At what level of information does chaos appear?Prev TopicNext Topic

• Novan60

  

  United States
  Member #180,178
  February 23, 2017
  125 Posts
  Offline
  Apr 23, 2017, 4:40 am

  ▲▼
  In response to Datapile

  Quote: Originally posted by Datapile on Apr 22, 2017

  Novan, Have you tried expressing all 80 numbers (drawn or not) as a string of hexidecimal numbers?

  Actually I went as far as to express them as bits, but in the end regardless of how the numbers are expressed or summed the math works out to be the same.

  I have finally settled on a method that picks numbers based on choosing the correct conditions from a limited number of options until I have narrowed down the possibilities to one set of numbers. It is combination of multiple methods that I have explored.
• RJOh

  

  100

  mid-Ohio
  United States
  Member #9
  March 24, 2001
  20,272 Posts
  Offline
  May 5, 2017, 12:48 pm

  ▲▼
  In response to RL-RANDOMLOGIC

  Quote: Originally posted by RL-RANDOMLOGIC on Mar 30, 2017

  True random does not exist, I can win any standard pick n of n lottery any time I choose.  Can I make a profit

  playing that way?  I doubt it.  Any game for which the odds can be calculated for any one outcome is not truly

  random.  Perception is the art of discovery.  Chaos IMHO is perfection in motion, moving so fast it remains outside

  our grasp.

  RL

  "I can win any standard pick n of n lottery any time I choose." 

  Are you saying "When you play and don't win anything, it's your choice" or "You have to play so many combinations to win even though random doesn't exists it might as well"? 

  If random doesn't exist then winning combinations must exits within a subset of parameters other than those covering all the possible combinations and only picking combinations within them should improve ones odds of winning, it's just matter of defining them.

   * you don't need to buy every combination, just the winning ones * 

         
  
• RL-RANDOMLOGIC

  United States
  Member #59,352
  March 13, 2008
  5,626 Posts
  Offline
  May 13, 2017, 6:14 am

  ▲▼

  RJ

  You left off the word "True" in your reply.  True random does not exist.   Any game for which the total

  combinations can be calculated, it's possible to buy it out.  I said that I doubt playing that way would

  make a profit. 

  RL

  ....
• JADELottery

  

  Eagle Sun

  IA, MN, WI
  United States
  Member #21
  December 7, 2001
  5,177 Posts
  Offline
  May 25, 2017, 11:33 am

  ▲▼
  In response to JADELottery

  Quote: Originally posted by JADELottery on Apr 7, 2017

  We point out in the first post that on a very basic level that chaos appears at 5 bits of information.

  At that level, chaos over takes the order.

  Knowing this, if we look at 4 bits of information, we can see order and chaos are balanced at 8 a piece.

  Looking at one of the original streams of {0, 1}'s, 01101000110101010111001011100111, we can examine each at the 4 bit level.

  The stream is continuous and starts left and ends right, »–›.

  We examine each 4 bit segment at each 4 bits of instance.

   

  01101000110101010111001011100111
     N

  01101000110101010111001011100111
     NY

  01101000110101010111001011100111
     NYN

  .
  .
  .
  

  01101000110101010111001011100111
     NYNYYYNNYNNNNNNYYYNNYNYYYNN

  01101000110101010111001011100111
     NYNYYYNNYNNNNNNYYYNNYNYYYNNN

  01101000110101010111001011100111
     NYNYYYNNYNNNNNNYYYNNYNYYYNNNY

   

  N = 16, Y = 13

  Fairly balanced.

  If we look at an obviously not random and highly improbable 11111111111111111111111111111111, we get:

   

  11111111111111111111111111111111
     NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

   

  N = 29, Y = 0

  Not balanced.

  The chaos is missing.

  That's not to say it can't happen or is impossible; it's just very unlikely, given chaos and order being equal.

  Most of us instinctively know this is highly unlikely in a Quantum Universe where order is a subset of chaos.

  To point out this instinct, we refer to a case back in 2007 where something wasn't right in the TN Cash 3 Computer Generated Numbers.

  The Lottery Post article is Tenn Lottery spokeswoman said no chance of drawing error.

  In it we can read there was a sense of 'Something ain't right'.

  Well, with this very basic test for randomness, we could detect what we instinctively know about randomness.

  Also, this is somewhat similar to Card Counting in Blackjack.

  When the balance of order and chaos is out of balance, is when your going to hit it good.

  Let's reassign the letters with numbers.

  Since a order is a lower state and chaos is a higher state, the letter become the following.

  Something to notice is order and chaos are equal in frequency and it's symmetrical in form.

  0	0	0	0	N	-1
  0	0	0	1	Y	+1
  0	0	1	0	Y	+1
  0	0	1	1	N	-1
  0	1	0	0	Y	+1
  0	1	0	1	N	-1
  0	1	1	0	N	-1
  0	1	1	1	Y	+1
  1	0	0	0	Y	+1
  1	0	0	1	N	-1
  1	0	1	0	N	-1
  1	0	1	1	Y	+1
  1	1	0	0	N	-1
  1	1	0	1	Y	+1
  1	1	1	0	Y	+1
  1	1	1	1	N	-1

  The One Over None
  I Know...
• JADELottery

  

  Eagle Sun

  IA, MN, WI
  United States
  Member #21
  December 7, 2001
  5,177 Posts
  Offline
  May 25, 2017, 11:43 am

  ▲▼
  In response to JADELottery

  Quote: Originally posted by JADELottery on May 25, 2017

  Let's reassign the letters with numbers.

  Since a order is a lower state and chaos is a higher state, the letter become the following.

  Something to notice is order and chaos are equal in frequency and it's symmetrical in form.

  0	0	0	0	N	-1
  0	0	0	1	Y	+1
  0	0	1	0	Y	+1
  0	0	1	1	N	-1
  0	1	0	0	Y	+1
  0	1	0	1	N	-1
  0	1	1	0	N	-1
  0	1	1	1	Y	+1
  1	0	0	0	Y	+1
  1	0	0	1	N	-1
  1	0	1	0	N	-1
  1	0	1	1	Y	+1
  1	1	0	0	N	-1
  1	1	0	1	Y	+1
  1	1	1	0	Y	+1
  1	1	1	1	N	-1

  Using the previous example, we can substitute the letters.

  0	1	1	0	1	0	0	0	1	1	0	1	0	1	0	1	0	1	1	1	0	0	1	0	1	1	1	0	0	1	1	1
  			N	Y	N	Y	Y	Y	N	N	Y	N	N	N	N	N	N	Y	Y	Y	N	N	Y	N	Y	Y	Y	N	N	N	Y

  This becomes:

  0	1	1	0	1	0	0	0	1	1	0	1	0	1	0	1	0	1	1	1	0	0	1	0	1	1	1	0	0	1	1	1
  			-1	+1	-1	+1	+1	+1	-1	-1	+1	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	+1	+1	+1	-1	-1	+1	-1	+1	+1	+1	-1	-1	-1	+1

  The One Over None
  I Know...
• JADELottery

  

  Eagle Sun

  IA, MN, WI
  United States
  Member #21
  December 7, 2001
  5,177 Posts
  Offline
  May 25, 2017, 11:44 am

  ▲▼
  In response to JADELottery

  Quote: Originally posted by JADELottery on May 25, 2017

  Using the previous example, we can substitute the letters.

  0	1	1	0	1	0	0	0	1	1	0	1	0	1	0	1	0	1	1	1	0	0	1	0	1	1	1	0	0	1	1	1
  			N	Y	N	Y	Y	Y	N	N	Y	N	N	N	N	N	N	Y	Y	Y	N	N	Y	N	Y	Y	Y	N	N	N	Y

  This becomes:

  0	1	1	0	1	0	0	0	1	1	0	1	0	1	0	1	0	1	1	1	0	0	1	0	1	1	1	0	0	1	1	1
  			-1	+1	-1	+1	+1	+1	-1	-1	+1	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	+1	+1	+1	-1	-1	+1	-1	+1	+1	+1	-1	-1	-1	+1

  We can transpose the data to make it easier to work with the next process.

  0
  1
  1
  0	-1
  1	+1
  0	-1
  0	+1
  0	+1
  1	+1
  1	-1
  0	-1
  1	+1
  0	-1
  1	-1
  0	-1
  1	-1
  0	-1
  1	-1
  1	+1
  1	+1
  0	+1
  0	-1
  1	-1
  0	+1
  1	-1
  1	+1
  1	+1
  0	+1
  0	-1
  1	-1
  1	-1
  1	+1

  The One Over None
  I Know...
• JADELottery

  

  Eagle Sun

  IA, MN, WI
  United States
  Member #21
  December 7, 2001
  5,177 Posts
  Offline
  May 25, 2017, 11:58 am

  ▲▼
  In response to JADELottery

  Quote: Originally posted by JADELottery on May 25, 2017

  We can transpose the data to make it easier to work with the next process.

  0
  1
  1
  0	-1
  1	+1
  0	-1
  0	+1
  0	+1
  1	+1
  1	-1
  0	-1
  1	+1
  0	-1
  1	-1
  0	-1
  1	-1
  0	-1
  1	-1
  1	+1
  1	+1
  0	+1
  0	-1
  1	-1
  0	+1
  1	-1
  1	+1
  1	+1
  0	+1
  0	-1
  1	-1
  1	-1
  1	+1

  We can add some headers and a running total of the 4 Bit State.

  As more samples are added, the running total should tend to gravitate toward 0.

  Bit Stream	4 Bit State	Running Total
  0
  1
  1
  0	-1	-1
  1	+1	·0
  0	-1	-1
  0	+1	·0
  0	+1	+1
  1	+1	+2
  1	-1	+1
  0	-1	·0
  1	+1	+1
  0	-1	·0
  1	-1	-1
  0	-1	-2
  1	-1	-3
  0	-1	-4
  1	-1	-5
  1	+1	-4
  1	+1	-3
  0	+1	-2
  0	-1	-3
  1	-1	-4
  0	+1	-3
  1	-1	-4
  1	+1	-3
  1	+1	-2
  0	+1	-1
  0	-1	-2
  1	-1	-3
  1	-1	-4
  1	+1	-3

  The One Over None
  I Know...
• JADELottery

  

  Eagle Sun

  IA, MN, WI
  United States
  Member #21
  December 7, 2001
  5,177 Posts
  Offline
  May 25, 2017, 12:11 pm

  ▲▼
  In response to JADELottery

  Quote: Originally posted by JADELottery on May 25, 2017

  We can add some headers and a running total of the 4 Bit State.

  As more samples are added, the running total should tend to gravitate toward 0.

  Bit Stream	4 Bit State	Running Total
  0
  1
  1
  0	-1	-1
  1	+1	·0
  0	-1	-1
  0	+1	·0
  0	+1	+1
  1	+1	+2
  1	-1	+1
  0	-1	·0
  1	+1	+1
  0	-1	·0
  1	-1	-1
  0	-1	-2
  1	-1	-3
  0	-1	-4
  1	-1	-5
  1	+1	-4
  1	+1	-3
  0	+1	-2
  0	-1	-3
  1	-1	-4
  0	+1	-3
  1	-1	-4
  1	+1	-3
  1	+1	-2
  0	+1	-1
  0	-1	-2
  1	-1	-3
  1	-1	-4
  1	+1	-3

  If know the running total tends to 0, then based on the last running value of -3, it would goto -2.

  To make it goto -2, the bit state would have to be a +1.

  Looking at the states available we can see which states would likely fit the possible outcome.

  Here we'll transpose the bit states to make it easier to read and highlight the +1's.

  0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1
  0	0	0	0	1	1	1	1	0	0	0	0	1	1	1	1
  0	0	1	1	0	0	1	1	0	0	1	1	0	0	1	1
  0	1	0	1	0	1	0	1	0	1	0	1	0	1	0	1
  N	Y	Y	N	Y	N	N	Y	Y	N	N	Y	N	Y	Y	N
  -1	+1	+1	-1	+1	-1	-1	+1	+1	-1	-1	+1	-1	+1	+1	-1

  We can see the top 3 bits have to be a 1; which leaves only one possible choice for the next bit.

  0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1
  0	0	0	0	1	1	1	1	0	0	0	0	1	1	1	1
  0	0	1	1	0	0	1	1	0	0	1	1	0	0	1	1
  0	1	0	1	0	1	0	1	0	1	0	1	0	1	0	1
  N	Y	Y	N	Y	N	N	Y	Y	N	N	Y	N	Y	Y	N
  -1	+1	+1	-1	+1	-1	-1	+1	+1	-1	-1	+1	-1	+1	+1	-1

  The One Over None
  I Know...
• JADELottery

  

  Eagle Sun

  IA, MN, WI
  United States
  Member #21
  December 7, 2001
  5,177 Posts
  Offline
  May 25, 2017, 12:25 pm

  ▲▼

  This is very similar to card counting in Blackjack.

  Groups of cards a given a values of -1, 0, +1.

  By keeping track of the running total, it's possible to tell when the deck is getting hot for the player or not.

  Betting a high when the deck is hot and other strategies is what makes counting cards so useful.

  Some of the same can be done here with random selection.

  In a random setting, the selections are going to be some order and some chaos.

  If one or the other happens more, eventually it comes back the other way with unbiased random conditions.

  Run away conditions toward either side might be an indication something is wrong or biased in the selection process.

  Use that to your advantage; while you can.

  The One Over None
  I Know...
• RJOh

  

  100

  mid-Ohio
  United States
  Member #9
  March 24, 2001
  20,272 Posts
  Offline
  Jun 20, 2017, 6:53 pm

  ▲▼
  In response to RL-RANDOMLOGIC

  Quote: Originally posted by RL-RANDOMLOGIC on May 13, 2017

  RJ

  You left off the word "True" in your reply.  True random does not exist.   Any game for which the total

  combinations can be calculated, it's possible to buy it out.  I said that I doubt playing that way would

  make a profit. 

  RL

  Are you saying flipping a coin can't have a "true" random result since there are only two possible?

  Pay outs for games are designed such that they seldom pay enough to cover all the possible outcomes.

   * you don't need to buy every combination, just the winning ones * 

         
  
• Sunglasses

  Belgium
  Member #173,922
  March 26, 2016
  1,396 Posts
  Offline
  Jun 20, 2017, 6:59 pm

  ▲▼

  Red, black or zero.

  18, 18 or 1 of 37

  37 chances

  It can be 0 all the time. 0 is not an even number, review your math!

  In any case, the payout is better. Cover 18 of 37 chances and double your money.