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Texas Lottery suspends sales for 'All or Nothing' game

Topic closed. 46 replies. Last post 3 years ago by Ronnie316.

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jimjwright's avatar - Yellow 3.png
Park City, UT
United States
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January 18, 2009
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Posted: June 4, 2013, 2:45 pm - IP Logged

triples(pick3) and quads(pick4) sell out alot of the times also.

Jimmy

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    Kentucky
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    Posted: June 4, 2013, 3:10 pm - IP Logged

    I Agree! 

    Sure, the game was paying out a few percentage more than it should, but GTECH notified the TLC of another problem. They are the ones that see the number population, coverage of combinations, duplicates/overlap, and betting patterns. They probably saw a potential problem with an extremely high prize liability looming in the near future.

    The math is one thing, but lotteries operate with annual budgets, which could get clobbered due to certain people not acting like random number generators...the nerve! Wink

    I don't see how they can limit wagers, or even if they remove the odd/even boxes, players can still do it manually. What they might do is similar to what PB and MM has, is to add pari-mutuel exceptions in the game rules, a cap on prize liability if the total exceeds some set amount or percentage of sales.

    "The math is one thing, but lotteries operate with annual budgets, which could get clobbered due to certain people not acting like random number generators...the nerve!"

    The QP players probably figured out they should play the remaining numbers too and double those wins. Maybe they didn't do the math the jackpot for nothing is the same as for all.

    "What they might do is similar to what PB and MM has, is to add pari-mutuel exceptions in the game rules, a cap on prize liability if the total exceeds some set amount or percentage of sales."

    They could create a $10 million jackpot limit and either limit the number of wagers to 40 tickets or tell the players up front it will be divided. As silly as it sounds, taking the High/Low and Even/Odd boxes off the playslips might solve that problem.

      Jon D's avatar - calotterylogo
      Los Angeles, California
      United States
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      Posted: June 4, 2013, 3:52 pm - IP Logged

      triples(pick3) and quads(pick4) sell out alot of the times also.

      Jimmy

      Is this limiting of duplicate number combos disclosed or confirmed anywhere by the lottery/state? What is the number or percentage? What does the terminal say when a number is rejected?

      And I think this is could be viewed as borderline fraud, if it is not disclosed. So if someone gets a quick pick generated at the terminal, it is not just a (pseudo) random number, it is also checked against existing numbers wagered with certain numbers withheld from the RNG results. If they start doing this on a lotto style game like All or Nothing, they should disclose that.

      We don't have that issue here in CA, as all prizes are pari-mutuel for all draw games, so there is no unexpected/underfunded prize liability. You either control that on the front end with limiting wagers and number combos, which can cause player angst, or do it on the back end with pari-mutuel.(which can cause winner angst)

        savagegoose's avatar - ProfilePho
        adelaide sa
        Australia
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        April 11, 2006
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        Posted: June 4, 2013, 3:56 pm - IP Logged

        According to the Lottery, players have embraced the game and its unique playstyle, pushing sales beyond expectations. All or Nothing
        launched on Sept. 9, 2012, and in its first eight months, the game has generated sales of $62.5 million and $36.7 million in prizes to players.

         

        there's your problem. paying out $36 mill and only taking 62 mill in sales, how is a business meant to run on that?

        2014 = -1016; 2015= -1409; 2016 JAN = -106; FEB= -81; MAR= -131; APR= - 87: MAY= -91; JUN= -39; JUL=-134; AUG= -124; SEP = -123; OCT= -84  NOV=- 73 TOT= -3498

        keno historic = -2291 ; 2015= -603; 2016= JAN=-32, FEB= +12 , MAR= -86, APR = -77. MAY= -48, JUN= -29, JUL=-71; AUG = -52; SEPT= -43; OCT = +56 NOV = -33 TOT= -3297

          Jon D's avatar - calotterylogo
          Los Angeles, California
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          Posted: June 4, 2013, 4:27 pm - IP Logged

          According to the Lottery, players have embraced the game and its unique playstyle, pushing sales beyond expectations. All or Nothing
          launched on Sept. 9, 2012, and in its first eight months, the game has generated sales of $62.5 million and $36.7 million in prizes to players.

           

          there's your problem. paying out $36 mill and only taking 62 mill in sales, how is a business meant to run on that?

          Different games have different profit margins. Lotto and pick3/4 typically are structured to have 50% total prize payout. The highest payout are Scratch games, with 60-70% prize payout.

          This TX All or Nothing game seems to be in the middle, designed to pay out around 56% in prizes, although right now in the early stages of it's life is paying out 58% with some lucky hits recently.

          A careful mix of games and profit margins in various states gives them a total 50-60% prize payout to the public. So you don't want one particular game sucking up the profits and reserves of the rest of the lottery unexpectedly.

            jimjwright's avatar - Yellow 3.png
            Park City, UT
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            Posted: June 4, 2013, 4:27 pm - IP Logged

            Is this limiting of duplicate number combos disclosed or confirmed anywhere by the lottery/state? What is the number or percentage? What does the terminal say when a number is rejected?

            And I think this is could be viewed as borderline fraud, if it is not disclosed. So if someone gets a quick pick generated at the terminal, it is not just a (pseudo) random number, it is also checked against existing numbers wagered with certain numbers withheld from the RNG results. If they start doing this on a lotto style game like All or Nothing, they should disclose that.

            We don't have that issue here in CA, as all prizes are pari-mutuel for all draw games, so there is no unexpected/underfunded prize liability. You either control that on the front end with limiting wagers and number combos, which can cause player angst, or do it on the back end with pari-mutuel.(which can cause winner angst)

            I think it depends in each state on how they handle it or what they set as their liability limit.  I found the following on the Florida Lottery Pick3 site:

            Unlike the Lottery's other terminal games, which are pari-mutuel in design (that is, players are vying for a portion of what is in the prize pool), Cash 3 and Play 4 offer set prize payouts. Therefore, the Lottery has established a $10 million liability limit for Cash 3 for any particular three-digit number for each drawing. Should any three digit combination (for example 777) be purchased often enough in a single drawing that would result in the liability limit being exceeded, the Lottery will "cut off" further sales of that specific number combination. In addition, no Front Pair or Back Pair that involves the first two or last two digits, respectively, of the three-digit number will be allowed for that drawing. Players that have already played those numbers will still win the full amount of the set prize even if the liability limit has been met. For more details on this issue, please refer to the  Cash 3 game rule, section (1)(h).

            Jimmy

              RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
              mid-Ohio
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              Posted: June 4, 2013, 4:38 pm - IP Logged

              According to the Lottery, players have embraced the game and its unique playstyle, pushing sales beyond expectations. All or Nothing
              launched on Sept. 9, 2012, and in its first eight months, the game has generated sales of $62.5 million and $36.7 million in prizes to players.

               

              there's your problem. paying out $36 mill and only taking 62 mill in sales, how is a business meant to run on that?

              Maybe some high rollers have come up with a winning scheme like what happened in Massachusetts.  The lottery would only start losing money if the regular players felt the high rollers had an unfair advantage and stopped playing. 

              I would be surprised if Texas didn't have a liability clause somewhere in their rules.  Ohio has them but most players never bother to read them even when they are printed on the play slips as was the case a few years ago when Buckeye5 had a top prize of $100K with a cap of $1M if there were more than ten winners.  A guy brought 20 tickets with the same combination which won and he sued when he got 20/21 shares of $1M instead of the $2M he thought he won.  He lost the case.

               * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                 
                           Evil Looking       

                helpmewin's avatar - dandy
                u$a
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                Posted: June 4, 2013, 5:32 pm - IP Logged

                That's why if you have a system that works, keep it quiet. The minute 'they' know, they will stop it or change it.

                i suppose it may look that way,LOL but that's not true.

                it's just a simple updated thing everything needs updated from time to time


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                  Posted: June 4, 2013, 5:54 pm - IP Logged

                  i suppose it may look that way,LOL but that's not true.

                  it's just a simple updated thing everything needs updated from time to time

                  I Agree! I like updates to the game. It keeps things interesting.


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                    Posted: June 4, 2013, 5:54 pm - IP Logged

                    I wish MM would start charging $5. per line.

                      helpmewin's avatar - dandy
                      u$a
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                      Posted: June 4, 2013, 6:26 pm - IP Logged

                      I Agree! I like updates to the game. It keeps things interesting.

                      paranormal activity why they even playing Hit With Stick


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                        Posted: June 4, 2013, 6:32 pm - IP Logged

                        paranormal activity why they even playing Hit With Stick

                        They play for the thrill of the fight.

                          helpmewin's avatar - dandy
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                          Posted: June 4, 2013, 6:38 pm - IP Logged

                          They play for the thrill of the fight.


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                            Posted: June 4, 2013, 6:53 pm - IP Logged

                                   Wink

                              PlayToWin47's avatar - Lottery-041.jpg
                              Joplin MO
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                              Posted: June 4, 2013, 9:35 pm - IP Logged

                              I don't have a link but I do know in Ohio on certain holidays, historical or special dates, if you want to play those numbers (pick3 or pick4) you have to play them early because they are cut off after a certain amount has be wagered on them.  I assumed that was standard in most other states too.

                              Seriously?!?  I have never played pick3 or pick4 games, so don't know anything about them, but it blows my mind that on any game where you pick your own numbers, you might not be allowed to play the numbers you want!!!  What a rip-off!!!