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Massachusetts Lottery closes loophole after big wins

Topic closed. 75 replies. Last post 5 years ago by RJOh.

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Crofton
United States
Member #20165
August 13, 2005
4 Posts
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Posted: August 3, 2011, 5:53 pm - IP Logged

Realistically, the company who designed the game for the Massachusetts Lottery should have anticipated this.

    RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

    United States
    Member #59354
    March 13, 2008
    3985 Posts
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    Posted: August 3, 2011, 8:35 pm - IP Logged

    "...small rollers (is there such a thing?)..."

     

    Yeah, LOL, there is such a thing.

    It's people who choose to play only a buck or two bychoice because that's their strategy.

    Then there's the people who play only a buck or two by necessity like ScoobyGoofjim.

    ScoobyGoof is mad at the world and rich people in particular, because he's been a failure at life and knows he will always be a "Small Roller" LOL.

    Him needs a nanny to take care of him cuz him's helpless.  Sad  Poor ScoobyGoof. 

    rdgrnr

     

    When someone wins a PB jackpot then about 99% goes to one player.   Even if someone played a million

    tickets in a 6-46 game they still only have a 1 in 9.3 chance of hitting a JP.   It's amazing how hard it

    is to pick one of 9 and select the correct one.  Every one who plays could hit the JP which would mean

    these people would lose big time.  I still don't see any problem with this game, could someone explain

    to me what the big deal is?  Anyone playing, even if it's only one ticket which hits a lower level prize still

    benefits from the game regardless of who or how much someone else plays or wins.  Anyone wanting to

    talk about low-lifes should be talking about the state that takes 50% just for selling the tickets and then

    has the nerve to take another big chunk of the winnings for taxes.   I think that 100% of ticket sales should

    go to prizes and the state should live off the taxes or they should take there cut up front and then not tax

    the winners. 

    RL

    Working on my Ph.D.  "University of hard Knocks"

    I will consider the opinion that my winnings are a product of chance if you are willing to consider

    they are not.  Many great discoveries come while searching for something else

    USAF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Base_Engineer_Emergency_Force

      US Flag Trump / 2016 & 2020  

      rdgrnr's avatar - walt
      Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
      United States
      Member #73904
      April 28, 2009
      14903 Posts
      Offline
      Posted: August 3, 2011, 8:54 pm - IP Logged

      rdgrnr

       

      When someone wins a PB jackpot then about 99% goes to one player.   Even if someone played a million

      tickets in a 6-46 game they still only have a 1 in 9.3 chance of hitting a JP.   It's amazing how hard it

      is to pick one of 9 and select the correct one.  Every one who plays could hit the JP which would mean

      these people would lose big time.  I still don't see any problem with this game, could someone explain

      to me what the big deal is?  Anyone playing, even if it's only one ticket which hits a lower level prize still

      benefits from the game regardless of who or how much someone else plays or wins.  Anyone wanting to

      talk about low-lifes should be talking about the state that takes 50% just for selling the tickets and then

      has the nerve to take another big chunk of the winnings for taxes.   I think that 100% of ticket sales should

      go to prizes and the state should live off the taxes or they should take there cut up front and then not tax

      the winners. 

      RL

      I'm hip, RL, it's just a couple people here that are into the class warfare thing that Obama is pushin.

      They consider anyone who's been successful the enemy. Everyone should be a low-class failure like them.

      Rich people are evil and should share their money with them.

      Parasites.


                                                   
                           
                                               

       

       

       

       

                                                                                                         

      "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                  --Edmund Burke

       

       

        sully16's avatar - sharan
        Ringleader
        Michigan
        United States
        Member #81740
        October 28, 2009
        40610 Posts
        Offline
        Posted: August 3, 2011, 9:06 pm - IP Logged

        I am really curious as to who penned the term loophole, it's like theres a push to turn "loophole" into a dirty word, there was no loophole, they just made it harder for people to spend their money faster.

        Did you exchange a walk on part in the war ?

        For a lead role in a cage?

         

                                                    From Pink Floyd's " Wish you were here"

          Avatar
          NY
          United States
          Member #23835
          October 16, 2005
          3475 Posts
          Offline
          Posted: August 3, 2011, 10:32 pm - IP Logged

          "punishing all the stores in the commonwealth because of a few rotten tomatoes that allowed the high roller customers to print their tickets is not right"

          How are they punishing other stores? By limiting them to 5,000 tickets per day in a particular game? I'd be extremely surprised if even the stores that sell the most tickets sell that many in a week, let alone a day. Before the jackpot passed the $2 million mark it increased by a maximum of just over 50k during 4 days pf sales. Assuming that the jackpot pool only gets 10% of sales that would put total sales at a bit over 500k, or 125k per day. I don't know how many lottery retailers there are in Massachusetts, but we can be sure that average daily sales per store is well under 100. It's not a big game, and it's an extremely safe bet that the 5000 tickets figure is high enough that it won't matter to any store that isn't helping somebody game the system.

          "I am no lawyer but I feel this new rule interferes with interstate commerce which is contrary to the Constitution and therefore it is null and void."

          You could consult with somebody who is a lawyer or you could read the Constitution for a better feeling about the law.

          "Surely even if they win a lot they have still taken a big risk on their money."

          You don't really think they're risking more than $200k for a 50% chance of making a $50k profit? The whole point is that there's very little risk. By buying huge numbers of tickets they're virtually ensuring themselves of a profit.

          What a lot of people may not realize is that their profit comes at the expense of the regular lottery players. When the jackpot pool is split it's paid out as parimutuel prizes, so every prize they win by playing enough tickets to guarantee a profit reduces the amount of the prize won by the regular players. How many people think that the lottery should allow people with deep pockets to buy all the combinations for a jackpot game, so that if you're lucky enough to win you only get a fraction of the prize you thought you were playing for?

            Avatar
            Urbandale, IA
            United States
            Member #8624
            November 11, 2004
            115 Posts
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            Posted: August 3, 2011, 10:40 pm - IP Logged

            Has anybody done the math?  Some "computer" guy claims to know what is going on and reporters hop on board because it's a great story.  I can tell you that none of the reporters have done the math.  In one story, these big players said that they sometimes lose money.  Sounds a bit like gambling to me.  Generally, the reported win results look good, so perhaps it is all true that spending more can even out the odds, but one might actually run the math before jumping to conclusions.  In the end, the game does what it is supposed to do - make money for the state.  Even if true, is there really anything wrong with designing a lottery game that can appeal to folks willing and able to drop a half million?

            A person spending $2 can still take the jackpot.

              rdgrnr's avatar - walt
              Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
              United States
              Member #73904
              April 28, 2009
              14903 Posts
              Offline
              Posted: August 3, 2011, 10:53 pm - IP Logged

              Has anybody done the math?  Some "computer" guy claims to know what is going on and reporters hop on board because it's a great story.  I can tell you that none of the reporters have done the math.  In one story, these big players said that they sometimes lose money.  Sounds a bit like gambling to me.  Generally, the reported win results look good, so perhaps it is all true that spending more can even out the odds, but one might actually run the math before jumping to conclusions.  In the end, the game does what it is supposed to do - make money for the state.  Even if true, is there really anything wrong with designing a lottery game that can appeal to folks willing and able to drop a half million?

              A person spending $2 can still take the jackpot.

              It's just whiners who hate people with money, Chuck.

              They want the rich punished for the crime of being successful in life.


                                                           
                                   
                                                       

               

               

               

               

                                                                                                                 

              "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                          --Edmund Burke

               

               

                Avatar

                United States
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                May 20, 2011
                344 Posts
                Offline
                Posted: August 3, 2011, 10:57 pm - IP Logged

                Gawd, I hate RICH peoples Green laugh....... $$$$$$$ ........ JJ .......

                  Avatar
                  New Member
                  East Coast Sand
                  United States
                  Member #114387
                  July 30, 2011
                  21 Posts
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                  Posted: August 3, 2011, 11:30 pm - IP Logged

                  So there is now a 5,000$ cap on daily winfall ticket sales per store.  Sounds like what the state has actually done is make it so that the ONLY folks who will play will be the big spenders, and they will go from store to store, effectively shutting out the little player.  This sounds like it's going to be a long year till WinFall is ended.

                    RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

                    United States
                    Member #59354
                    March 13, 2008
                    3985 Posts
                    Offline
                    Posted: August 4, 2011, 4:25 am - IP Logged

                    Ridge

                    I think Todd nailed it when we said it's a betting strategy.  The game is designed to roll down and pay out more

                    for lower prizes and that is exactly what it does.   It is working just as it is designed as far as I can see and no

                    loop hole exist at all.  I would love to see these sort of games increase instead of going down the tubes so to

                    speak.  I think you are right that some people don't want others to succeed.   What bothers me the most is that

                    dissinformation will win out in the end and everyone will loose.   Success is all about being willing to step up to

                    bat and put it on the line,  doing this when the odds lean more toward ones favor is just being smart.   Here is

                    something for those others to think about,  Lets say we cancel all money and reset the whole system.  We then

                    give each person one million dollars and every one is happy.  It would not take very long before 90% of the wealth

                    would be back in the pockets of 10% of the people.  Ask yourself why and you have the solution to the problem.

                    It's not them it's you.       

                    RL

                    Working on my Ph.D.  "University of hard Knocks"

                    I will consider the opinion that my winnings are a product of chance if you are willing to consider

                    they are not.  Many great discoveries come while searching for something else

                    USAF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Base_Engineer_Emergency_Force

                      US Flag Trump / 2016 & 2020  

                      GiveFive's avatar - Lottery-026.jpg
                      NY State
                      United States
                      Member #92609
                      June 10, 2010
                      3708 Posts
                      Offline
                      Posted: August 4, 2011, 6:05 am - IP Logged

                      "Loophole"?   I think not.

                      There's more to this story than we can possibly know.  If you know the towns where the tickets were being purchased, (I do because I've been through that neck of the woods and it's very rural there), then you know they're about half way into The Commonwealth of Mass. (If you're driving into Mass from the New York border on The Mass Pike. Then ya gotta hang a left on I-91 and go North a bit.)  If someone was driving to Mass from Michigan, why not just stop at the Mass border at the first exit off The Pike in Stockbridge or even at Lee?  Why go as far into Mass as the "high rollers" did?  There's a reason for that, and my guess is it's because they are some how connected/related to the store owners. 

                      I dont know that the high rollers actually drove to Mass from Michigan.  They could have flown into Boston or Hartford.  But something is up with the fact those retailers are not located right on the western Mass border with New York.

                      But who cares!!!! More power to the folks from Michigan.  Look, I hate to wait in line as much as the next guy to buy a lottery tickets when some dude who cant afford it is buying $100 worth of tickets and is randomly rattling off  numbers to the clerk, but something tells me that aint exactly what was happening in Mass. 

                      We just dont know the whole story, and neither does the reporter who first wrote about it.  He/she didnt get every single detail.

                      About playing the lottery --  You will lose more than you win. Until you hit a jackpot.  Then everything changes!

                        imagine's avatar - WINGS

                        United States
                        Member #85047
                        January 7, 2010
                        102 Posts
                        Offline
                        Posted: August 4, 2011, 9:26 am - IP Logged

                        I read another article on this.  These retailers violated a lot of rules.

                        The employees that printed tickets weren't even present, sometimes.  Printing tickets before and after business hours.
                        The customer was not present when some tickets were printed.  Employees aren't allowed to be hired to work the lotto machine solely for this purpose, they need to work at other times.

                        The stores got greedy.

                          rdgrnr's avatar - walt
                          Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
                          United States
                          Member #73904
                          April 28, 2009
                          14903 Posts
                          Offline
                          Posted: August 4, 2011, 11:30 am - IP Logged

                          Ridge

                          I think Todd nailed it when we said it's a betting strategy.  The game is designed to roll down and pay out more

                          for lower prizes and that is exactly what it does.   It is working just as it is designed as far as I can see and no

                          loop hole exist at all.  I would love to see these sort of games increase instead of going down the tubes so to

                          speak.  I think you are right that some people don't want others to succeed.   What bothers me the most is that

                          dissinformation will win out in the end and everyone will loose.   Success is all about being willing to step up to

                          bat and put it on the line,  doing this when the odds lean more toward ones favor is just being smart.   Here is

                          something for those others to think about,  Lets say we cancel all money and reset the whole system.  We then

                          give each person one million dollars and every one is happy.  It would not take very long before 90% of the wealth

                          would be back in the pockets of 10% of the people.  Ask yourself why and you have the solution to the problem.

                          It's not them it's you.       

                          RL

                          Roger that. Thumbs Up


                                                                       
                                               
                                                                   

                           

                           

                           

                           

                                                                                                                             

                          "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                                      --Edmund Burke

                           

                           

                            rdgrnr's avatar - walt
                            Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
                            United States
                            Member #73904
                            April 28, 2009
                            14903 Posts
                            Offline
                            Posted: August 4, 2011, 11:32 am - IP Logged

                            "Loophole"?   I think not.

                            There's more to this story than we can possibly know.  If you know the towns where the tickets were being purchased, (I do because I've been through that neck of the woods and it's very rural there), then you know they're about half way into The Commonwealth of Mass. (If you're driving into Mass from the New York border on The Mass Pike. Then ya gotta hang a left on I-91 and go North a bit.)  If someone was driving to Mass from Michigan, why not just stop at the Mass border at the first exit off The Pike in Stockbridge or even at Lee?  Why go as far into Mass as the "high rollers" did?  There's a reason for that, and my guess is it's because they are some how connected/related to the store owners. 

                            I dont know that the high rollers actually drove to Mass from Michigan.  They could have flown into Boston or Hartford.  But something is up with the fact those retailers are not located right on the western Mass border with New York.

                            But who cares!!!! More power to the folks from Michigan.  Look, I hate to wait in line as much as the next guy to buy a lottery tickets when some dude who cant afford it is buying $100 worth of tickets and is randomly rattling off  numbers to the clerk, but something tells me that aint exactly what was happening in Mass. 

                            We just dont know the whole story, and neither does the reporter who first wrote about it.  He/she didnt get every single detail.

                            Are you implying that you smell a Patel?


                                                                         
                                                 
                                                                     

                             

                             

                             

                             

                                                                                                                               

                            "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                                        --Edmund Burke

                             

                             

                              RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
                              mid-Ohio
                              United States
                              Member #9
                              March 24, 2001
                              19831 Posts
                              Offline
                              Posted: August 4, 2011, 2:39 pm - IP Logged

                              Has anybody done the math?  Some "computer" guy claims to know what is going on and reporters hop on board because it's a great story.  I can tell you that none of the reporters have done the math.  In one story, these big players said that they sometimes lose money.  Sounds a bit like gambling to me.  Generally, the reported win results look good, so perhaps it is all true that spending more can even out the odds, but one might actually run the math before jumping to conclusions.  In the end, the game does what it is supposed to do - make money for the state.  Even if true, is there really anything wrong with designing a lottery game that can appeal to folks willing and able to drop a half million?

                              A person spending $2 can still take the jackpot.

                              Ohio has a 649 game Classic Lotto which has gone over a year without a jackpot winner which is now at $40.4M with a cash value of $20.2M.  If it was easy for anyone with $13,983,816 to buy all the possible combinations in three days and win the jackpot plus $1,828,790 in other prizes, others probably wouldn't continue to buy tickets?

                              There are other states with games that investors can buy lots of tickets and possible make a profit but they are not a sure bet because states generally have rules that don't allow players with unlimited funds to control the outcomes of their games easily. 

                              Massachusetts probably hoped that enough big spenders would try to beat the games that they all would come up short and the state would be the only winner but it seems most of the times according to the news papers, it didn't come out that way so they had to adjust their rules.

                               * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                                 
                                           Evil Looking