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# How to Use The Magic Square of Sun/Moon for the Pick 5...

Topic closed. 34 replies. Last post 9 years ago by Kola.

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Blundering Time Traveler

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 Posted: December 9, 2007, 2:06 pm - IP Logged

I like your Saturn Box Kola, when I add & subtract 1 to each set of numbers I get 6 box hits in the last 7 draws. This is the kind of nonsense I understand. Thanks for the idea.

Your're welcome Paint1. I should say thank YOU...You gave me good afternoon chuckle. Just to be clear though, I hope you know that those boxes or rather squares are not mine. Just click on the wikipedia link in my first post on this thread, and find out more about them. Thanks again!

Blundering Time Traveler

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 Posted: December 9, 2007, 3:24 pm - IP Logged

Kola

I've seen the 3 X 3 square touted for the pick 3, with the comment "notice how many pick 3s add to 15", but in my state, anyway, that just isn't the case.

Also, for a pick 5 game, wouldn't you want to use a 5 X 5 and not a 6 X 6?

Hello Coin Toss.

Yes, that comment you've seen about  "adding to 15" is quite limiting if just looked at from  that point of view. For the 3 X 3 square, you can manipulate it in different ways. You just have to play with it...Yes each line adds to 15, and the total is 45, but there is another total as well...1665

Saturn
492
357
816

Add 492 + 357 + 816 = 1665(666).

Add 492 + 357 + 816 = 1665(666).

Add 492 + 357 + 816 = 1665(666). As an aside, remember that  each Pick 3 number has its corresponding root sum in each box of that Saturn Square as well...Just things to think about...

Also pertaining to the Pick 5 game. Yes it would seem counterintuitive to use the 6 X 6 Square, instead of the 5 X 5 Mars Square.

Mars=65
11247203
41225816
17513219
101811422
23619215
Sun=111
632334351
7112728830
191416152324
182022211713
25291092612
365334231

I gravitated to the Sun Square for several reasons. One reason is that the highest number in the box is 36 which better approximates my states's particular Pick 5 game of 1 - 39. One can still use the Mars Square too or the Saturn Square and even the other squares as well. I would say it all depends on the "How". Taken at face value, some squares may seemingly lend themselves to particular games, but not really. It depends how you are manipulating the squares. For instance with the Saturn Square when I added 492 + 357 + 816 = 1665,  could I do that with the Sun Square? I'd say yes, but you would have to manipulate and play around with it.

Blundering Time Traveler

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 Posted: December 9, 2007, 4:07 pm - IP Logged

Hello Kola,

Without sounding patronizing, you should be commended to go where no lottery/keno ping ball would be commonly predicted to go !

When in experimentation field of imaginative thought, it radically differs from the standard clinical lab world where everything proceeds according to standard deviations, etc., and players continually lose to negative math expectations at a alarming rate ..... There is always an ongoing assult against imagination by the conventional forces of sobriety and supporters of the status quo gaming industries.

A Quick and perhaps unitiated question relative the ever elusive question of timing:

Would the sun magic square numbers be applicable when the sun is dominant or your above saturn pick 3 above example workable when saturn is....? Thanks in advance-

If you have never heard of Jack Gillen predictions, you will find his out of the box  but validated results for all fields of speculation nothing short of amazing, most adaptable and encoraging.

I have had some humble but modest experimental success with Pythagorean Theory of harmonics & numbers.

Keep hitting the good vibes, there are some tuning forks who are in resonance.

Although preceptions are real they are not reality, worth thinking about it folks.

And FYI:

A true spectacular and ubelivable testament to inspired imaginative genius !

Incredible Hidden Underground temples!

This is worth seeing and reading!

"http://tinyurl.com/2ntufz"

Kola, et al - Enjoy what could be considered an 8th World Wonder in our own time!

EddessaKnight

Hi EddessaKnight.

Thanks for your sentiments and for tuning in. I'm grateful that you do indeed resonate with the material presented.

As far as the timing issue  is concerned....Well....HAHAHA....NOW, you are putting me on the spot. All in all, I do admire and have admired your tenacity, drive and curiosity that inspires you to seek non-linear solutions. But to answer your question - a big YES. I'll just say, I've looked at those issues, and I'm still exploring.

And like you, I've also been down the Pythagorean road and drive on it frequently. Invaluable. I long ago posted that it was a 'must read'...at least to stimulate thought.

Thanks for the Jack Gillen memo. I'll certainly look into it. And as far the Underground Temple link is concerned...speechless. I'm mean what does one say? Beautiful, awe-inspiring, glorious, amazing...words are oftentimes inadequate...

Blundering Time Traveler

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 Posted: December 9, 2007, 4:27 pm - IP Logged

Kola

I've seen the 3 X 3 square touted for the pick 3, with the comment "notice how many pick 3s add to 15", but in my state, anyway, that just isn't the case.

Also, for a pick 5 game, wouldn't you want to use a 5 X 5 and not a 6 X 6?

One more thing. I did mention that the square you use is partially dependent on HOW you manipulate it for the Pick 5. You may want to analyze your state's particular Pick 5 number pool. It may be a factor in which square you choose and how you manipulate the square. All the Magic Squares may not be amendable to your Pick 5 game if each Square is manipulated in the same exact ways.

LAS VEGAS
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November 22, 2006
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 Posted: December 9, 2007, 7:07 pm - IP Logged

Hello Kola,

Again I appreciate your prompt, courteous and always informative replies-

For personal clearfication purposes, are playing squares with accompanying dominant sun, planet or moon phases a viable contributing factor ???

Kaballah numerology can also uncover time less/universal expressions and are a big blast from the past

I am confident that you will find the alive & kicking Jack Gillen predictions, nothing short of amazing !

For all unorthodox and  intrepid investigators: we run down many dark alleys in hope of discovering ONE that is not a dead end!

Best Wishes for a continued fun journey >>>>

EddessaKnight

Blundering Time Traveler

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 Posted: December 9, 2007, 9:14 pm - IP Logged

Hello Kola,

Again I appreciate your prompt, courteous and always informative replies-

For personal clearfication purposes, are playing squares with accompanying dominant sun, planet or moon phases a viable contributing factor ???

Kaballah numerology can also uncover time less/universal expressions and are a big blast from the past

I am confident that you will find the alive & kicking Jack Gillen predictions, nothing short of amazing !

For all unorthodox and  intrepid investigators: we run down many dark alleys in hope of discovering ONE that is not a dead end!

Best Wishes for a continued fun journey >>>>

EddessaKnight

Hello EdessaKnight.

To be candid, I can only imagine that they are viable. I'm not too confident in posting any of my notes about that right now, because they would be an incoherent mess. Too incoherent. All that I've been willing to post on the Squares, are some of my general notes that I felt confident giving and would hopefully makes the squares slightly more interesting and accessible to the masses and especially to the uninitiated. I have another system that I'm trying to somewhat perfect that takes up most of my time. So the squares research is slow going, but I'm okay with that. I like things to unfold unhurried. I do my best thinking when I'm just walking and musing about "this, that or another" and  when I'm assimilating, contextualizing, and collating while sleeping.

Happy Explorations to you and all...

Florida
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 Posted: December 10, 2007, 3:52 pm - IP Logged

Hello EddessaKnight,

You are not putting me on the spot at all...

As far as the Pick 5 is concerned and its pertinence to the Magic Square of the Sun, I haven't really haven't begun to work on it in earnest. I've observed and made alot of notes, and I know the way I want to proceed , but I haven't gotten down to it in a rigorous way. Partly because when I started playing the lottery 2 years, I was always focused on the seemingly easiest game - the Pick 3, which was and is a great training ground and has taught me so much.  From my newbie observation, the Pick 4 and 5 will be much much easier to handle. I have found they all will follow the same "rules" with just a little tweaking for each respective game. I will underline though, that for the Pick 5, one observe the actual draw, and pay a attention to the exact order of the drawn balls rather than the ascending  way its printed in the next's days results.

-

I've been exploring using the Magic Square of Saturn for the Pick 3.

And to answer your direct question, yes, if applied in certain ways,  I do feel the squares work. No "hard and fast rules" just yet, because I'm of course limited by knowledge I may not have. So I have to sit and play with it a little more, and let it marinate to see what pops up. I trust those "rules" will come. I just have to be patient and keep my eyes way open...

Also...as of yet, I've not been dealing with "time of draw" that much at least in a concrete way. Conceptually - yes, concretely - only slightly. But rather I've been dealing with the number of days that have passed in our 365 day year. After I've played with this a little more, then I'll hone down to more specifics, and merge my ideas about time with the day of the year,  to get a better reading of what's going to come out for the next day's draw.

Thanks for those great NY picks...Way, way, way before my time as well, but they are still poetically beautiful.

I backtested the Saturn chart in FLorida going back 104 drawings. Here are the results:

If you played \$8 a day covering your vertical,horizontal and diagonals for this Saturn chart, you would lose \$832 playing for a boxed win.

In 104 draws, you would only have 3 wins for a total of \$240 (\$80 each hit for boxed)

832 - 240 = \$592 loss during this time frame

The way I see it, it's a losing chart in FL. I dont know how good it is in other states. More testing would have to be done.

Don't Play more, Play Smarter!

Blundering Time Traveler

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 Posted: December 10, 2007, 8:55 pm - IP Logged

I backtested the Saturn chart in FLorida going back 104 drawings. Here are the results:

If you played \$8 a day covering your vertical,horizontal and diagonals for this Saturn chart, you would lose \$832 playing for a boxed win.

In 104 draws, you would only have 3 wins for a total of \$240 (\$80 each hit for boxed)

832 - 240 = \$592 loss during this time frame

The way I see it, it's a losing chart in FL. I dont know how good it is in other states. More testing would have to be done.

Thanks Omniscient for the heads up about using the Saturn Square chart in Florida. I agree with you, and as a matter of fact if you just play the numbers the way they are listed horizontally, vertically, and diagonally on the square chart, you will eventually go broke. I hope no one ever plays those numbers as they are. Its is certainly a losing chart when played that way. You don't have to test any more states, because it will be a bust.

I've stressed in this thread that if one wants to use any of the Planets Magic Squares, one could  try to creatively manipulate them in different ways. For instance one could  use the simple tools of addition, subtraction, division, multiplication or try using more interesting tools...Just explore...

Thanks again Omniscient

Florida
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 Posted: December 11, 2007, 10:28 am - IP Logged

No problem Kola. I was just curious how the results would work out in FL. Now I know. The chart did have 2 out of 3 on many occasions, and the last # you wouldnt know if you needed to add or subtract and on which number. Always interesting to see how new systems fare up to actual, past winning numbers to validate a system or chart.

Don't Play more, Play Smarter!

Blundering Time Traveler

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 Posted: December 11, 2007, 1:54 pm - IP Logged

No problem Kola. I was just curious how the results would work out in FL. Now I know. The chart did have 2 out of 3 on many occasions, and the last # you wouldnt know if you needed to add or subtract and on which number. Always interesting to see how new systems fare up to actual, past winning numbers to validate a system or chart.

Hi Omniscient.

I don't know if you are aware...but just to be sure...that chart is not mine. Its never really been called a chart. Its centuries old,  they're are seven of them, and they are actually called the Magic Squares of the Planets or just The Magic Squares.  It has been speculated that they might've been used in astrology, astronomy, divination, and other occult and hard sciences. No one knows, and if someone does, she/he is not telling.  So in essence, as it applies to the lottery, there is no apparent system to glean from them.  This thread doesn't tout a specific new system per se , but rather with a few spare examples, humbly encourage and inspire the interested few to merely look at the squares a little differently than usual...Many have spent a fruitless time trying to see if there was more to the squares than just the fact that the diagonal, vertical and horizontal lines all add up to the same number...Hopefully that can change, and if a bit of that divination lore bears a smidgeon of truth, we can maybe flirt with using them for the lottery. I posted a  paltry ditty in the beginning of this thread about my logic in applying them to the games.

Florida
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 Posted: December 11, 2007, 4:46 pm - IP Logged

Hi Omniscient.

I don't know if you are aware...but just to be sure...that chart is not mine. Its never really been called a chart. Its centuries old,  they're are seven of them, and they are actually called the Magic Squares of the Planets or just The Magic Squares.  It has been speculated that they might've been used in astrology, astronomy, divination, and other occult and hard sciences. No one knows, and if someone does, she/he is not telling.  So in essence, as it applies to the lottery, there is no apparent system to glean from them.  This thread doesn't tout a specific new system per se , but rather with a few spare examples, humbly encourage and inspire the interested few to merely look at the squares a little differently than usual...Many have spent a fruitless time trying to see if there was more to the squares than just the fact that the diagonal, vertical and horizontal lines all add up to the same number...Hopefully that can change, and if a bit of that divination lore bears a smidgeon of truth, we can maybe flirt with using them for the lottery. I posted a  paltry ditty in the beginning of this thread about my logic in applying them to the games.

Thanks Kola, I will check it out right now actually.

(putting on my pointy dunce thinking cap to search for the missing link) LOL

Omniscient

I wonder if there is a way to get a zero on the magic square ... no mention of that anywhere. Interesting read though...

Don't Play more, Play Smarter!

Blundering Time Traveler

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 Posted: December 11, 2007, 10:26 pm - IP Logged

Thanks Kola, I will check it out right now actually.

(putting on my pointy dunce thinking cap to search for the missing link) LOL

Omniscient

I wonder if there is a way to get a zero on the magic square ... no mention of that anywhere. Interesting read though...

Hello Omniscient.

As far as zero is concerned...Curious isn't it?. Its not on any of the squares. Hmm....What does that mean? Hopefully your exporations will yield something interesting.

Blundering Time Traveler

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 Posted: December 11, 2007, 11:16 pm - IP Logged

Hello Omniscient.

As far as zero is concerned...Curious isn't it?. Its not on any of the squares. Hmm....What does that mean? Hopefully your exporations will yield something interesting.

But in the meantime, lets explore the dynamism of these squares a little more and even try to get your zero in the process:

The Saturn Magic Square is:

4 9 2

3 5 7

8 1 6

If you add the 3 lines you get 1665

-

Now Lets do a wrap up and a wrap down of each line of the Saturn Square by adding 111.

This is the wrap up:

6 0 3

4 6 8

9 2 7

If you add the 3 lines you get 1998

-

This is the wrap down:

3 8 1

2 4 6

7 0 5

If you add the 3 lines you get 1332

-

Yes the 0 did appear, but 2 numbers were "lost" in the process:

The 1 and the 9.  Its been posted many times that zero = 1 and equals 9. Its true...

Also with the Saturn Square  at the top be aware that the mirror of 5 = 0.

So 0 = 1, 5, and 9.

-

Remember we added all the lines of squares and we got

1332 + 1665 + 1998 = 4995

Hmm...

If you were to add all the straights for the Pick 3 you would get 499500, which equals 4995 X 100 = 499500.

Good luck!

Blundering Time Traveler

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 Posted: December 16, 2007, 7:01 pm - IP Logged

Thanks Omniscient for the heads up about using the Saturn Square chart in Florida. I agree with you, and as a matter of fact if you just play the numbers the way they are listed horizontally, vertically, and diagonally on the square chart, you will eventually go broke. I hope no one ever plays those numbers as they are. Its is certainly a losing chart when played that way. You don't have to test any more states, because it will be a bust.

I've stressed in this thread that if one wants to use any of the Planets Magic Squares, one could  try to creatively manipulate them in different ways. For instance one could  use the simple tools of addition, subtraction, division, multiplication or try using more interesting tools...Just explore...

Thanks again Omniscient

This will be my last and probably most important post for this particular thread concerning the Magic Squares and how to possibly use them.

In the blue highlight above,  I mentioned possible avenues of exploration in using the Squares. Well, there are two more that are part and parcel of Magic Square usage.

They are:

Rotation and Reflection.

1. you can rotate the square or the lines in the square by degrees - at least by 90, 180, 270, and 360.

2. You can reflect each line in the square. So if we reflect, as in mirror reflection, the middle horizontal line of 357 in the Magic Square of Saturn we would get 753.

By rotating and reflecting the square, there are a total of eight Saturn Squares that can be created with each line adding up to a constant of 15, and each square totaling 45.

Well, that's it. Its quite straightforward.

Again along with other numerous websites about magic squares, here's the wikipedia link to them

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_square

Happy Explorations...

Florida
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 Posted: December 17, 2007, 11:22 am - IP Logged

But in the meantime, lets explore the dynamism of these squares a little more and even try to get your zero in the process:

The Saturn Magic Square is:

4 9 2

3 5 7

8 1 6

If you add the 3 lines you get 1665

-

Now Lets do a wrap up and a wrap down of each line of the Saturn Square by adding 111.

This is the wrap up:

6 0 3

4 6 8

9 2 7

If you add the 3 lines you get 1998

-

This is the wrap down:

3 8 1

2 4 6

7 0 5

If you add the 3 lines you get 1332

-

Yes the 0 did appear, but 2 numbers were "lost" in the process:

The 1 and the 9.  Its been posted many times that zero = 1 and equals 9. Its true...

Also with the Saturn Square  at the top be aware that the mirror of 5 = 0.

So 0 = 1, 5, and 9.

-

Remember we added all the lines of squares and we got

1332 + 1665 + 1998 = 4995

Hmm...

If you were to add all the straights for the Pick 3 you would get 499500, which equals 4995 X 100 = 499500.

Good luck!

Hi Kola,

How/Why did you come with 111 for your wrap up and downs ? Just curious.

I did some more testing on that Saturn chart to see if there was a link between when certain parts of the chart would appear to have systematic hits and if those hits reflected on certain days and how long between hits. No steady and conclusive results were found unfortunately. Seeing that this is a 'Saturn' chart, maybe it needs to be used on certain astrological dates. Just throwing ideas out for now... There is another test I need to do as I'm curious as to one thing that caught my attention. Maybe I'm reading into it to far, but I will let you know when test is completed and if results are favorable.

Don't Play more, Play Smarter!

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