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Is it legal...

Topic closed. 28 replies. Last post 11 years ago by pumpi76.

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justxploring's avatar - villiarna
Wandering Aimlessly
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Posted: May 13, 2006, 3:50 pm - IP Logged

guys is it legal to create a lotto better than the state lottery?I think is against the law to create a private lottery. What you think. I will apreciate the opinions.

It's illegal to hold any type of lottery or raffle unless you are a registered charity. I'm sure some people try to get away with it and get caught.  That's also why contests have to advertise "No Purchase Necessary" so everyone can have an equal chance of winning without spending money. Then it's not considered gambling.  Although it varies by state, even a poker game in your livingroom might be considered a crime. In Florida you can have a friendly game at the kitchen table, but the stakes must be low, like a penny-ante game.  Also, to make it a sociable event, no debt can be forcibly collected. In other words, you wouldn't be able to take your neighbor to small claims court if he owed you $100 from playing cards. If you told him you'd take his watch instead, you'd be committing a felony. That being said, since any pot higher than $10 is considered to be an "unfriendly" game, you'd be in violation anyway.

BTW, I thought Betslips was only offering a service.  So it's not the same as running a lottery.

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    Honduras
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    Posted: May 13, 2006, 4:22 pm - IP Logged

    but i field that the state by prohibiting any lottery game from competing with the state lottery is sort of like "imposing" its voluntary-tax on players/itscitizens...You can compare it with imposing religion in school...don't you think so...that kinds of make me mad...If state lottery is considered a "voluntary-tax" to the state, what would casinos be called?

    but even though it may not related, what makes me mad the most is the idea that casinos now have softwares that recognize your face (through the camera) and go through the database and find out if you are a current "cheater and experts"(i am not talking about slot cheaters but card games cheating like card counting)...i mean how far do you want to get....I feel people should have the right to defend themselves in a casino...


    pumpi76

      justxploring's avatar - villiarna
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      Posted: May 13, 2006, 4:49 pm - IP Logged

      but i field that the state by prohibiting any lottery game from competing with the state lottery is sort of like "imposing" its voluntary-tax on players/itscitizens...You can compare it with imposing religion in school...don't you think so...that kinds of make me mad...If state lottery is considered a "voluntary-tax" to the state, what would casinos be called?

      Voluntary-Tax?  That's sort of an oxymoron because the 2 words contradict themselves. A tax is something imposed as you say, so something that is imposed cannot be voluntary, right?

      I do agree with you about the casinos, but they are in the business to make money and, with all the high tech equipment available now, there must be a lot of people trying to cheat the house. I thought of this very thing when I watched the movie Rainman last month on tv (for probably the 10th time!) Dustin Hoffman's character was not actually cheating, was he? He was an idiosavant with a special talent for remembering numbers. I thought people could only be thrown out for cheating. If I ever developed a system, I would be very quiet about it. The key is to keep a low profile, but nowadays that's probably impossible. Maybe the Casino Managers moonlight for the NSA.

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        New Mexico
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        Posted: May 13, 2006, 5:08 pm - IP Logged

        guys is it legal to create a lotto better than the state lottery?I think is against the law to create a private lottery. What you think. I will apreciate the opinions.

        It's illegal to hold any type of lottery or raffle unless you are a registered charity. I'm sure some people try to get away with it and get caught.  That's also why contests have to advertise "No Purchase Necessary" so everyone can have an equal chance of winning without spending money. Then it's not considered gambling.  Although it varies by state, even a poker game in your livingroom might be considered a crime. In Florida you can have a friendly game at the kitchen table, but the stakes must be low, like a penny-ante game.  Also, to make it a sociable event, no debt can be forcibly collected. In other words, you wouldn't be able to take your neighbor to small claims court if he owed you $100 from playing cards. If you told him you'd take his watch instead, you'd be committing a felony. That being said, since any pot higher than $10 is considered to be an "unfriendly" game, you'd be in violation anyway.

        BTW, I thought Betslips was only offering a service.  So it's not the same as running a lottery.

        Charity organisations aren't actually 'exempt' in most states.  It's just they get the blind side of justice turned on them.... no prosecutor wants to go into a courtroom holding papers accusing the Baptist, Catholic, or whatnot, church of violating criminal statutes. 

        They can't ask jurors what religion they prefer, so there's a good chance one of them is dyed in the wool against finding for the prosecution.

        So they get exempt in a somewhat round-about way that accomplishes the same thing but doesn't leave any holes for the average Joe to sneak through.

        Jack

        Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

        It's about number behavior.

        Egos don't count.

         

        Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

         

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          New Mexico
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          Posted: May 13, 2006, 5:17 pm - IP Logged

          but i field that the state by prohibiting any lottery game from competing with the state lottery is sort of like "imposing" its voluntary-tax on players/itscitizens...You can compare it with imposing religion in school...don't you think so...that kinds of make me mad...If state lottery is considered a "voluntary-tax" to the state, what would casinos be called?

          but even though it may not related, what makes me mad the most is the idea that casinos now have softwares that recognize your face (through the camera) and go through the database and find out if you are a current "cheater and experts"(i am not talking about slot cheaters but card games cheating like card counting)...i mean how far do you want to get....I feel people should have the right to defend themselves in a casino...


          pumpi76

          Questions of 'fair', 'right and wrong', et al., don't much come into laws and law enforcement.  If the law's there it can be enforced, and it will be enforced if the prosecutor finds it to his advantage to enforce it.

          What individuals prefer, believe, or abhor just ain't part of the equation.  They can and will tax anything they see fit to tax, prohibit anything they want to prohibit, allow whatever suits their fancy to allow.

          We're not talkiing perfect world here.  There ain't one.  Lawmakers gotta make thousands of new laws every legislative and Congressional session.  Those laws gotta forbid things, punish things, tax things, demand things that aren't already being forbidden, punished, taxed and demanded.

          Otherwise  lawmakers  wouldn't feel they were doing their jobs.  And they'd be accused, come election time, of not voting to forbid, tax, punish and demand enough stuff.  You wouldn't feel protected.  You'd vote them out in favor of an opponent who'd forbid, tax, punish and demand more stuff.

          Jack

           

          Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

          It's about number behavior.

          Egos don't count.

           

          Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

           

            mylollipop's avatar - Trek STLOGO6.png

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            Posted: May 13, 2006, 5:36 pm - IP Logged

            guys is it legal to create a lotto better than the state lottery?I think is against the law to create a private lottery. What you think. I will apreciate the opinions.


            pumpi76

            "Private" lotteries are illegal for U.S. citizens to run or participate in.

            For that matter, so are private first class mail carriers. 

            Really?  What is the statute against private lotteries?

              mylollipop's avatar - Trek STLOGO6.png

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              Posted: May 13, 2006, 5:40 pm - IP Logged

              guys is it legal to create a lotto better than the state lottery?I think is against the law to create a private lottery. What you think. I will apreciate the opinions.


              pumpi76

              Lotteries are illegal by Federal law.  States to have a lottery have to amend their own constitutions or pass legislation to enable them to have a STATE lottery.  Any private lottery is illegal.

               

              The tribes evidently believe it's illegal for them to operate lotteries on tribal lands.  One tribe gave some thought to trying a tribal owned offshore operation similar to what some one suggested on the thread.  They concluded it would be a good path into a Federal correctional institution, even when done under the illusion of tribal sovereignty, which was the tunnel tribal casinos crawled through to come into being.

              Evidently tribal sovereignty is only a able to violate state criminal codes and certain Federal ones, but not others.  But definitely no Federal ones involving an on-line lottery operation headquartered in an off-shore environment.

              If the tribes don't think they can do it and get by with it, those of us who enjoy less privilege and ambiguity as to our rights needn't give the matter a lot of thought.

              Jack

               

              If the tribes don't think they can do it and get by with it, those of us who enjoy less privilege and ambiguity as to our rights needn't give the matter a lot of thought.

              Jack

              Thanks for making me laugh.Jester Laugh

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                New Mexico
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                Posted: May 13, 2006, 7:29 pm - IP Logged

                guys is it legal to create a lotto better than the state lottery?I think is against the law to create a private lottery. What you think. I will apreciate the opinions.


                pumpi76

                Lotteries are illegal by Federal law.  States to have a lottery have to amend their own constitutions or pass legislation to enable them to have a STATE lottery.  Any private lottery is illegal.

                 

                The tribes evidently believe it's illegal for them to operate lotteries on tribal lands.  One tribe gave some thought to trying a tribal owned offshore operation similar to what some one suggested on the thread.  They concluded it would be a good path into a Federal correctional institution, even when done under the illusion of tribal sovereignty, which was the tunnel tribal casinos crawled through to come into being.

                Evidently tribal sovereignty is only a able to violate state criminal codes and certain Federal ones, but not others.  But definitely no Federal ones involving an on-line lottery operation headquartered in an off-shore environment.

                If the tribes don't think they can do it and get by with it, those of us who enjoy less privilege and ambiguity as to our rights needn't give the matter a lot of thought.

                Jack

                 

                If the tribes don't think they can do it and get by with it, those of us who enjoy less privilege and ambiguity as to our rights needn't give the matter a lot of thought.

                Jack

                 

                Thanks for making me laugh.Jester Laugh

                You're most welcome.  Truth has a way of being hilarious.

                Jack

                Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

                It's about number behavior.

                Egos don't count.

                 

                Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

                 

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                  New Mexico
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                  Posted: May 13, 2006, 7:39 pm - IP Logged

                  guys is it legal to create a lotto better than the state lottery?I think is against the law to create a private lottery. What you think. I will apreciate the opinions.


                  pumpi76

                  "Private" lotteries are illegal for U.S. citizens to run or participate in.

                  For that matter, so are private first class mail carriers. 

                  Really?  What is the statute against private lotteries?

                  Search through the threads of the past..... they'll give it to you chapter and verse.  It's been beaten given the death of a thousand cuts here.

                  No point in anyone else having to go to the trouble to look it up when you're the one who wants to know (again).

                  Jack

                  Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

                  It's about number behavior.

                  Egos don't count.

                   

                  Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

                   

                    justxploring's avatar - villiarna
                    Wandering Aimlessly
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                    Posted: May 13, 2006, 7:44 pm - IP Logged

                    You're most welcome.  Truth has a way of being hilarious.

                    Jack

                     

                    Especially when we are talking about politics.

                    I don't know why, but your comment made me think of the last line in one of my favorite movies "The Untouchables" when Kevin Costner (as Elliot Ness) is asked by a reporter what he'll do if Prohibition is lifted and he replies "I think I'll go out and have a drink."


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                      Posted: May 13, 2006, 7:52 pm - IP Logged

                      It simply means, you cannot have private lotteries, but the church has their own little ticket to heaven. I chose the Qps.

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                        Honduras
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                        Posted: May 13, 2006, 7:56 pm - IP Logged

                        and also i will like to mention too. If you are going to create a private lotto, pick3/pick4 (perhaps making the range to be from 0-6, etc)to be better than the state for it to prosper you MUST make the pick4 box payout something like 20 or 25 dollars. Payouts for pick3 to be like 10 dollars...If you make the payouts for pick4 or pick3 to be more than what pick3/4 normally pays, your game, is my opinion, will not prosper...By making the pick4 box payout to be like 20 or 25 dollars you are limiting in the amount of how much people will received. (and since most people tend to play the less amount of money possible.. This also means that 20/25 people will have to loose (assuming the majority plays 1.00 which tends to be the case) to make one winner and the number of casualties is a few. But when they pay 200 dollars for the pick4 box payout this means, that 200 people will have to loose to "create" one winner. This is much harder and the number of casualties is very high...
                        Just some of the precautions and considerations you must make/take before starting a private lottery(pick3/4) to be better than the state with better payouts and better odds otherwise your game will not prosper...


                        pumpi76

                          JAP69's avatar - alas
                          South Carolina
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                          Posted: May 13, 2006, 8:01 pm - IP Logged

                           

                          I do not think it is to legal as they have been arresting bookies for years.

                          As far as gamblin goes they just raided a place down in Mount Pleasant S.C. where they had a table goin. They took the cash and booked the players.

                           

                          LOL

                          The Gov't is going to tell you what you can and can not do.

                          WHATT

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                            Honduras
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                            Posted: May 14, 2006, 12:50 am - IP Logged

                            if i was to start an online lottery, like a pick5, pick6 or pick7 i would make it where whatever the winner wins, is guaranteed for life. Here in Ga there is a game called: "win for life" where if you win, you win 1,000 a week for life. That's what i will do with an online lottery and a game like pick5/6/7..

                            pumpi76