            1 in: 490
            $25
            Seventh
            2 + Cash Ball
            1 in: 83
            $10
            Eighth
            2
            1 in: 28
            $4
            Ninth
            1 + Cash Ball
            1 in: 13
            $2

            *Note: Top prize will be divided equally among multiple top prize winners. Prize levels 2 through 9 may be reduced if liability caps are exceeded. Refer to the Official Game Rules and Regulations for a detailed explanation.

            To digress a bit, both Powerball and Mega Millions with odds upwards of 8 to 11 times worse, respectively, have both experienced numerous pre-mature jackpot hits. Astronomical odds alone aren't a guarantee as MUSL found out the costly way with MMC. More who play MM and PB, the more the jackpot grows, which generally benefits players. More who play Cash 4 Life, and likewise with Lucky For Life, the better the chance of the jackpot splitting, which hurts players; less money for winners.

             

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              Posted: March 28, 2015, 6:58 am - IP Logged

              I guess this is not a new game ... I see from Google that this game is already playing in various states, I had never heard of it before ... thought it was a completely new game starting in PA.

              I think I have the information I was looking for ... I'm not really excited about it ... the odds are worse than a regular 6/49 game.

              1 in: 21,846,048 -- $1,000 a day for Life

              ... I'd play if it was only $1 but not $2 ... I'll stick with Match 6 game odds but I could change my mind in the future.

              * Ron ... I didn't know you had already posted some information as I was typing out this post ... thanks.

              CW

                Think's avatar - lightbulb
                Marquette, MI
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                Posted: March 28, 2015, 9:34 pm - IP Logged

                Cash 4 life is a scratcher in most states.  I guess to avoid confusion the new Michigan Cash for Life scratchers are changing their names to

                $500, $1000,$2500 and $5000 a week for life instead of Cash for Life.  These appear to be replacing the $400, $800, $2000 and $4000 per week Cash for Life scratchers here.

                The only real thing that Lucky for Life and Cash for Life draws have going for them are that they are on Mondays and Thursdays.

                If I were doing it, I would have just switched the in state games to Monday/Thursday instead of adding more games but I guess the lotteries are
                just trying to implode from having too many games to play.

                  GiveFive's avatar - Lottery-026.jpg
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                  Posted: March 29, 2015, 7:45 am - IP Logged

                  I'm a New York State resident and I rarely play Cash 4 Life.  I'm not exactly sure when the game began here in NY,  it might be six months old. 

                  I started to play it when it first came out, but the odds and 2 dollars per line soon turned me off.  I didn't consider the fact that the game doesn't scale.  It never occurred to me that as states were added it would not be a good thing.

                  As for Lucky For Life, that game is not available here in New York, but it's available in nearby Connecticut.  I have a reason to go to Connecticut fairly regularly (even if I didn't, CT is only about a 30 minute drive) and I was playing that game for a while, but not any more.  To be honest, I think I may have been playing it more because it was an out of state game than anything else. I was playing it when it first came out a few years ago, but it too eventually failed to retain my interest. 

                  Yesterday, I returned home from North Carolina.  I spent a week there, and while we were driving down there, I played Pick5 games from the state lotteries in PA, MD, VA and NC.  I have to say that I found Carolina Cash5 to be a very fun and refreshing Pick 5 game.  The NY Lottery could learn a lot from NC.  G5

                  About playing the lottery --  You will lose more than you win. Until you hit a jackpot.  Then everything changes!

                    mediabrat's avatar - 18z0typ
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                    Posted: March 30, 2015, 12:44 am - IP Logged

                    Cash 4 Life (and Lucky For Life, for that matter) rarely gets won as it is.  Perhaps it's too early to worry about multiple winners?

                    Patriot

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                      Wyomissing, PA
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                      Posted: March 30, 2015, 2:01 pm - IP Logged

                      Cash 4 Life (and Lucky For Life, for that matter) rarely gets won as it is.  Perhaps it's too early to worry about multiple winners?

                      Very true. However, as more lotteries join, the odds of a jackpot split will increase. Main reason I raise the issue is to illustrate there's a flaw in the game, which is counter-intuitive - the more who play, worse the payouts potentially get. Generally not what one expects for a multi-jurisdictional game.

                      Many players assume such games are well researched, simulated, etc prior to release. And yet numerous games have been released having serious, yet often obvious, flaws. Monopoly Millionaire's Club major flaw was the assumption millions would play and that the slim odds of anyone hitting the "Top Prize" would protect the game. Didn't pan out that way, leading to the game being promptly suspended. Many predicted that would occur right on this very forum.

                      The most serious flawed lottery game I've ever seen was the original Texas All or Nothing. Distributed playslips included pre-selected options (1-12; 13-24; all even; all odd) that many players inevitably chose. Severe lack of number diversity combined with the nasty flaw of no liability cap. Needless to say after a drawing in which one of the pre-selected options nearly came up completely, Texas Lottery promptly suspended the game, changed the playslips, and added a liability cap. Based on my estimate, the prize liability for some of the pre-selected choices could have been as high as 1/4 $Billion! They dodged a bullet...

                      Rambling on, but point is the flaws are often very obvious to savvy players well in advance. I spotted the Texas All or Nothing flaw right away and wondered how long it would last; what would happen if there was a big hit.

                      Another issue with Cash 4 Life is the lower tier prizes can also split. While that also can occur in other games, it seems more probable in Cash 4 Life. An excerpt from the NY Lottery lottery rules - note many occurrences of "unless a liability limit would be exceeded", but it's not clearly indicated as to what it exactly is. Not a good sign.

                      (h) Prize Liability Limits. In the event that a liability limit would be exceeded for a particular draw, the prize amounts for each level shall be adjusted in accordance with a formula established by the party lotteries so that the aggregate liability for prizes in such draw shall not exceed the liability limit.

                      (1) Jackpot prize level. A jackpot prize payout shall be divided equally among the number of jackpot winning plays as set forth in this paragraph.

                      (i) One jackpot prize winner. If there is one jackpot prize winner, the annuitized prize value shall be $7,000 per week for life and the lump sum payment shall be based on the measuring life of the winner.

                      (ii) Two to 14 jackpot prize-winning plays. If there is more than one and less than or equal to 14 jackpot prize-winning plays, the annuitized payment option, based on a total annuitized prize value of $7,000 per week, shall be divided by the total number of jackpot prize-winning plays. Any of these winners may choose the lump sum option as an alternative to the annuitized payment option, pursuant to subdivision (g) of this section. The amount of a lump sum option for this prize category shall be the amount of the lump sum option if there were only one winner, divided by the total number of jackpot prize winning plays.

                      (iii) Fifteen or more jackpot prize-winning plays. If there are more than 14 jackpot prize-winning plays, the aggregate jackpot prize liability shall be the liability limit and shall be divided equally among all jackpot prize-winning plays and paid in one lump sum payment to each winner, without an annuitized payment option. The minimum jackpot prize value shall be not less than any lower-tier prize in regard to the same drawing.

                      (2) Second-level prizes. A second-level prize payout shall be paid as follows:

                      (i) Each winning play shall be paid $52,000 per year for life or a lump-sum payment based on the measuring life of such claimant, unless a liability limit would be exceeded.

                      (ii) The minimum prize value for a second-level prize shall be not less than any lower-tier prize in regard to the same drawing.

                      (iii) If a prize liability limit is exceeded and the annuity prize value of second-prize falls below $500 per week for life all winning plays will be paid in one lump sum payment to each winner, without an annuitized payment option.

                      (3) A third-level prize shall be paid as a $2,500 lump sum payment, unless a liability limit would be exceeded. A third-level prize shall be rounded to the nearest whole dollar.

                      (4) Each of the prize levels from four through nine shall be paid as a set, lump sum payment, as set forth in paragraph (3) of subdivision (f) of this section, unless a liability limit would be exceeded.

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                        Wyomissing, PA
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                        Posted: April 6, 2015, 8:08 pm - IP Logged

                        Cash4Life sales in Pennsylvania start tomorrow Apr-7th. Cash option, subject to periodic change, for Top Prize is $7 million and for 2nd prize is $1 million.

                        Not keen on the Top Prize sharing nor the seemingly tight, convoluted prize liability limits; game doesn't scale - more who play, worse the payouts can get.

                        However, definitely going to try Cash4Life out, and occasionally play it.

                        My hunch is it will be around for awhile and then be reworked / replaced with something else. Doesn't seem like a longevity game. Many players will tire of winning mostly break-even $2 and $4 prizes with maybe a $10 and $25 occasionally.

                        Though, some Top Prize hit early on will help sales, but at 1 in ~21 million, it's possible the game could go months with no big winner. And even then, many people, much as one already sees with PB & MM, may be discouraged playing, if the big winners always seem to be from elsewhere, such as New York, New Jersey, and later this year, Virginia.

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                          Posted: April 7, 2015, 7:25 pm - IP Logged

                          I quit MM going for cash 4 life.Big Smile

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                            Posted: April 8, 2015, 8:45 pm - IP Logged

                            Ron, Is there a list of avg hits per year for grand prize? By state?

                            I mean no disrepect to those who wish anonymity yet would be curious how often its actually hit in a years time and which state claimed it?

                            In my home state-PA I am giving it a go for a few plays. I actually did well on the Monopoly game (despite public opinion, I faired well). Just curious if even the 1k a week is hit often?

                            ~~Is it true, Is it kind,Is it necessary. ~~~

                            christmas holly jolly numbers: 255,303,6911, 474,477 silver:47,gold:79.

                              RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
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                              Posted: April 9, 2015, 4:16 pm - IP Logged

                              Talking about Cash 4 Life, but thank you for point out Lucky For Life. I didn't realize that game still existed. Thought it was being rolled into one, but looks to not be the case. From doing a little more reading, it appears Cash 4 Life will include New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, and Virginia in the near future.

                              With that said, both games are similar in many respects, including splitting their respective jackpot prizes, if more than one player wins. Both Cash 4 Life and Lucky For Life don't scale. The more who play those games, the worse the potential top prize payouts are for players. It's likely most won't notice, but savvy players very much will.

                              "The more who play those games, the worse the potential top prize payouts are for players. It's likely most won't notice, but savvy players very much will."

                              A lot of the newer lottery games aren't meant for savvy players, but until they have a large enough audience to produce multiple jackpot winners that shouldn't be a problem.  There could be a problem with multiple second prize winners, especially if there are more than two at the same time quite often.  Sounds like the top prizes payout will be the same regardless of the number of tickets sold which could make it a real money maker for the states if enough people buy tickets.

                               * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                                 
                                           Evil Looking