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Engineer reported bad Tenn. Lottery computerized draws

Topic closed. 28 replies. Last post 9 years ago by LOTTOMIKE.

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LOTTOMIKE's avatar - cash money.jpg
Tennessee
United States
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October 15, 2004
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Posted: August 25, 2007, 7:17 am - IP Logged

rebecca paul needs to be replaced.

    dvdiva's avatar - 8ball

    United States
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    September 17, 2003
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    Posted: August 25, 2007, 9:15 am - IP Logged

    Why would Tenn. change the system. People keep buying tickets and the MSM doesn't report the story. So far it looks like a very profitable system for Tenn. You can't expect modern journalists to cover something as difficult as mathmatics.

    For the record random.org has a good explaination as to why computer based RNGs are not used in scientific research and truely random generators that are used by no current lottery. None of the current computer based lottery RNGs are random so it's all a guess as to how much favor the state is getting in each case.

      Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
      Chief Bottle Washer
      New Jersey
      United States
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      Posted: August 25, 2007, 9:26 am - IP Logged

      Why would Tenn. change the system. People keep buying tickets and the MSM doesn't report the story. So far it looks like a very profitable system for Tenn. You can't expect modern journalists to cover something as difficult as mathmatics.

      For the record random.org has a good explaination as to why computer based RNGs are not used in scientific research and truely random generators that are used by no current lottery. None of the current computer based lottery RNGs are random so it's all a guess as to how much favor the state is getting in each case.

      Hot Lotto (MUSL) uses a radioactive decay method for their RNG, which I believe is considered truly random.  However that's only one part of the equation.  The other part is unsolvable: computers can be hacked.

       

      Check the State Lottery Report Card
      What grade did your lottery earn?

       

      Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
      Help eliminate computerized drawings!


        United States
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        August 25, 2007
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        Posted: August 25, 2007, 11:46 am - IP Logged

        Ask around to any person knowledgeable about writing programming for computers and they will tell you that computers can't really randomize numbers. They are Pseudo-Random. Meaning they have a pattern and are never really random at all. It isn't possible to do.

        Pseudo-Random was discovered during WWII when the Germans code was broke that they used to send what they thought to be random lettering that only the receiving machine could decipher. The first computer ever made was the size of a factory and used to break their code.

        Still today computers can't make anything totally random without making a pattern.
        *i was going to add an url that tells more about it but the rules here won't allow me to do that*

        This is the reason that a computer was never used in the first place for the lottery.

        I'm very surprised that the news stations haven’t looked into this tidbit of information yet.


        Good luck in all you do,
        Google Junky

          tnlotto1's avatar - logo
          nashville
          United States
          Member #49896
          February 18, 2007
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          Posted: August 25, 2007, 12:07 pm - IP Logged

          Ask around to any person knowledgeable about writing programming for computers and they will tell you that computers can't really randomize numbers. They are Pseudo-Random. Meaning they have a pattern and are never really random at all. It isn't possible to do.

          Pseudo-Random was discovered during WWII when the Germans code was broke that they used to send what they thought to be random lettering that only the receiving machine could decipher. The first computer ever made was the size of a factory and used to break their code.

          Still today computers can't make anything totally random without making a pattern.
          *i was going to add an url that tells more about it but the rules here won't allow me to do that*

          This is the reason that a computer was never used in the first place for the lottery.

          I'm very surprised that the news stations haven’t looked into this tidbit of information yet.


          Good luck in all you do,
          Google Junky

          that is interesting google junky because i saw a special on vegas cheaters on the travel channel and they talked about hackers figuring out how to break the code of the slot machines because the slot machines arent really random and any sequence can be predicted. the guy who was busted use to make the slot machines so he knew exactly how to predict the winners. i didnt know the lottery computers worked the same way but i knew i didnt want tennessee to go RNG

            KyMystikal's avatar - 1457224010054
            Florence, Alabama
            United States
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            November 13, 2004
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            Posted: August 26, 2007, 2:11 am - IP Logged

            There are several ways that I put together news stories.  Sometimes I write them myself.  Sometimes I post directly from another media source.  And sometimes I put together a piece that uses bits from other sources, and the rest I write myself.

            The article able is the third type of story.  If you check the Source at the bottom you will see "Huntsville Star News, Lottery Post Staff".  That means I took bits from the Huntsville Star News story, and wrote the rest myself.  So to say that the HSN left out something is not really the case, since the story is really my own doing.  If anyone left something out, it was me.

            However, I don't think there was anything left out.  An e-mail sent to people from an unknown source within the lottery is not a verified news source.  Many times such e-mails are written by underlings, without direct input from officials.  That would not make it an "official" statement.  It's more like good info that should be confirmed by an official.  The information posted to their web site can be considered "official".

            I am indeed trying to get the whole story.  I think that much is apparent.  I am also trying to do so in a way that exposes as much as possible, while remaining ethical and factual.

            I hope this clears things up.  It's not an exact science.

            That is a nice point about the email replies that the lottery gave. But why did they even reply or have someone reply back if their email reply meant nothing. Somebody had to tell who ever responded to the emails something to tell the public in the first place so I don't believe that crap. Besides there were several days that had passed since the email was sent and the reply came back., granted I did send my email in to them on a Sat. Yes, they could say it was the weekend, but I didn't get a reply back until Wed. That was plenty of time for me to beleive they tested the machine like they said they did. The TN lottery is trying to dodge everything as if they were angels naive to all that happened. They pull this crap about in the past the midday draw went 16 days or so without a double, well that was the randomness of a ball drawing and people could understand that because doubles did fall in the other games. Like someone else posted in this thread, I think TN will have the quads come out soon to try and shut people up. Well when they do fall I will be happy to all who chose to continue to get ripped off by this so called RNG game that they have more control over, but Rebecca and her crew won't get a bonus from me.  As far as I'm concerned Tn has only one lottery game, "Powerball" and that is all I will play there. 1$ with a power play. and with the jackpot at 300 mil I will play 3 plays tonight.

            I love doubles and remember, it's just a game!!!!!!

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              Indiana
              United States
              Member #29196
              December 29, 2005
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              Posted: August 26, 2007, 9:20 am - IP Logged

              Todd,

              I think you make a great point about the e-mail as a verifiable news source.  And I certainly understand and agree with you as to getting to the facts and remaining ethical.  But Like Mystikal I gotta wonder:

              1. Who at the Tennessee Lottery sent those emails and what is the source of their authority to respond in such a manner?

              2. From whom and where did they get their information?

              3. Did someone in a position of authority at the Tennessee Lottery provide the information and authorize the sending of said e-mails?  

              I must reiterate that this is the best chance ever to discredit the propaganda of the wonderfullness of RNG's and therefore, rid ourselves of them forever.  And if it has to be done by discrediting the Tennessee Lottery then I say so be it.  They brought this on themseves and they must be held accountable for their actions and their words.

              I really hope the mainstream press and the people of Tennessee don't just roll over and accept this nonsense.  There are too many unanswered questions here and too many contradictions to just let it fade away.

              It is obvious to me that the Tennessee Lottery has no credibility in this matter and that should be exploited.  Just look at the following:

              1. They said a glitch like this could never happen but it did.

              2. They said the program was flawed and could not produce doubles  But they (at least someone affiliated with the Tennessee Lottery) said they tested the program and they got doubles during the test.

              3. They said it is not uncommon for doubles to occur for long periods of time and cited examples that were proven to be false.

              Like Mystikal said they are trying to dodge everything and they need to be hammered with their own words!

              Jim 


              Money frees you from doing things you dislike.  Since I dislike doing nearly everything, money is handy.  - Groucho Marx

                Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
                Chief Bottle Washer
                New Jersey
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                Posted: August 26, 2007, 9:25 am - IP Logged

                Todd,

                I think you make a great point about the e-mail as a verifiable news source.  And I certainly understand and agree with you as to getting to the facts and remaining ethical.  But Like Mystikal I gotta wonder:

                1. Who at the Tennessee Lottery sent those emails and what is the source of their authority to respond in such a manner?

                2. From whom and where did they get their information?

                3. Did someone in a position of authority at the Tennessee Lottery provide the information and authorize the sending of said e-mails?  

                I must reiterate that this is the best chance ever to discredit the propaganda of the wonderfullness of RNG's and therefore, rid ourselves of them forever.  And if it has to be done by discrediting the Tennessee Lottery then I say so be it.  They brought this on themseves and they must be held accountable for their actions and their words.

                I really hope the mainstream press and the people of Tennessee don't just roll over and accept this nonsense.  There are too many unanswered questions here and too many contradictions to just let it fade away.

                It is obvious to me that the Tennessee Lottery has no credibility in this matter and that should be exploited.  Just look at the following:

                1. They said a glitch like this could never happen but it did.

                2. They said the program was flawed and could not produce doubles  But they (at least someone affiliated with the Tennessee Lottery) said they tested the program and they got doubles during the test.

                3. They said it is not uncommon for doubles to occur for long periods of time and cited examples that were proven to be false.

                Like Mystikal said they are trying to dodge everything and they need to be hammered with their own words!

                Jim 

                UJ, I agree, and I have stated the same points in other posts.  If you go back and see my previous posts when the story was breaking, I believe I was the first to raise these issues -- about the conflict in statements coming from the lottery.  My comments above were strictly related to the writing of news stories, not my personal opinions.

                 

                Check the State Lottery Report Card
                What grade did your lottery earn?

                 

                Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
                Help eliminate computerized drawings!

                  four4me's avatar - gate1
                  MD
                  United States
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                  June 18, 2003
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                  Posted: August 26, 2007, 11:54 am - IP Logged

                  I think many email responses are generic in nature meaning that depending on the question. They have a list of answers and whomever is handling the emails just simply clicks on the appropriate reply or the next best reply to a question.

                  Rarely will a person get a detailed specific personally typed reply from them.

                  From talking to different people whom have worked for the lottery in my home town. There are literally hundreds of emails form people mostly complaints about why their numbers don't come out why triples haven't been drawn, when are you going to draw my numbers. I was one number off every other day home come you didn't draw my picks, the lottery is ripping me off. Stuff like this.

                  So my guess is whomever is handling the emails desk dreads having to reply individually to each and every email and that's why we get generic replies.

                  Over the years having been asked the same questions over and over they have created a list of automated responses.  And for the most part the average person wouldn't know it was an automated response unless they have emailed the lottery in the past and got a similar response.

                  Moreover just about all the lottery's use the same type responses especially the one that says

                  Quote: we value the integrity of our games and do everything to insure ------- yadda yadda.

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                    Indiana
                    United States
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                    December 29, 2005
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                    Posted: August 28, 2007, 8:33 am - IP Logged

                    So what's going on with this mess in Tennessee now?  In the last few days I haven't seen any stories, news or comments?  Are there any updates or is this story going to die?  A lot of outrage and then business as usual?

                    Jim 


                    Money frees you from doing things you dislike.  Since I dislike doing nearly everything, money is handy.  - Groucho Marx

                      WIN  D's avatar - q05Q0
                      Stone Mountain*Georgia
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                      Posted: August 28, 2007, 10:17 am - IP Logged

                            If I were a State Lottery Offical....(God Forbid)

                            My first thought ...... if I were entertaining changing from normal draws to computer draws would be .....How would we make sure the draws were RANDOM ?

                          Someone selling me software for my lottery drawings would have to convince me there were "Checks and Balances" in place ..  that would ALERT on NON random events taking place each day for several days in a row.

                       

                            There is software that test such things !  Where was it?  Am I crazzzzy or shouldn't this be normal operating procedure in all these computer drawing softwares?

                         

                                        Secure and auditable

                       

                       

                                                          http://www.tstglobal.com/

                       

                          Why should ....... "Lay people" have to be the ones doing the Alerts... and getting ignored by the STATE?  History has shown....Americans don't like to be ignored by the Government very much!  US Flag

                       

                       

                      The only real failure .....is the failure to try.                               

                                                    Luck is a very rare thing....... Odds not so much. 

                                                    Odds never change .....but probability does. 

                                                                                                             Win d    

                        Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
                        Chief Bottle Washer
                        New Jersey
                        United States
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                        Posted: August 28, 2007, 10:29 am - IP Logged

                        So what's going on with this mess in Tennessee now?  In the last few days I haven't seen any stories, news or comments?  Are there any updates or is this story going to die?  A lot of outrage and then business as usual?

                        Jim 

                        There was a new story posted this morning.

                         

                        Check the State Lottery Report Card
                        What grade did your lottery earn?

                         

                        Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
                        Help eliminate computerized drawings!

                          Avatar
                          Indiana
                          United States
                          Member #29196
                          December 29, 2005
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                          Posted: August 29, 2007, 11:49 am - IP Logged

                          Big Smile

                          Thank you Todd! 

                          Jim 


                          Money frees you from doing things you dislike.  Since I dislike doing nearly everything, money is handy.  - Groucho Marx

                            LOTTOMIKE's avatar - cash money.jpg
                            Tennessee
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                            October 15, 2004
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                            Posted: August 31, 2007, 7:41 am - IP Logged

                            i'm pretty sure there won't be too much time that elapses before there is a new 'flaw' tennessee discovers.they'll do the same thing as they did last time.nothing until they have to......