Welcome Guest
Log In | Register )
You last visited December 7, 2016, 10:55 pm
All times shown are
Eastern Time (GMT-5:00)

Cheating scratch-offs

Topic closed. 44 replies. Last post 9 years ago by Omniscient.

Page 3 of 3
PrintE-mailLink
duckman's avatar - ducklogodrake64x64
Jacksonville Florida
United States
Member #23018
October 6, 2005
918 Posts
Online
Posted: November 28, 2007, 8:21 pm - IP Logged

Odds of winning any prize overall are based on all the tickets of any given game, not each pack of tickets.

What's being posted by some in this thread is the same thing as people who learn that there should be a 2 or 12 every 36 rolls of the dice, so they actually stand at a game and wait for 35 rolls to show and then bet "snake eyes and box cars".

You may not see a 12 for 144 rolls, and then see 4 of them back to back. Over the long haul there will have been one every 36 rolls, but never in a predictable sequence. The same goes for scrathers.

The house is never going to offer anything this predictable, remember that.  

You are correct for flipping a coin (ie, independent events). Scratch off tickets are dependent in that all tickets (all possible scenerios and win/loss possibilities) have been determined in advance (they have been printed and are out there in the universe of tickets for that game).

When scratch tickets are printed, the algorithm used distributes them among books, packs, or groups. All ticket books, packs, or groups have a certain number of winners in them (put there on purpose by the printing algorithm). All books, packs, or groups of tickets also have a defined number of losers. It may vary by a few percentage points from book to book, but that will average out over the larger groupings.

That is why some states will advertise a "guaranteed" prize amount in each book or pack. Look at my link above for the Texas lottery...their scratch games will tell you what is "guaranteed" in each pack of tickets. They know what is "guaranteed" because they know the algorithm used to generate the tickets.

The randomness enters the picture on two counts:

1. how the tickets are distributed within the books or packs (randomly throughout the book or pack)

--and--

2. where the upper tier level prizes will fall (in which book or pack in a group will get these prizes)

    duckman's avatar - ducklogodrake64x64
    Jacksonville Florida
    United States
    Member #23018
    October 6, 2005
    918 Posts
    Online
    Posted: November 28, 2007, 8:31 pm - IP Logged

    "About your post though, if you buy 150 of those tickets you're talking about then you get to play 77 dollars more than you spent  with the good chance of winning over 77 dollars (Example: 85-90, or more)

    Then, once you go play those 77 dollars worth, you win lets say another 30 to 40, play that, win another 10 to 15 or more, play that, couple free tickets, play that, nothing.


    So you get to play over 100 dollars more than you spent (about 120-140 est.)

    Buy 150 tickets, scratch 275 <---
    But only 150dollars from your pocket.
    More fun.
    Better odds.
    Better cheat."

    --^ Wanted to quote that again.

    ?

    In the Texas lottery game mentioned above:

    You spend $150 and get back $77 (51%) - you are down $73

    You spend that $77 you just won and get back another 51% which is about $39 - you are now down $73 plus $38 = $111 total you are down.

    The returns dimish with each round you play. The more you play the more you lose.

    Of course, if you get lucky and win an upper tier prize, you will be better off, but you can't win the high level prizes consistently without spending a lot more money.

      tntea's avatar - Lottery-059.jpg

      United States
      Member #5344
      June 30, 2004
      23641 Posts
      Offline
      Posted: November 28, 2007, 8:51 pm - IP Logged

      If you buy the same ticket with a higher amount of money, you're more likely to get over $20-$100 in free play.

      Example: I buy 100 1 dollar monopoly tickets and get $61 in winnings, then play that $61 in winnings and win 30 in winnings, then play that 30 and win 35, then play that 35 and win 12, then that 12 and win 5, then that 5 n get a free ticket, that free ticket and get a loser.

      100 dollars came out of my pocket, but i played almost or over 200 dollars in ticket. As good as cheating.

      The more you play at one time the more you get in free play.

      If I buy 5 1 dollar tickets 1 day, then 1 1 dollar ticket the next, skip a day, then 5 more 1 dollar tickets, it isn't the same.

      You are type of scratcher the state wants... They want you to keep playing down to a loser ticket and leave.. YOu are leaving them with what you want.. Your $100..... it is that simple..

      So what they allowed you to win $61... They know you will give it back.. They know if they gave you completely nothing for your $100 then you would quit right.. They want you hooked... line and sinker... They want you to think you can keep on winning and winning.. They could care less if you think you are cheating...  They are the one who ended up with the $100..

           OLD/Vtrac   Lottery Bible         Double Warnings      Thumbs Up TN F34/F44

        Avatar
        Kentucky
        United States
        Member #32652
        February 14, 2006
        7311 Posts
        Offline
        Posted: November 28, 2007, 8:53 pm - IP Logged

        Odds of winning any prize overall are based on all the tickets of any given game, not each pack of tickets.

        What's being posted by some in this thread is the same thing as people who learn that there should be a 2 or 12 every 36 rolls of the dice, so they actually stand at a game and wait for 35 rolls to show and then bet "snake eyes and box cars".

        You may not see a 12 for 144 rolls, and then see 4 of them back to back. Over the long haul there will have been one every 36 rolls, but never in a predictable sequence. The same goes for scrathers.

        The house is never going to offer anything this predictable, remember that.  

        The odds of rolling a 2 or 12 is 35 to 1 and casinos pay 30 to 1 so Craps is a good example of how casinos can create a house edge based on payoffs for individual random events.  But scratch-off payouts are not based on random events and the house edge is already there when they print the tickets. They sell $10 million worth of tickets with a total payoff value of $6.5 million and make a 35% profit.

        The term cheating has been used but on many state lottery website they have charts showing the remaining monetary ticket value on all their scratch-off games. Buying $150 worth of scratch-offs, opening them at the store, turning in the winners, and opening more tickets is nothing new and certainly not cheating.

        Unless there is rule or a law that prevents a store clerk from buying scratch-offs, taking a chance their observations that the value of the remaining tickets in a roll exceeds the cost is correct, and buying them is not cheating either or giving that information to a customer.

        I always thought cheating was when somebody taped the halves of two different tickets together, tried to palm it off as a winner, and sued the lottery when they were caught.

          tntea's avatar - Lottery-059.jpg

          United States
          Member #5344
          June 30, 2004
          23641 Posts
          Offline
          Posted: November 28, 2007, 8:56 pm - IP Logged

          1) you will never scratch 20 2 dollar tickets with no winners. I've tested it, and you can too. The odds of that happening are over 1 in thousands. You're lying or misunderstood. I've never, ever, ever, EVER scratched even 6 2 dollar tickets and not had at least 1 winners. Sometimes more than 1.

          2) The chances of getting 10 winners in a row are even more unlikely. You are lying, or misunderstood, or an alcoholic and can't remember correctly.

          3) Each roll costs 300? that means there is only 15 tickets of the 20dollar tickets in a row. so false, agian.

          4) 10 dollar ticket, 15 losers in a row, close to impossible. No one here, NO ONE, is likely to go buy 15 10 dollar tickets and get no winner. I MEAN NO ONE. None. Not one single person here can go to their local gas station tomorrow morning and buy 15 2 dollar tickets, scratch all 15 tickets, and not get 1 single winner. Everyone will come back and the one with the worst luck will at least have got a free ticket, which is 10 dollars worth of tickets since its a 10 dollar ticket.

          5) If I go buy 200 dollars in 1 dollar tickets of 2 different kinds (100 each), I will win close to 100 dollars if not almost 200 dollars back or more. By the time I'm down, I'll have got over 100 dollars in free play from winners. I'll have played over 200 dollars in tickets, but only 100 came out of my pocket.

          i'll video tape it if you want to argue about it, or find someone else to test it and video tape it. i dont care where you live or what ticket it is.

          1) Yes you can buy 20 3 dollar tickets with no winner...  I see this monthly.. I work in a lottery store selling those losers...

          2)  Yes you can buy 10 winners in a row... Seen this done...

          3)  Yes  15  $20 tickets per row...  Ask to buy a book/row and you will see..... duh...

          4)...  I have sold 15 losers on the 10 row... believe it or not... 

          5)  If you only need free play for your $100 I am happy for you.  I had rather put my $100 on online games..  You are so kidding yourself.. you really have yourself convince that those things aren't possible..  I am just happy you can spend $100 on the games and get your kicks...

          I don't need a video of what goes on.. I live it every week.   I get paid to see it...

               OLD/Vtrac   Lottery Bible         Double Warnings      Thumbs Up TN F34/F44

            tntea's avatar - Lottery-059.jpg

            United States
            Member #5344
            June 30, 2004
            23641 Posts
            Offline
            Posted: November 28, 2007, 9:00 pm - IP Logged

            You will spend thousands and thousands before you can provide to me a video of 20 $2 tickets scratched in a row with no winner.

            My point is the same and still valid.

            If you buy 100 one-dollar tickets, you will play over 200 dollars in tickets or close and only spend 100 from your pocket.

            If you buy 50 one-dollar tickets, or 25 2 dollar tickets, you will play at least 50 dollars more than what came out of your pocket by the time you're done.

            and ect.

            In conclusion, buying 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 1 dollar tickets a day or 10 dollars in 2 dollar tickets or 2 in 5 dollar and so on is foolish.

            And it is cheating.

            You are spending 50 to 250 dollars and playing 100 to 400 dollars in tickets. More fun. More excitment. Better odds.

            :)

            I have sold books of the $1.. cost for book/row...  $300 ... number of tickets on row...  300...   average pay back  $187...

                 OLD/Vtrac   Lottery Bible         Double Warnings      Thumbs Up TN F34/F44

              tntea's avatar - Lottery-059.jpg

              United States
              Member #5344
              June 30, 2004
              23641 Posts
              Offline
              Posted: November 28, 2007, 9:02 pm - IP Logged

              how true is this? playing 20 dollars will then allow me to win, so I can double my winnings? make me a believer!

              no.. it isn't true..

              Buy $20 and luckily you will win $10

              Spend the $10 back and luckily you will win $5

              Spend $5 back and luckily you will win $2 or $3

              Spend that back and luckily you will win $1

              Then play it back on the way out the door... you will then be leaving your $20 behind... And the state thanks you dearly for it.. for you are the sucker they put those tickets out there for...

                   OLD/Vtrac   Lottery Bible         Double Warnings      Thumbs Up TN F34/F44

                tntea's avatar - Lottery-059.jpg

                United States
                Member #5344
                June 30, 2004
                23641 Posts
                Offline
                Posted: November 28, 2007, 9:08 pm - IP Logged

                What about the $1500 and $2500 and $3000 and $5000 and $10000 and $25,000 and $50,000 winners?

                How many of them?

                Can't you win up to half a million on the monopoly game? I know its over $100,000 and then another $50,000

                but they got $1000 to $15000 too.

                like $2000, $2500, stuff like that.

                When you scratch them you always see "$1500, $2000, $3000, $5000"

                So I'm assuming it is possible to win those amounts or otherwise they wouldnt come up when you scratch them, right?

                I'll look it up on the site.


                About your post though, if you buy 150 of those tickets you're talking about then you get to play 77 dollars more than you spent  with the good chance of winning over 77 dollars (Example: 85-90, or more)

                Then, once you go play those 77 dollars worth, you win lets say another 30 to 40, play that, win another 10 to 15 or more, play that, couple free tickets, play that, nothing.


                So you get to play over 100 dollars more than you spent (about 120-140 est.)

                Buy 150 tickets, scratch 275 <---
                But only 150dollars from your pocket.
                More fun.
                Better odds.
                Better cheat.

                You should go buy a whole pack and then play the winnings on the same ticket with the new or next book they put in.

                I once met with a 20 year old african american male who worked at a gas station, planned it out, he agreed to take his percent of the tickets, and we set the date.

                I walked in with a hoodie over my head away from the cameras with 2 big sweatshirts under the hoodie and 4 tshirts to make me look bigger. I raised my height with order eaters and wore a throw-away pair of shoes.

                I walked in, and said "hey man...uhh...lemme get that whole roll of the 10 dollar monopoly ticket and a whole roll of the other 20 dollar monopoly ticket and the roll of those 10 dollar tickets right there"

                As planned, he replied "both of them? you want both the whole rolls? you sure you can pay for it before I pull it out?"

                and as planned, i replied, "me and 6 friends been saving $100 a week each for awhile now"

                some more small talk and as he laid the tickets on the counter and typed in the number amount and told me my total, I put my hand on the register and pointed the tip of a bb gun at him  (the tip of it), and he went into a scared shock because i quietly, calmly, very relaxed but SERIOUSly said to him (this was all planned out between me and him, he was acting to keep his job) "i'mma put one in your chest if you walk outside in less than 10 seconds after i walk out the door bro" dead in his eyes.

                i ran out, he fell on the floor and grabbed his stomach and said "oh my god...s***...." and got up very quickly and grabbed the phone and called the police. (all part of the plan, we were acting for the cameras.)

                by the time they got there, filed the report, and put word out, i was in a different city in different clothes with thousands of dollars in tickets and cashing them in at different locations all that night and into the next morning.

                2 days after, he got 25 of each ticket for free (the two 10 dollars and the 20) that i dropped off at the location as promised.

                he kept his job, i never got caught, and i still have the newspaper clippings in a hidden spot outside of this house.

                I won thousands, didnt spent 1 dollar.

                lol. just kidding. i was going to though.

                don't go getting no bright ideas anyone. they have satellites in the sky that they use to give the FBI information, then when they catch you, they make up other excuses of how they got you IF you ask. Sometimes it is a witness (one of their own), sometimes its other methods.

                you will get caught. they can see you walk out, get into the car, drive, where you drive too, and even your license plate.

                just joking again, i don't know.

                haha.

                Take your meds please...

                     OLD/Vtrac   Lottery Bible         Double Warnings      Thumbs Up TN F34/F44

                  time*treat's avatar - radar

                  United States
                  Member #13130
                  March 30, 2005
                  2171 Posts
                  Offline
                  Posted: November 28, 2007, 9:13 pm - IP Logged

                  1) Yes you can buy 20 3 dollar tickets with no winner...  I see this monthly.. I work in a lottery store selling those losers...

                  2)  Yes you can buy 10 winners in a row... Seen this done...

                  3)  Yes  15  $20 tickets per row...  Ask to buy a book/row and you will see..... duh...

                  4)...  I have sold 15 losers on the 10 row... believe it or not... 

                  5)  If you only need free play for your $100 I am happy for you.  I had rather put my $100 on online games..  You are so kidding yourself.. you really have yourself convince that those things aren't possible..  I am just happy you can spend $100 on the games and get your kicks...

                  I don't need a video of what goes on.. I live it every week.   I get paid to see it...

                  "I work in a lottery store selling those losers..."

                  "selling those losers" (tickets) or "selling to those losers"? (players) Wink

                  People like to use words like "cheat", "secret", "free" and of course "GUARAN-TEED" as that gets more attention to their posts than "bad math", "spurious whim" & "fantasy" would.

                  In neo-conned Amerika, bank robs you.
                  Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be the name of a convenience store, not a govnoment agency.

                    tntea's avatar - Lottery-059.jpg

                    United States
                    Member #5344
                    June 30, 2004
                    23641 Posts
                    Offline
                    Posted: November 28, 2007, 9:30 pm - IP Logged

                    "I work in a lottery store selling those losers..."

                    "selling those losers" (tickets) or "selling to those losers"? (players) Wink

                    People like to use words like "cheat", "secret", "free" and of course "GUARAN-TEED" as that gets more attention to their posts than "bad math", "spurious whim" & "fantasy" would.

                    LOL .. you got that right...

                    I do worry about this individual...   Let's take a moment or so and say a silent prayer for him... Seriously

                         OLD/Vtrac   Lottery Bible         Double Warnings      Thumbs Up TN F34/F44

                      Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
                      Zeta Reticuli Star System
                      United States
                      Member #30470
                      January 17, 2006
                      10351 Posts
                      Offline
                      Posted: November 29, 2007, 1:22 am - IP Logged

                      If you're right, provide me a video of you scratching over 20 1 dollar monopoly tickets with no winners, live on camera.


                      I believe, there COULD be a 1 out of 10 chance to scratch 10 in a row with no winner if you buy a whole book, i believe that.

                      but never 20 losing tickets in a row in the same book.

                      they don't print them like that.

                      i don't believe it.

                      and I won't until you prove it to me with a video of 20 tickets in a row, all losers, same book, same ticket.


                      you will spend thousands before you can provide me with the video :|

                      mech

                      You really have a 'tude, especially for someone from a state that doesn't even have lotto.

                      Sorry, no one here is here to provide you videos.

                      Did I say 20 tickets? I said the overall odds are for all of those tickets printed, not pack by pack. If you think it means per pack you're a perfect player for the lotto.  

                      Better yet, you prove to us you're right.

                      Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

                      Lep

                      There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

                        Badger's avatar - adu50016 NorthAmericanBadger.jpg
                        Wisconsin
                        United States
                        Member #1303
                        March 27, 2003
                        1508 Posts
                        Offline
                        Posted: November 29, 2007, 8:27 am - IP Logged

                        "I work in a lottery store selling those losers..."

                        "selling those losers" (tickets) or "selling to those losers"? (players) Wink

                        People like to use words like "cheat", "secret", "free" and of course "GUARAN-TEED" as that gets more attention to their posts than "bad math", "spurious whim" & "fantasy" would.

                        People also like to use the word "winning" when they have actually lost money.  The scheme that mech is proposing guarantees he will walk out the door of the retailer having lost his money.  It doesn't matter how many tickets he has scratched. In the end, he loses what he originally spent.

                        That isn't winning.

                        ============

                        How can you tell if a politician is lying?

                        Answer: His lips are moving.

                          Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
                          Zeta Reticuli Star System
                          United States
                          Member #30470
                          January 17, 2006
                          10351 Posts
                          Offline
                          Posted: November 29, 2007, 10:04 am - IP Logged

                          People also like to use the word "winning" when they have actually lost money.  The scheme that mech is proposing guarantees he will walk out the door of the retailer having lost his money.  It doesn't matter how many tickets he has scratched. In the end, he loses what he originally spent.

                          That isn't winning.

                          How true, Badger. Look at vido poker, people put 5 quarters in a machine, get a piar of Jacks, which pays- five quarters- and sit there going "I won!", when all they did is break even. 

                          Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

                          Lep

                          There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

                            Avatar
                            New Member
                            Beverly Hills
                            United States
                            Member #57237
                            December 23, 2007
                            1 Posts
                            Offline
                            Posted: December 23, 2007, 10:55 pm - IP Logged

                             The average pay back on a roll is $187.... Sad but true.   Where does the $500 come in...

                             

                            I think the odds are actually determined by the entire number of tickets completely, not on a particular roll of tickets... I've played entire rolls for $ 300 and often only won $ 150 to $ 190... However, there have been times that I've played an entire roll for $ 300 and ended up scratching $ 700 in winnings... This is what leads me to believe, that the "odds" are based on complete # of tickets for the game, not the roll... I firmly believe, that it's possible to have a $ 500 winner and a jackpot winner of $ 50,000 on the SAME roll of tickets...

                            Now, the REAL question... HOW do you clean up "scratch-off dust"... That stuff is a mess...

                            Merry Christmas and keep on playing... Today, could be your day ! 

                              Omniscient's avatar - Lottery-017.jpg
                              Florida
                              United States
                              Member #46570
                              September 14, 2006
                              558 Posts
                              Offline
                              Posted: January 10, 2008, 11:59 am - IP Logged

                              Each scratch off game is already determined. Why would you want to play a game thats pre-determined ?!?! It's the very reason why we all want lotto games to have lotto balls instead of computerized drawings. Avoid the scratch offs..it's a losing cause... if your lucky enough to get a win, take the money and run! Stick with the lotto 3,4,5 and 6 number games that havent been pre-determined yet. Just my 2 cents .. Good Luck

                              Omniscient

                               See full size image                                               

                               Don't Play more, Play Smarter!