LONG BEACH, Calif. — A Long Beach resident is suing the California State Lottery Commission and a local liquor store for failing to honor a winning Scratchers ticket worth $5 million.
Ward Thomas is suing the commission and Los Altos Mobil for damages resulting from the loss and denial of the winning ticket.
In the lawsuit, Thomas claims on or around Oct. 16 at 8 p.m. he and his 16-year-old son Benjamin went to the store to buy California Lottery tickets, which they had done in the past.
At Ward's request, he sent his son inside with 12 "Deluxe 7's" Scratchers that totaled $330 in winnings. He asked his son to exchange the tickets for more Scratchers, according to the lawsuit.
Benjamin bought five Scratchers tickets at $20 each and was given the remaining $230 to take home. When Ward and his son went home, they played the tickets and a "100X The Money" ticket resulted in a winning amount of $5 million.
According to Thomas's claim, he validated the ticket at a 7-Eleven in the 1700 block of Palo Verde Avenue around 9:54 p.m. that night. He then validated the ticket again the next day at the state's Lottery District in Santa Ana.
Ward said he then submitted the claim for the winning ticket and was told by the commission he was the winner of the $5 million prize.
But on Dec. 5, the commission denied his claim for the money, stating the ticket was purchased by his son who could not legally play the lottery, according to the suit.
The plaintiff claims that at no time did the store tell his son he could not purchase Scratchers tickets because of his age. He also claims his son was not asked to have an adult present to buy the tickets or that he provide his identification.
In the lawsuit, it claims the commission failed in operating by its own rules properly and failed to have Benjamin informed that he could not buy a ticket because of his age. It also states his son was not asked for an ID by the store, which means the store failed to verify his son's age before allowing him to get a ticket and that Benjamin was not informed any winnings would be invalidated.
The suit goes on to say there were no signs at the store, that the commission failed to honor Ward's winning ticket, it improperly trained retailers about the lottery rules, especially when it comes to the age of the buyer, and not having stores properly enforce those rules.
The lawsuit states Ward has suffered and will continue to suffer financial losses including interest and other damages because of the ongoing issue. It also said Ward suffers emotionally, which totals about $50,000 in damages.
The California Lottery Commission said it could not comment because of pending litigation.
I know when some one wins PB or MM or Calif SL, the lottery people show up and grab the video of it being sold and put up banners. In this case, as soon as he verified it, would they swoop in and grab the video? Or, would the store owner have tipped them off? Do vendors make money from winning scratchers? If so, why wd they have snitched? Oh, well, hope the guy prevails in his suit.
Why would an adult not understand that lottery tickets are a form of gambling? Plus, that gambling can only be performed by certain aged people decided by each state's legislators? Why did this stupid adult ruin a fine win for a legal aged ticket buying person? Darn!
.
I hope the people trying to play rip-offs get ripped off.
I hope the dad/son win their law suit and that this never happens to any
other player in otherwise good standing with their community.
It's just ridiculous. Do the wrong people think they're going to have a leg to stand on?
State law prohibits the sale of a Lottery ticket or the payment of a prize to a person under 18 years of age. Tickets failing validation are void. All California Lottery game tickets, transactions, claims and prize payments are subject to California State law and the California State Lottery rules and regulations.
What is the penalty for the retailer who sells tickets to under age buyers? This liquor store had made transactions with this 16 year old before. If other people are doing this, this will stop them.
I agree that the STORE should also get in trouble, such as lose their right to sell tickets for at least a year.
As an 8 year old who was routinely sent down to the corner store for a gallon of milk, a loaf of bread, and a carton of smokes
, I see nothing wrong with with this. The kid was acting as his father's agent.
FREE THE MONEY!!!
[It's amazing how they had no problems IDing the kid but couldnt ID who bought the $60 million super lotto ticket and lost it a couple of years ago.
California screwed that guy, is trying to screw this guy, screws everybody with the pari-mutuel system, and screws superlotto players because winning tickets are maybe once a year.]
FREE THE MONEY!
Hmmm....So basically if I gift tickets at Christmas,and the person rightfully files the claim,the state can deny the payout? Or how did they know the age of the person? I doubt the state is that good at looking at video to say...Hey that's an underage kid! It would need someone verifying it with a birth record. Sorry,but the guy filed properly and payout is due him..May he prevail.
If you're under 18 years of age, you are not legally allowed to play. That store is ridiculous not carding or id'ing a 16 year old kid. I mean what kid at 16 still doesn't look like a kid. I still get carded sometimes and I'm way over. I don't think he'll win his case. He was wrong in sending his son to buy the tickets, and stupid I will add, no grown up allows a kid to take on the responsibility that they should take on themself. He's just trying to prove that the law doesn't matter because he was wrong. But it does. There are multiple people at fault here, not just him. It's too bad of a lesson for the kid to learn, because the kid is not at fault here, but if that guy ever dreamed of hitting a jackpot he should've bought the tickets himself.
*I don't believe vendors make anything on jackpot scratcher tickets.
**On a jackpot winning ticket, they could see the video and once the guy comes in to claim they could see that he's not the kid in the video.
The camera never lies, as if people aren't aware enough that their lives and every move is being watched everywhere on camera.
I think this is a losing case cause #1.. the father must have known no one under 18 can't gamble and buy tickets. All the judge have to ask is did you knew it was illegal for your son to buy tickets??? and if he says yes.. case over. The store was in the wrong but so was the dad.. What was wrong with walking in the store with our son and buy tickets???? sad.. in a weird turn of events if the dad did went in and brought tickets ..would he have picked out the winning scratcher??? That is one to ponder about lol
This is crazy. I don't care if a 5 year old bought it, it's still a winning ticket.
I'm pretty sure it's not the kid's signature that's on the back of the scratcher.
I hope they win.
Attorney: The kid wasnt buying tickets. What he did is transport the money from his father, who was buying the tickets, to the clerk, and then transported the tickets immediately to the buyer, the dad, who was in the car right outside the store. Probably couldnt find a parking spot.
Judge: Well, when you put it that way --- I find for the plaintiff.
FREE DA MONEY!!!
Exactly. Now if the 16 year old tried to cash it in I can see it but they are doing everything they can not to pay out. I hope they win as well.
We all knew from almost the beginning of this story CA Lottery was going to try to prevent paying because of the kid's age. WHAT A CROCK. As someone mentioned, he was only buying the tickets for his father. If there was no father in sight, then a different outcome, this is so asinine. I hope CA LOTTERY LOSES THIS ONE.
I also was sent to the store for smokes as a kid...31 cents a pack then. LOL!
These deadbeats are just looking for excuses to not pay up !
There have been many instances of casinos not paying out jackpots to minors (age 18 - 21 depending on jurisdiction). So this is not unprecedented. However, for the CA lottery to do this, especially given the specific circumstances, seems foolish in the long run. Whether CA Lottery will lose many millions in sales is debatable, but potentially could.
Personally, if I was in California I'd be leery of buying lottery tickets (buying less, at least for awhile; avoiding large payout games) knowing the CA Lottery is going out of its way to not pay winners. While not directly related to this, I get the same vibe with New Mexico Lottery and its overly short 90 day claim period; not wanting to payout prizes.
All in all, stories like this will encourage some players to direct more of their wagering to other venues, such as casinos, which often payout more quickly with less fanfare. I've seen players hit for hundreds of thousands and be paid out on the spot. Never see that with the lottery. It's wait and wait, and hope for the best.
Me too! There is the doctrine of unclean hands...but for the lottery store selling to a minor...on behalf of the father...there would be no issue. The father should not be penalized for their mistake. Maybe the father can claim he was in sight of the child.
The SON did NOT LAY claim to this winnings. The Father filed properly. Unsure if some of the sideline jurors of this issue understand that simple statement. The ADULT claimed and the State denied the ADULT.
If they went home and scratched the ticket. And the father went to the commissioners office with that ticket to cash it in. How would the commissioner's office know who bought it. If the kid found it in the trash? Which he did not. Wouldn't that be the same thing if the adult went to the commissioner' office and cashed it in?
There is something very strange going on with this scenario. He should be paid. Period. End of story. There has got to be more to this than we know about. It does not make any sense whatsoever.
he and his 16-year-old son Benjamin went to the store to buy California Lottery tickets, which they had done in the past.
At Ward's request, he sent his son inside with 12 "Deluxe 7's" Scratchers that totaled $330 in winnings. He asked his son to exchange the tickets for more Scratchers, according to the lawsuit.
Benjamin bought five Scratchers tickets at $20 each and was given the remaining $230 to take home.
This sounds like it is on the lottery solely. At no time did they ask for an ID.
Come on, you can't change the law as you see fit. This is America, the U.S. of A. We are as litigious as you can get. You know that'll never clear. Look of course I would want anybody including myself to win that 5 million bucks, but I would know better than to send a 16 year old kid into buy a lottery ticket. I got kicked out of OTB trying to cash a ticket once. It doesn't matter, you can't permit kids in gambling scenarios whatsoever. Period.
No one changed the law. All statutes are subject to interpretation by other statutes and/or case law. That's a lot of money to roll over on and forfeit and they should not do it. Fight like hell, I say! And as already noted by myself and others, California is doing everything possible not to pay up on claims, including but not limited to their excessive delays in paying claims. Hell, it's as if it is Illinois!
FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FOR THE RIGHT TO JACKPOTSSSSSSSSSS!
They need to flush that law down the toilet.
You know the difference between your typical 16 yr old and 18 yr old in regards to behavior? Nothing.
The ticket was obtained illegally by someone not of the age to legally purchase lottery tickets in California. The store should have asked for Id and refused to sell if he didn't meet the age threshold.
It would seem any ticket obtained through illegal means such as stated above is not valid and can not be cashed in, even though it was paid for and turned in by an adult.
Going to be interesting to see the ruling on this.
From what we can glean from the article, the father is using language that his son did buy them but that the store erred in selling to him. Again, without seeing the entire complaint there is no way to know if he is also claiming under alternative legal theories. But, as someone already noted, if the lottery failed in their duty, they should not be rewarded, i.e., doctrine of unclean hands.
You cant just file a lawsuit against the state or a city in California. First, you have to submit a claim and they have 180 days to respond. On the 179th day, they reject it no matter how meritorious the claim is. It's a delaying mechanism.
When I was 16 I would have to agree with ya. But something about grey matter.....lol. Unfortunately, the lottery will never bend the rules to pay someone....Unless it's a hurricane and their offices are shut down and their computers are not working. You didn't hear nothing, Lol. Oh no, my computer is not working what will I do? Lol. I agree with you in the sense that the ticket is the ticket, but I don't think it'll work with the lottery commision or whatever they're called.
l am willing to "bet a $1 mil * fantasy money" that this dad loses this lawsuit against the CA lottery Commission. Whose willing to put up a million dollars & challenge me?
Hmm,l guess my case is too strong...
The tickets explicitly state that players need to be 18 or over to play, however, it's not like the kid was the one attempting to claim the big prize. The guy should be able to collect the $5 Million, minus the fine costs for the 16 Year-Old doing the buying on the father's behalf. I really don't get why the father couldn't buy the tickets himself. Was he banned from that particular liquor store?
I think the lotto is going to strip the store for selling to under age minor and not pay the man for having his son cash in his tickets how lazy do you have to be to not cash in your own tickets. I mean I am heavy as a chevy and I still walk to circle k store and big apple market to cash in my small winners and buy tickets.-weshar75
Yeah it's like being sent in as a kid to pay for gas for the parent. You're not old enough to operate a motor vehicle so are you not allowed to pay for gas. Also did the kid look 16 or older? How did they know the kid was 16? I looked 18 or older in high school but never played the lottery until I was 18 and I've only been asked for ID 2x since I started playing.
Pay the Winner his cash.
They are finding a way not to pay him.
He paid for the tickets.
Did his son buy the original tickets.
How often has he been allowed to buy tickets?
My Son has had a Mustache since he was 12 yrs old, everyone has always thought he was my Husband or boyfriend(poor kid) my Daughter 8yrs Younger everyone thinks Is my Sister since she was 12-13, I still got Carded when I'd buy my husbands Cig's or Beer.
If the Father told the same story he's telling now that's how they know that It was kid 16 yr old Son that went an cashed In the Winning Ticket an Bought more which In all the excitement he very well may have who knows? I know the Law states 19 In CA.
CA like any other state Is going to do what ever they can to keep from Paying that amount of Money too anyone!!!
I hope The Father WINS HIS LAWSUIT AN CA HAS TO PAY, sad to say I don't think he will??
GOOD LUCK..
I'd be down right sick to know I was that close to Winning even a million and didn't get It
Exactly! Case law with different fact patterns interpret laws daily. I would take this case! If the father came in there all the time with his son, I would argue they knew he was simply acting as a proxy for his father. So the lottery store freely waived their so called process. Sometimes parents hand kids money to pay for items to teach them adult skills.
It's about who bought the ticket, not who tried to claim the prize. Minors can win and claim prizes, but only if the tickets are legally purchased and then given to the minor. Similarly, an adult can only claim a prize with a ticket that was legally purchased and this ticket wasn't legally purchased. As for why the father didn't go in, who knows. Maybe he's disabled. Maybe he's fat and lazy.
At any rate the father's an idiot, but he's obviously got plenty of company. The law is crystal clear - you've got to be 18 to buy lottery tickets, period. The kid wasn't old enough to buy the tickets, and you can't act on somebody's behalf to buy things you're not legally allowed to buy for yourself. The lottery isn't just entitled to refuse the claim, they're required by law to deny it.
I doubt that there's a valid basis for the claim against the retailer either. It's not their responsibility to educate the kid about the law, so none of the claims related to that have any merit. Laws against selling alcohol to minors are very strict and it's illegal even if a reasonable person would think the minor looks 35, but it's only illegal to knowingly sell lottery tickets to a minor. If the clerk didn't know the kid was a minor the sale wasn't illegal and there's no merit to that part of the claim either. It's illegal for a minor to buy a ticket so the kid's guilty, but that's also irrelevant to the claim. The only possibility for a legitimate claim against the retailer is if they can prove that the clerk knew the kid was under 18. Even that may not be enough since the clerk may have known the kid was buying the tickets on behalf of his father and didn't know that selling to the kid would result in the lottery denying any claim for a prize.
I would NEVER send anyone in to cash in $300 worth of winning tickets !
That Dad is crazy...
This story doesn't make sense. It's the stores word against the customer. If the store is going to get in trouble it's with the city, state, zoning, and the lottery commission for selling the ticket to the minor if the kid is that.
I remember when I first bought an instant ticket at a place near where I live at they asked me for ID.
It would be like a liquor store selling to a minor with a fake id and the store being in serious trouble. Why wasn't the ticket therefore sold to the parent instead.
Did the commission know the kid a minor had bought the ticket and proof the kid actually was sold. Why is the person who is filing the lawsuit going after the store?
Okay I understand your first statement. However the store now has to do a better job, the lawsuit it depends on the lawyers.
The last sentence you're correct. The lottery commission will point out things in the law.
I agree with everything you said, except the "he's fat and lazy" and father's an idiot" parts of course, lol. If what we've read in this article is all there is to the plaintiff's case, I lament to say that I wish they could have been a bit more creative in establishing a legitimate claim. Your angle, KY Floyd, of proving that the clerk knew the kid was under 18 begins to wend it's way toward that creativity, especially if they can then bring in a little philosophical reasoning into it to muddy the waters by linking the usage and ownership of the scratch-offs to who truly bought them.
In essence, the plaintiff can claim that even though his 16 year-old picked up the tickets, the son did not do the actual buying, because the son did not "own" the money used to buy the winning scratch-off tickets, and it was not the son's intent to use the item that was purchased. He, Ward Thomas, who had the intent to use said item, is the real buyer, because without his money, there wouldn't have been a sale. Prohibition laws against minors purchasing liquor, gambling and etcetera, exist to prohibit them from "using" the said item or service. If that is the "intent" of these laws, then the plaintiff can claim that the intent was honored in this case, if in fact Ward Thomas was the one who scratched the tickets, and not his son. It's often seen that in Federal Constitution cases, the "Intent" and "Spirit" of the Law holds more weight than the literal "Letter" of the law. I hope this proves true for Mr. Ward Thomas in California.
For large prize winners (typically, $1 million plus), lotteries will view video recordings, interview the lottery clerk / store owner, check sales logs, etc looking for irregularities...
For all the talk of a lottery ticket being a bearer instrument, the reality, as occurred in this instance, is often different. This has tripped up some discarded ticket winners too, in particular, tickets found in trashcans on the premises of a store verses off the street. While some such winners have prevailed, it's not a slam dunk.
From my layman's understanding, California Lottery has a strong case, unfortunately. It's a shame to see a winner, who from all indications didn't intend to break the rules, get shafted out of $5 million. On a related note, with how financially desperate so many people are today, depending on how the case eventually pans out, this story could have a deadly ending. Unlikely, but winning and then losing is far worse than never winning at all.
Hope it all works out, but as of now, it appears the CA Lottery will legally renege on paying out the $5 million.
Smokey Robinson : A taste of honey's worse then none at all !
Who cares who bought the scratch-off. Winnings go to the holder of the ticket/scratch-off. Does California deny illegal immigrants from lottery winnings? Yea, didn't think so.
1. "In the lawsuit, Thomas claims on or around Oct. 16 at 8 p.m. he and his 16-year-old son Benjamin went to the store to buy California Lottery tickets, which they had done in the past."
It doesn't state if he was present at the time of those previous purchases or if he had sent his underage son into the store to buy the tickets as well.
2. At Ward's request, he sent his son inside with 12 "Deluxe 7's" Scratchers that totaled $330 in winnings. He asked his son to exchange the tickets for more Scratchers, according to the lawsuit.
Without the father present, the underage son could not legally conduct the lottery transaction.
3. According to Thomas's claim, he validated the ticket at a 7-Eleven in the 1700 block of Palo Verde Avenue around 9:54 p.m. that night. He then validated the ticket again the next day (on or around Oct. 17) at the state's Lottery District in Santa Ana.
Ward said he then submitted the claim for the winning ticket and was told by the commission he was the winner of the $5 million prize.
But on Dec. 5, the commission denied his claim for the money, stating the ticket was purchased by his son who could not legally play the lottery, according to the suit.
Does it normally take five weeks (or more) to collect on a jackpot winning scratch ticket?
4. The plaintiff claims that at no time did the store tell his son he could not purchase Scratchers tickets because of his age. He also claims his son was not asked to have an adult present to buy the tickets or that he provide his identification.
You have to assume that he knew that no one under 18 can legally purchase lottery tickets and by asking his 16 year old son to do so was illegal.
5. In the lawsuit, it claims the commission failed in operating by its own rules properly and failed to have Benjamin informed that he could not buy a ticket because of his age. It also states his son was not asked for an ID by the store, which means the store failed to verify his son's age before allowing him to get a ticket and that Benjamin was not informed any winnings would be invalidated.
The suit goes on to say there were no signs at the store, that the commission failed to honor Ward's winning ticket, it improperly trained retailers about the lottery rules, especially when it comes to the age of the buyer, and not having stores properly enforce those rules.
On the back of every lottery ticket it usually states that you must be at least 18 years of age to purchase a lottery ticket.
I am not a lawyer, but I would think that he's not going to win this case. The rules are the rules and he knew that his son was under the minimum age to purchase tickets.
For large prize winners (typically, $1 million plus), lotteries will view video recordings, interview the lottery clerk / store owner, check sales logs, etc looking for irregularities...
But how does one do that with scratchers? In this case, it was validated the next or same day. But what if someone bought a scratcher and didnt validate it for months? There would be no video of it and if they asked the winner when he bought it, he could say he didnt remember. Now, I know video surveillance is now digital and they dont erase it in 24 hours and can store it more easily, but I'm not sure how long they can do it. Think I'll ask next time I'm at the store where I buy my tickets.
Good point. Yes, many stores overwrite / delete video after 30 days or even less, so waiting many months could work. However, not necessarily. Lotteries can know what instant packs contain big prizes, location of the packs, and when those packs are activated and closed out. So it's possible a lottery could seek out video, etc long before a big winning ticket is claimed.
I don't know if any lottery does that, but it wouldn't surprise me if some do, such as California. Whether they'd admit it, don't know. Maybe a FOIA request might shed some light on the matter.
There is that funny line people use that says " Rules are meant to be broken".. Well yeah right, if you avoiding a collision and going over the solid line. But never when it's dealing with the State lottery. Ward is up a creek with this one attempting to take them on.He broke the rules- it's all saber rattling from him at this point. A few years ago, a player came forward to show that it was him purchasing the winning ticket on the store video,the lottery agreed, but he could not produce the ticket and had to walk away empty handed.
Sorry, but I cant imagine the lottery people have the time and manpower to monitor sales that closely. This is a very large state with hundreds of thousands of outlets with some in very rural areas. One time I was driving in northern cal for 5 hours and only saw one other car on the road -- spooky!
To be an agent acting for and in behalf of someone, doesn't that agent have a legal requirement to be able to conform to the stautes of law which allow agent to be able to perform such an act?
So...when using an automated machine ( which my state has- along with play at the pump),Who do they (alledgedly )interview? To validate the person is over 18? Sorry pal, there is no assigned lottery rep driving to kingdom come to interview the clerk about a winning ticket. Most employees don't stick around long enough , higher turn over. So then what? Does lottery run stings.. Sure. This doesn't fall under that circumstance.
This is not a complicated payout. The ticket is legitimate, the filer is of age and no other person is challenging who chipped in to buy it. One person, one payout. Pay up!
It may seem simple to you. But unless I'm mistaken which I am not a minor under legal age has no right to be legitimately gambling in any way shape or form. The ticket was handed to the minor. That's a very simple point to understand and a very clear violation of the State's, i.e. the government, gaming laws. Laws. Period. There's really nothing else to get. But people never think the rules apply to them at the time.
Yes konane, you are correct, the agent(Ward Thomas' 16 year-old son) does assume the "legal requirement to be able to conform to the statutes of law...".
My argument was that a distinction could be made between the Letter(literal interpretation) of the Law and the Spirit(Intent) of the Law. It's fascinating to me that even with our highest court - The U.S. Supreme Court - the outcome isn't always certain, and the Justices often have to wrangle, contentiously so, between these two themes.
Yes, it is unlawful to sell tickets to a minor. This directive is straight forward; Just as its unlawful to sell cigarettes and alcohol to minors. One of the main intentions behind such laws is because we don't believe minors are yet mature enough to "use" these items. If Ward Thomas' son did not use or scratch the ticket, I think a valid legal claim can be made that the Spirit or Intent behind the Prohibition of gambling sales to a minor was not violated in this particular case. In essence, censure and issue a fine against the store, and award Mr. Thomas the 5 million.
There are relatively few jackpot size prizes ($1+ million) in play (active packs for sale right now) at any given time. It's simple for a lottery to detect whether a large jackpot instant ticket has likely sold recently. Presumably, lotteries maintain a log of when every ticket was cashed. Easy to narrow down the approx date and time of when a specific winning ticket was sold based on that. No huge amount of manpower needed for that part.
However, you're right about sales locations being spread far and wide, so it's likely many lotteries don't bother obtaining video, interviews, etc for instant tickets not yet claimed, but something that shouldn't be ruled out. CA Lottery, despite the ticket being properly validated and claimed by the father, is seemingly going out of its way to not pay $5 million.
The father is the holder of the stinking scratch-off! Pay the man California! What if the guy found this scratch-off lying on the sidewalk? Would California still pay? It might have been bought by a 12 year old!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree fellow counsel!
Lol - thank you Artist77!
Fuque the California lottery and the GD horse they rode in on, how many fuquing GD payouts have they given illegals????????? Fuque those money grubbing leftist lottery commissioners they are nazi fascist confiscatory assho1es, give it up you cheap out of money fuqued up left coast whore leftist govt. THIEVES!!!!!!!!!!! Only in Kalifornika, what pile of garbage welcher thieves, they want their 30 pieces of silver. Welchers.
Them sum's a bitches will do whatever the can not to pay someone!
Learning-to-be-a-successful-Lawyer-is-the-best-lottery-win....You-gambled-with-a-Profession-and-won...lol
Im-moving-back-to-Florida...I-knew-I-shouldn't-have-moved-here-to-Los-Angeles.....Crazy-Life..lol
Nothing-Politcal-----!!!
this is such a farce, it shouldn't even be up for debate, pay the money to the adult and fine the store that sold the ticket because it was not for the kid anyway, it was for the father.
Since California, and most states, have self service lottery terminals then I believe their argument of not selling to minors is out. If they do not provide a means of being able to police ALL terminals from being used by minors then they shouldn't have a leg to stand on. I know in this particualr case it was sold by a human, but IMO case law should indicate that if they cannot provide a means, so that no under age person buys lottery tickets state wide , then they should not win in this particular case. They "outlawed" self serv. cigarette vending machines due to them not being able to police who purchases. Could you imagine self serv beer/alcohol machines? So if you provide a means for minors to buy without the ability to enforce it, then in this case the win should be paid out.
That is a very good point.
At Ward's request, he sent his son inside with 12 "Deluxe 7's" Scratchers that totaled $330 in winnings. He asked his son to exchange the tickets for more Scratchers, according to the lawsuit.
Benjamin bought five Scratchers tickets at $20 each and was given the remaining $230 to take home. When Ward and his son went home, they played the tickets and a "100X The Money" ticket resulted in a winning amount of $5 million.
********************************************************************************************************************************
1st. The boy was paid from Lottery Funds by the retailer.
2nd. He never handed the retailer any of his own money, only exchanged. ( He didn't Buy )
3rd. He filed the way he was supposed to file according to their guidelines.
4th. The key is, he never bought the tickets, only exchanged, The Lottery commission
is found Guilty in any Competent Court.
5th. Mans wins 5 Million plus, and Lottery commission is stuck with their heads between their butts.
6th. And Jerry Brown goes in the corner and sucks on his pacifier.
Exactly!
Whats the odds the next time the old man has a winning ticket he will get off his lazy butt and go do his business himself.
We are a nation of laws....laws are laws and are to be obeyed...if not then you suffer any consequences.
As much as I dont like what the california lottery is doing ...I have to agree they are within their rights. There is no reason to make laws or policies if you are not going to enforce them.
Now are a second note of something else i dont like or agree with but it must be written into many state lotteries...and that is if a big winning ticket expires then that money most generally goes back into the lottery. To me that money should be made available to the lottery players in some shape or form... One way of doing it is to give it out in other drawings somehow.... maybe a lower tier of prizes being paid for that next draw...
Yes, we are a nation of laws but in this case and millions of other cases laws are enforced when it pleases & benefits leftist prog
state and fed govts. from said SELECTIVE ENFORCEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!
Just like the GD HACA, that sh1t should be for everybody including Ruth Buzzy Bader Ginburger and John McBlame. etc etc etc . That is how the left and progressives roll.
The lottery players of Cali. should boycott and send a message.
Perhaps this has been forgotten,but the CA lottery Commission has an army of attorneys, these attorneys are well versed in the law, unlike the armchair attorneys here who are giving their opinions as to why Ward should be paid out.The CA lottery Commission is definitely not going to go out on a limb and deny this payout, UNLESS their attorneys have reviewed everything & given them the green light to go ahead and do so. If only Ward had done the right thing from the very beginning..
How many attorneys? An army? How many attorneys in the lootery army of attorneys? I would demand a jury trial, it doesn't matter how many GD attorneys the lottery has, the jury would decide, and if the defense just looked at all these armchair attorney's opinions the defense would have several nuke defenses to destroy that miserable army of leftist prog BS.
When in Rome, do as the Romans do. You have to play by the lottery rules of the State you find yourself in, you do not make up your own as you go along.Ward did not play by the rules. Army or not, Ward has no case Jarasan, even you must see that.
Didn't you read the previous posts? California has machines you can get scratch-offs from. Do those machines check fukn IDs? Quit defending that stinking state. Admit it, you'd rather live in Wisconsin. LOL
Abuses by lotteries extend far beyond not paying out winners due to technicalities. Overly short deadlines for claiming, such as 90 days for New Mexico Lottery tickets. 180 days isn't that much better given that many people travel, etc. Unclaimed prizes adds up to huge amounts of money.
Another angle is making games that are confusing to play. Some ways include: easily missed Bonus play areas, color schemes that make differentiating text difficult, unusual win patterns (ie. Z for a Bingo game, such as PA $3 Bingo Frenzy game #1210). In many instances, that's likely intentional in hopes players miss a win and discard the ticket instead of cashing it. With many lotteries adding self-service prize checkers, this may be less effective as time goes on.
Among other ways to reap extra profits while hurting players is to pull instant tickets off sale early before all the major prizes have been sold. Not referring to unclaimed prizes, but those that were never sold to begin with. Some lotteries add additional tickets to a currently running game (CA Lottery does this and so do many others, including PA), which can make detecting such abuse even more difficult.
All in all, many lotteries, even for games with relatively fixed prize liability, seek out ways to skim even more off for themselves through dubious methods. For privatized lotteries, the situation can often be even worse. Players need to be aware that legal lotteries aren't as trustworthy as they're made out to be; physical big name casinos are often under more stringent oversight than lotteries. Consider who typically monitor the lottery in many jurisdictions, the lottery itself.
Yeah, of course look at (the Romans) Italy today. Why have courts?
You comparing apples with oranges. Ward's mistake was sending his kid in. Had he gone in himself, we wouldn't be discussing this. The State lottery is very aggressive in making sure winners get paid. Back in 2012-13, they actually put the video out of a winner of the MM who had not come forward after 45 days. They have since stopped that practice. Ward has no one else but himself to blame for his laziness, you asking me to side with him on his behavior..I think not.
** If a parent bought a bottle of whiskey from a store,went to the car and after taking it out of the bag, discovered it to be the wrong brand. Would it be "ok" to send the underage child back into the store while they sat in the car, to exchange the whiskey for the correct one?
If his name was Jose would he have been denied? Come on man, be honest. Tell me there aren't 100 minority organizations that wouldn't have filed discrimination lawsuits. Its all political, the guys white.
That is problem, SELECTIVE ENFORCEMENT, arbitrary enforcement, what ever you want to call it, it is wrong keeping that money from that family.
Of course if the kid had a party with alcohol at the parents house, the parents get the fines right? The parents own the kid, they own that scratchy.
Patrick thinks everything is left wing out here. You talking about white money being denied? What is it with you guys?
Who's Patrick and what the heck are you talking about? LOL! Whites are the underclass there, everyone knows it but you.
Whenever l see jarasan's avatar pic, it reminds me of Spongebob's buddy- Patrick. No harm intended.
An excellent point that's been alluded to already in this thread. Furthermore, if the father was an undocumented foreign person ("illegal alien" in non-PC parlance), there would likely have never been an issue to begin with. Or, if the issue did arise, could be conveniently dismissed with the reasoning of it was part of their native culture to send a child to run errands even for age restricted items, such as alcohol and cigarettes.
I wonder if the CA Lottery has ever paid out a large prize winner despite the original purchaser on video being underage? I'd wager they likely have. Sadly, I suspect the CA Lottery discards videos, interviews, etc promptly after a claim is finalized, so the plaintiff in the lawsuit likely won't have much success in pursuing that angle, but worth a try, nevertheless.
What is it with you guys?
Ward Thomas is being discriminated against, could be for one of any random reasons including skin color, again SELECTIVE ENFORCEMENT! Justice and its officials are not blind anymore.
Okay- here's a simple question. Is there Anything that Ward did that was Wrong?
I'm still lost on your post and explanation. I don't have time to watch cartoons. Again, California is wrong. He should sue them for 10 times the amount. How can they have machines selling scratch-offs to anyone and deny this white man the money because his son bought the thing? Answer is...Wait for this....Because he's white. Tell me I'm wrong and explain why.
No. He paid for the scratch-off. The State got their money.
So from what you read in this article,Ward did not do a single thing that is a violation of the lottery rules?
You kidding me? I can't imagine someone from this site defending what California did. You're a lost cause. Enjoy.
You taking this personal. We having a discussion. I want people to win, that's why l am here, but l am not going to bat for someone's stupidity.
I think everyone needs to do whatever it is they do to Calm Down.
Relax...
You'll have plenty of other news articles to fight over.
So did the son actually buy the tickets? No. When I was about 12 or 13 my father and I went to a local deli.
I was sent in to get milk, bread, and cigars for my Dad. The clerk asked me who the cigars were for. I told them,
"My Dad. He's outside in the car." They could see him through the store window. After that I could buy them
anytime. Yeah, it was illegal for them to sell them to an under age kid. But back in the late 60's there weren't
too many 12-13 year olds smoking White Owls and they knew they weren't for me.
So the same thing happened
here with this man and his son. Except the son didn't go in with any $$$. Sometimes there just needs to be some
common sense used. But as the saying goes, "If common sense was so common, more people would have it."
The Ca. lottery doesn't have any. Pay the man.
No, no, Patrick, this is not Opposite Day.
Put the Rock down... Slooowwwly.
Did you know that $5 Million in scratchers would be a great gift idea?
I'll let you scratch mine, if you let me scratch yours.
I don't know how you did that video, but I'm LMAO.
Scratch That
Just another thought. If the kid is that good at picking winners, next time they should go in together and just let the kid pick the scratch offs. But maybe that's how they won the $330 in the first place.
The father was being lazy. The store owner is not responsible either he just selling Lottery Tickets. Why did the father send his child to the store to purchase lottery tickets? It makes no sense and its illegal. My question who receives the 5 million dollar the store owner or the lottery?
The store owner is responsible for following the rules and laws of the Gaming Commision. You can't just use , "uh I don't know I just work here" as an excuse. I can't believe we're actually saying that a scratch off ticket that is worth $5 million bucks is not the same as money. Or scratch off tickets worth $330 bucks either. He got 5 $20 tickets and the rest in cash. How did he buy the 5 $20 tickets, with make believe monoploy money? No with real money. Sorry. A cigar is not worth $5 million bucks. And in the 80's I used to buy cigarettes under age all the time without getting carded, but times have changed. Gotta keep up.
I totally agree with you noise-gate........you have to play by the rules of the state you are playing. Case closed. Ward lost. Now he needs to get over it. Next time if there is one, he needs to get off his lazy butt and go in himself to do whatever.
Everybody is too wound up to enjoy your humor
In PA a minor is not allowed to go into a liquor store without an adult.
I'm assuming CA is the same, so the Dad is at fault for sending his son in there in the first place and then for having him purchase more tickets knowing full well that it's illegal for a minor to do so. If it was a small win they would have gotten away with it.
The examples of buying cigarettes are true but those laws have changed too. Everybody smoked back then,game shows, talk shows and marlboro commercials were the only commercials you saw on tv. We have come a long way since those days.
Bunch of GD hand wringing, the lottery is a tax revenue for the state, and they don't like paying refunds. They love collecting those taxes but when it comes to paying up............................ FUQUE YOU!!!!!
You know like that lock box for the Social Security stuff, right?
In PA a minor is not allowed to go into a liquor store without an adult.
I'm assuming CA is the same....
Nope. And I've never seem a liquor store that didnt sell a lot of other food stuffs.
PA they are still state liquor stores, beer is just starting to make its way into grocery stores. Beer was only sold at distributors. The article called it a liquor store not a convenience store.
In other news today.
Monday arrived and everyone tried to get on with their lives.
Now, over to Smarty with the weather.
Is the sky falling Smarty?
Why, yes it is.
There's a pointless bickering front heading our way.
We can expect a chance of isolated rants today with some occasional scattered memes.
You might want put on a good set waders, because the B.S. is going to be above flood stage.
lol, Couple month's ago, I was at the gas station playing pick 3, a pregnant girl came in and said someone hit a Kangaroo on 5 mile, we told her it was a deer, her response: "Oh, I thought they were hibernating"
That never made the news either.
Is there Anything that Ward did that was Wrong?
You mean besides sending his kid into a lottery retailer to commit a crime?
"So did the son actually buy the tickets? No."
Some of you people wouldn't be the sharpest thing in a tub of cool whip. If the kid didn't buy the lottery tickets then it's even more clear that neither he nor his father ever became the lawful owner of the winning ticket. Of course the reality is that the ticket was paid for with the prize money from the other tickets, and you've got to be pretty stupid to think that not actually passing money back and forth changes that.
Very, Very Funny Sully!!
Thank You for the Laugh!!!
You go freshen up and I'll tell you about my furry rims.
You're welcome.
What a litigious society we live in. Hope the Judge tosses this for wasting the court's time. Don't know about lotteries countersuing, but I do know healthcare corporations will in a (pardon the pun) in a heartbeat and they usually win. Since I work in healthcare can't comment too much on that matter even though it was another hospital chain, not mine.
In my layman's view, suing the California Lottery (and by extension the agent location that sold the tickets), while unlikely to be successful, is worthwhile given the amount of money at stake.
Unfortunately, it appears CA Lottery age requirements are very strict in regards to acquiring tickets. I read through the regulations and it looks very bleak for the plaintiff. In particular, the repeated mention of "Disqualified Persons", "Player", and related details to instant tickets and claiming prizes.
“Disqualified Persons” means persons prohibited by statute, regulation, or contract with the Lottery from purchasing a Lottery Ticket or Registered Play and/or winning a Lottery Prize or participating in a Promotion and/or receiving a Promotional Award and includes: (1) persons under the age of 18 years; (2) members of the Commission; (3) any officer or employee of the Lottery or the Commission; (4) any officer or employee of the California State Controller’s Office who is designated in writing by the Controller as possibly having access to confidential Lottery information, programs, or systems; (5) any Contractor or subcontractor prohibited by the terms of a contract with the Lottery from playing Lottery games; and (6) any spouse, child, brother, sister, or parent who resides in the same household as any person described in numbers (2), (3), or (4) herein. For purposes of this definition, the terms “parent”, “child”, “brother”, and “sister” will include only those persons that are related by blood or adoption.
“Player” is a natural person who legally acquires a Ticket, Registered Play, or entry to participate in a Lottery game or Promotion. Player, as used in these regulations, includes the plural form.
5.4 DETERMINING THE WINNER
5.4.1. Natural Persons Winners must be natural persons.
5.4.2. Winner Defined A Winner is a Player who is not a Disqualified Person, who legally acquires a winning Ticket and owns it at the time it is determined to be a winning Ticket either by a Draw or by scratching the play area. Except as otherwise provided in these regulations, a Winner need not have purchased the Ticket; however, the Winner must Claim the Prize. A 2nd Chance Winner is a person whose eligible entry is drawn in a 2nd Chance Draw and who is identified on the Lottery website as the Winner of that Draw.
5.4.6. Investigation of Claims
A. If a person submits a valid winning Ticket bearing his/her signature on the back, and a Claim form which bears his/her signature and complete information consistent with his/her ownership of the Ticket, the Lottery will pay the Prize in reliance upon presumptions. The Lottery will not withhold payment in the absence of a court order requiring it to do so.
B. The Lottery may investigate a Claim if:
(1) The information on the Ticket or on the Claim form indicates that the Claimant may not be the winner,
(2) Any other credible evidence indicates that the Claimant may not be the winner and the Director and Deputy Director of Security authorize such investigation, or
(3) The Claim is submitted by a Lottery Retailer
5.4.8. Disqualified Persons
A. Disqualified Persons cannot be Winners. They are prohibited from purchasing Lottery Tickets or Registered Plays or from Claiming a Prize. This prohibition includes purchasing Mega Millions, or Powerball Tickets or Registered Plays or Claiming Mega Millions, or Powerball Prizes in any state participating in those games.
B. The Lottery shall maintain a current list of Disqualified Persons.
C. Prize Claims resulting from winning California Lottery Tickets or Registered Plays purchased or obtained by Disqualified Persons are invalid.
D. In the event that a winning Ticket or Registered Play is purchased or Claimed by a Disqualified Person, the Prize will be treated as an unclaimed Prize.
The above bolded sections are select excerpts from CA Lottery regulations that seem most pertinent to this topic. Full text is linked below:
http://static.www.calottery.com/~/media/Retailer/policies-regulations/Approved%20Regulations%2009-22-16.pdf
To add insult to injury, he should be charged with corruption of a minor. I wonder if when it's all over if this guy will ever play again. It sucks for sure but he has only himself to blame.
l got to thinking about the back and forth that went on between the lottery commission & Ward today. Initially the case was cut and dried, so let's be flies on the wall and take this in.
LC* Lottery Commission :Mr Ward, we are well aware of you checking your ticket, and we are more than willing to give you your check, however as with all winners in CA, we reviewed the security tapes at the store your ticket was purchased, and you sir, are no where in the picture. Who purchased the winning ticket?
Ward: Oh, that would be my son.
LC: We would like him to appear before the commission so we could ask him a few questions, it's routine.
Ward: Why do you need to do that?
LC : Well, we do that with all winners, we need to make absolute certain that the person who purchased the ticket, is the one standing before us.
Ward: Ok..
Ward & Son show up and the very first thing the LC asks is " We can tell from the video that it is you who purchased the ticket, that's great, btw,How old are you young man?.. Son looks at his Dad and say 16.
LC: 16? .LC members look at each other and look at Ward and tell him, you know that this makes this "win" of yours null and void!
Ward: Huh, what do you mean?
... You can fill in the blanks from there..
Noise-gate that was way too funny. Probably true though, they do their security checks, rules are rules and let this loser sue and lose.
Thomas claims on or around Oct. 16 at 8 p.m. he and his 16-year-old son Benjamin went to the store to buy California Lottery tickets, which they had done in the past. --------- Benjamin bought five Scratchers tickets at $20 each and was given the remaining $230 to take home.
Which part of it's illegal for a 16-year-old to buy lottery tickets and collect the winnings am I missing?
In CA you have to be 18 to legally purchase a lottery ticket. Some states the age is 21.
Most states lotteries allow 18-year-old players, but it's 21 in Arizona, Iowa, and Louisiana and 19 in Nebraska. Only 4 states allow 18-year-olds in other types of , gambling, 18 states allow some gambling (bingo, horse and dog racing) at 18, but 28 states have no other type of gambling at 18.
Yes, but the son is 16 not 18 and that's why it's an illegal purchase and disqualifies the win.
Yep and the retailer might have a problem too. Lots of stories about underage players winning slot jackpots at casinos with the usual frivolous litigation.
I agree but as the parent of the 16 year old the responsibility falls on him. The store shouldn't have been put in that situation in the first place. Just because it sounds like they were regulars doesn't make it right.
We're talking California here. Problem is his name is Ward Thomas not Jose Gonzales. Tell me I'm wrong.
You are wrong and if you asked if you are ignorant I would have to agree.
Thank God I'm not a brain-dead liberal. Hello? Do you know anything about California politics??? Yea, I didn't think so.