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online poll....will H.R. 411 become law?

Topic closed. 58 replies. Last post 10 years ago by cps10.

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will H.R. 411 bill pass and become a law

no it won't pass [ 14 ]  [30.43%]
yes it will pass [ 28 ]  [60.87%]
not sure [ 4 ]  [8.70%]
Total Valid Votes [ 46 ]  
Discarded Votes [ 9 ]  
LOTTOMIKE's avatar - cash money.jpg
Tennessee
United States
Member #7853
October 15, 2004
11338 Posts
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Posted: May 17, 2006, 3:48 pm - IP Logged

Does anyone here see any loophole or "work-around" available to us that will allow us to play at Betslips or other online lottery sites at HR 4411 is passed?

 

Please share your ideas ..... if you have any in relation to this issue.

 

Thanks!

Good Luck,

John

i've been asking this same question and seems like no one knows.....

    Avatar
    Amarillo/Austin
    United States
    Member #1424
    April 25, 2003
    696 Posts
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    Posted: May 17, 2006, 4:45 pm - IP Logged

    There is a way to avoid this.  Set up a company outside the U.S., funnel your winnings there and channel them in through the back door.  Preferably a company situated in a European nation.  There are companies that will do this for you, for a considerable fee of course.  One I know of one Dallas company that offers "shelf companies" that can be purchased for about $2,500.  Nice way to store assets outside the country in case the land of the free and the home of the brave becomes less free and less brave.  Too steep?  That is the cost of Freedom!!

    Orangeman                                          Cool

      Avatar
      Poway CA (San Diego County)
      United States
      Member #3489
      January 25, 2004
      14120 Posts
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      Posted: May 17, 2006, 4:51 pm - IP Logged

      I think it will pass. Simple reason is that on line betting effects every state that has a lottery.

      On the other side , someone will figure out a way to get around it. Betslips will move it's operations off shore.

      Good example is the Cruise Ship Industry, very few of the Cruise ships that pull into our ports
      are registered in the USA.  Why, because with offshore registration they don't pay US taxes on all
      of the cruise tickets they sell. 

      Betslips is offshore.

       

        Avatar
        Amarillo/Austin
        United States
        Member #1424
        April 25, 2003
        696 Posts
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        Posted: May 17, 2006, 4:59 pm - IP Logged

            Those of you with the onions to actually do something about your financial future can contact Equity Development Group at equitydevelopers.com

             If you are one of the beggers who wants something free or a lottery system given to you, ignore this. 

            If you have the vision to actually do something and not just talk about it, give this site a visit.

        Orangeman                                                                                      Drum

          konane's avatar - wallace
          Atlanta, GA
          United States
          Member #1265
          March 13, 2003
          3333 Posts
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          Posted: May 17, 2006, 5:21 pm - IP Logged

          Given the identities of the forces in favor of passing, I'd say it's got a good shot at becoming law.

          Who wants it passed?

          • US casinos and those who profit from them.
          • Every legal lottery operation in the US.
          • Probably every Taxation and Revenue Department, Federal and State.

          Who is opposed to it?

          • People who gamble on the Internet.
          • People who don't gamble on the Internet, but are concerned about government regulation and oversight of Internet activities.

          Strikes me one side has the heavy artillery, which equates to having God on their side.

          Jack

          I Agree!

          I Agree!    I believe it will pass more as an enforcement to existing state laws, most of which prohibit gambling.

          However, I wish lottery tickets could be purchased from state lotteries on the interenet across state lines. This would help the industry through more revenues, also cut gas consumption, vehicle emissions for people who have to make a special trip to pick up tickets. For lottery players it would be probably a break even between extra ticket purchases and less fuel usage. Overall impact minimal but it would help.  

          Good luck to everyone!

            Tenaj's avatar - michellea
            Charlotte NC
            United States
            Member #17406
            June 18, 2005
            4053 Posts
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            Posted: May 17, 2006, 6:40 pm - IP Logged

            Does anyone here see any loophole or "work-around" available to us that will allow us to play at Betslips or other online lottery sites at HR 4411 is passed?

             

            Please share your ideas ..... if you have any in relation to this issue.

             

            Thanks!

            Good Luck,

            John

            i've been asking this same question and seems like no one knows.....

            CrazyThat's because nobody knows if the bill will get out of the House Committee.  It never has before.  Once it leaves the House Committee, then it goes to the House, then to the Senate and then to Congress.  It has to pass at each level.

            In my opinion I don't think it's going no where.  This bill is more difficult than the immigration bill.  I think the immigration bill will overshadow it and it will probably come back up in the next presidential election.

            takeemtothebank

              justxploring's avatar - villiarna
              Wandering Aimlessly
              United States
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              November 5, 2005
              4461 Posts
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              Posted: May 17, 2006, 7:46 pm - IP Logged

              "However, I wish lottery tickets could be purchased from state lotteries on the interenet across state lines." Konane

              There is no law governing this and some states do sell tickets by mail. Massachusetts definitely does. In fact, you can buy a season ticket by calling a toll free number and they will mail you the slips. There is one exception, which is the MegaMillions. They will sell you all state games, but not MM. I guess the combined states have agreed not to sell tickets by mail. Some states like Georgia have talked about selling tickets to out-of-state residents in the past, but I don't think the bill ever passed. I called them last year when there was an article in the news and was told that it was on hold but it would be okay if I had a legal address within the state, but they would not mail any tickets to Florida. Of course I'm not going to rent a place in Georgia just to buy lottery tickets! Right now I can't really afford to be buying too many tickets, especially for games with such high odds like PB & MM so it's fine with me, but I agree with you completely. I guess they are worried about credit card fraud, because how else would you buy tickets long distance? I've also read that, if states make it too easy for people to buy tickets, the retailers might lose income. Also there would be less incentive for them to sell tickets. It's true that people usually buy other things when they get lottery tickets, especially convenience stores. I just went into Sweetbay to get my Wed night Lotto tickets and ended up getting soup, yogurt and cereal and I usually don't shop at that store. It happens to me all the time. Who can buy one thing?

                LOTTOMIKE's avatar - cash money.jpg
                Tennessee
                United States
                Member #7853
                October 15, 2004
                11338 Posts
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                Posted: May 17, 2006, 9:08 pm - IP Logged

                Does anyone here see any loophole or "work-around" available to us that will allow us to play at Betslips or other online lottery sites at HR 4411 is passed?

                 

                Please share your ideas ..... if you have any in relation to this issue.

                 

                Thanks!

                Good Luck,

                John

                i've been asking this same question and seems like no one knows.....

                CrazyThat's because nobody knows if the bill will get out of the House Committee.  It never has before.  Once it leaves the House Committee, then it goes to the House, then to the Senate and then to Congress.  It has to pass at each level.

                In my opinion I don't think it's going no where.  This bill is more difficult than the immigration bill.  I think the immigration bill will overshadow it and it will probably come back up in the next presidential election.

                i thought i was going crazy at first.but once "adjusted" my eyes i see that our avatars are awfully similar tenaj!!!

                  LOTTOMIKE's avatar - cash money.jpg
                  Tennessee
                  United States
                  Member #7853
                  October 15, 2004
                  11338 Posts
                  Offline
                  Posted: May 17, 2006, 9:40 pm - IP Logged

                  Does anyone here see any loophole or "work-around" available to us that will allow us to play at Betslips or other online lottery sites at HR 4411 is passed?

                   

                  Please share your ideas ..... if you have any in relation to this issue.

                   

                  Thanks!

                  Good Luck,

                  John

                  i've been asking this same question and seems like no one knows.....

                  CrazyThat's because nobody knows if the bill will get out of the House Committee.  It never has before.  Once it leaves the House Committee, then it goes to the House, then to the Senate and then to Congress.  It has to pass at each level.

                  In my opinion I don't think it's going no where.  This bill is more difficult than the immigration bill.  I think the immigration bill will overshadow it and it will probably come back up in the next presidential election.

                  i think we will have to agree on this!!

                    LAVERNE MALONEY's avatar - smallgirl

                    United States
                    Member #1987
                    August 5, 2003
                    8968 Posts
                    Offline
                    Posted: May 17, 2006, 10:04 pm - IP Logged

                    Does anyone here see any loophole or "work-around" available to us that will allow us to play at Betslips or other online lottery sites at HR 4411 is passed?

                     

                    Please share your ideas ..... if you have any in relation to this issue.

                     

                    Thanks!

                    Good Luck,

                    John

                    This is taken from the FAQ's at Betslips. I feel that this statement may be a loophole in which to work around. If Betslips does not deem themselves as a gambling entity then perhaps they may not be included in said arena.

                    Q:Is your service considered gambling?
                    A:No, we are not in the gambling business.  We are akin to a courier service, which coordinates the handling of documents

                      Tenaj's avatar - michellea
                      Charlotte NC
                      United States
                      Member #17406
                      June 18, 2005
                      4053 Posts
                      Offline
                      Posted: May 17, 2006, 10:09 pm - IP Logged

                      Does anyone here see any loophole or "work-around" available to us that will allow us to play at Betslips or other online lottery sites at HR 4411 is passed?

                       

                      Please share your ideas ..... if you have any in relation to this issue.

                       

                      Thanks!

                      Good Luck,

                      John

                      i've been asking this same question and seems like no one knows.....

                      CrazyThat's because nobody knows if the bill will get out of the House Committee.  It never has before.  Once it leaves the House Committee, then it goes to the House, then to the Senate and then to Congress.  It has to pass at each level.

                      In my opinion I don't think it's going no where.  This bill is more difficult than the immigration bill.  I think the immigration bill will overshadow it and it will probably come back up in the next presidential election.

                      i thought i was going crazy at first.but once "adjusted" my eyes i see that our avatars are awfully similar tenaj!!!

                      i thought i was going crazy at first.but once "adjusted" my eyes i see that our avatars are awfully similar tenaj!!!

                       AvatarI agree LOTTOMIKE.   

                      takeemtothebank

                        LOTTOMIKE's avatar - cash money.jpg
                        Tennessee
                        United States
                        Member #7853
                        October 15, 2004
                        11338 Posts
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                        Posted: May 17, 2006, 11:31 pm - IP Logged

                        Three bills aiming to "prohibit" Internet gambling are now winding their way through Congress.

                        Internet gambling is already prohibited, at least in most forms. The companies that operate casino, sports betting, and poker websites are all based offshore, and most of their executives risk arrest if they ever step foot on American soil.

                        But web-based gambling is still a $12 billion industry. And so just as has happened every other time our government has attempted to ban vice (see illicit drugs, prostitution, and alcohol), efforts to ban online gambling have not only failed, they've created more problems than they've solved.

                        Because the government has banned the "bet taking" side of online gaming, gambling proprietors have simply set up shop in countries where gambling is legal. That keeps them out of reach of U.S. laws, but thanks to the Internet, still well within the reach of U.S. customers. That makes the people who play these sites highly susceptible to fraud, with no recourse in U.S. courts should they be bilked out of their money.

                        It also makes offshore gaming a prime target for organized crime and international terrorism, given that there's no U.S. government oversight.



                        For now, the "bet placing" side of Internet gambling is still legal (there's some debate on this point, but most experts agree that the government can't and won't arrest you for placing a bet from your computer). Which is why, despite that it's illegal, Americans still wager billions of dollars online.

                        That's where this trio of congressmen comes in. Rep. Bob Goodlatte of Virginia, Sen. John Kyl of Arizona, and Rep. Jim Leach of Iowa are all upset that there are some people out there who still see gambling as the moral transgression they do. So each has proposed a bill to go after the "bet placing" side of Internet gambling.

                        The bills are complicated, and what finally comes out of Congress is likely to be some sort of compromise between the three. But it's safe to say that none of the Congressmen are interested (yet) in arresting actual gamblers. However, that doesn't make what they're proposing any less disturbing. Instead, the bills aim to "deputize" companies like banks and Internet service providers (ISPs) to sniff out the illegal activity of their customers.

                        For example, Congress may end up asking ISPs to block out gaming sites from their customers, to ban websites on their server from linking to gaming sites, or to monitor the browsing habits of their customers.

                        Or they may force your bank to closely monitor where your money goes, and to block any transaction not only with an offshore gaming site, but with companies that facilitate transactions between banks and gaming sites.

                        The privacy implications of such measures are disturbing enough. But there's also something troubling about asking private companies to become de facto law enforcement agencies (a practice that started with aggressive money laundering laws).

                        Depending on which version of the various Internet gambling prohibition bills passes, these companies could also end up bearing staggering compliance costs. Which, of course, they'll then pass on to consumers.

                        These are important issues, and they deserve an honest debate. Unfortunately, the supporters of the three bills currently under consideration aren't interested in honest debate. All are pushing their bills as part of "lobbying reform," or the GOP's attempt to save face after many of its members have succumbed to their own moral failings.

                        Rep. Goodlatte and Sen. Kyle in particular have attempted to push their bills as "anti-Jack Abramoff" measures, referring to the now-disgraced lobbyist. I debated Rep. Goodlatte on his bill a couple of weeks ago, and was surprised when he spent most of his time talking not about the merits of his legislation, but about how passing his bill would send an important message to the American people about lobbying and corruption in Congress.

                        If you're wondering what slapping a ban on the millions of Americans who wager money online has to do with the Republican Party's moral shortcomings in Washington, well, so was I.

                        Apparently, the reasoning goes something like this: "Because of Jack Abramoff, Congress' previous attempts to ban Internet gambling failed. So Congress should ban Internet gambling to show that it's not under the influence of Jack Abramoff."

                        The odd thing is, contrary to what the anti-gambling folks would have you believe, Abramoff didn't want to legalize Internet gambling. He wanted to prohibit it--but in a way that carved out exceptions for his high-rolling clients. (Abramoff's clients were a company that helped state lotteries sell tickets online, and the Indian casinos.) The various bills now under consideration are remarkably similar to the bill Jack Abramoff wanted passed.

                        As I mentioned, the current gambling bills are complicated. But knowledgeable people on both sides of the debate generally agree that by the time all is said and done, none of these three bills will actually ban Internet gambling. They'll ban gambling for all but those gambling interests that have politically powerful allies in Congress. Which is exactly what Jack Abramoff wanted.

                        State lotteries, for example, will almost certainly be able to continue to sell tickets online (it's curious how addicted state governments have become to the money generated from those "evil" games of chance, isn't it?). Horse racing is also widely expected to escape any attempt at prohibiting online bets (the anti-gambling crusader Mr. Goodlatte, interestingly enough, has taken some $10,000 in campaign contributions from the National Thoroughbred Racing Association).

                        Online fantasy football will stay safe, too (previous attempts to ban this growing hobby have met with furious opposition).

                        The funny thing is, online gaming sites are begging to be legalized and regulated. A better approach would be to allow them to set up shop in the U.S., contribute to the U.S. economy, be regulated by U.S. markets, and be subject to U.S. courts.

                        Of course, that approach would require Congress to treat Americans as adults, and understand that we ought to be free to spend our own money as we please. Even in ways some morally crusading Congressmen happen to find distasteful.

                        Radley Balko is a policy analyst for the Cato Institute specializing in "nanny state" and consumer choice issues, including alcohol and tobacco control, drug prohibition, obesity, and civil liberties. Separately, he maintains the The Agitator weblog. The opinions expressed in his column for FOXNews.com are his own and are not to be associated with Cato unless otherwise indicated.




                          BaristaExpress's avatar - BaristaExpressMX zpsfb0d8b5d.png
                          Magnolia, Delaware
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                          July 20, 2005
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                          Posted: May 18, 2006, 12:03 am - IP Logged

                          As I have said in another post, it took them a while but they did the same with cigarettes not being allowed to be purchased with credit cards so I would not be surprised if it happens with lottery.

                          That statement just isn't true! I have friends that come down to Delaware from New Jersey all the time and purchase their 4 cartons of cigarettes with their credit card! I have also done this in my own state! Last year while on a trip in So. Carolina I purchased cartons of cigarettes with my credit card! Besides, I don't see any credit card company allowing any state in the union to tell them what their card holders can or can't buy with their credit cards! But to top it off, I have yet to see or hear of any federal regulation/ law being passed prohibiting the purchasing of cigarettes with a credit card!

                          Keep dreaming the impossible dream, it just may come true! Thumbs Up

                            LAVERNE MALONEY's avatar - smallgirl

                            United States
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                            August 5, 2003
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                            Posted: May 18, 2006, 12:18 am - IP Logged

                            BaristaExpress writes:  Besides, I don't see any credit card company allowing any state in the union to tell them what their card holders can or can't buy with their credit cards!

                            Oh, oh, oh BaristaExpress, some credit card companies will not let you use their credit card for gambling purposes.

                              justxploring's avatar - villiarna
                              Wandering Aimlessly
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                              Posted: May 18, 2006, 1:59 am - IP Logged

                               That statement just isn't true! I have friends that come down to Delaware from New Jersey all the time and purchase their 4 cartons of cigarettes with their credit card!  BaristaExpress 

                              Barista, I think Clairvoyance was referring to online sales. There have been many attempts to prohibit buying cigarettes online and now the credit card companies are getting tough. For example:

                              "Cigarette sales over the Internet ... are not only illegal; they are also a direct threat to public health, because they increase smoking rates, which leads to increases in lung cancer and other smoking-related illnesses," said New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer. "By working with all the major card companies, we will severely restrict the ability of the Internet retailers to make these illegal sales." 

                              Keep in mind that I am a radical anti-smoker and would be happy if nobody lit up outside of their own homes, since I start choking when someone smokes on the next block. LOL However, in fairness to people who want to feed their habit, it's none of my business and I think it's wrong to pass these stupid laws and support their right to purchase cigarettes from anywhere they want to without the government stepping in.  I wonder if stopping online purchases was really to protect the health of children or because people were avoiding taxes by buying them online?  I also read that European and Mexican companies were selling quite a lot of cartons to Americans at cheaper prices.