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Cash 4 Life Coming to PA. For current players in Other States, this is Bad!

Topic closed. 28 replies. Last post 2 years ago by OrangeCrush.

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Kentucky
United States
Member #32652
February 14, 2006
7547 Posts
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Posted: April 9, 2015, 9:25 pm - IP Logged

"The more who play those games, the worse the potential top prize payouts are for players. It's likely most won't notice, but savvy players very much will."

A lot of the newer lottery games aren't meant for savvy players, but until they have a large enough audience to produce multiple jackpot winners that shouldn't be a problem.  There could be a problem with multiple second prize winners, especially if there are more than two at the same time quite often.  Sounds like the top prizes payout will be the same regardless of the number of tickets sold which could make it a real money maker for the states if enough people buy tickets.

I Agree!

Some of the people posting on LP have difficulties understanding odds of 22 million to 1 or comparing odds of 7,282,016 to 1 of winning $50,000 a year to the odds of 5,153,633 to 1 of winning $1 million playing PB.

I found nothing in the game rules indicating the top prizes are lower if there are multiple winners.

    dr65's avatar - black panther.jpg
    Pennsylvania
    United States
    Member #74096
    May 2, 2009
    23404 Posts
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    Posted: April 9, 2015, 11:02 pm - IP Logged

    The only game I'll fork over $2 for is Match 6. I like the game and it's 3 lines for $2 with 2 ways to win.

    Match numbers in a field of 18 or match numbers in a line of 6...the games are 3 lines for $2.

    That one and its $2 price tag suits me fine. It's actually fun and was banished until PA thought better

    and brought it back. Good decision.

    Cash 4 Life...bad decision.

    26 38 12 10 75 - 122 100 101 133 144 188 - 1207 1009 4901 2319

      Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
      Zeta Reticuli Star System
      United States
      Member #30470
      January 17, 2006
      10507 Posts
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      Posted: April 10, 2015, 12:01 am - IP Logged

      I Agree!

      Some of the people posting on LP have difficulties understanding odds of 22 million to 1 or comparing odds of 7,282,016 to 1 of winning $50,000 a year to the odds of 5,153,633 to 1 of winning $1 million playing PB.

      I found nothing in the game rules indicating the top prizes are lower if there are multiple winners.

      From a link in the game rules link. Go to this part of the link you provided:
      Check Lottery results to see how many numbers you match and view the official Cash4Life rules here.

      Section 7:

      ww.pabulletin.com/secure/data/vol45/45-14/635.html


      (i) Shares of the Top Prize shall be determined as follows:

      (A) If there is one Top Prize winning play among the Party Lotteries, the annuitized Prize value will be $1,000 per day for Life, paid in annual installments of $365,000, or a one-time lump sum cash prize payment. If there is one Top Prize winning play among the Party Lotteries, the value of the Cash Option will be $7,000,000.

      (B) If there is more than one and less than or equal to fourteen Top Prize winning plays among the Party Lotteries, the annuitized payment based on an annuitized prize value of $1,000 per day will be divided by the total number of Top Prize winning Plays. The minimum annuitized Prize value for this category will be $500 a week for Life, paid in annual installments. The two to fourteen Top Prize winning Play winners may choose the Cash Option as an alternative to the Annuity Option. The amount of the Cash Option shall be the amount of the Cash Option if there were only one prize winning Play, specified in section 7(a)(1)(i)(A), divided by the total number of Top Prize winning Plays.

      (C) In the event there are fifteen or more Top Prize winning Plays among the Party Lotteries, no Annuity Option shall be available. Rather, the prize money for the Top Prize shall be divided equally among all Top Prize winning Plays and paid in one lump sum payment to each winner. The minimum Top Prize shall not be less than any prize payout for the second through the ninth prize levels for the same Cash4Life Drawing.

      Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

      Lep

      There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

        RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
        mid-Ohio
        United States
        Member #9
        March 24, 2001
        20111 Posts
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        Posted: April 10, 2015, 2:08 am - IP Logged

        I Agree!

        Some of the people posting on LP have difficulties understanding odds of 22 million to 1 or comparing odds of 7,282,016 to 1 of winning $50,000 a year to the odds of 5,153,633 to 1 of winning $1 million playing PB.

        I found nothing in the game rules indicating the top prizes are lower if there are multiple winners.

        7. Prizes available to be won and determination of prize winners:

         (a) Cash4Life prize winners will be determined as follows:

         (1) Top Prize. Holders of tickets upon which the Cash4Life Play matches the Cash4Life Winning Numbers selected by the Drawing Officials for the Cash4Life Drawing in which the Cash4Life Play is entered, shall be the winner of the Top Prize.

         (i) Shares of the Top Prize shall be determined as follows:

         (A) If there is one Top Prize winning play among the Party Lotteries, the annuitized Prize value will be $1,000 per day for Life, paid in annual installments of $365,000, or a one-time lump sum cash prize payment. If there is one Top Prize winning play among the Party Lotteries, the value of the Cash Option will be $7,000,000.

        (B) If there is more than one and less than or equal to fourteen Top Prize winning plays among the Party Lotteries, the annuitized payment based on an annuitized prize value of $1,000 per day will be divided by the total number of Top Prize winning Plays. The minimum annuitized Prize value for this category will be $500 a week for Life, paid in annual installments. The two to fourteen Top Prize winning Play winners may choose the Cash Option as an alternative to the Annuity Option. The amount of the Cash Option shall be the amount of the Cash Option if there were only one prize winning Play, specified in section 7(a)(1)(i)(A), divided by the total number of Top Prize winning Plays.

        (C) In the event there are fifteen or more Top Prize winning Plays among the Party Lotteries, no Annuity Option shall be available. Rather, the prize money for the Top Prize shall be divided equally among all Top Prize winning Plays and paid in one lump sum payment to each winner. The minimum Top Prize shall not be less than any prize payout for the second through the ninth prize levels for the same Cash4Life Drawing.

         * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
           
                     Evil Looking       

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          Kentucky
          United States
          Member #32652
          February 14, 2006
          7547 Posts
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          Posted: April 10, 2015, 3:32 am - IP Logged

          From a link in the game rules link. Go to this part of the link you provided:
          Check Lottery results to see how many numbers you match and view the official Cash4Life rules here.

          Section 7:

          ww.pabulletin.com/secure/data/vol45/45-14/635.html


          (i) Shares of the Top Prize shall be determined as follows:

          (A) If there is one Top Prize winning play among the Party Lotteries, the annuitized Prize value will be $1,000 per day for Life, paid in annual installments of $365,000, or a one-time lump sum cash prize payment. If there is one Top Prize winning play among the Party Lotteries, the value of the Cash Option will be $7,000,000.

          (B) If there is more than one and less than or equal to fourteen Top Prize winning plays among the Party Lotteries, the annuitized payment based on an annuitized prize value of $1,000 per day will be divided by the total number of Top Prize winning Plays. The minimum annuitized Prize value for this category will be $500 a week for Life, paid in annual installments. The two to fourteen Top Prize winning Play winners may choose the Cash Option as an alternative to the Annuity Option. The amount of the Cash Option shall be the amount of the Cash Option if there were only one prize winning Play, specified in section 7(a)(1)(i)(A), divided by the total number of Top Prize winning Plays.

          (C) In the event there are fifteen or more Top Prize winning Plays among the Party Lotteries, no Annuity Option shall be available. Rather, the prize money for the Top Prize shall be divided equally among all Top Prize winning Plays and paid in one lump sum payment to each winner. The minimum Top Prize shall not be less than any prize payout for the second through the ninth prize levels for the same Cash4Life Drawing.

          If there is more than one and less than or equal to fourteen Top Prize winning plays among the Party Lotteries, the annuitized payment based on an annuitized prize value of $1,000 per day will be divided by the total number of Top Prize winning Plays.

          I assumed they had some type of safety net, but it looks like they made it difficult to find. They use the asterisks on their PB "prizes and odds" link.

          If the PA players want to bet $2 on a 22 million to 1 long shot trying to win $7 million, it's none of my business. And if they don't play because they fear multiple jackpot winners, I won't say a word.

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            Member #161539
            December 3, 2014
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            Posted: April 10, 2015, 9:28 am - IP Logged

            I haven't read any comments about this section paragraph (f) and exactly what it means ... but first and this makes the game a "no play" for me ... there is no money paid every four years for Leap Year (Feb 29th) ... a person better have a few dollars tucked away to make it from Feb 28th to March 1st !!!

            * Leap Day does not count for purposes of prize calculation.

            So if a person is 18 yr old when they hit the top prize ... and they live to be 95 years old then they will keep getting $1000 a day the whole time ... is this correct? ... the term "Measuring Life" means that, right?

            (f) An Annuitant will be paid their appropriate Top Prize share or Second Level Prize share on an annual basis for their Measuring Life, or for the twenty (20) year term of the Guaranteed Annuity Portion whichever is longer. In the event that an Annuitant dies within the twenty (20) year Guaranteed Annuity Portion, any remaining prize payments in the Guaranteed Annuity Portion will be paid according to 61 Pa. Code § 811.16 (relating to prizes payable after death of prize winner). The initial payment under the Annuity Option will be paid as soon as possible upon the completion of internal validation procedures and in accordance with 61 Pa. Code § 875.10 (relating to terminal-based lottery game ticket validation and requirements).

               (g) Prizes shall be redeemed or claimed only in the jurisdiction of the Party Lottery where the Cash4Life play was purchased.

               (h) The Top Prize and Second Level Prize calculations shall not include Leap Day.

            Bring the Wild Card lottery game from Idaho to PA ... two chances for $1 ... no more $2 games.

            ...

              Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
              Zeta Reticuli Star System
              United States
              Member #30470
              January 17, 2006
              10507 Posts
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              Posted: April 10, 2015, 8:29 pm - IP Logged

              If there is more than one and less than or equal to fourteen Top Prize winning plays among the Party Lotteries, the annuitized payment based on an annuitized prize value of $1,000 per day will be divided by the total number of Top Prize winning Plays.

              I assumed they had some type of safety net, but it looks like they made it difficult to find. They use the asterisks on their PB "prizes and odds" link.

              If the PA players want to bet $2 on a 22 million to 1 long shot trying to win $7 million, it's none of my business. And if they don't play because they fear multiple jackpot winners, I won't say a word.

              Stack47,

              They sure did make it difficult to find. I see no reason they didn't put it on the PA lottery game rules instead of burying it in a Department of Revenue Notice in the Pennsylvania Bulletin.

              If there was ever a reason that a player should never assume a solo jackpot this game is it.

              Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

              Lep

              There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

                Avatar
                Kentucky
                United States
                Member #32652
                February 14, 2006
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                Posted: April 10, 2015, 11:45 pm - IP Logged

                Stack47,

                They sure did make it difficult to find. I see no reason they didn't put it on the PA lottery game rules instead of burying it in a Department of Revenue Notice in the Pennsylvania Bulletin.

                If there was ever a reason that a player should never assume a solo jackpot this game is it.

                Bought three Lucky for Life tickets on Monday, cashed for $6, bought three more tickets for Thursday, and "won" $4. The worst I'll do is getting 14 tickets for $6, but not exactly encouragement that I'll win a jackpot.

                It's more likely the $1000 a week prize will be divided.

                  RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
                  mid-Ohio
                  United States
                  Member #9
                  March 24, 2001
                  20111 Posts
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                  Posted: April 11, 2015, 3:51 pm - IP Logged

                  Bought three Lucky for Life tickets on Monday, cashed for $6, bought three more tickets for Thursday, and "won" $4. The worst I'll do is getting 14 tickets for $6, but not exactly encouragement that I'll win a jackpot.

                  It's more likely the $1000 a week prize will be divided.

                  Does KY "lucky 4 life" and PA "cash 4 life" have the same rules, payouts and prices?  How can you get 14 tickets for $6?

                   * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                     
                               Evil Looking       

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                    Kentucky
                    United States
                    Member #32652
                    February 14, 2006
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                    Posted: April 11, 2015, 8:03 pm - IP Logged

                    Does KY "lucky 4 life" and PA "cash 4 life" have the same rules, payouts and prices?  How can you get 14 tickets for $6?

                    Lucky for life and Cash for life are basically the same type of game and it should say "$14 worth of tickets for $6". Found out matching the bonus number pays $4 so it will be $16 worth of tickets for $6 when I cash and buy two more tickets.

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                      Thread Starter
                      Wyomissing, PA
                      United States
                      Member #161050
                      November 15, 2014
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                      Posted: April 12, 2015, 7:31 am - IP Logged

                      While the odds of a Top Prize split is very small, the game is flawed nevertheless. More who play, worse the payouts can get. Doesn't scale. Lottery officials know this and hence the numerous liability limits; burying the details in marketing materials. Be an ok game for in-instate or even a couple of moderate population states (ie. PA & NJ) selling together. However, Cash4Life has no viable future in its current incarnation being sold across numerous states.

                      As the recent frequent Powerball hits illustrate (4 hits out past 10 according to another poster), relying on odds alone to protect the integrity of a game isn't a sure thing, if there isn't enough play to rapidly fund the prizes. Monopoly Millionaires' Club was a prime example. Cash4Life prizes aren't fully funded for quite some time. Not sure how many roll-overs (prizes remain the same) are needed, but likely takes a few to break-even, let alone make any meaningful profit.

                      I'm surprised after the whole MMC fiasco the Pennsylvania Lottery would go with Cash4Life verses something else, such as a new in-state game and/or reworking some of the current games for more favorable payouts, since strict profit margin limits were relaxed for the PA Lottery allowing for such flexibility.

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                        Kentucky
                        United States
                        Member #32652
                        February 14, 2006
                        7547 Posts
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                        Posted: April 12, 2015, 8:57 pm - IP Logged

                        While the odds of a Top Prize split is very small, the game is flawed nevertheless. More who play, worse the payouts can get. Doesn't scale. Lottery officials know this and hence the numerous liability limits; burying the details in marketing materials. Be an ok game for in-instate or even a couple of moderate population states (ie. PA & NJ) selling together. However, Cash4Life has no viable future in its current incarnation being sold across numerous states.

                        As the recent frequent Powerball hits illustrate (4 hits out past 10 according to another poster), relying on odds alone to protect the integrity of a game isn't a sure thing, if there isn't enough play to rapidly fund the prizes. Monopoly Millionaires' Club was a prime example. Cash4Life prizes aren't fully funded for quite some time. Not sure how many roll-overs (prizes remain the same) are needed, but likely takes a few to break-even, let alone make any meaningful profit.

                        I'm surprised after the whole MMC fiasco the Pennsylvania Lottery would go with Cash4Life verses something else, such as a new in-state game and/or reworking some of the current games for more favorable payouts, since strict profit margin limits were relaxed for the PA Lottery allowing for such flexibility.

                        PA has 13 other lottery games not including scratch-offs so it's not like some of western states with very few game choices. I really don't expect to see long lines forming to play Cash4life, but the game will get a following regardless of the remote possibility of splitting the top prize.

                        MMC wasn't PA's baby, they just went along with the rest and after a couple of drawings, everybody figured out $5 a ticket wouldn't fly and the possible liability could cost millions.

                        It's obvious you don't like the game, but why are you so critical of it?

                          rcbbuckeye's avatar - Lottery-062.jpg
                          Texas
                          United States
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                          October 23, 2007
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                          Posted: April 12, 2015, 9:12 pm - IP Logged

                          While the odds of a Top Prize split is very small, the game is flawed nevertheless. More who play, worse the payouts can get. Doesn't scale. Lottery officials know this and hence the numerous liability limits; burying the details in marketing materials. Be an ok game for in-instate or even a couple of moderate population states (ie. PA & NJ) selling together. However, Cash4Life has no viable future in its current incarnation being sold across numerous states.

                          As the recent frequent Powerball hits illustrate (4 hits out past 10 according to another poster), relying on odds alone to protect the integrity of a game isn't a sure thing, if there isn't enough play to rapidly fund the prizes. Monopoly Millionaires' Club was a prime example. Cash4Life prizes aren't fully funded for quite some time. Not sure how many roll-overs (prizes remain the same) are needed, but likely takes a few to break-even, let alone make any meaningful profit.

                          I'm surprised after the whole MMC fiasco the Pennsylvania Lottery would go with Cash4Life verses something else, such as a new in-state game and/or reworking some of the current games for more favorable payouts, since strict profit margin limits were relaxed for the PA Lottery allowing for such flexibility.

                          States are bringing these games out because they need to sell tics at $2. They're trying like mad to increase revenue. If they can't get people to buy the old fashioned games at $1 a pop, then start new games at $2.

                          Texas started up this All or Nothing at $2, and they're bringing out a new game later this year called Triple Chance or some such name, at $2.

                          I would rather drop $2 on 2 Step or Lotto, or even Daily 4.

                          CAN'T WIN IF YOU'RE NOT IN

                          A DOLLAR AND A DREAM (OR $2)

                            OrangeCrush's avatar - Lottery-064.jpg
                            New Member
                            Northern Virginia
                            United States
                            Member #105571
                            February 2, 2011
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                            Posted: April 29, 2015, 9:24 pm - IP Logged

                            Cash4Life is starting in Virginia in May. I came here to see if there was any info on it because I got confused reading the convoluted rules. Confused

                            Don't know if I will play this one at $2.