Arizona Lottery pulls second computerized drawing machine over duplicate numbers

Nov 23, 2017, 12:37 pm (83 comments)

Arizona Lottery

Lottery will TEMPORARILY switch to real ball drawings while new computerized drawing machines are prepared

By Todd Northrop

The Arizona Lottery has taken a second computerized lottery drawing machine out of operation because it repeatedly chose duplicate numbers.

Just last month the Arizona Lottery took its first computerized drawing machine out of service for the same problem.  (See Arizona Lottery computerized drawing machine generated identical winning numbers, Lottery Post, Oct. 6, 2017.)

Arizona Lottery executive director Gregg Edgar said he was not embarrassed about the computerized drawing machine failure.

Now, a month later, the lottery is again offering to replace more customer-purchased lottery tickets over the failure of its other machine.

An announcement made by the lottery Wednesday says winning tickets will still be honored but that refunds or exchanges are being offered for losing tickets for the Pick 3 game played between Nov. 15 and Nov. 21, when the numbers 8-0-4 were chosen three times.

The Arizona Lottery temporarily will be utilizing the Multi-State Lottery Association’s (MUSL) Halogen lottery draw machine for all in-state games. This machine was purchased from SmartPlay by MUSL and the machine uses rubber balls to draw the numbers randomly.

During this temporary period, not only will the numbers be drawn randomly, but because it is a real lottery ball machine, any witness to the drawing can clearly see the numbers being drawn, and thus know for sure that the drawing was untainted by error or malice.  With computerized drawings it is literally impossible for a human to witness the actual drawing taking place, so the potential for error or other issues can never be completely eliminated.

Unfortunately for Arizona Lottery players, the lottery will return to the use of computerized drawing machines on December 11, 2017, using new machines that were purchased from SmartPlay in August. 

To be fair, within the odds structure of the Pick 3 game, numbers can and do duplicate. However, the rapid succession of duplicated numbers is unusual, especially when juxtaposed to the similar computerized drawing failures of a month ago.

Players with non-winning tickets that were purchased from November 15 to November 21, 2017 for the Pick 3 can return their tickets to Arizona Lottery for an exchange or refund. All prizes won for draws in this timeframe will be honored and paid out.

The Arizona Lottery says an independent investigation is being conducted on both machines, and the results of those investigations will be made available to the public.

Players can refund or exchange their tickets by mailing them in, or visiting the following locations:

  • PHOENIX OFFICE | Arizona Lottery Headquarters — 4740 E. University, Phoenix, AZ 85034

    (480) 921-4400 | Monday through Friday 8 a.m. - 5 p.m. | Closed Holidays

  • TUCSON OFFICE | 2900 E. Broadway Blvd, Suite 190, Tucson, AZ 85716

    520.628.5107 | Monday through Friday | 8 a.m. - 5 p.m. | Closed Holidays

  • PHOENIX SKY HARBOR | Terminal 4 Baggage Claim

    (480) 921-4424 | Sun: 11 a.m. - 7 p.m. | M, Th, Fr, Sat: 7 a.m. - 10 p.m. | Tu, We: 7 a.m. - 7 p.m. | Closed Holidays

Arizona Lottery offices are closed for the Thanksgiving holiday, but will be open at 8:00 AM on Friday, November 24.

Lottery Post Staff

Comments

music*'s avatarmusic*

 It is now up to the Arizona Lottery players to vote with their dollars. Spend or not spend on computerized drawings. Vote with their dollars on real lottery ball machines. 

Dance

Hermanus104's avatarHermanus104

Although the RNG can't be ruled out, these things sometimes happen even when balls are used. 

Virginia, a ball state, drew 805 in the daytime three times in seven days. Texas, another ball state, take their randomness very seriously. They even post their pre-draw results online. Still, I remember Texas drawing 277 three times in four days. I'm pretty sure it was in 2009 or 2010 - back when they were still doing only two drawings per day.

However, I do applaud Arizona for even temporarily going to ball drawings.

sam9009's avatarsam9009

I don't understand.

There's repeats in live ball drawings too.

 

spartan1707's avatarspartan1707

I Knew it. I complained to them multiple times and they refused to look into it. Last drawing of 804 which was drawn again back on the 10th. They are slowly getting caught at their pick the least drawn numbers for each pick3 game. But the problem is much deeper than this. I pointed out how other states who have 1 drawing a day only pick a number drawn again at less than 15% throughout the yr. Yet Arizona has multiple numbers which are drawn multiple  times through out the yr such as 804-802-319-and doubles as well. Does anyone know how to sue the state which uses MSL as their lottery drawer? There is plenty of evidence directly from them to prove that they are rigging the drawings. This article says Arizona only had 3 drawings of 804 but it is actually 4. There are other numbers as well.

noise-gate

l wonder if Edgar is " embarrassed" this time around? It's no different than buying the same model car twice, having problems with both, but deciding its in your best interest to stick with them. Lotterypost could sent a copy to Arizona news organization on their drive to return to mechanical drawings.l say: Let it hit the fan!

*  Going to follow the contours of the turkey, in 90 minutes.

LiveInGreenBay's avatarLiveInGreenBay

I like RNG computers.  The numbers aren't random.

gregs241's avatargregs241

Whether electronic or mechanical drawings, ALL procedures by the lottery associations need to be open and transparent to the general public.  Thank you.

LiveInGreenBay's avatarLiveInGreenBay

Quote: Originally posted by gregs241 on Nov 23, 2017

Whether electronic or mechanical drawings, ALL procedures by the lottery associations need to be open and transparent to the general public.  Thank you.

Sometime ago I emailed the Wisconsin lottery asking to receive a list of pre-draws for supercash.  They told me I had to file a freedom of information request and it could take a few weeks.  LOL

Ron5995

Quote: Originally posted by LiveInGreenBay on Nov 23, 2017

I like RNG computers.  The numbers aren't random.

Exactly! In my view, finding and exploiting RNG flaws is a great lottery system.

I'd like to see an article on RNG machine hardware along with how RNGs typical function in detail, including specific draw procedures.

One would think with all the scandals and problems, Arizona would go ball draw indefinitely. But it's cheaper and easier to use  RNG. Presumably, AZ Lottery figures most numbers players will continue to play, regardless.

However, if these RNG problems keep happening, there may come a tipping point. It already has happened with Hot Lotto being replaced with Lotto America, which is ball draw.

JoeBigLotto's avatarJoeBigLotto

Left to me I will take all thoes computerised machine and sholve it somewhere I can't type at moment on all thoes managers making decisions . I prefer that to my money back Bash

JADELottery's avatarJADELottery

Yeeaah... called it.

https://www.lotterypost.com/news/315821/5294580

"

The only take away we get from this is, it appears they are desperately trying to avoid the demon that lurks within computer generated numbers.

We have our own take as to why this happened, however, it's just speculation.

In the meantime, as long as this problem is not seriously addressed, it will happen again.

Like all things these days, it will be handled by alleviating the symptoms.

At this point, word marking are the words of the day.

Everyone should Watch for it and Profit from it.

Good Luck.

"

 

And the problem continues...

Stack47

The Arizona Lottery has taken a second computerized lottery drawing machine out of operation because it repeatedly chose duplicate numbers.

Why hasn't a third grader somebody explained to the Arizona Lottery director the problem is with the program? 

RL-RANDOMLOGIC

I see this all the time playing around with RNG's.  What baffles me is how the thing ever made

it into service.  I guess they forgot to test it after downloading it off the net.

Clown

RL

kowal4

Just wanted to point out that DEC 7 is "a date which will live in infamy", not DEC 11.

bigdaddy's avatarbigdaddy

Both draw methods have holes in them,they are predictable...if I can take the same 125 pick 4 numbers and hit 3 draws in a row..like I'm doing in LA LOTTERY right now....it can be done

MillionsWanted's avatarMillionsWanted

Well, that was a bit.... EMBARRASSING. Roll Eyes

LottoBux's avatarLottoBux

Quote: Originally posted by JADELottery on Nov 23, 2017

Yeeaah... called it.

https://www.lotterypost.com/news/315821/5294580

"

The only take away we get from this is, it appears they are desperately trying to avoid the demon that lurks within computer generated numbers.

We have our own take as to why this happened, however, it's just speculation.

In the meantime, as long as this problem is not seriously addressed, it will happen again.

Like all things these days, it will be handled by alleviating the symptoms.

At this point, word marking are the words of the day.

Everyone should Watch for it and Profit from it.

Good Luck.

"

 

And the problem continues...

I Agree!You Could Just Play 804 Straight Every Draw.

Tue, Nov 21, 2017 Arizona Pick 3 8-0-4
Wed, Nov 15, 2017 Arizona Pick 3 8-0-4
Mon, Oct 9, 2017 Arizona Pick 3 8-0-4
Thu, Aug 17, 2017 Arizona Pick 3 4-0-8
Thu, Sep 29, 2016 Arizona Pick 3 8-0-4
Thu, Jul 21, 2016 Arizona Pick 3 0-4-8
Thu, Jun 23, 2016 Arizona Pick 3 8-0-4
Sat, Apr 18, 2015 Arizona Pick 3 8-0-4

So Now They Are Temporarily Using A Ball Drawn Machine

And Yesterday 000 Hits? Makes You Wonder.....

DELotteryPlyr's avatarDELotteryPlyr

Quote: Originally posted by LottoBux on Nov 24, 2017

I Agree!You Could Just Play 804 Straight Every Draw.

Tue, Nov 21, 2017 Arizona Pick 3 8-0-4
Wed, Nov 15, 2017 Arizona Pick 3 8-0-4
Mon, Oct 9, 2017 Arizona Pick 3 8-0-4
Thu, Aug 17, 2017 Arizona Pick 3 4-0-8
Thu, Sep 29, 2016 Arizona Pick 3 8-0-4
Thu, Jul 21, 2016 Arizona Pick 3 0-4-8
Thu, Jun 23, 2016 Arizona Pick 3 8-0-4
Sat, Apr 18, 2015 Arizona Pick 3 8-0-4

So Now They Are Temporarily Using A Ball Drawn Machine

And Yesterday 000 Hits? Makes You Wonder.....

Wonder if today's winning number will be

      Green laugh001  Green laugh

Also, MD throws ALOT of repeats, we have documented how bad in out pick 3 threads.  I get the feeling the PRE-TESTS also had the 804 hitting. 

Kingofearth's avatarKingofearth

Quote: Originally posted by LottoBux on Nov 24, 2017

I Agree!You Could Just Play 804 Straight Every Draw.

Tue, Nov 21, 2017 Arizona Pick 3 8-0-4
Wed, Nov 15, 2017 Arizona Pick 3 8-0-4
Mon, Oct 9, 2017 Arizona Pick 3 8-0-4
Thu, Aug 17, 2017 Arizona Pick 3 4-0-8
Thu, Sep 29, 2016 Arizona Pick 3 8-0-4
Thu, Jul 21, 2016 Arizona Pick 3 0-4-8
Thu, Jun 23, 2016 Arizona Pick 3 8-0-4
Sat, Apr 18, 2015 Arizona Pick 3 8-0-4

So Now They Are Temporarily Using A Ball Drawn Machine

And Yesterday 000 Hits? Makes You Wonder.....

Good thing 804 isn't an Arizona area code otherwise the lottery would have had to give out ALOT of money.

MADDOG10's avatarMADDOG10

I Think they need to replace the Lottery Commission in Arizona, instead of replacing the Lottery machine

with another computerized Machine. Holy Moly, doesn't this set off any Alarms? Do they really think they're going to gain

the trust back? Complete foolishness. 

LiveInGreenBay's avatarLiveInGreenBay

Quote: Originally posted by MADDOG10 on Nov 25, 2017

I Think they need to replace the Lottery Commission in Arizona, instead of replacing the Lottery machine

with another computerized Machine. Holy Moly, doesn't this set off any Alarms? Do they really think they're going to gain

the trust back? Complete foolishness. 

I don't get it.  Who wants mechanical balls when you have this?  Random vs predictable.  Come on man.

rca1952

I agree with voting with dollars! Now Washington state needs to do the same...They have been drawing duplicate numbers for a long time!

atoz

Missouri has the same problem too ....so many same numbers and we have told them but they absolutly assure us thats normal and nothing is wrong.

I call BS

MillionsWanted's avatarMillionsWanted

Quote: Originally posted by atoz on Nov 26, 2017

Missouri has the same problem too ....so many same numbers and we have told them but they absolutly assure us thats normal and nothing is wrong.

I call BS

Play the numbers then, instead of tipping off the lottery company.

JoeBigLotto's avatarJoeBigLotto

That is why they want computerised drawing they don't want 000 to hit that cost them money they want to be able to program the out come 000 is a number actually a good number because people loss with 000 everyday so winning one time is fair.

LiveInGreenBay's avatarLiveInGreenBay

Quote: Originally posted by JoeBigLotto on Nov 26, 2017

That is why they want computerised drawing they don't want 000 to hit that cost them money they want to be able to program the out come 000 is a number actually a good number because people loss with 000 everyday so winning one time is fair.

Are you saying they can control the numbers drawn?  That would he highly illegal and result in prison terms for those involved IMO.  I don't think thats the case.  They use RNG's because its cheaper and it does have flaws.  Use them to your advantage.

JoeBigLotto's avatarJoeBigLotto

Quote: Originally posted by LiveInGreenBay on Nov 26, 2017

Are you saying they can control the numbers drawn?  That would he highly illegal and result in prison terms for those involved IMO.  I don't think thats the case.  They use RNG's because its cheaper and it does have flaws.  Use them to your advantage.

I don't have 100 percent evidence they do but I do know it gives humans more ability to influence the number outcome and any such opportunity is not a good news to players. When I go to casino I play real roulette it's more safe and less program than say pulling slot machine. Anything computerised is not computerised naturally but difficult to hit like say 000 or 111 they don't like thoes alot lol

Hermanus104's avatarHermanus104

Quote: Originally posted by LiveInGreenBay on Nov 23, 2017

I like RNG computers.  The numbers aren't random.

They probably won't realize this until someone starts winning every drawing. That will get the point across to them.

Hermanus104's avatarHermanus104

Quote: Originally posted by JoeBigLotto on Nov 26, 2017

That is why they want computerised drawing they don't want 000 to hit that cost them money they want to be able to program the out come 000 is a number actually a good number because people loss with 000 everyday so winning one time is fair.

In Virginia, numbers sell out if too many people play. I attempted to play a triple once and I was told that the number sold out. 

California do pari-mutuel drawings. Therefore, if 000 hits, each winner gets less money. 

Those are two ways of resolving that issue.

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